Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

[ezzzp]

Room exception if you're under the cap. If we retain Ross, Birch, MCW, Jefferson, Caupain we'll be at the cap and can use MLE.

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That's still a lottery team...do you think that adding a $9.2m player instead of a $4.6m dollar player is the difference?

It changes nothing...actually doing those moves make it more of a clear indicator its a tank.

Also, no way Ross signs up for that. He's already stated that he's waiting for Vuc to make his decision. He's gone the second Vuc leaves.

[basketballRob]

Room exception if you're under the cap. If we retain Ross, Birch, MCW, Jefferson, Caupain we'll be at the cap and can use MLE.

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That's still a lottery team...do you think that adding a $9.2m player instead of a $4.6m dollar player is the difference?

It changes nothing...actually doing those moves make it more of a clear indicator its a tank.

Also, no way Ross signs up for that. He's already stated that he's waiting for Vuc to make his decision. He's gone the second Vuc leaves.

Where does it say Ross decision is going to be based on what Vuc does?

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[ezzzp]

No players are going to line up to play with Vuc. If Vuc stays or goes probably won't sway Ross decision one way or the other.

Off the top of my head I think we could retain Ross and Birch then still have the 9.5m MLE.

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Ross literally stated on camera that he was going to wait and see what Vucevic does. His decision is absolutely swayed by Vucevic's decision. He's out the door the second Vuc doesn't get resigned.

[basketballRob]

No players are going to line up to play with Vuc. If Vuc stays or goes probably won't sway Ross decision one way or the other.

Off the top of my head I think we could retain Ross and Birch then still have the 9.5m MLE.

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Ross literally stated on camera that he was going to wait and see what Vucevic does. His decision is absolutely swayed by Vucevic's decision.

I didn't see that. You're probably exaggerating.


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[ezzzp]

Room exception if you're under the cap. If we retain Ross, Birch, MCW, Jefferson, Caupain we'll be at the cap and can use MLE.

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That's still a lottery team...do you think that adding a $9.2m player instead of a $4.6m dollar player is the difference?

It changes nothing...actually doing those moves make it more of a clear indicator its a tank.

Also, no way Ross signs up for that. He's already stated that he's waiting for Vuc to make his decision. He's gone the second Vuc leaves.

Where does it say Ross decision is going to be based on what Vuc does?

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It came directly from Ross' mouth. He literally said he was waiting on Vuc's decision in an interview at the end of the season. He knows what this turns into...he's gone if Vuc is gone.

[basketballRob]

That's still a lottery team...do you think that adding a $9.2m player instead of a $4.6m dollar player is the difference?

It changes nothing...actually doing those moves make it more of a clear indicator its a tank.

Also, no way Ross signs up for that. He's already stated that he's waiting for Vuc to make his decision. He's gone the second Vuc leaves.

Where does it say Ross decision is going to be based on what Vuc does?

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It came directly from Ross' mouth. He literally said he was waiting on Vuc's decision in an interview at the end of the season. He knows what this turns into...he's gone if Vuc is gone.

Yeah he knows we'll have more money if Vuc is gone. It'll be tricky to keep both.

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[ezzzp]

Where does it say Ross decision is going to be based on what Vuc does?

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It came directly from Ross' mouth. He literally said he was waiting on Vuc's decision in an interview at the end of the season. He knows what this turns into...he's gone if Vuc is gone.

Yeah he knows we'll have more money if Vuc is gone. It'll be tricky to keep both.

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lol no... his $ isn’t based on cap space opening up- he’s got bird rights - he’s not in denial of what happens to the team if they lose their best player, he’s out asap

[Skin]

I think it's pretty gullible to believe everything that players say at their exit interviews with the media. It's a pressured situation with local beat writers and it occurs at a time when the losing wounds are fresh. On top of all that, it leaves no room for them to change their minds and that is simply not reality. People change their minds all the time... the NBA landscape is too fluid, even if what was said was his real feelings at the time.

[basketballRob]

It came directly from Ross' mouth. He literally said he was waiting on Vuc's decision in an interview at the end of the season. He knows what this turns into...he's gone if Vuc is gone.

Yeah he knows we'll have more money if Vuc is gone. It'll be tricky to keep both.

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lol no... his $ isn’t based on cap space opening up- he’s got bird rights - he’s not in denial of what happens to the team if they lose their best player, he’s out asap

I know how it works and that they have a tax threshold. If you gave Ross and Vuc a raise it'll be hard to sign the rest of the players and a MLE. If you just signed Ross you could sign everyone and have the MLE.

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[ezzzp]

No players are going to line up to play with Vuc. If Vuc stays or goes probably won't sway Ross decision one way or the other.

Off the top of my head I think we could retain Ross and Birch then still have the 9.5m MLE.

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Ross literally stated on camera that he was going to wait and see what Vucevic does. His decision is absolutely swayed by Vucevic's decision.

I didn't see that. You're probably exaggerating.


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believe what you want- it’s not changing he said it ...video is probably up somewhere - research it

[ezzzp]

Yeah he knows we'll have more money if Vuc is gone. It'll be tricky to keep both.

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lol no... his $ isn’t based on cap space opening up- he’s got bird rights - he’s not in denial of what happens to the team if they lose their best player, he’s out asap

I know how it works and that they have a tax threshold. If you gave Ross and Vuc a raise it'll be hard to sign the rest of the players and a MLE. If you just signed Ross you could sign everyone and have the MLE.

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sign what rest? Caupain and jefferson? if they sign vuc then birch is gone - who are the magic having trouble re-signing

[basketballRob]

lol no... his $ isn’t based on cap space opening up- he’s got bird rights - he’s not in denial of what happens to the team if they lose their best player, he’s out asap

I know how it works and that they have a tax threshold. If you gave Ross and Vuc a raise it'll be hard to sign the rest of the players and a MLE. If you just signed Ross you could sign everyone and have the MLE.

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sign what rest? Caupain and jefferson? lol if they sign vuc then birch is gone - who are the magic having trouble re-signing

Yeah you're probably not going to be able to keep Birch or add anyone with the MLE.

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[ezzzp]

Yeah you're probably not going to be able to keep Birch or add anyone with the MLE.

What amount is your match limit for Birch as he’s a RFA?

Only way I see Magic using MLE is if they sign Vuc but Ross goes elsewhere. Even then they might not and find shooting in draft for cheap.

So far this FO have used small part of MLE to sign their 2nd rounders as a way to increase option flexibility in their contracts. The first year they used half of it to sign Simmons. They haven’t spent all the MLE just because they had it.

[basketballRob]

sign what rest? Caupain and jefferson? lol if they sign vuc then birch is gone - who are the magic having trouble re-signing

Yeah you're probably not going to be able to keep Birch or add anyone with the MLE.

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What amount is your match limit for Birch as he’s a RFA?

Only way I see Magic using MLE is if they sign Vuc but Ross goes elsewhere. Even then they might not and find shooting in draft for cheap.

So far this FO have used small part of MLE to sign their 2nd rounders as a way to increase option flexibility in their contracts. The first year they used half of it to sign Simmons. They haven’t spent all the MLE just because they had it.

If we sign Vuc to 25m a year we probably won't be able to keep Ross, Birch, or use the MLE. If we sign Ross we'll be able to keep Birch and use at least part of the MLE.

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[Ducklett]

Explain how...here is your starting point:

DJ/Fultz
Fournier/Frazier
Gordon/Iwundu
Isaac/?
Birch/Bamba/Mozgov

+ #16 and $17.7m in cap space...$27.7m if you stretch Mozgov.

Whose your primary scorer? hell, whose your secondary scorer? What FA is signing to that situation that fixes it?

Plus sign Ross, MCW, and the MLE.

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Nope.

Signing Ross eats up most of the cap space and MCW eats the rest PLUS you don't get the MLE once you are under the cap. You only get the $4.6m Room Exception. So your team moving forward is:

DJ/Fultz/MCW
Fournier/Ross/Frazier
Gordon/Iwundu
Isaac/?
Birch/Bamba/Mozgov

+ #16 and $4.6m Room Exception

That's a high lottery team....AND Ross isn't very likely to sign if Vuc leaves, so that's far fetched anyhow

A lot of you guys' logic doesn't check out. If the team you are linking as "garbage" is in fact garbage, than we have a bad team and need to make big changes/tank. But putting Vuc and "garbage" together in your minds some how makes a god-tier playoff team, you really should take a few steps back and realize how ridiculous that sounds.

[ezzzp]

Yeah you're probably not going to be able to keep Birch or add anyone with the MLE.

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What amount is your match limit for Birch as he’s a RFA?

Only way I see Magic using MLE is if they sign Vuc but Ross goes elsewhere. Even then they might not and find shooting in draft for cheap.

So far this FO have used small part of MLE to sign their 2nd rounders as a way to increase option flexibility in their contracts. The first year they used half of it to sign Simmons. They haven’t spent all the MLE just because they had it.

If we sign Vuc to 25m a year we probably won't be able to keep Ross, Birch, or use the MLE. If we sign Ross we'll be able to keep Birch and use at least part of the MLE.

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Re-signing Ross without Vucevic is very unlikely. Even if you blow off his own words- if you step back and ask - why he would re-sign with a clear lottery team through his prime?

He never chose to sign with Orlando- he has no local ties prior to trade. He went from a contender (now a championship team) to a lottery team. Now on 3d year team is finally starting to come out of hole riding on Vucevic. You are telling me that looks like a situation he goes back to without Vucevic?

Plus Weltman FO already traded him once- he has no reason to have any loyalty to city, franchise or FO.



He’s going to have offers from numerous good teams - already there are rumblings that Philly, Dallas, LAL, Indiana and others are looking at him...but somehow he chooses the Magic without their best player? It makes no sense.

[MagicFan101]

No players are going to line up to play with Vuc. If Vuc stays or goes probably won't sway Ross decision one way or the other.

Off the top of my head I think we could retain Ross and Birch then still have the 9.5m MLE.

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Ross literally stated on camera that he was going to wait and see what Vucevic does. His decision is absolutely swayed by Vucevic's decision.

I didn't see that. You're probably exaggerating.


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ezzzp exaggerating the importance of keeping Vuc!? Well I never heard such nonsense!

[ezzzp]

A lot of you guys' logic doesn't check out. If the team you are linking as "garbage" is in fact garbage, than we have a bad team and need to make big changes/tank. But putting Vuc and "garbage" together in your minds some how makes a god-tier playoff team, you really should take a few steps back and realize how ridiculous that sounds.

Nah...you are confusing a young team in development as that somehow meaning it’s trash. That’s absolutely not the situation.

Some just understand that the best and most proven method for player developmental is for them to play in a competitive winning context. That’s the philosophy of the best player development franchises.

On top of that, that context also happens to be the best way to maintain value (and in some cases improve) value of ALL your assets.

That allows team best option to use ALL methods of improvement: draft/development, free agency, and trade. Instead of the reckless tank gamble...that usually just ends in treadmill bottom dwelling.

[KillMonger]

this is hilarious man, in every way i can think with no Vuc or Ross we are definitely a lottery team. I think i saw a stat that basically said Vuc was good for about 14 wins by himself. My issue is that some people around here seem to be triggered that we play through Vuc and yet not seem to realize that playing through Vuc is our best way to play. It's not Vuc's fault that the other players isn't stepping up, they're just not at that level yet where they can be consistent like Vuc can. You take away Vuc and ross and then what? we have to rely on Fournier for scoring and playmaking? DJ Augustine? AG? the magical mystical Free Agent that we're somehow going to land and is going to turn us around overnight? give me a break man

People say, "Let vuc walk and sure we'll take a step back for now but it's better for the future" How do you know that? How long is that "step back" going to be? 3 years? 5? Please believe that without vuc and ross our team falls apart, no playoffs, no free agents but hey we will be in the lottery for sure though i guess that's good. After 7 years of rebuilding, seeing coaches come and go i'm done with rebuilding and being a trash team. I've done my time man, i'm out and i'm not going back, Finally got a culture change and now people want to shake it up and erase it like an etch-a-sketch

[VFX]

A lot of you guys' logic doesn't check out. If the team you are linking as "garbage" is in fact garbage, than we have a bad team and need to make big changes/tank. But putting Vuc and "garbage" together in your minds some how makes a god-tier playoff team, you really should take a few steps back and realize how ridiculous that sounds.

Nah...you are confusing a young team in development as that somehow meaning it’s trash. That’s absolutely not the situation.

Some just understand that the best and most proven method for player developmental is for them to play in a competitive winning context. That’s the philosophy of the best player development franchises.

On top of that, that context also happens to be the best way to maintain value (and in some cases improve) value of ALL your assets.

That allows team best option to use ALL methods of improvement: draft/development, free agency, and trade. Instead of the reckless tank gamble...that usually just ends in treadmill bottom dwelling.

Yeah except you believe this “young team in development” is completely incapable of doing anything themselves without Vucevic carrying them for 3+ seasons after being in Orlando already for 7 years.

It’s not a “reckless tank gamble” just because you don’t believe fielding a team without spending $20+m is an overspend for lacking options.

“Context” to you is either barely missing or barely making the playoffs and being satisfied with Vuc being a fringe allstar as Orlando’s only silver lining. That line of thinking is why Orlando is satisfied with mediocrity.