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I know this is out there but imagine having Jett instead of Gary, yeah his defense ain't all there but the outside treat would have helped spacing. Too bad he barely got to play this year so that's not happening.

ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:Me: Trae Young's career stat against Cavs
Google: Trae Young has averaged 25.7 points, 9.2 assists and 2.8 rebounds in 18 games against the Cavaliers in his career.

The problem with Trae is not his countable stats but his percentages and defense. What is his shooting percentage? What is his 3 point percentage? How many shots did he take to get those points? How was his defense?

No idea, but what was our combined guards shooting percentage this game? 3 point percentage? I'm going to assume Trae's was higher. Funny enough, Trae's points and assist is more than our guards combined.

BTW, I am not saying that I want him on the team, I'm just saying he's better offensively than our guards collectively. Now, defensively, that is completely different.

If the Magic backcourt shot at their average their shooting percentage would be better than Trae’s. However, Trae assists and ability to get the free throw line would be better than the Magic backcourt.

Maybe a hot take but id rather trade for tyler herro that pay 3/90 for klay thompson, if heat get swept theyll want the cap space we can probably get him on the cheap

ChosenSavior wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

ChosenSavior wrote:
We wouldn't have 11 missed free throws with him on the team. Paolo's turnovers are probably down since Trae would be orchestrating more. Could possibly offset the production Mitchell and Garland provided.

Would lean towards fact.

I don’t know man Trae also bags more TOs per game than Paolo, his defense is pretty bad, and shooting is pretty inefficient if you aren’t considering his free shooting.

Yeah I know. Despite that, he would still be the most talented PG we've rostered which speaks to how bad our PG rotation has been.

Yeah, I agree and he does get a ton of assists.

JF5 wrote:

Bensational wrote:

JF5 wrote:
Harris shoots 5.5 shots per game. 3.8 of them are 3 point shots and he makes them at a 37 percent clip.

And clearly teams chase after him when he's shooting the 3.

Teams don't even try to guard black half the time.

The Black takes for him to play more over guys who are way better offensive player than him make me laugh and themselves are ridiculous.

You're saying this in defense of a guy who made ZERO buckets on 5 attempts from 3. There is no scenario where that represents a "way better" offensive performance. He's literally giving us zero production on the offensive end, even if defenders are chasing him around.

That said, Harris also plays great defense which he doesn't get credited for, he knows how to operate in the offense off-ball and he has a proven history of knocking down shots from 3, so I don't think he should be getting docked minutes. Fultz and Cole should be seeing some serious reductions though.

Black deserves minutes purely for the development and exposure. We're getting zero benefit short term or long term by playing Fultz and Cole right now.

You're purposely moving the the narrative though.

Who in general is the much better offensive option and shooter? It's clearly Harris

Clearly the guy YOU just mentioned that other teams chase after when he catches and shoots the ball. He had a bad game but so did about everyone else outside of Paolo. This happens...

This isn't the preseason, nor the regular season... The team is trying to place in surrounding players that will help the current core maximize their abilities and add to their experience. Throwing in an inexperienced rookie with no offense, and confidence issues does not help him and your team.

Moving the narrative? You're claiming players are superior offensive options when they're literally providing zero offensive production, and now justifying that by moving the goalposts to "The team is trying to place in surrounding players that will help the current core maximize their abilities and add to their experience". Maximise their experience of watching their teammates miss shots?

FWIW, I was making the point that I still value Harris for his other contributions, so I wouldn't be arguing for Black to play over him. But Fultz was 0-4 and Cole was 0-7 which just isn't a standard that should be defended. If you genuinely think that level of play and the final result shouldn't prompt Mosley to explore other options then I don't know what to say. Black's defense is that much superior to either of those guys that it's enough to negate any concern of offensive 'risk' when the standard he has to match is ZERO points. You can't get much lower risk than that.

It will be disappointing if at the end of the postseason Fultz and Harris leave in free agency and take all the playoff experience with them. We've gotta be thinking about the future as much as we're thinking about this matchup. This series won't define us, but Black/Jett/Houstan might have a hand in shaping that definition, so the choice should be pretty clear.

Rainwater wrote:

Knightro wrote:Fact or fiction…

The Magic win today's game with Trae Young starting at PG.

lol I don’t know. Defense would definitely be weaker and he really isn’t the greatest shooter honestly. Depends how much he would get to the line and if he can control his TOs.

Hot take: if the Magic make a PG addition in the offseason it won't look pretty to start next season. I think it's going to take Paolo some time to learn how to fit with another playmaker and play off them. Franz and the C probably stand to benefit the most from the addition, while Paolo might take a dip in production and efficiency - and people will turn on Paolo very quickly as a result.

Bensational wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

Knightro wrote:Fact or fiction…

The Magic win today's game with Trae Young starting at PG.

lol I don’t know. Defense would definitely be weaker and he really isn’t the greatest shooter honestly. Depends how much he would get to the line and if he can control his TOs.

Hot take: if the Magic make a PG addition in the offseason it won't look pretty to start next season. I think it's going to take Paolo some time to learn how to fit with another playmaker and play off them. Franz and the C probably stand to benefit the most from the addition, while Paolo might take a dip in production and efficiency - and people will turn on Paolo very quickly as a result.

I don’t know man, it could also make his life easier. Regardless, it’s obvious that help is needed at the guard positions. They definitely need a pg and they need a creator, if they can find a pg that can create that would be ideal. This team can’t go anywhere without these improvements therefore Paolo will have to adjust if it does affect his game. As i believe that Paolo will be a superstar I don’t think it will affect his game too much.

Those 2 opening minutes on ESPN with no commentary were great. I would much rather hear that than G-League Doris Burke.

Bensational wrote:

JF5 wrote:

Bensational wrote:
You're saying this in defense of a guy who made ZERO buckets on 5 attempts from 3. There is no scenario where that represents a "way better" offensive performance. He's literally giving us zero production on the offensive end, even if defenders are chasing him around.

That said, Harris also plays great defense which he doesn't get credited for, he knows how to operate in the offense off-ball and he has a proven history of knocking down shots from 3, so I don't think he should be getting docked minutes. Fultz and Cole should be seeing some serious reductions though.

Black deserves minutes purely for the development and exposure. We're getting zero benefit short term or long term by playing Fultz and Cole right now.

You're purposely moving the the narrative though.

Who in general is the much better offensive option and shooter? It's clearly Harris

Clearly the guy YOU just mentioned that other teams chase after when he catches and shoots the ball. He had a bad game but so did about everyone else outside of Paolo. This happens...

This isn't the preseason, nor the regular season... The team is trying to place in surrounding players that will help the current core maximize their abilities and add to their experience. Throwing in an inexperienced rookie with no offense, and confidence issues does not help him and your team.

Moving the narrative? You're claiming players are superior offensive options when they're literally providing zero offensive production, and now justifying that by moving the goalposts to "The team is trying to place in surrounding players that will help the current core maximize their abilities and add to their experience". Maximise their experience of watching their teammates miss shots?

FWIW, I was making the point that I still value Harris for his other contributions, so I wouldn't be arguing for Black to play over him. But Fultz was 0-4 and Cole was 0-7 which just isn't a standard that should be defended. If you genuinely think that level of play and the final result shouldn't prompt Mosley to explore other options then I don't know what to say. Black's defense is that much superior to either of those guys that it's enough to negate any concern of offensive 'risk' when the standard he has to match is ZERO points. You can't get much lower risk than that.

It will be disappointing if at the end of the postseason Fultz and Harris leave in free agency and take all the playoff experience with them. We've gotta be thinking about the future as much as we're thinking about this matchup. This series won't define us, but Black/Jett/Houstan might have a hand in shaping that definition, so the choice should be pretty clear.

Clearly moving the narrative... Again, if you put up a poll here and ask who is the better offensive player between Black or Harris or Black against Cole and you know damn well how those polls are going to look. No question...

And again... EVERYONE outside of Paolo was terrible offensively... Should we bench everyone and put in Houstan, Goga, Black, Chuma, and Schofield? Takes like this for a young team in their first playoff road game (first playoff game in totality) Should be a bit more centered. They looked scared, they looked rattled, and they looked inexperienced.

People here are already screaming to shorten up the rotation. Now we want to place in more young guys with no experience in a playoff situation who are more likely to lose their composure and make more mistakes with the core young guys they're already running who to are struggling and making their share of mistakes. That logic does not breed success AT ALL...

They are thinking about the future... but I think unfortunately a lot of you guys are in denial that guys like Black might not be apart of it. This team is in extreme need of veteran shooters, scorers, and hybrid playmaking/shooting. Black is more of a connector piece that fits none of those needs the Magic have.

richi_v25 wrote:I know this is out there but imagine having Jett instead of Gary, yeah his defense ain't all there but the outside treat would have helped spacing. Too bad he barely got to play this year so that's not happening.

Jett knocking shots down.

Guaranteed.

Who cares about defense when you have two cycles in same game of Fultz Joe and Cole?

I hope Moseley does some kind of adjustments….. but he’s gonna have to show me.

Good coaches do adjustments game to game…..

GREAT coaches eliminate players from a series who should be in….. and then they could be a factor in the next series.

Trotting out the same rotation next game…. It will be hard to watch the rest of the series after that.

Exactly what I feared happened. We struggled mightily against a team with really good rim protection largely because we couldn't make threes. And our lack of playmaking and ballhandling talent was badly exposed. In the playoffs usually the more playmaking the better yet we are asking Paolo and Franz to create everything while our guards do pretty much nothing in terms of playmaking and little in terms of shot creation. Paolo's 9 turnovers are of course on him in large part, but he is being put in a very difficult situation. We are rushing things on offense all game and the results were disastrous. Almost everyone was shocking on offense, Harris who is supposed to be one of the vet was one of the worst in terms of rushing things and bicking shots. Suggs was rushing everything on offense, Cole had a shocker and I am pretty sure didn't have a single decent pass all game, Fultz didn't do anything on offense either, Ingles was way too passive. Franz really struggled at the rim.

A shame that another really good defensive performance was wasted by offensive ineptitude. Hopefully we will be less nervous in Game 2 and stop rushing things, but we also just lack the required talent for good playoff offense.

I know people want some changes but if the Magic simply shot at avg and shot at a higher clip the free throw line this is a winnable game. This was the main reason for the loss.

Bensational wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

Knightro wrote:Fact or fiction…

The Magic win today's game with Trae Young starting at PG.

lol I don’t know. Defense would definitely be weaker and he really isn’t the greatest shooter honestly. Depends how much he would get to the line and if he can control his TOs.

Hot take: if the Magic make a PG addition in the offseason it won't look pretty to start next season. I think it's going to take Paolo some time to learn how to fit with another playmaker and play off them. Franz and the C probably stand to benefit the most from the addition, while Paolo might take a dip in production and efficiency - and people will turn on Paolo very quickly as a result.

How?

Paolo can play more in the post and face up attack situations mid range.

Paolo doesn’t need to be handling the ball like a PG…..

He’s not a PG….

Yet we still don’t have one that can play off Paolo in the post/midrange post where Paolo can attack and they have to double or he has a guy or two to kick out that can knock it down or swing it to the corner for a capable corner shooter.

Honestly people need to calm down. The things we saw are not surprising. We knew this team cant shoot 3s, guards cant score, and we are a shaky ft team. This team did not give up and kept fighting each time they got down. They could very easily have laid down but they kept fighting. We imposed the style of game which is good. Problem was the offense was so bad we couldn’t take advantage of the defense. Glad this young team is getting valuable experience. Fultz will be gone and Gary should be too despite his fantastic defense (you cant have your starting SG give you absolutely nothing offensively over and over), they need to be replaced with fantastic shooters. Get some shooters on this team and upgrade at guard scoring and this team is contending sooner than later. But there is no fix until free agency time/draft. Hopefully they can win a game or two this series as they take their learning licks.

We need to start Goga instead of WCJ, move Franz to the two and Isaac to the 3.

If Fultz can't produce off the bench then give Anthony Black minutes... very simple

Optimus_Steel wrote:Honestly people need to calm down. The things we saw are not surprising. We knew this team cant shoot 3s, guards cant score, and we are a shaky ft team.

Eh, I think that's exactly why people are feeling the way they are, though. This was predictable, and everyone knew how Weltman had limited the ceiling of this team when Ingles became our major addition this offseason.

Now we've got to watch our 21-year-old power forward force his offense against triple teams and our team potentially get eliminated in 5 against a beatable Cavs team. I don't think anybody wanted to leverage our future in a major deal, but there was a middle ground that could have been met at any point leading to the deadline to better our chances.

Unfortunately this Cavs team is kinda built like kryptonite for this Magic squad, and game 1 showed this. They have star guards, and talented size up front. Add the Magic’s abysmal shooting and the mistakes they normally make with turnovers and losing this game was probably inevitable. If the Magic can execute and hit there averages, I think the series can still be won.

Weltman has been here 7 years and has been completely incapable of adding 3-point shooting (really any shooting) to this team.

He totally blew the 2023 draft. We didn't need more 20-year-old rookies, but he drafted two of them anyway. Worse, neither is good enough to even make the rotation, even though Orlando has the absolute worst backcourt in the NBA (and second-worst isn't close). He should've traded the picks to address obvious weaknesses on this roster. Now we have two stiffs who probably don't even have much trade value (certainly not as much value as they had as numbers 6 and 11 on draft night).

Then he let the trade deadline pass despite having several expiring contracts and guys on rookie deals, in additional to future firsts. He's never added a top-tier free agent, so this summer's cap space is useless. It just feels like all windows have closed while he sat on his hands.

Issue with Harris seems to be he doesn't want to take any bad shots.... Which is a weird mindset for a shooter imo.... You see the difference with Caleb and hell even jett..... They are going to let that thing fly, it's that shooters confidence that even if I miss 10 in a row I'm making the next 10 in a row..... Gary just doesn't have that, add the limited shot making and playmaking then it's hard to argue AB not playing over Gary other than experience..... But the counterpoint to that would be if AB is apart of your future and Harris is not then how can you NOT play AB?

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Knightro wrote:Fact or fiction…

The Magic win today's game with Trae Young starting at PG.

Had this exact thought in the middle of the game. Fact.