Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 2.0

[VFX]

I will say it clearer

The Magic FO is not content today or ever.

They are simply opposed to making trades for non-difference-maker players at obscene prices.

This feels a bit needlessly argumentative to what we're actually talking about though.

You're are turning this into a much more broad "oh well, of course the front office is not content because they haven't built a title team yet" type of statement, which is fine and not even necessarily inaccurate or wrong, but also kind of irrelevant because we're talking about the here and now considering this is the 2023-2024 trade thread.

Weltman has said quite literally like 20 times over the past two years, basically every time he's made public statements frankly, that the Magic are not going to rush the process or skip steps. On top of that the Magic are also 27-23 through 50 games with a soft and home heavy schedule upcoming.

With those things in mind, it stands to reason - at least to me - that Weltman is very happy and content with where the Magic are *at this point in the process*.

Of course there's more work to be done for the Magic to level up from solid playoff team to team capable of winning multiple playoff series, but I don't see that transition as something that is a priority for Weltman to accomplish at this moment in time.

Because frankly, the moment Weltman actually does push chips into the middle of table and "go for it" the clock actually starts ticking in a tangible way on his ability to build a title contender.

Just my two cents, but Jeff seems perfectly content to just let things play out organically (and continue to have gainful employment without pressure) and not push "all in" until it's absolutely necessary.

This feels needlessly presumptuous.

"content" was your word, not mine.

I guess through a long list of contortions, you can make it mean whatever you want; ultimately, the FO is not content with where the team is at today. No front office would be as the goal of a championship is still a ways away.

I am sure that there is a degree of satisfaction in obtaining 3 stars in 2 drafts, and 1 of those stars appears to have the potential to be a superstar.

When a team has almost no probability of winning a championship, the FO responsibility is to do whatever it takes to make the team better.

When a team is in the Magic's current position there is 1 more responsibility: don't screw up what you have.

Just to jump in here : I agree with both of you to an extent…

Weltman is likely “content” with everything because he’s never been one to make high risk moves. All he needed to see this season with multiple expiring contracts is how much this team has progressed up until this juncture.

Now… is that necessarily the barometer for not making any decisions at this deadline? No, it shouldn’t be. Any of us can tell that he has a lot of work to do in surrounding Paolo/Franz with better talent in this critical timeframe.

The issue is that he doesn’t need to… yet. Why? Because he can just point at this years results compared to previous seasons and say “look how well we are doing with this group when everyone is semi-healthy”. That has been his ongoing talking point forever regardless of how true it really is in relation to future wins.

No, the Orlando Magic aren’t winning a championship.
No, they do not have the assets to land anyone significant.
Yes, the roster is overcrowded and unfinished.

Weltman has shown that he uses every minute of available time before he makes roster decisions. He has no real reason not to other than pissing off a majority of somewhat-aware fans and passing up better offers for diminishing talent. Why? Because why would he care if he still has a job next season. It’s the same reason he didn’t trade Fultz last season at the deadline and why he got absolutely nothing for Ross, Bamba, Fournier, Bol, etc when he had the chance multiple seasons prior.

The info coming out right now about Orlando being interested in a point guard is both obvious and likely just talk. He needs to look like he’s actually doing something, but the chances he pulls the trigger on anything I’ll be surprised.

[Skin]

The situation with the Heat should be instructive for why you shouldn't make any moves willy nilly or just for the sake of going all in. They gave Charlotte a first round pick that has the potential to be unprotected in 2028, when Butler may be gone. Rozier has played terribly since they got him (obviously could change). Now it is the Heat, so they may have a rebuild already done. But it seems like teams like Orlando should be wary of throwing in long term unprotected firsts.

I don't think you'll want to compare our FO to MIA...they've made mistakes because they've taken swings and have banners to prove it. MIA is NEVER irrelevant and ALWAYS a factor when a good player might be available. I think they blew it ORL style this summer by missing out on both Dame and then Jrue by not throwing in-like they usually do. I'd trade ORL's "lack of bad moves" for their banners any day.

Think about it, even when they have no apparent assets, they seem to be mentioned as buyers How do they do it?

location ,location, location

culture, culture, culture

[JoshuaPotter]

My reading of the tea leaves:

Tea leaves
Exhibit A: Harris lost his starting job and is an expiring with no extension in sight
Exhibit B: Fultz is trending down in MPG and health and is an expiring with no extension in sight
Exhibit C: Cole was extended
Exhibit D: two lotto picks where used on guards
Exhibit E: There is smoke that we are looking to trade Fultz and Harris
Exhibit D: There is smoke we are targeting a veteran PG and shooting

Reading
Harris and Fultz have fallen out of favor and are not in our long-term nor near term plans.

I think there is a greater than 60% probability that one or both are traded at the deadline.

Edit: I think the long-term plan is to transition to Black as the starting PG and Jett as the shooter, but I don't think Fultz and Harris make the cut to bridge the gap and we use resources to bring in those bridges via trades.

I needed to laugh. Also presumably in this scenario somebody is the bench guy of Suggs / Black / Howard.

The problem is, as much as I love Suggs. He has gotten the most well deserved taste of starting guard of any guard on the roster. Yet, Black could surpass him in overall utility, same with Howard if the "effort is there."

I personally like the idea of a future backcourt of
Suggs / Black
Howard / Cole

Even if the narrative is two way too far out there extremes.

As @eyriq has quoted. Keeping all 4 of these players for the next 3 seasons while one of them develops or settles into the role seems unlikely......

[JoshuaPotter]

I don't think you'll want to compare our FO to MIA...they've made mistakes because they've taken swings and have banners to prove it. MIA is NEVER irrelevant and ALWAYS a factor when a good player might be available. I think they blew it ORL style this summer by missing out on both Dame and then Jrue by not throwing in-like they usually do. I'd trade ORL's "lack of bad moves" for their banners any day.

Think about it, even when they have no apparent assets, they seem to be mentioned as buyers How do they do it?

location ,location, location

culture, culture, culture

Both, both, both.

[eyriq]

My reading of the tea leaves:

Tea leaves
Exhibit A: Harris lost his starting job and is an expiring with no extension in sight
Exhibit B: Fultz is trending down in MPG and health and is an expiring with no extension in sight
Exhibit C: Cole was extended
Exhibit D: two lotto picks where used on guards
Exhibit E: There is smoke that we are looking to trade Fultz and Harris
Exhibit D: There is smoke we are targeting a veteran PG and shooting

Reading
Harris and Fultz have fallen out of favor and are not in our long-term nor near term plans.

I think there is a greater than 60% probability that one or both are traded at the deadline.

Edit: I think the long-term plan is to transition to Black as the starting PG and Jett as the shooter, but I don't think Fultz and Harris make the cut to bridge the gap and we use resources to bring in those bridges via trades.

I needed to laugh. Also presumably in this scenario somebody is the bench guy of Suggs / Black / Howard.

The problem is, as much as I love Suggs. He has gotten the most well deserved taste of starting guard of any guard on the roster. Yet, Black could surpass him in overall utility, same with Howard if the "effort is there."

I personally like the idea of a future backcourt of
Suggs / Black
Howard / Cole

Even if the narrative is two way too far out there extremes.

As @eyriq has quoted. Keeping all 4 of these players for the next 3 seasons while one of them develops or settles into the role seems unlikely......

My unconscious is so worried about a Suggs vs Black crisis point that I've begun to nitpick Suggs unfairly. Hopefully an AB/Suggs backboard is indeed viable, I know I'm rooting for it.

[JoshuaPotter]

My reading of the tea leaves:

Tea leaves
Exhibit A: Harris lost his starting job and is an expiring with no extension in sight
Exhibit B: Fultz is trending down in MPG and health and is an expiring with no extension in sight
Exhibit C: Cole was extended
Exhibit D: two lotto picks where used on guards
Exhibit E: There is smoke that we are looking to trade Fultz and Harris
Exhibit D: There is smoke we are targeting a veteran PG and shooting

Reading
Harris and Fultz have fallen out of favor and are not in our long-term nor near term plans.

I think there is a greater than 60% probability that one or both are traded at the deadline.

Edit: I think the long-term plan is to transition to Black as the starting PG and Jett as the shooter, but I don't think Fultz and Harris make the cut to bridge the gap and we use resources to bring in those bridges via trades.

I needed to laugh. Also presumably in this scenario somebody is the bench guy of Suggs / Black / Howard.

The problem is, as much as I love Suggs. He has gotten the most well deserved taste of starting guard of any guard on the roster. Yet, Black could surpass him in overall utility, same with Howard if the "effort is there."

I personally like the idea of a future backcourt of
Suggs / Black
Howard / Cole

Even if the narrative is two way too far out there extremes.

As @eyriq has quoted. Keeping all 4 of these players for the next 3 seasons while one of them develops or settles into the role seems unlikely......

My unconscious is so worried about a Suggs vs Black crisis point that I've begun to nitpick Suggs unfairly. Hopefully an AB/Suggs backboard is indeed viable, I know I'm rooting for it.

We certainly both hope that everyone else is the odd man out. We are both just admitting that is not how it works.

I am salivating at the idea of Suggs + Black + Howard + Cole backcourt. Yes, Suggs plays hard and can get injured as a result but he always bounced back.

Imagine how much different the season goes with a relatively injury free backcourt next season?

[JoshuaPotter]

The other narrative that I still by into is our backcourt is too young with veteran presence and a guard needs to be brought in who is a veteran that can "calm the kids down" and teach them the pace of the NBA game.

[JoshuaPotter]

The info coming out right now about Orlando being interested in a point guard is both obvious and likely just talk. He needs to look like he’s actually doing something, but the chances he pulls the trigger on anything I’ll be surprised.

My thoughts. At best we get an Okeke for future 2nd. Clearing the 3rd string bench spot for Howard.

Maybe, I mean maybe G Harris for something now that a team has watched him play. In theory, G Harris with stable minutes is still a contributing bench player who would wreck a team like us in limited minutes.

Edit : Come to think of it, based on Okeke's last starter stint. I am not sure our GM gets that. Then again, I am not sure he was put into a position where he could succeed. Whatever you think that means.

[eyriq]

Read on Twitter

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[cedric76]

Read on Twitter

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Another reason why our 2024 Frp is a valuable asset

[CocoaFan]

Magic not interested in Murray

You may be right but nobody knew the Magic were interested in Paolo either. Everything with our FO is Top Secret. It would probably take Paolo going in and telling them he really wants to play with Murray.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Read on Twitter

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Another reason why our 2024 Frp is a valuable asset

2024 draft is hella weak (for now) but yeah our pick has more value to others than our already young enough team.

[SOUL]

Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with Knightro that because our FO hasn't made big, splashy moves over the last few years, we'll have literally the same lineup next year too. To be fair, outside of a few tweaks, they've been pretty much correct in retaining a lot of pieces people wanted us to move. I think they kept Gary Harris a year too long and obviously I think Fultz is a goner, also don't think Jett would've played regardless this year but a headscratcher keeping two picks.

That being said, the situation has changed a bit where there is expectation and the team has a winning record the entire year. I don't think they have to make a crazy big trade, but getting better around the edges is imperative.

They can certainly sit on their hands and do nothing, but there has to be some worry about your guards outside of Suggs.

[basketballRob]

Read on Twitter

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Another reason why our 2024 Frp is a valuable asset

2024 draft is hella weak (for now) but yeah our pick has more value to others than our already young enough team.

I've heard a couple of people say that it was weak at the top, but a lot of good players after that.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Skybox]

I don't think you'll want to compare our FO to MIA...they've made mistakes because they've taken swings and have banners to prove it. MIA is NEVER irrelevant and ALWAYS a factor when a good player might be available. I think they blew it ORL style this summer by missing out on both Dame and then Jrue by not throwing in-like they usually do. I'd trade ORL's "lack of bad moves" for their banners any day.

Think about it, even when they have no apparent assets, they seem to be mentioned as buyers How do they do it?

location ,location, location

culture, culture, culture

balls, balls, balls...Riley is on a mission from God. He BELIEVES his manifest destiny is to win every year or die trying.

[CocoaFan]

Magic not interested in grossly overpaying for non-difference-maker talent*

Fixed

Magic easily beats LA's offer without adding Black

Utah Danny probably offered a Sexton-Murray swap.

I strongly suspect the Magic are content with their roster and are more than happy to let it ride, hopefully into the playoffs.

Of course that opens up a whole different can of worms when they head into the offseason with almost $40M coming off the books in free agents (Fultz, Harris, Okeke, Bitadze) and another nearly $40M in team options/non-guaranteed deals (Isaac, Ingles, Moritz, Houstan), but I don't get the sense that Weltman considers that to be as big of a problem as certain fans - myself included - do.

I can't believe the FO is considering re-signing Fultz or Harris in the off season. Letting them expire and not getting anything for them is incompetence. I think they have to make some move. Getting Brogdon or Tyus Jones with expiring's and some low level picks would be a positive. I don't really see any PG FA options out there this summer and the clock is ticking on our cap space with Franz, Jalen, and Paolo extensions coming. I think change is going to have to come through trades. I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

[Skybox]

The other narrative that I still by into is our backcourt is too young with veteran presence and a guard needs to be brought in who is a veteran that can "calm the kids down" and teach them the pace of the NBA game.

I think the skill sets are far more significant than age or maturity/experience. Get somebody that can freakin' shoot basketballs into basketball hoops, from 22 feet away, at an NBA level. Why the ridiculous insistence on developing shooters when we can just go get ones that are already doing it? We find young stars in the draft and hope they pan out - looks like they are. Now surround them with complementary skilled role players - rather than "develop" role players.

[JoshuaPotter]

The other narrative that I still by into is our backcourt is too young with veteran presence and a guard needs to be brought in who is a veteran that can "calm the kids down" and teach them the pace of the NBA game.

I think the skill sets are far more significant than age or maturity/experience. Get somebody that can freakin' shoot basketballs into basketball hoops, from 22 feet away, at an NBA level. Why the ridiculous insistence on developing shooters when we can just go get ones that are already doing it? We find young stars in the draft and hope they pan out - looks like they are. Now surround them with complementary skilled role players - rather than "develop" role players.

This reminds me, my 12 year old is right at 5"9 and my 2 year old is well on his way. Need to get the toddler hoop setup.

"Development".

[flying_mollusk]

The situation with the Heat should be instructive for why you shouldn't make any moves willy nilly or just for the sake of going all in. They gave Charlotte a first round pick that has the potential to be unprotected in 2028, when Butler may be gone. Rozier has played terribly since they got him (obviously could change). Now it is the Heat, so they may have a rebuild already done. But it seems like teams like Orlando should be wary of throwing in long term unprotected firsts.

I don't think you'll want to compare our FO to MIA...they've made mistakes because they've taken swings and have banners to prove it. MIA is NEVER irrelevant and ALWAYS a factor when a good player might be available. I think they blew it ORL style this summer by missing out on both Dame and then Jrue by not throwing in-like they usually do. I'd trade ORL's "lack of bad moves" for their banners any day.

Think about it, even when they have no apparent assets, they seem to be mentioned as buyers How do they do it?

Agreed. I’m basically saying I don’t want us to throw in unprotected firsts because the consequences are worse for the Magic. If we snagged Rozier and he stunk, that would hurt worse for us.

[Skybox]

This feels a bit needlessly argumentative to what we're actually talking about though.

You're are turning this into a much more broad "oh well, of course the front office is not content because they haven't built a title team yet" type of statement, which is fine and not even necessarily inaccurate or wrong, but also kind of irrelevant because we're talking about the here and now considering this is the 2023-2024 trade thread.

Weltman has said quite literally like 20 times over the past two years, basically every time he's made public statements frankly, that the Magic are not going to rush the process or skip steps. On top of that the Magic are also 27-23 through 50 games with a soft and home heavy schedule upcoming.

With those things in mind, it stands to reason - at least to me - that Weltman is very happy and content with where the Magic are *at this point in the process*.

Of course there's more work to be done for the Magic to level up from solid playoff team to team capable of winning multiple playoff series, but I don't see that transition as something that is a priority for Weltman to accomplish at this moment in time.

Because frankly, the moment Weltman actually does push chips into the middle of table and "go for it" the clock actually starts ticking in a tangible way on his ability to build a title contender.

Just my two cents, but Jeff seems perfectly content to just let things play out organically (and continue to have gainful employment without pressure) and not push "all in" until it's absolutely necessary.

This feels needlessly presumptuous.

"content" was your word, not mine.

I guess through a long list of contortions, you can make it mean whatever you want; ultimately, the FO is not content with where the team is at today. No front office would be as the goal of a championship is still a ways away.

I am sure that there is a degree of satisfaction in obtaining 3 stars in 2 drafts, and 1 of those stars appears to have the potential to be a superstar.

When a team has almost no probability of winning a championship, the FO responsibility is to do whatever it takes to make the team better.

When a team is in the Magic's current position there is 1 more responsibility: don't screw up what you have.

Just to jump in here : I agree with both of you to an extent…

Weltman is likely “content” with everything because he’s never been one to make high risk moves. All he needed to see this season with multiple expiring contracts is how much this team has progressed up until this juncture.

Now… is that necessarily the barometer for not making any decisions at this deadline? No, it shouldn’t be. Any of us can tell that he has a lot of work to do in surrounding Paolo/Franz with better talent in this critical timeframe.

The issue is that he doesn’t need to… yet. Why? Because he can just point at this years results compared to previous seasons and say “look how well we are doing with this group when everyone is semi-healthy”. That has been his ongoing talking point forever regardless of how true it really is in relation to future wins.

No, the Orlando Magic aren’t winning a championship.
No, they do not have the assets to land anyone significant.
Yes, the roster is overcrowded and unfinished.

Weltman has shown that he uses every minute of available time before he makes roster decisions. He has no real reason not to other than pissing off a majority of somewhat-aware fans and passing up better offers for diminishing talent. Why? Because why would he care if he still has a job next season. It’s the same reason he didn’t trade Fultz last season at the deadline and why he got absolutely nothing for Ross, Bamba, Fournier, Bol, etc when he had the chance multiple seasons prior.

The info coming out right now about Orlando being interested in a point guard is both obvious and likely just talk. He needs to look like he’s actually doing something, but the chances he pulls the trigger on anything I’ll be surprised.

I could care less about whether Weltman "feels" content or satisfied. He's not shown that he'll be proactive to improve the team. Patience is not the answer to everything - it's just a hard concept to disprove. Trades do not have to equal bad trades. Good trades and FA signings are the only measure of the best GMs. Drafting well with top 10 picks in bunches is nice - but far from certain (as they've shown). Sitting on the sidelines while others teams get better is not something to celebrate. You all may not like MY trades, but I'm not the one getting millions of dollars, unlimited staff, and no higher priorities in my career. Standing pat is inexcusable. Asking me what I'd do is BS - he's supposed to be among the best in the world at this kind of analysis and decision-making...hoping that Anthony Black learns to shoot isn't team-building. Prospects with upside are a very nice thing to have on your two-timeline agenda, but dragging down your stars, regardless of how young they are (or aren't) is foolish. There's a window...If you're lucky enough to have a bigger window, it still doesn't make it okay to waste any of it.