Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[PennytoShaq]

Payton was not hurt for almost 80 games of the season. Thats simply not true.

Tons of people put context to his performance last year. There were plenty of threads about it and detailed discussions all season. Its been stated multiple times already.

Dogpiling him because he was playing poorly does not equate to putting his performance in context. It’s just using a bad stretch to justify previous criticisms. And he clearly wasn’t moving right from what I saw.

Ok, you are moving it around here. Before it was that he was only bad during the last half of the season. Now it’s that he was hurt the majority of the season and his movement wasn’t right.

Again - he was injured by game 2. So you are now saying he was never moving right after. That means that a “bad stretch” is actually the entire season and not just the second half like you were saying before.

Poor effort, Poor shooting. Poor defense. He’s gone now. Time to let go.

[sportsrock37]

I think folks will be surprised by how little BIG actually sees the court together this season.

Yep, I can already see right now what the major problem that people are going to have with Clifford this year and thats going to be with the number of minutes that Bamba gets in general in especially with BIG. Its exactly why many of us didn't like the hire. Its similar to AG's first year with Vogel where for half the season Jeff green was averaging 5-10 more minutes than AG and would play every single meaningful minute in the 4th.

It's not necessarily about getting Bamba all these extra minutes year one or starting him, but with Clifford and Vuc here those meaningful minutes we want him to log next to AG and Isaac are going to be few and far between in my opinion and its going to frustrate the fanbase.

I don’t think that will be the case. The lineup has too much defensive potential and Clifford loves to play a defense that can switch and smother teams. I think he will want to rotate Grant and Bamba in fairly early. Why? I am reading what he is saying about wanting to get Bamba minutes, plus how impressed he is with Grants defense.

I dont see DJ suddenly being a great defender, and you are talking about a guy who played MCG over a first round pick because MCG can defend and Monk really struggled at it.

A lot of this is on Bamba. If he comes in and makes an impact in small minutes the first 10-15 games, I think his role expands the more he gets used to the grind. If he struggles, than yeah - we may not see the BIG lineup as much as we want, but the point is that a lot of this stuff is on the players executing and also staying healthy.

I completely agree. Gotta give Bamba what he can handle. Worst case scenario would be him having a year similar to Isaac last year because he couldn't handle the grind and couldn't stay healthy. I'd rather Bamba play 70 games with 15-20 mpg then 30 games at 30 mpg. I think if we stagger lineups while you won't see a ton of BIG, I think Isaac will split his PT with both the first and 2nd units. This will allow him to get experience guarding the top guy on the opposing team while also giving him a little larger offensive role at times with the 2nd unit. You see if Isaac and AG can coexist and then see the future of Isaac and Bamba. AG probably needs to play most of his minutes with a guy like Vuc to open up more of his offense to get comfortable as the #1 option. I think Grant gets more mins then most people think. I think he could have a really solid year.

[VFX]

Yep, I can already see right now what the major problem that people are going to have with Clifford this year and thats going to be with the number of minutes that Bamba gets in general in especially with BIG. Its exactly why many of us didn't like the hire. Its similar to AG's first year with Vogel where for half the season Jeff green was averaging 5-10 more minutes than AG and would play every single meaningful minute in the 4th.

It's not necessarily about getting Bamba all these extra minutes year one or starting him, but with Clifford and Vuc here those meaningful minutes we want him to log next to AG and Isaac are going to be few and far between in my opinion and its going to frustrate the fanbase.

Yep. That will be the biggest area of concern for most fans while Vuc is still on the team. I get easing Bamba into minutes as the season progresses, but he should be starting by he end of the season.

I’m sure fans are tired of Orlando drafting lottery picks and waiting multiple seasons before we see what they are capable of in a decent amount of in game minutes. Especially when players like Mitchell, Tatum, Jokic, Markannen, Ball, Brown, etc. are able to contribute on teams with way more talent than Orlando.

Not only the chance to contribute, but they were able to take their bumps and gain confidence out on the floor. Its like how Frank treated Mario year one. Maybe instead of sitting him on the bench for the rest of the season after only letting him play in 9 games, we could have allowed him to gain confidence and get consistent minutes and play through some of his struggles early on and seen him contribute like he did when he finally got those minutes last year.

The same can be said for Monk with Clifford last year. The kid was only given 12 mpg and was on a short leash the entire season. But the last 15 games or so when his minutes essentially doubled he averaged 13 ppg on 38 3pt fg% which was all significant improvements from his numbers early in the season when he couldn't find consistent minutes and take those bumps.

I just despise this "Well, if Bamba plays poorly during the start of the season he doesn't deserve those minutes" mentality that some posters here have. Like did we just not win 25 games last year? We should have zero issues with giving Bamba consistent minutes with AG and Isaac even if it comes at the expense of some wins. Thats the problem with the Clifford hire, similar to how it was with Vogel, now there is this expectation that we have to maximize all the wins we can out of this roster and our focus just shouldn't be there yet. It should be on the development of BIG.

Couldn’t agree more. I see Vuc’s minutes as a tool to ease Bamba into the nba, but if he isn’t hurt like JI was last year, there is zero excuse to give him legitimate minutes later in the season.

I’m already not looking forward to everyone BUT Clifford realizing this season is going to be a development year and not squeezing out wins on the back of heavy Vucevic minutes. You know it’s going to happen until he’s moved. We all do. Additionally, he’s not part of the future and shouldn’t be if we just selected Bamba with a high lottery pick. Getting him minutes in the rotation shouldn’t be the issue we know it’s going to be. Hopefully I’m wrong.

[PennytoShaq]

I think Clifford suspects it is a development year but he’s a coach so he’s not going to assume that the team will be bad out of the gate.

Whenever they ask him about playoffs he dodges around it a fair amount. Vogel was pretty much guaranteeing playoffs each season and that really made him lean on vets hard. Not sure Clifford will make that mistake.

[pepe1991]

I think Clifford suspects it is a development year but he’s a coach so he’s not going to assume that the team will be bad out of the gate.

Whenever they ask him about playoffs he dodges around it a fair amount. Vogel was pretty much guaranteeing playoffs each season and that really made him lean on vets hard. Not sure Clifford will make that mistake.

Vogel had right mind and in general i think he is good guy but got burned out with amount of limitations his players had. And him facing that type of obstacle for first time.
When he took Pacers in 2012 they went from 37 wins to 42-24 season because he couldy rely on David West and Granger and didn't need to babysit anybody, not to mention that in first year he had no big injuries whole season.
Next year Granger gets hurt but George's talent is too great to not notice and he takes over.
Next few years Vogel built career on , at times one of best way players, solid chemistry, strong defense and fact nobody else wanted to compete against Heat but them.

I guess he expected that Ibaka ,Vuc and Green will be vets to rely on , off and on the court , he wanted to turn Gordon into George and put other into role player type roles. PRoblem was, everything backfired so quick.

[J the Drafter]

Payton was not hurt for almost 80 games of the season. Thats simply not true.

Tons of people put context to his performance last year. There were plenty of threads about it and detailed discussions all season. Its been stated multiple times already.

Dogpiling him because he was playing poorly does not equate to putting his performance in context. It’s just using a bad stretch to justify previous criticisms. And he clearly wasn’t moving right from what I saw.

Ok, you are moving it around here. Before it was that he was only bad during the last half of the season. Now it’s that he was hurt the majority of the season and his movement wasn’t right.

Again - he was injured by game 2. So you are now saying he was never moving right after. That means that a “bad stretch” is actually the entire season and not just the second half like you were saying before.

Poor effort, Poor shooting. Poor defense. He’s gone now. Time to let go.

I said his play plummeted halfway through the season, and connected it to his knee tendinopathy diagnosis, though it was obvious that something was affecting his play.

[pepe1991]

Dogpiling him because he was playing poorly does not equate to putting his performance in context. It’s just using a bad stretch to justify previous criticisms. And he clearly wasn’t moving right from what I saw.

Ok, you are moving it around here. Before it was that he was only bad during the last half of the season. Now it’s that he was hurt the majority of the season and his movement wasn’t right.

Again - he was injured by game 2. So you are now saying he was never moving right after. That means that a “bad stretch” is actually the entire season and not just the second half like you were saying before.

Poor effort, Poor shooting. Poor defense. He’s gone now. Time to let go.

I said his play plummeted halfway through the season, and connected it to his knee tendinopathy diagnosis, though it was obvious that something was affecting his play.

Sometimes affected his plays for 4 years.
Lack of talent.

[VFX]

Dogpiling him because he was playing poorly does not equate to putting his performance in context. It’s just using a bad stretch to justify previous criticisms. And he clearly wasn’t moving right from what I saw.

Ok, you are moving it around here. Before it was that he was only bad during the last half of the season. Now it’s that he was hurt the majority of the season and his movement wasn’t right.

Again - he was injured by game 2. So you are now saying he was never moving right after. That means that a “bad stretch” is actually the entire season and not just the second half like you were saying before.

Poor effort, Poor shooting. Poor defense. He’s gone now. Time to let go.

I said his play plummeted halfway through the season, and connected it to his knee tendinopathy diagnosis, though it was obvious that something was affecting his play.

Yeah. Something must have been, and still is, affecting his play then.

[yoyojw17]

been a while since i've been this excited for a season. If Cliff can instill in these guys the correct mentality to sustain while on the court.... i really think that we can turn a corner and see the ray of hope for this team. Development Year or not... i think this team will click much better than people might think. unless players don't buy into what they are being taught. lol. But i think this team is at a point (maturity wise especially) that they will be much more receiving of criticism and guidance. Here's hoping!

2 hours and 16 min to go. whoop whoop. Go Magic!

[SOUL]

Pls. For love of the basketball.
Stop talking about Payton.
Dude cut his hair, had whole summer to get better and goes in first preseason game and shoots 2-10 with 0-3 for 3 and 0-1 from FT line.
Guy simply isn't good at playing basketball at NBA starters level and that's fine for even him.
Just give it up.

How many evidence do you need to figure he is not good player?

Key reason what holds Payton back is his lack of talent combined with poor effort.

The person that brought up Payton was to trash him.. the same thing you're doing lol. If you guys want to stop talking about him, stop bringing up preseason games.

Can't wait to judge Vuc if he sucks tonight.

[rcklsscognition]

I haven't watched Magic basketball in what, 6 months? I'm judging the hell out of everyone tonight.

[drsd]

The person that brought up Payton was to trash him

I for one am excited to see if this year's Augustin outperforms last year's Payton.
(the definition of "upgrade')


..

[MagicStarwipe]

Pls. For love of the basketball.
Stop talking about Payton.
Dude cut his hair, had whole summer to get better and goes in first preseason game and shoots 2-10 with 0-3 for 3 and 0-1 from FT line.
Guy simply isn't good at playing basketball at NBA starters level and that's fine for even him.
Just give it up.

How many evidence do you need to figure he is not good player?

Key reason what holds Payton back is his lack of talent combined with poor effort.

The person that brought up Payton was to trash him.. the same thing you're doing lol. If you guys want to stop talking about him, stop bringing up preseason games.

Can't wait to judge Vuc if he sucks tonight.

The funny thing is, if he had a good shooting night he'd be saying its only one preseason game and it means nothing

[pepe1991]

Pls. For love of the basketball.
Stop talking about Payton.
Dude cut his hair, had whole summer to get better and goes in first preseason game and shoots 2-10 with 0-3 for 3 and 0-1 from FT line.
Guy simply isn't good at playing basketball at NBA starters level and that's fine for even him.
Just give it up.

How many evidence do you need to figure he is not good player?

Key reason what holds Payton back is his lack of talent combined with poor effort.

The person that brought up Payton was to trash him.. the same thing you're doing lol. If you guys want to stop talking about him, stop bringing up preseason games.

Can't wait to judge Vuc if he sucks tonight.

The funny thing is, if he had a good shooting night he'd be saying its only one preseason game and it means nothing

There were 2 pages of penny and him going back and forth about him.
And yes, if he had good preseason game it would be just preseason game but it would be something, since he didn't play good game since what? Mid February?

Guy still sucks, that's just fact. Sorry.

[MagicStarwipe]

The person that brought up Payton was to trash him.. the same thing you're doing lol. If you guys want to stop talking about him, stop bringing up preseason games.

Can't wait to judge Vuc if he sucks tonight.

The funny thing is, if he had a good shooting night he'd be saying its only one preseason game and it means nothing

There were 2 pages of penny and him going back and forth about him.
And yes, if he had good preseason game it would be just preseason game but it would be something, since he didn't play good game since what? Mid February?

Guy still sucks, that's just fact. Sorry.

[NavalAviator94]

The funny thing is, if he had a good shooting night he'd be saying its only one preseason game and it means nothing

There were 2 pages of penny and him going back and forth about him.
And yes, if he had good preseason game it would be just preseason game but it would be something, since he didn't play good game since what? Mid February?

Guy still sucks, that's just fact. Sorry.

Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

[fendilim]

The funny thing is, if he had a good shooting night he'd be saying its only one preseason game and it means nothing

There were 2 pages of penny and him going back and forth about him.
And yes, if he had good preseason game it would be just preseason game but it would be something, since he didn't play good game since what? Mid February?

Guy still sucks, that's just fact. Sorry.

[fendilim]

Didnt someone say Elfrid will be better now because he has ber teammates?

[MagicStarwipe]

Didnt someone say Elfrid will be better now because he has ber teammates?

PELICANS PLAYER OF THE GAME

Elfrid Payton had an up-and-down preseason opener Sunday in Chicago, making a few bad passes that led to turnovers. In his second game Monday, Payton’s best statistic was seven assists and no turnovers, as he showed his passing ability, finding Davis and others for close-range hoops or wide-open three-pointers. Payton added seven points and two blocks. On one of those swats, he impressively used his 6-foot-4 frame and length to block a jumper by Atlanta lottery pick Trae Young in a halfcourt situation.

https://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/preseason-postgame-wrap-hawks-116-pelicans-102

Hmmmmmmmm

[pepe1991]

7 points is now strong performance ,against kid that has hoops and latheral quickness of Bill Russell today