The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[PrimeThyme]

I'd classify it as disappointing, but not to the extent that some people will make it out to be.

I'm still all-in on him being a long-term piece for this rebuild. There were moments, and games (especially post wrist injury), that I was able to point to this year and say that's why we drafted him. He plays with a certain intensity and has certain intangibles that you can't teach.

Suggs wants to be great, && I think that's what got him into some trouble this year. He was often caught trying to do too much, and as someone who didn't get the on-ball creator/PnR reps in college, it landed him into trouble at times. The game is still very fast for him, && the shot not falling didn't help to open up what I think will be his most lethal scoring ability (attacking the basket/getting to the line).

I'm sure people will continue to jump off the bandwagon and label him a bust, but I saw enough of what I needed to not to join that camp. A dedicated summer of healing and working on his shot, plus another training camp/preseason, should do wonders for Suggs and that's what I'm betting on.

[Magic_Kingdom]

It concerns me that his shot did not get any better as the season went on.

[thelead]

It concerns me that his shot did not get any better as the season went on.

I think his shooting woes were a combination of thinking too much, the wrist injury, and the ankle injury.

If we're being honest, this season he was a near bust. His hustle and defense keeps him out of the absolute bust territory and I'm still hopeful that he puts it all together soon. He can't be an effective player on a championship level team shooting as poorly as he did this year... but I don't think that he will continue to be a sub-30% 3pt shooter. I just can't imagine that to be the case for someone who works as hard as he does and has his heart in it. Hell, his passion is the only reason why I'm not jumping ship on him. He has 'leader' written all over him. I just hope his game catches up.

[Skin]

His character and work ethic is great, but he seems destined to be a valuable 6th man type, not a star.

[JF5]

I'd classify it as disappointing, but not to the extent that some people will make it out to be.

I'm still all-in on him being a long-term piece for this rebuild. There were moments, and games (especially post wrist injury), that I was able to point to this year and say that's why we drafted him. He plays with a certain intensity and has certain intangibles that you can't teach.

Suggs wants to be great, && I think that's what got him into some trouble this year. He was often caught trying to do too much, and as someone who didn't get the on-ball creator/PnR reps in college, it landed him into trouble at times. The game is still very fast for him, && the shot not falling didn't help to open up what I think will be his most lethal scoring ability (attacking the basket/getting to the line).

I'm sure people will continue to jump off the bandwagon and label him a bust, but I saw enough of what I needed to not to join that camp. A dedicated summer of healing and working on his shot, plus another training camp/preseason, should do wonders for Suggs and that's what I'm betting on.

All of this...

I said this at the beginning of the year where I identified him as a project.

His Offensive Skills are so raw, and his understanding/knowledge of the game is ridiculously basic. I accounted this to him being a two sport athlete and also him being so dominant in the HS and AAU circuit that he didn't need to know the fundamentals and hone his craft. Also, with him playing on teams that were so great that he rather managed the game rather than takeover, so him having to develop abilities in beng an iso-player or just "getting buckets" suffered greatly once he got to the league.

He's had injury issues, confidence issues, and shooting problems that have been abysmal that were made worse by his confidence issues. But from the flashes I saw from this kid in the stretches where he was going. You saw a man who could just take over on both ends of the court. He's so versatile and can do everything and it was just so astonishing and infectious.

I'm probably going to get heat for this now. But he possesses top 10 player abilities with his potential. Will he reach it? That remains to be seen. But he has the intangibles, he has the "it" factor, work ethic, and has all the necessary tools and abilities/Along with his Intelligence/Awareness.

He's on an organization that has shown great patience with their players, and they focus on maximizing physical and mental health (as he's severely struggling with his confidence at the moment). Also, on top of that he's surrounded by guys who are more ready and able to handle the pressure of being the face of the team (Wagner, Carter, Fultz) at the moment as he is figuring it out.

To me he's one of those guys if they're able to have it all click will be an absolute terror.

[sodmoraes]

Is this the official Jalen Succks thread?

[tiderulz]

Is this the official Jalen Succks thread?

whats your point?

[SOUL]

Is this the official Jalen Succks thread?

whats your point?

He already got warned for trolling.

[PrimeThyme]

Patience is key. There are generally intangibles that I look for in terms of determining whether a player is going to figure it out or not. Suggs has nearly all of them in spades, which is why I never waivered on his improvement.

I can't help but think of the differences in this rebuild versus our last, either. The difference two bonafide superstar-caliber players capable of elite-level shot creation make on a roster. How it allows for a player like Suggs to lean on their current strengths and carve out roles. If you plop Suggs onto our 2016-2019 roster, what kind of player does he become? I imagine he has to lean even heavier on his less refined creation skills out of necessity like he did during his first season. Leading to confidence struggles and inconsistent play. Very similar to the predicament AG found himself in during our last rebuild.

Paolo quite honestly changed the trajectory of Suggs career, in my opinion. Like Jokic did for AG. Suggs can now comfortably fall into a role that will make him one of the most valuable players in the league without the on-ball creation responsibilities he would have likely had in another life (one without Paolo or Franz).

Bill Simmons always talks about simulating a player's career 20 times and seeing the different outcomes it produces in terms of a player's ceiling. I think for all the non-superstar players of the league who would succeed regardless of era or team, it's one of the more interesting practices. All of the lost players who never gain traction due to circumstances they find themselves in at the beginning of their careers.

In my opinion, this is developing into nearly the perfect sim for Suggs. The city has embraced him, he's thriving, and I cannot wait to see the special moments he creates in the playoffs.

[jezzerinho]

Patience is key. There are generally intangibles that I look for in terms of determining whether a player is going to figure it out or not. Suggs has nearly all of them in spades, which is why I never waivered on his improvement.

I can't help but think of the differences in this rebuild versus our last, either. The difference two bonafide superstar-caliber players capable of elite-level shot creation make on a roster. How it allows for a player like Suggs to lean on their current strengths and carve out roles. If you plop Suggs onto our 2016-2019 roster, what kind of player does he become? I imagine he has to lean even heavier on his less refined creation skills out of necessity like he did during his first season. Leading to confidence struggles and inconsistent play. Very similar to the predicament AG found himself in during our last rebuild.

Paolo quite honestly changed the trajectory of Suggs career, in my opinion. Like Jokic did for AG. Suggs can now comfortably fall into a role that will make him one of the most valuable players in the league without the on-ball creation responsibilities he would have likely had in another life (one without Paolo or Franz).

Bill Simmons always talks about simulating a player's career 20 times and seeing the different outcomes it produces in terms of a player's ceiling. I think for all the non-superstar players of the league who would succeed regardless of era or team, it's one of the more interesting practices. All of the lost players who never gain traction due to circumstances they find themselves in at the beginning of their careers.

In my opinion, this is developing into nearly the perfect sim for Suggs. The city has embraced him, he's thriving, and I cannot wait to see the special moments he creates in the playoffs.

Great Post.

People wonder how teams like the Heat, Bucks, Nuggets and others manage to get such good players while drafting at the bottom of the first.

Obviously, they're good front offices in the first place, hence the success.

But, they also have the benefit of dropping their rookies into limited and confined roles early on, to help them develop and to get them learning off star players in a controlled fashion. High lottery teams just force-feed minutes to teenagers, who then pick up bad habits or develop in unhelpful directions.

We lucked out with Franz, Suggs and Paolo in terms of how they bought into the team culture and Mose' coaching. Good scouting also, it must be said.

[GelbeWand09]

Read on Twitter

[Optimus_Steel]

Suggs has completely proved me wrong on the 3pt shooting. 39% on high volume is not something I expected whatsoever.

[Last Guardian]

Suggs has completely proved me wrong on the 3pt shooting. 39% on high volume is not something I expected whatsoever.

He's automatic when he's set. I have a fairly high amount of confidence he'll make it if he's open.

[CarraT]

Suggs has completely proved me wrong on the 3pt shooting. 39% on high volume is not something I expected whatsoever.

Despite his miserable numbers in his rookie year, i always had confidence in him to get better here. His form was always great, his arch was good, his self-confidence, his work ethic.
But yes, i still wasnt expecting 39% on 5+ attempts in his 3rd year. Thats one of the best statistical improvments ive seen in two years, coming from 21%

[VFX]

Patience is key. There are generally intangibles that I look for in terms of determining whether a player is going to figure it out or not. Suggs has nearly all of them in spades, which is why I never waivered on his improvement.

I can't help but think of the differences in this rebuild versus our last, either. The difference two bonafide superstar-caliber players capable of elite-level shot creation make on a roster. How it allows for a player like Suggs to lean on their current strengths and carve out roles. If you plop Suggs onto our 2016-2019 roster, what kind of player does he become? I imagine he has to lean even heavier on his less refined creation skills out of necessity like he did during his first season. Leading to confidence struggles and inconsistent play. Very similar to the predicament AG found himself in during our last rebuild.

Paolo quite honestly changed the trajectory of Suggs career, in my opinion. Like Jokic did for AG. Suggs can now comfortably fall into a role that will make him one of the most valuable players in the league without the on-ball creation responsibilities he would have likely had in another life (one without Paolo or Franz).

Bill Simmons always talks about simulating a player's career 20 times and seeing the different outcomes it produces in terms of a player's ceiling. I think for all the non-superstar players of the league who would succeed regardless of era or team, it's one of the more interesting practices. All of the lost players who never gain traction due to circumstances they find themselves in at the beginning of their careers.

In my opinion, this is developing into nearly the perfect sim for Suggs. The city has embraced him, he's thriving, and I cannot wait to see the special moments he creates in the playoffs.

Suggs is a classic example of people making claims on rookie contract guys, assuming they’ve seen everything they need, to falsely think they know who they’ll become.

He is already elite defensively. He improved his shooting numbers and is another playmaker on both sides of the court. You couldn’t possibly construct a better player comp to have next to Franz and Paolo if you tried.

The number of arguments people got into over calling this guy a bust in year 2 is insane. We will see the same with Black because people never learn.

[KillMonger]

It would seem people calling him a bust was maybe a bit premature.... Happy with his improvements and can't wait to see how much more he's going to improve

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

if you want to watch how young and good playmaker looks like, watch Haliburton set his team.
Or watch Chris Paul at age of 36. one thing he doesn't do- jack 4 threes a game if he makes 22% of them. One thing he always does- creates points for othres. Despite being 36 and harly looking for own shots (11,5 shots a game) he creates whooping 19,5 potential assists. Same with prime Nash.
Magic, despite having THREE point guards on roster, still have zero playmakers capable of running ofense. Addition of Suggs turned to be adding Fultz clone instad of adding actual playmaker.

its not like he spent years at college and had a lot of time to develop new stuff. In reality, he had about 3 months to really work on his game before the season started. again, rookie player, never fully devoted to basketball so ill give him another year or to before passing final judgement. This need to judge rookies so quickly (by many people, not just you) still surprises me. there are many examples of players that needed a couple of years of seasoning. Eric Bledsoe who you compared him to is an example.

This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba. And on top of that ,he isn't even very good playmaker. That's objective reality.
much like it was case with Fultz & his shooting and Payton and everything about him, i struggle to see that scenario as objective one.
You don't go mediocre highschool shooter, mediocre college shooter, dreadful nba rookie shooter into Dame Lillard. it doesn't work like that.

How would you like your crow prepared? BBQ or Sautéed?

[Residual-Heat]

Still just scratching the surface of his potential.

[RookieStar]

wow... a lot of crows and receipts in this thread..

[pepe1991]

its not like he spent years at college and had a lot of time to develop new stuff. In reality, he had about 3 months to really work on his game before the season started. again, rookie player, never fully devoted to basketball so ill give him another year or to before passing final judgement. This need to judge rookies so quickly (by many people, not just you) still surprises me. there are many examples of players that needed a couple of years of seasoning. Eric Bledsoe who you compared him to is an example.

This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba. And on top of that ,he isn't even very good playmaker. That's objective reality.
much like it was case with Fultz & his shooting and Payton and everything about him, i struggle to see that scenario as objective one.
You don't go mediocre highschool shooter, mediocre college shooter, dreadful nba rookie shooter into Dame Lillard. it doesn't work like that.

How would you like your crow prepared? BBQ or Sautéed?

You really wanna do victory laps based on one season and "breakout " of 12 poits and 2,5 assists for 5th overall pick in contract year ?

Suggs was drafted to be a PG.
instad he is spot up 3 point shooting SG who only takes open & wide open 3s. Yes, his 3 point percentage improved. But it only went up when we stopped playing him at PG all together.

And to me, it's fine . But it still does not change my opinion that nba guards, in order to have serious offense, need to do more than from time to time hit wide open 3s. Especially in playoffs.

He is one of players i will keep close eye on, once we make playoffs. IF he can hit high percentage of 3s against better pressure, not turn the ball over and maintain level of defense, and showcase himself as more than just 3& D role player, i'll happily eat crows.

But whole bunch of young players do have one "pop" season and revert back in next year(s). From his class alone it happend to Murphey III last year, now Kuminga is breaking out, Kispert last year shot lights out, not so much this year, Cade right now is breaking out, Segun is favorite to win MIP etc.

We will have better outlook on what all of them are in playoffs or at the end of next year, where their rookie deals are out.

Once again, i have no issue about being wrong. But 1 out of 3 years does not mean 2 years didn't happen.