Moderators: Howard Mass, UCF, Knightro, Def Swami, ChosenSavior, UCFJayBird
pepe1991 wrote:Detroit's best center is Duren , and has most upside and most realistic chance at being above average player.
From pure phyiscality perspective, he is on that Dwight level when it comes to freakness of his athletics & mobility for person who is THAT big and THAT strong. Guy is like 19 and his muscles have muscles.
pepe1991 wrote:Detroit's best center is Duren , and has most upside and most realistic chance at being above average player.
From pure phyiscality perspective, he is on that Dwight level when it comes to freakness of his athletics & mobility for person who is THAT big and THAT strong. Guy is like 19 and his muscles have muscles.
Optimus_Steel wrote:pepe1991 wrote:Detroit's best center is Duren , and has most upside and most realistic chance at being above average player.
From pure phyiscality perspective, he is on that Dwight level when it comes to freakness of his athletics & mobility for person who is THAT big and THAT strong. Guy is like 19 and his muscles have muscles.
He has to be older than 19....did he lie about his age?
YosemiteSam wrote:I really am worried about our backup big situation. I expect WCJ to miss his customary 20-ish games or more. I think Mo is a PF and Goga is good for spot minutes but not to start 20 games if we need it. Would it be a good gamble to trade for the “loser” of this backup battle?
I think all of Detroit’s centers are better than our backups while also being younger so there is potential upside. That said both Bagley and Wiseman won’t fetch much in return if they are 3rd string there. Would Okeke and a couple 2nds get it done?
Knightro wrote:Here's another clip of Black throwing up a gross brick and Suggs/Isaac ripping the nets perfectly.
eyriq wrote:Falling under 36 wins would be a bummer. Winning the division would blow my mind.jonbob17 wrote:Magic Season betting Odds
Wins over/under 35.5
Winning the SE division +850
Miami is at 48.5 wins....had they gotten Lillard...sure...but that team is a Butler or Bam injury away from the lottery. We are going to finish ahead of the Heat....Are we going to finish ahead of the Hawks, not sure, but i think we will be close.
Residual-Heat wrote:Bagley's 12 mill/yr for 2 years is a bit too much for a back up center. Wiseman is also making 12 mill next season but atleast he's expiring. They'd be making as much money as WCJ.
I really wanted us to sign Paul Reed, but they didnt. Then I hoped they would atleast sign a cheap athletic project big man like a Moses Brown, but again they didnt. At this point i dont expect them to sign or trade for any back up C, but Biyombo is still available and he'd be an okay addition i guess.
YosemiteSam wrote:
I really am worried about our backup big situation. I expect WCJ to miss his customary 20-ish games or more. I think Mo is a PF and Goga is good for spot minutes but not to start 20 games if we need it. Would it be a good gamble to trade for the “loser” of this backup battle? I think all of Detroit’s centers are better than our backups while also being younger so there is potential upside. That said both Bagley and Wiseman won’t fetch much in return if they are 3rd string there. Would Okeke and a couple 2nds get it done?
Orlando Magic (under 36.5 wins)
I find it almost inconceivable that over/unders project Orlando to have as many or more wins as Toronto next season. I don’t see any way the Magic will score enough points to realistically win nearly half their games, even with the FIBA World Champion Wunderbrothers on their side.
For starters, Orlando’s narrative from last season is pretty solid: Despite being a very young team, the Magic went 29-28 in their final 57 games after a brutal 5-20 start. They might have snagged one or two more wins in the final week if not for the realization that those were must-lose games for their draft lottery hopes; the Magic ended up “beating” Washington and Indiana by a single game in the reverse standings.
Defensively, Orlando has a strong case to be playoff-caliber. If Jonathan Isaac comes back (yeah, I know, but hear me out) and is anything close to his former self, this could be a top-10 outfit on that end. While they were helped by some Jedi 3-point defense last season, Orlando also had a huge possession advantage by forcing turnovers (eighth) and owning the defensive boards (third), and that part should carry over. Guards like Markelle Fultz, Jalen Suggs and rookie Anthony Black are harassing pests at the point of attack, while none of Orlando’s core pieces are a minus on that end except Cole Anthony.
Now … about the offense. The Magic can feel optimistic about their future because they have two very young forwards in Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner who already showcase advanced shot-creation skills.
Unfortunately, they’re not quite at the level of being guys you give the ball to and get out of the way; they’re good, but it would be a surprise if either made the All-Star team this year. Moreover, each ends up having to do too much right now because the backcourt is so incredibly underskilled. It’s one thing to say your 6-foot-9 guy has guard-like skills; it’s another to actually have him playing point guard.
Aside from Anthony, Orlando’s guards are neither spacers nor creators. Fultz, Suggs and Black all are shooting liabilities, to say the least; Banchero is, at this point, a below-average shooter, and nobody the Magic play is all that concerned about Wendell Carter Jr. firing away from distance either. Additionally, which guard on this team do you feel good about running a pick-and-roll? Anthony with the second unit, maybe?
Orlando was so desperate for shooting in 2022-23 that it played Terrence Ross 22 minutes a game until Gary Harris returned and settled things down by erupting for 43.1 percent shooting from 3. That was an outlier, obviously, but more worryingly, there isn’t anybody else who is a deep threat. Harris and Wagner are the only ones of the 12 returning main roster players with career 3-point shooting marks above the very modest bar of 35 percent. The Magic were 22nd in 3-point frequency and 24th in accuracy last year, and even that felt borderline miraculous; they needed Harris and Mo Bamba to clear 40 percent to get there.
The Magic tried to address the shooting in the offseason by adding Joe Ingles and reaching for (er..drafting) Jett Howard, but both figure to be secondary players in this team’s rotation mix.
The biggest threat to my under call is that Orlando pushes in some chips on a win-now trade, which is possible given the surfeit of expiring contracts and young players. (Malcolm Brogdon would fit nicely, I must say.) However, as with the Thunder above, that moment still feels a year away.
In terms of, shall we say, other incentives, this isn’t perceived as a particularly strong draft, and the Magic have done enough losing already, so I don’t see them going into a Blazer-esque tank mode. They could lightly ease off on the throttle in the last week or two if they’re eliminated from the Play-In, though. I doubt that will matter; I think the Magic will have such a tough time scoring that they won’t get to 37 even if they sprint through the tape.
YosemiteSam wrote:Hollinger at The Athletic is posting his preseason predictions, and today he posted the 5 teams most likely to fall short of expectations as measured by Vegas Over/Unders on wins. Guess who made the list? Now I know we are up and coming because there is value in calling us overrated.
The 5 he predicted fall short are the Suns, Kings, Thunder, Magic and Bulls. His overachievers are the Raptors, Grizzlies, Nets, Rockets, and Hornets. Again this is based on Vegas expectations, not overall quality.
Also did NOT appreciate the gratuitous dig at the Jett Howard selection
Article LinkOrlando Magic (under 36.5 wins)
I find it almost inconceivable that over/unders project Orlando to have as many or more wins as Toronto next season. I don’t see any way the Magic will score enough points to realistically win nearly half their games, even with the FIBA World Champion Wunderbrothers on their side.
For starters, Orlando’s narrative from last season is pretty solid: Despite being a very young team, the Magic went 29-28 in their final 57 games after a brutal 5-20 start. They might have snagged one or two more wins in the final week if not for the realization that those were must-lose games for their draft lottery hopes; the Magic ended up “beating” Washington and Indiana by a single game in the reverse standings.
Defensively, Orlando has a strong case to be playoff-caliber. If Jonathan Isaac comes back (yeah, I know, but hear me out) and is anything close to his former self, this could be a top-10 outfit on that end. While they were helped by some Jedi 3-point defense last season, Orlando also had a huge possession advantage by forcing turnovers (eighth) and owning the defensive boards (third), and that part should carry over. Guards like Markelle Fultz, Jalen Suggs and rookie Anthony Black are harassing pests at the point of attack, while none of Orlando’s core pieces are a minus on that end except Cole Anthony.
Now … about the offense. The Magic can feel optimistic about their future because they have two very young forwards in Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner who already showcase advanced shot-creation skills.
Unfortunately, they’re not quite at the level of being guys you give the ball to and get out of the way; they’re good, but it would be a surprise if either made the All-Star team this year. Moreover, each ends up having to do too much right now because the backcourt is so incredibly underskilled. It’s one thing to say your 6-foot-9 guy has guard-like skills; it’s another to actually have him playing point guard.
Aside from Anthony, Orlando’s guards are neither spacers nor creators. Fultz, Suggs and Black all are shooting liabilities, to say the least; Banchero is, at this point, a below-average shooter, and nobody the Magic play is all that concerned about Wendell Carter Jr. firing away from distance either. Additionally, which guard on this team do you feel good about running a pick-and-roll? Anthony with the second unit, maybe?
Orlando was so desperate for shooting in 2022-23 that it played Terrence Ross 22 minutes a game until Gary Harris returned and settled things down by erupting for 43.1 percent shooting from 3. That was an outlier, obviously, but more worryingly, there isn’t anybody else who is a deep threat. Harris and Wagner are the only ones of the 12 returning main roster players with career 3-point shooting marks above the very modest bar of 35 percent. The Magic were 22nd in 3-point frequency and 24th in accuracy last year, and even that felt borderline miraculous; they needed Harris and Mo Bamba to clear 40 percent to get there.
The Magic tried to address the shooting in the offseason by adding Joe Ingles and reaching for (er..drafting) Jett Howard, but both figure to be secondary players in this team’s rotation mix.
The biggest threat to my under call is that Orlando pushes in some chips on a win-now trade, which is possible given the surfeit of expiring contracts and young players. (Malcolm Brogdon would fit nicely, I must say.) However, as with the Thunder above, that moment still feels a year away.
In terms of, shall we say, other incentives, this isn’t perceived as a particularly strong draft, and the Magic have done enough losing already, so I don’t see them going into a Blazer-esque tank mode. They could lightly ease off on the throttle in the last week or two if they’re eliminated from the Play-In, though. I doubt that will matter; I think the Magic will have such a tough time scoring that they won’t get to 37 even if they sprint through the tape.
I don't disagree with much that he says. I suspect we'll be a bottom ten offense, mainly due to how poor our back court is on offense. If our defense can't crack the top 10 we are guaranteed a losing season I think.YosemiteSam wrote:Hollinger at The Athletic is posting his preseason predictions, and today he posted the 5 teams most likely to fall short of expectations as measured by Vegas Over/Unders on wins. Guess who made the list? Now I know we are up and coming because there is value in calling us overrated.
The 5 he predicted fall short are the Suns, Kings, Thunder, Magic and Bulls. His overachievers are the Raptors, Grizzlies, Nets, Rockets, and Hornets. Again this is based on Vegas expectations, not overall quality.
Also did NOT appreciate the gratuitous dig at the Jett Howard selection
Article LinkOrlando Magic (under 36.5 wins)
I find it almost inconceivable that over/unders project Orlando to have as many or more wins as Toronto next season. I don’t see any way the Magic will score enough points to realistically win nearly half their games, even with the FIBA World Champion Wunderbrothers on their side.
For starters, Orlando’s narrative from last season is pretty solid: Despite being a very young team, the Magic went 29-28 in their final 57 games after a brutal 5-20 start. They might have snagged one or two more wins in the final week if not for the realization that those were must-lose games for their draft lottery hopes; the Magic ended up “beating” Washington and Indiana by a single game in the reverse standings.
Defensively, Orlando has a strong case to be playoff-caliber. If Jonathan Isaac comes back (yeah, I know, but hear me out) and is anything close to his former self, this could be a top-10 outfit on that end. While they were helped by some Jedi 3-point defense last season, Orlando also had a huge possession advantage by forcing turnovers (eighth) and owning the defensive boards (third), and that part should carry over. Guards like Markelle Fultz, Jalen Suggs and rookie Anthony Black are harassing pests at the point of attack, while none of Orlando’s core pieces are a minus on that end except Cole Anthony.
Now … about the offense. The Magic can feel optimistic about their future because they have two very young forwards in Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner who already showcase advanced shot-creation skills.
Unfortunately, they’re not quite at the level of being guys you give the ball to and get out of the way; they’re good, but it would be a surprise if either made the All-Star team this year. Moreover, each ends up having to do too much right now because the backcourt is so incredibly underskilled. It’s one thing to say your 6-foot-9 guy has guard-like skills; it’s another to actually have him playing point guard.
Aside from Anthony, Orlando’s guards are neither spacers nor creators. Fultz, Suggs and Black all are shooting liabilities, to say the least; Banchero is, at this point, a below-average shooter, and nobody the Magic play is all that concerned about Wendell Carter Jr. firing away from distance either. Additionally, which guard on this team do you feel good about running a pick-and-roll? Anthony with the second unit, maybe?
Orlando was so desperate for shooting in 2022-23 that it played Terrence Ross 22 minutes a game until Gary Harris returned and settled things down by erupting for 43.1 percent shooting from 3. That was an outlier, obviously, but more worryingly, there isn’t anybody else who is a deep threat. Harris and Wagner are the only ones of the 12 returning main roster players with career 3-point shooting marks above the very modest bar of 35 percent. The Magic were 22nd in 3-point frequency and 24th in accuracy last year, and even that felt borderline miraculous; they needed Harris and Mo Bamba to clear 40 percent to get there.
The Magic tried to address the shooting in the offseason by adding Joe Ingles and reaching for (er..drafting) Jett Howard, but both figure to be secondary players in this team’s rotation mix.
The biggest threat to my under call is that Orlando pushes in some chips on a win-now trade, which is possible given the surfeit of expiring contracts and young players. (Malcolm Brogdon would fit nicely, I must say.) However, as with the Thunder above, that moment still feels a year away.
In terms of, shall we say, other incentives, this isn’t perceived as a particularly strong draft, and the Magic have done enough losing already, so I don’t see them going into a Blazer-esque tank mode. They could lightly ease off on the throttle in the last week or two if they’re eliminated from the Play-In, though. I doubt that will matter; I think the Magic will have such a tough time scoring that they won’t get to 37 even if they sprint through the tape.
