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Official 2025 Offseason Thread

Moderators: Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird

Does the FO add a legitimate starting (scoring) guard to the roster this summer?

Yes
48
58%
No
35
42%
 
Total votes: 83

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1221 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:02 pm

CarraT wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
CarraT wrote:Well, feel free to complain at NBA.com that their statistics are wrong.
I don't need to. I watched the games and explained his role to you. If you can't comprehend, that's on you.

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We all are watching the games and we all can see on the court how bad he is in PnR. The numbers are perfectly in match with the eye test.
Dude, I can count on my hands how many times Black initinitiated the offense last season.

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1222 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:03 pm

Franz should have his green light taken away outside of 10'. End of story. I can post the numbers.

Do you see how silly this argument is?

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1223 » by CarraT » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:08 pm

basketballRob wrote:
CarraT wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I don't need to. I watched the games and explained his role to you. If you can't comprehend, that's on you.

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We all are watching the games and we all can see on the court how bad he is in PnR. The numbers are perfectly in match with the eye test.
Dude, I can count on my hands how many times Black initinitiated the offense last season.

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Maybe you should go to a doctor if you have so many fingers. Or you are just bad with numbers. One PnR every 7.5 mins on court for a guard trying to be PG isn´t even that much. Why is he not doing it more? Because he is one of the worst in whole league at it.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1224 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:14 pm

CarraT wrote:
Skybox wrote:
CarraT wrote:
I’ll take NAW over Schröder every day of the week.
And a player like Monk is not available for MLE.


Geez…read it again but slower, I’m talking about “types” and redundancy not those specific guys so much.

NAW > Schroder in a vacuum, so is KCP…not the point I was making. We have AB, why duplicate him while we still lack scoring pop from a reserve guard.


But we’re talking specifically about FA. So the pool of available players is kind of small. No need to talk about „types“, you can name the players you want to sign.

Plus: Benefit of signing NAW is IMO to package AB with another Big for Center upgrade trade.


OK that supports my/our point...NAW makes AB expendable or vice versa...AB WOULD have some trade value based largely on physical profile and perceived upside. I do think AB is roughly the same player as NAW today (a little bigger too and younger), but I'd also concede that AB has much more upside (in theory-who knows what he really looks like in 3yrs). I'd be on board with "sign NAW, trade AB in a move for a substantial C upgrade".
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1225 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:16 pm

basketballRob wrote:Franz should have his green light taken away outside of 10'. End of story. I can post the numbers.

Do you see how silly this argument is?

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about the same as most of yours :roll:
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1226 » by RichCollab » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:26 pm

I’m already burnt out. Can we please make and close all NBA trades and draft today!
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1227 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:28 pm

CarraT wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
CarraT wrote:We all are watching the games and we all can see on the court how bad he is in PnR. The numbers are perfectly in match with the eye test.
Dude, I can count on my hands how many times Black initinitiated the offense last season.

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Maybe you should go to a doctor if you have so many fingers. Or you are just bad with numbers. One PnR every 7.5 mins on court for a guard trying to be PG isn´t even that much. Why is he not doing it more? Because he is one of the worst in whole league at it.
If Black brings the ball up the court and Paolo sets a pick to get the switch then Paolo dribbles more than once, Black doesn't get credit for a point. That was last year's offense. That was Black's role.

I imagine that was the scenario in 250 of those 263 possessions.

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1228 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:34 pm

Redick07 wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
RichCollab wrote:
Ok. You add both NAW and Tyus. They aren’t signing unless guaranteed minutes.

What’s your rotation look like?

Dump Jett with 2 2nd or something


Bane/Tyus
Suggs/Black
Franz/NAW/Houstan
Paolo/ Isaac/25
WCJ/Goga/Moe W

1 vet min and leave 15th spot open. No way Tyus signs another 1 year deal though and I’m not sure the above doesn’t put us over 1st apron. Just a spitball


Where is Tristan da Silva?
I would like to put NAW at SG, TDS at SF
\

yeah missed TDS since he ghosted 2nd half of season but there we go.

Bane/Tyus
Suggs/Black
Franz/NAW/TDS
Paolo/ Isaac/25
WCJ/Goga/Moe W

there's 13, use a 2nd round pick you're at 14 and keep 15 open.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1229 » by Idiosyncratic » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:35 pm

Skybox wrote:
OK that supports my/our point...NAW makes AB expendable or vice versa...AB WOULD have some trade value based largely on physical profile and perceived upside. I do think AB is roughly the same player as NAW today (a little bigger too and younger), but I'd also concede that AB has much more upside (in theory-who knows what he really looks like in 3yrs). I'd be on board with "sign NAW, trade AB in a move for a substantial C upgrade".


Don't disagree with this logic especially if they want to totally go in on this 4 year window as hard as they can. The problem for me is I don't see available centers that I think are clearly going to make us more likely to win than Wendell and Goga. It is basically just Kessler. Then maybe the bet on Claxton returning to form. Maybe Poeltl at the deadline if the Raptors stink?

Definitely feel like clear cut good starting center is potentially a weakness for us, but almost feels like they just have to take shots in the draft if they want to upgrade that. Centers at least have been having success as young players recently. Ware, Missi, Clingan, Edey, Kessler, Post, Lively, Filipowski all drafted recently and playable, some even very good.

Also the fact that Wendell is very capable of switching and playing in Mosley's system. Think we just have to hope for a bounce back. He has been good previously.

I think even if AB doesn't improve, which is an extremely pessimistic outlook, he still has more value to us for the potential defense in the playoffs than most things we could trade him for IMO. I do think we may need a ball-handling guard to go with him though.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1230 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:39 pm

RichCollab wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
RichCollab wrote:
Ok. You add both NAW and Tyus. They aren’t signing unless guaranteed minutes.

What’s your rotation look like?

Dump Jett with 2 2nd or something


Bane/Tyus
Suggs/Black
Franz/NAW/Houstan
Paolo/ Isaac/25
WCJ/Goga/Moe W

1 vet min and leave 15th spot open. No way Tyus signs another 1 year deal though and I’m not sure the above doesn’t put us over 1st apron. Just a spitball


2nd unit is 4 defensive players.


that's not in 1st/2nd unit just a positional breakdown. 1 if not 2 of Paolo/Franz/Bane should be on the court at all times. 6th man in that scenario is Black subs out Suggs, then you stagger Tyus/NAW/Isaac for Franz/Bane/Paolo. 10 man rotation and you run with it.

Isaac is dead to me but there's no way he has any value and won't be moved so he is what he is.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1231 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:49 pm

Orlando, as a team, had a 6.9 percentile in pick and rolls. I hope Bane can open that up for us.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/roll-man?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=PERCENTILE

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1232 » by eyriq » Mon Jun 23, 2025 2:53 pm

Idiosyncratic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
NAW makes AB expendable or vice versa.


Don't disagree with this logic


I believe you've said before that you see AB more as a wing than a point guard. Is this really where you stand?
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1233 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 23, 2025 3:02 pm

A rumor is out that they are moving D'Aaron Fox to small forward next season because he was in the 13.6 percentile in pick and roll ballhandling. Can someone verify? That was in around 85 attempts with the Spurs. He was better than Westbrook at 11.2

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1234 » by Idiosyncratic » Mon Jun 23, 2025 3:05 pm

eyriq wrote:
Idiosyncratic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
NAW makes AB expendable or vice versa.


Don't disagree with this logic


I believe you've said before that you see AB more as a wing than a point guard. Is this really where you stand?


I think I see him as more of a defensive specialist combo guard like what Nembhard does for Indiana or earlier career Caruso. Dyson Daniels as well. He may grow and slow down into being more of a wing like current Caruso, but that is where I am at now.

I'm not writing off him becoming a PG because I do see him flash some special vision and you never know who randomly adds handling, but I think this is his likely role. And I think that is a super valuable player that every team wants to have. Still needs to get a little more efficient finishing or hitting 3s (hopefully both) to be a consistent positive, but I don't see why he can't.

Also have no problem having AB and NAW together, I like that kind of player, can't have enough. Was agreeing more along the lines of if you could move AB for a clear center upgrade it could solidify the team, but I don't think that will be out there so just keep him.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1235 » by eyriq » Mon Jun 23, 2025 3:13 pm

Idiosyncratic wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Idiosyncratic wrote:
Don't disagree with this logic


I believe you've said before that you see AB more as a wing than a point guard. Is this really where you stand?


I think I see him as more of a defensive specialist combo guard like what Nembhard does for Indiana or earlier career Caruso. Dyson Daniels as well. He may grow and slow down into being more of a wing like current Caruso, but that is where I am at now.

I'm not writing off him becoming a PG because I do see him flash some special vision and you never know who randomly adds handling, but I think this is his likely role. And I think that is a super valuable player that every team wants to have. Still needs to get a little more efficient finishing or hitting 3s (hopefully both) to be a consistent positive, but I don't see why he can't.

Also have no problem having AB and NAW together, I like that kind of player, can't have enough. Was agreeing more along the lines of if you could move AB for a clear center upgrade it could solidify the team, but I don't think that will be out there so just keep him.


That's a thoughtful take, and I see where you're coming from. I definitely get the comparison to players like Caruso and Nembhard, and even Dyson to some extent. That defensive-minded, low-usage archetype is valuable, especially in playoff settings.

But with AB, I see signs of a higher ceiling. His free throw rate, growth trajectory, and the fact that the front office is clearly developing him on-ball suggest more is coming. He’s only 21, and while the defense already plays at a veteran level, the offensive upside is still unfolding.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1236 » by MagicTownBaller » Mon Jun 23, 2025 3:17 pm

Do we have a group chat anywhere for during the draft?
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1237 » by CarraT » Mon Jun 23, 2025 4:21 pm

basketballRob wrote:Orlando, as a team, had a 6.9 percentile in pick and rolls. I hope Bane can open that up for us.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/roll-man?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=PERCENTILE

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I thaught you don’t believe the stats there?! :lol:
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1238 » by dsg2021 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 4:54 pm

A lot of heresy being thrown around here. Clearly there will be an Anthony Black with All Star impact soon. Right around the time God Shammmgod has trained him for a full season and offseason, and Black is just extended for 12 per/4 yrs to avoid his inevitable max contract as he racks up two All-Defensive Teams, one 6MOTY, and one All Star in the final year of that 12 per contract.
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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1239 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 23, 2025 4:56 pm

dsg2021 wrote:A lot of heresy being thrown around here. Clearly there will be an Anthony Black with All Star impact soon. Right around the time God Shammmgod has trained him for a full season and offseason, and Black is just extended for 12 per/4 yrs to avoid his inevitable max contract as he racks up two All-Defensive Teams, one 6MOTY, and one All Star in the final year of that 12 per contract.
That's what I was thinking. He'll sign a modest extension and continue to improve every season. We saw it last season. He improved each month.

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Re: Official 2025 Offseason Thread 

Post#1240 » by dsg2021 » Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:00 pm

eyriq wrote:
CarraT wrote:
eyriq wrote: AB, on the other hand, is a downhill playmaker. More pick-and-roll, drive-and-kick, connector-type.


AB generates 0.68 PPP as PnR Ballhandler, he is in the 16th percentile. It´s amazing how bad he is here

Edith: Thats by far worst on the team, even worse than Jett :D
He'll earn those badges this season. Trust. He's already got solid playmaking attributes, e.g., ball handle: 86, pass accuracy: 80, pass IQ: 77, pass vision: 69, and Speed with ball: 74. Badges like Dimer, Handles for Days, Unpluckable, Ankle Assassin, Lob City Passer, Killer Combos, Needle Threader, etc are uploading.


:rofl:

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