Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.)

Post #1321 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 4:43 pm

tiderulz wrote:
PeePee la Fritz wrote:
Bobby Ray wrote:Just wondering anyone here think we should trade Afflalo at the deadline?

I'd be ok with trading any player on this team for the right package.

this.

OrlChamps2030 · Post #1322 » by **OrlChamps2030** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 5:04 pm

What do you guys think about this trade? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cy299ee

Why for the Magic: Magic get a very athletic rookie SG with a nice shooting stroke. I think Ross and Harkless would compliment each other very nicely in the future. Solidifies youth at a position we are lacking in youth. Magic shed a year of off Affalo's contract for Amir Johnson. He is a better first big off the bench than Ayon (younger too). Frees up logjam at SG.

Why for the Raptors: Raptors are desperate for talent on the wings. Affalo would fit exactly what they need (decent two-way starting SG). Raptors traded away their draft pick and have a lot of big contracts, this is a win-now move that would help them. Affalo is locked up on a reasonable contract. Trading away Johnson frees up more minutes for Val and Ed Davis.

OrlChamps2030 · Post #1323 » by **OrlChamps2030** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 5:34 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHUcyFQvmo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQfriGLkao[/youtube]

Shot 37% from 3 in college too.. He is also 6"7. Him and Harkless playing together

londoncollin · Post #1324 » by **londoncollin** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 6:29 pm

Can't see the Raptors giving up both those guys for Affalo.

Then again, the Raptors did draft Ross at 8 when they could have traded down and still go him+something else. And signed Fields to that contract. And traded their first.

arkknight1988 · Post #1325 » by **arkknight1988** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 7:15 pm

i've heard rumblings from bulls insiders of jj+baby for boozer+picks

Optimus_Steel · Post #1326 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 7:27 pm

IDK why Bulls would do that since they can amnesty Boozer.

Post #1327 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 7:45 pm

arkknight1988 wrote:i've heard rumblings from bulls insiders of jj+baby for boozer+picks

?

That's not a bad deal for us if those picks are Charlotte's and their own. I dislike Boozer, but I think a contender would take a chance on him in the expiring year of his contract.

Edit: Protection on that Charlotte pick is rougher than I thought.

Cigamodnalro · Post #1328 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 7:55 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:IDK why Bulls would do that since they can amnesty Boozer.

CHI is a notoriously cheap organization.

If were taking Boozer's albatross deal, and trading anything more than Turkoglu and Davis (e.g. including Redick or other expirings), I would expect the 2013 CHI pick, the future CHA pick, and Marquis Teague as well, and that's at bare minimum.

Post #1329 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 8:17 pm

I'd be more inclined to do a deal with OKC sending them Afflalo and Big Baby for Perkins, TOR pick, and Lamb.

Cigamodnalro · Post #1330 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 8:42 pm

VGOSWAMI wrote:I'd be more inclined to do a deal with OKC sending them Afflalo and Big Baby for Perkins, TOR pick, and Lamb.

Would you do it without one of the TOR pick or Lamb? Not sure OKC entertains the trade at all, but I'd be surprised if we got both of those assets?

Afflalo/Davis
TOR pick/Perkins contract

arkknight1988 · Post #1331 » by **arkknight1988** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 8:47 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
VGOSWAMI wrote:I'd be more inclined to do a deal with OKC sending them Afflalo and Big Baby for Perkins, TOR pick, and Lamb.

Would you do it without one of the TOR pick or Lamb? Not sure OKC entertains the trade at all, but I'd be surprised if we got both of those assets?

Afflalo/Davis
TOR pick/Perkins contract

or afflalo/mcrob for Kmart/Lamb

thelead · Post #1332 » by **thelead** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 8:57 pm

Why would OKC want another SG? Martin is balling and they still have Thabo. If they are trying to dump Perkins they would want our TPE or an expiring.

dsg2021 · Post #1333 » by **dsg2021** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 9:07 pm

That TOR pick or any lotto pick is probably target #1. Especially with the excellent role players we have for OKC. Afflalo or JJ with Goose is pretty huge off the bat. TPE Perks and 1-2 more. Ibaka plays a few more minutes he should've been playing anyways. It's a better deal with a better guess at TOR's spot and the Magic's draft targets. If the Magic think this draft is so weak to next ones tho, maybe they hold off on a big deal like that IMO.

The other idea I'm liking lately is a deal like JJ or Afflalo for Bledsoe, Butler and 1-2 1st rounders. It's nothing inventive as Bledsoe comes up a lot in trade ideas but I think he might be a real PG to slot as a starter for years. Grant Hill, Matt Barnes man the new SF as capably as Butler did while JJ/Afflalo seriously upgrade a SG position while Jamal and Billups keep a deadly effective backup tandem (or Billups starts and JJ/Afflalo play SF/6th man with Jamal.). Magic get Bledsoe huge minutes off the bat and start to see some big games before seeing where he needs to improve and peak at (likely a starter IMO); with 1-2 picks added to the team. A Homerun deal is Butler or Odom to Turk or Harrington when they see it as an upgrade. We take Bledsoe for that and maybe give up a 22+ only draft pick, saving JJ and Afflalo for a lotto pick deal in the stronger 2014 draft.

Post #1334 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 9:53 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
VGOSWAMI wrote:I'd be more inclined to do a deal with OKC sending them Afflalo and Big Baby for Perkins, TOR pick, and Lamb.

Would you do it without one of the TOR pick or Lamb? Not sure OKC entertains the trade at all, but I'd be surprised if we got both of those assets?

Afflalo/Davis
TOR pick/Perkins contract

I think they do it if they're in the win-now mode that they seem to be in. Lamb isn't a factor for them at the moment, the Toronto pick could produce a good player but would require development like Lamb, and they'll welcome anyone to take Perkins off their hands. They get 2 guys that would make them the ultimate contenders in the West with the experience they're looking for. The Perkins contract is pretty hefty and I'd want Lamb and the pick to counteract the burden of taking on Perkins. Perkins is a pretty useless player on offense and his defense is overrated. OKC can get 2 quality guys that will help them contend over the next 4-5 years as opposed to waiting to reap the rewards of Lamb and the TOR pick.

I expect OKC to deal their pick and/or Lamb by the deadline. I don't see how Lamb fits in with the team with K-Mart there and I think they want to win now. And they can garner some pretty good players with those assets. Afflalo on that team would flourish. Think of Sefalosha with offense.

Westbrook/Maynor
Afflalo/K-Mart
Durant/Thabo
Davis/Collison
Ibaka/Thabeet

Cigamodnalro · Post #1335 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 10:45 pm

I'd love for that to happen, but still think a few issues remain
* OKC won't want Ibaka as its starting center. Not in the WCF against Dwight
* BBD is not a starting-caliber player for an NBA contender. When we were a top team (*whistfully remembers*), BBD was a bench player. Same in regards to Boston. Davis is a valuable role player, in many circumstances, but he shouldn't be starting for the Thunder
* Thabo (who they like) goes from 1st string to 3rd string with the trade
* They can probably get us to sign off on the deal only offering one of their two assets. Would you really turn down Perkins/2013 #3 pick for Afflalo and Glen Davis. Probably not, and I'm sure Presti knows it.
* I'd venture they want a center in return. KP is a shell of what he used to be, and doesn't even begin to deserve his contract, but he's still a big defensively-oriented body with experience and attitude. That's important to a contender. Would they ask for Vucevic in the trade? Would you comply if it meant getting Lamb and the TOR pick? Vuc/Redick/Davis for the package?

Post #1336 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 10:59 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:I'd love for that to happen, but still think a few issues remain
* OKC won't want Ibaka as its starting center. Not in the WCF against Dwight
* BBD is not a starting-caliber player for an NBA contender. When we were a top team (*whistfully remembers*), BBD was a bench player. Same in regards to Boston. Davis is a valuable role player, in many circumstances, but he shouldn't be starting for the Thunder
* Thabo (who they like) goes from 1st string to 3rd string with the trade
* They can probably get us to sign off on the deal only offering one of their two assets. Would you really turn down Perkins/2013 #3 pick for Afflalo and Glen Davis. Probably not, and I'm sure Presti knows it.
* I'd venture they want a center in return. KP is a shell of what he used to be, and doesn't even begin to deserve his contract, but he's still a big defensively-oriented body with experience and attitude. That's important to a contender. Would they ask for Vucevic in the trade? Would you comply if it meant getting Lamb and the TOR pick? Vuc/Redick/Davis for the package?

I do think that OKC would want a center in return. I cannot dispute that. But, I think Big Baby is a starting caliber PF on a contending team, especially like OKC where his role is reduced to defending, rebounding, and pick n' roll plays. And, Thabo could be moved to small forward as a member of the 2nd unit.

And, I'm not sure I'd do those deals instantly. I'd survey the market first and wait to see how bad Toronto is come trade deadline. Last year, Portland pulled the 6th pick for Gerald Wallace, while also taking on Mehmet Okur's contract from the Nets. I think I'd look to get a steal like that using just one of our players, which is why I'm hesitant to give both Big Baby and Afflalo or JJ. It was a steal of a trade for Portland, and we may not find a sucker like they did. At which point, I'd settle for your trade.

magicman123 · Post #1337 » by **magicman123** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 11:06 pm

Afflalo would be a perfect fit in OKC, not sure about Ibaka playing center for the long haul..i would love that toronto pick but its not happening

Cigamodnalro · Post #1338 » by **Cigamodnalro** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 11:06 pm

VGOSWAMI wrote:
Cigamodnalro wrote:I'd love for that to happen, but still think a few issues remain
* OKC won't want Ibaka as its starting center. Not in the WCF against Dwight
* BBD is not a starting-caliber player for an NBA contender. When we were a top team (*whistfully remembers*), BBD was a bench player. Same in regards to Boston. Davis is a valuable role player, in many circumstances, but he shouldn't be starting for the Thunder
* Thabo (who they like) goes from 1st string to 3rd string with the trade
* They can probably get us to sign off on the deal only offering one of their two assets. Would you really turn down Perkins/2013 #3 pick for Afflalo and Glen Davis. Probably not, and I'm sure Presti knows it.
* I'd venture they want a center in return. KP is a shell of what he used to be, and doesn't even begin to deserve his contract, but he's still a big defensively-oriented body with experience and attitude. That's important to a contender. Would they ask for Vucevic in the trade? Would you comply if it meant getting Lamb and the TOR pick? Vuc/Redick/Davis for the package?

I'm not sure I'd do those deals instantly. I'd wait to see how bad Toronto is come trade deadline.

Well if pick is T2, Toronto keeps it this year. That's almost better, since it'd be more valuable if pushed to 2014 anyway.

Post #1339 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Dec 2, 2012 11:16 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
VGOSWAMI wrote:
Cigamodnalro wrote:I'd love for that to happen, but still think a few issues remain
* OKC won't want Ibaka as its starting center. Not in the WCF against Dwight
* BBD is not a starting-caliber player for an NBA contender. When we were a top team (*whistfully remembers*), BBD was a bench player. Same in regards to Boston. Davis is a valuable role player, in many circumstances, but he shouldn't be starting for the Thunder
* Thabo (who they like) goes from 1st string to 3rd string with the trade
* They can probably get us to sign off on the deal only offering one of their two assets. Would you really turn down Perkins/2013 #3 pick for Afflalo and Glen Davis. Probably not, and I'm sure Presti knows it.
* I'd venture they want a center in return. KP is a shell of what he used to be, and doesn't even begin to deserve his contract, but he's still a big defensively-oriented body with experience and attitude. That's important to a contender. Would they ask for Vucevic in the trade? Would you comply if it meant getting Lamb and the TOR pick? Vuc/Redick/Davis for the package?

I'm not sure I'd do those deals instantly. I'd wait to see how bad Toronto is come trade deadline.

Well if pick is T2, Toronto keeps it this year. That's almost better, since it'd be more valuable if pushed to 2014 anyway.

Sorry Cig, didn't get to finish all my thoughts in the previous post before I edited it. But, you make a good point. Which is why I'd see how bad they are and assess where the odds of the pick falling this year and/or next year would be. I'd much rather have a lottery pick in 2014 or even a top 5 pick this year as opposed to a Mid to late lottery pick this year. If that makes sense.

dsg2021 · Post #1340 » by **dsg2021** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 5:19 am

Alrite, that was the first game by Vuc that made me think we got a C. I don't think it would stop the Magic from drafting one of those top 10 C's in the draft if they can and it's BPA, but Vuc could be a Magic man long term.

O'Quinn played very well as well, with being foul-prone the only blemish. Seems like he might have temporarily taken Goose's spot.