The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[Residual-Heat]

All things considered, ill take Monk over Simons.

[AaronB]

That’s a ridiculous way to manage your cap…just add for inflation? This is my point, you can’t just arbitrarily pay what you think guys are worth or you’ll have 9 guys on your roster when you hit the cap

Besides…Simons is double the points, double the assists, half the defense…and the least expensive.

The only thing ridiculous is you thinking that a union run operation like the nba would be managed any other way.

If you think Simons is half the defender of Suggs, you have never seen him play. He is like 1 twentieth the defender as Suggs. To call him a traffic cone gives traffic cones a bad name. The Blazers actually have a better record with him hurt.

What on Earth does the players union have to do with what guys are paid beyond the minimum vet guarantees based on years in the league? Are you one of those guys that just arbitrarily blames “the damn unions” for any economic issues you don’t understand?

Simons defense must be awful or he’d be making $40m based on his offense. Defense is great but glorifying a locker room full of guards that can’t put up 10ppg is a very low ceiling for winning. Suggs is a great defender and his offense is just good…he and Simons would complete each other. I would consider them somewhat equivalent value, but you can’t simply dismiss scoring.

No, I am not anti-union.

However, I do understand, unlike you, that by the labor agreement, there is a maximum that a player can make based on years of service and certain performance parameters. This flattens and spreads the dollars to other players.

There was a study done a few years ago that showed that if LBJ received the amount of salary based on his impact toward winning he was have more than doubled his career earnings. However, the union contract prevents that with maximums.

I believe you that you consider Suggs and Simons equivalent value. I also find it hilarious.

[AaronB]

Simons is literally rated the worst defender in the league.

Followed closely by the other board fav Tyus Jones

[ogmagicfan]

I honestly wasn't too worried about Suggs, from day 1 you knew he was going to be special defensively. That alone was great to see because after drafting Elftid Payton who was DPOY in college and being below average his whole career, it was something that sometimes doesnt translate

His shooting didnt scare me either because the form was good, and he constantly was the guy forced to shoot bad shots at the end of the shot clock and shot often at the end of the Q on tough shots

Getting the C&S 3 down was important, adding a consisten off the dribble 3 is next

I've had to readjust expectation because he didnt translate as a PG as of now, but him being 6'4 and great defensively I had no worries if he had to move into SG, which he did.

Great defenders at the guard position get paid the least in comparison to equilivant defenders with equal offemsive production at forward or Center. I'd guess around 17-20 mil right now.

[pepe1991]

Suggs will get more than Simons, Poole, and Herro.

2 reasons:

He is a better player
The cap has gone up since they signed their contracts.

So.. Paolo+Suggs+Banchero =110M = never winning anything nor being able to build contender

Reason why Poole & Herro got money they did is because Heat & Warriors had well established, playoff tested teams with not much money to get better in any other way.
That doesn't mean their contracts were good decisions.


Poppey said it best, it almost feels like some of you root for players to get crazy money. I don't give a f*** who makes what, it's cartoonish money in sports at this point, but if you pay 3 players ( where best player today isn't top 10 player, second isn't top 20 and third isn't top 50 ) how execlly are you going to get better with all money gone? It's salary restricted league.
How many not-big market teams will be paying $350 000 000 for basketball team, like Warriors payed last year? Not many.

Nope. Dead wrong again as usual. The reason they (Poole and Herro) got what they did is because that was the market. Simple as that. It is possible to argue that Poole got his as a favor to not sue the Warriors, but other than that argument, they simply got market value.

Suggs is better than both (Poole by a wide margin) and it will be 2 years of increasing cap to add to Suggs number. I suspect something on the order of 4/140 and up. Big money.

Dead wrong again as usual.

Gotta admire confience , i would be deliting my account if i'm you , after Fultz fiasco. ( this is no diss, i'm literally admiring you , hell, i give you +1 often, i don't disagree with everything you write, ditto to MagicMatic etc)

Anyway this is 100% inaccurate.
Warriors and Heat could only resign current players because they were over a cap and had no money to sign anybody else.
Especially Warriors who still are one of biggest luxury tax offenders in nba history.

Nobody was running from outside their organizations to shower netiher Poole nor Herro with $30M a year contracts. Only Spurs, and in theory Knicks could even offer them such contracts.




NBA teams often bid against nobody to rush exstensions to please players and their agents and more often than not, make live difficult to themselfs for no reason. From Wolves giving outrageus contract to Jaden Mcdaniels, Wizards breaking bank for Wall to our own, giving Fultz & Isaac extensions, where one hardly was better than DJ Augustin and other blown up his knee weeks before he was resigned.


Idea that new salary raise will make bad deals better was exect idea that got so many GMs fired , including Hennigan. When they heared cap is on a raise they started to act like drunk billionaires burning money on C level role players like tomarrow does not exist.
Truth about cap, especially for players that sign their max deals is- it's irrelevant is salary cap $15M or $150M, their contracts are based on percentages of cap space, so salary itself is not relevant.
Both Franz and Banchero will sign designed rookie max exstensions. That contract is designed to give player 25% of salary cap ( again, it's irrelevant how much salary cap grows, it's tied within percentage of cap, not arbitrary salary cap number).

So, if salary goes up, thier money will just- go up and meet same percentage of cap.

In reality, it means that by 2026 Orlando will be paying Franz and Banchero around $80M on it's own. If they indeed resign Suggs, as you suggest, to $140M over 5 years, that would mean we pay Suggs, Banchero and Franz around $110 000 000. So even if salary cap goes to $160M ( for 2024-25 it's projected to be $141M ), we would still need to sign 10 players for only remaining $50-80M, in a league where random Cole Anthony / Garry Harris cost +$10M each. This year. And for same type of players you will be paying $15-20M in 2-3 years.

This is execlly why lot of people wanted to make trades now. Because you can get player who is good, have him on contract , or resign him on longer, bigger one, until Franz & Banchero's money goes wild. Because when it happends, you will be in situation like Utah with Mitchell, Gobert, Conley. Good enough to win +50 games, good enough to be in second round, but still not good enough to actually be contender, without any money to actually bring difference maker and swing player. Magic draft capital is not as great as Weltman pretends. We only have 1- not -own first round pick. And it's pick owned by nba champions, and still has protection on it for next season. So our future trades will just mean we will have to sell own first round picks & current players.

I don't want to argue with anybody really. I think we should just be objective and realistic and look at games like tonight, where our starters hardly did anything ( but Banchero) and our bench runned Hornets over. Reasons why this is possible is because nobody is breaking our salary cap. if we resign every average to above average player on $15-20M because "we like him damn it", we will be in salary cap hell and forced to trade off players just to avoid luxury tax, than repetitive luxury tax.

I'm not suggesting not resigning Suggs, but i have zero desire to break bank for him , nor M. Wagner, Fultz, soon Isaac , Goga nor anybody really. They are good players, on given nights, but it works so well because nobody expects them to be good- every night. And that's major difference.

[AaronB]

So.. Paolo+Suggs+Banchero =110M = never winning anything nor being able to build contender

Reason why Poole & Herro got money they did is because Heat & Warriors had well established, playoff tested teams with not much money to get better in any other way.
That doesn't mean their contracts were good decisions.


Poppey said it best, it almost feels like some of you root for players to get crazy money. I don't give a f*** who makes what, it's cartoonish money in sports at this point, but if you pay 3 players ( where best player today isn't top 10 player, second isn't top 20 and third isn't top 50 ) how execlly are you going to get better with all money gone? It's salary restricted league.
How many not-big market teams will be paying $350 000 000 for basketball team, like Warriors payed last year? Not many.

Nope. Dead wrong again as usual. The reason they (Poole and Herro) got what they did is because that was the market. Simple as that. It is possible to argue that Poole got his as a favor to not sue the Warriors, but other than that argument, they simply got market value.

Suggs is better than both (Poole by a wide margin) and it will be 2 years of increasing cap to add to Suggs number. I suspect something on the order of 4/140 and up. Big money.

Dead wrong again as usual.

Gotta admire confience , i would be deliting my account if i'm you , after Fultz fiasco. ( this is no diss, i'm literally admiring you , hell, i give you +1 often, i don't disagree with everything you write, ditto to MagicMatic etc)

Anyway this is 100% inaccurate.
Warriors and Heat could only resign current players because they were over a cap and had no money to sign anybody else.
Especially Warriors who still are one of biggest luxury tax offenders in nba history.

Nobody was running from outside their organizations to shower netiher Poole nor Herro with $30M a year contracts. Only Spurs, and in theory Knicks could even offer them such contracts.




NBA teams often bid against nobody to rush exstensions to please players and their agents and more often than not, make live difficult to themselfs for no reason. From Wolves giving outrageus contract to Jaden Mcdaniels, Wizards breaking bank for Wall to our own, giving Fultz & Isaac extensions, where one hardly was better than DJ Augustin and other blown up his knee weeks before he was resigned.


Idea that new salary raise will make bad deals better was exect idea that got so many GMs fired , including Hennigan. When they heared cap is on a raise they started to act like drunk billionaires burning money on C level role players like tomarrow does not exist.
Truth about cap, especially for players that sign their max deals is- it's irrelevant is salary cap $15M or $150M, their contracts are based on percentages of cap space, so salary itself is not relevant.
Both Franz and Banchero will sign designed rookie max exstensions. That contract is designed to give player 25% of salary cap ( again, it's irrelevant how much salary cap grows, it's tied within percentage of cap, not arbitrary salary cap number).

So, if salary goes up, thier money will just- go up and meet same percentage of cap.

In reality, it means that by 2026 Orlando will be paying Franz and Banchero around $80M on it's own. If they indeed resign Suggs, as you suggest, to $140M over 5 years, that would mean we pay Suggs, Banchero and Franz around $110 000 000. So even if salary cap goes to $160M ( for 2024-25 it's projected to be $141M ), we would still need to sign 10 players for only remaining $50-80M, in a league where random Cole Anthony / Garry Harris cost +$10M each. This year. And for same type of players you will be paying $15-20M in 2-3 years.

This is execlly why lot of people wanted to make trades now. Because you can get player who is good, have him on contract , or resign him on longer, bigger one, until Franz & Banchero's money goes wild. Because when it happends, you will be in situation like Utah with Mitchell, Gobert, Conley. Good enough to win +50 games, good enough to be in second round, but still not good enough to actually be contender, without any money to actually bring difference maker and swing player. Magic draft capital is not as great as Weltman pretends. We only have 1- not -own first round pick. And it's pick owned by nba champions, and still has protection on it for next season. So our future trades will just mean we will have to sell own first round picks & current players.

I don't want to argue with anybody really. I think we should just be objective and realistic and look at games like tonight, where our starters hardly did anything ( but Banchero) and our bench runned Hornets over. Reasons why this is possible is because nobody is breaking our salary cap. if we resign every average to above average player on $15-20M because "we like him damn it", we will be in salary cap hell and forced to trade off players just to avoid luxury tax, than repetitive luxury tax.

I'm not suggesting not resigning Suggs, but i have zero desire to break bank for him , nor M. Wagner, Fultz, soon Isaac , Goga nor anybody really. They are good players, on given nights, but it works so well because nobody expects them to be good- every night. And that's major difference.

I see that you replied to my post.

If you expect me to reply, then you should either make your post short and boring or long and interesting (short and interesting also works).

[pepe1991]

[Skybox]

Nope. Dead wrong again as usual. The reason they (Poole and Herro) got what they did is because that was the market. Simple as that. It is possible to argue that Poole got his as a favor to not sue the Warriors, but other than that argument, they simply got market value.

Suggs is better than both (Poole by a wide margin) and it will be 2 years of increasing cap to add to Suggs number. I suspect something on the order of 4/140 and up. Big money.

Dead wrong again as usual.

Gotta admire confience , i would be deliting my account if i'm you , after Fultz fiasco. ( this is no diss, i'm literally admiring you , hell, i give you +1 often, i don't disagree with everything you write, ditto to MagicMatic etc)

Anyway this is 100% inaccurate.
Warriors and Heat could only resign current players because they were over a cap and had no money to sign anybody else.
Especially Warriors who still are one of biggest luxury tax offenders in nba history.

Nobody was running from outside their organizations to shower netiher Poole nor Herro with $30M a year contracts. Only Spurs, and in theory Knicks could even offer them such contracts.




NBA teams often bid against nobody to rush exstensions to please players and their agents and more often than not, make live difficult to themselfs for no reason. From Wolves giving outrageus contract to Jaden Mcdaniels, Wizards breaking bank for Wall to our own, giving Fultz & Isaac extensions, where one hardly was better than DJ Augustin and other blown up his knee weeks before he was resigned.


Idea that new salary raise will make bad deals better was exect idea that got so many GMs fired , including Hennigan. When they heared cap is on a raise they started to act like drunk billionaires burning money on C level role players like tomarrow does not exist.
Truth about cap, especially for players that sign their max deals is- it's irrelevant is salary cap $15M or $150M, their contracts are based on percentages of cap space, so salary itself is not relevant.
Both Franz and Banchero will sign designed rookie max exstensions. That contract is designed to give player 25% of salary cap ( again, it's irrelevant how much salary cap grows, it's tied within percentage of cap, not arbitrary salary cap number).

So, if salary goes up, thier money will just- go up and meet same percentage of cap.

In reality, it means that by 2026 Orlando will be paying Franz and Banchero around $80M on it's own. If they indeed resign Suggs, as you suggest, to $140M over 5 years, that would mean we pay Suggs, Banchero and Franz around $110 000 000. So even if salary cap goes to $160M ( for 2024-25 it's projected to be $141M ), we would still need to sign 10 players for only remaining $50-80M, in a league where random Cole Anthony / Garry Harris cost +$10M each. This year. And for same type of players you will be paying $15-20M in 2-3 years.

This is execlly why lot of people wanted to make trades now. Because you can get player who is good, have him on contract , or resign him on longer, bigger one, until Franz & Banchero's money goes wild. Because when it happends, you will be in situation like Utah with Mitchell, Gobert, Conley. Good enough to win +50 games, good enough to be in second round, but still not good enough to actually be contender, without any money to actually bring difference maker and swing player. Magic draft capital is not as great as Weltman pretends. We only have 1- not -own first round pick. And it's pick owned by nba champions, and still has protection on it for next season. So our future trades will just mean we will have to sell own first round picks & current players.

I don't want to argue with anybody really. I think we should just be objective and realistic and look at games like tonight, where our starters hardly did anything ( but Banchero) and our bench runned Hornets over. Reasons why this is possible is because nobody is breaking our salary cap. if we resign every average to above average player on $15-20M because "we like him damn it", we will be in salary cap hell and forced to trade off players just to avoid luxury tax, than repetitive luxury tax.

I'm not suggesting not resigning Suggs, but i have zero desire to break bank for him , nor M. Wagner, Fultz, soon Isaac , Goga nor anybody really. They are good players, on given nights, but it works so well because nobody expects them to be good- every night. And that's major difference.

I see that you replied to my post.

If you expect me to reply, then you should either make your post short and boring or long and interesting (short and interesting also works).

I’ll summarize for you…I’m not afraid of big words.

Compliments on your confidence…that’s a nice thing. Certainty without any homework is also a very dangerous thing. Hopefully, you approach more important decisions (than RealGM) with a little more consideration of facts.

The new kinder, gentler Pepe was also generally complementary of many of your previous posts but wanted to help you understand how the salary cap kills you if you sign very good players to great player deals prematurely. Hope that helps.

*my own comment…Aaron - not directed at you specifically…certainty is one of the scariest things I see in the USA today. Combined with stubborn pride, it makes for an idiot nation, unwilling to consider different viewpoints or changing opinions based on new info. The ease with which the media & social media can manipulate and mobilize people in this weakened state is our downfall. People just double down on their closely held “positions” on things rather than actually consider that they could be mistaken or that things may have changed. As far as RealGM, I throw stupid s**t on the wall for us to consider but I’m more than willing to say I was wrong about someone…even NBA FOs get it wrong- quite often actually. Luckily, my takes don’t matter in the course of the world…then again, the NBA really doesn’t either- it’s purely entertainment. That’s another reason for a FO to take a swing at greatness- at least it’s interesting…which is way better than irrelevant.

[AaronB]

Below are the extensions from last year. Now add 5% to them.

Franz will come in about Bane level and Suggs about Vassell level.

What does that mean? Franz next contract AAS (average annual salary) will start with a 4 and Suggs will start with a 3 most likely.

Anything less and they should fire their agents.

Make no mistake, Paolo's will start with a 5, close to a 6.

Anthony Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 1 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

LaMelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets (No. 3 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Tyrese Haliburton, Indiana Pacers (No. 12 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Desmond Bane, Memphis Grizzlies (No. 30 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $207 million

Devin Vassell, San Antonio Spurs (No. 11 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $146 million

Jaden McDaniels, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 28 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $136 million

[Knightro]

Below are the extensions from last year. Now add 5% to them.

Franz will come in about Bane level and Suggs about Vassell level.

What does that mean? Franz next contract AAS (average annual salary) will start with a 4 and Suggs will start with a 3 most likely.

Anything less and they should fire their agents.

Make no mistake, Paolo's will start with a 5, close to a 6.

Anthony Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 1 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

LaMelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets (No. 3 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Tyrese Haliburton, Indiana Pacers (No. 12 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Desmond Bane, Memphis Grizzlies (No. 30 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $207 million

Devin Vassell, San Antonio Spurs (No. 11 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $146 million

Jaden McDaniels, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 28 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $136 million

Paolo is getting a designated player max and Franz is getting a regular max. That much is abundantly clear.

Suggs... we'll see.

I am loathe to praise this front office, but generally speaking they have done a good job on getting team favorable terms on the few contract extensions they've given out.

Aaron Gordon signed a declining 4/80. Wendell Carter signed a declining 4/50. Cole Anthony just signed 3/39. In all three scenarios, I think the consensus was the total value was less than people expected it to be.

I am not totally convinced Suggs is going to get as much as you think he's going to get, even with the cap much higher now than it was a few years ago.

[AaronB]

Below are the extensions from last year. Now add 5% to them.

Franz will come in about Bane level and Suggs about Vassell level.

What does that mean? Franz next contract AAS (average annual salary) will start with a 4 and Suggs will start with a 3 most likely.

Anything less and they should fire their agents.

Make no mistake, Paolo's will start with a 5, close to a 6.

Anthony Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 1 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

LaMelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets (No. 3 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Tyrese Haliburton, Indiana Pacers (No. 12 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Desmond Bane, Memphis Grizzlies (No. 30 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $207 million

Devin Vassell, San Antonio Spurs (No. 11 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $146 million

Jaden McDaniels, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 28 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $136 million

Paolo is getting a designated player max and Franz is getting a regular max. That much is abundantly clear.

Suggs... we'll see.

I am loathe to praise this front office, but generally speaking they have done a good job on getting team favorable terms on the few contract extensions they've given out.

Aaron Gordon signed a declining 4/80. Wendell Carter signed a declining 4/50. Cole Anthony just signed 3/39. In all three scenarios, I think the consensus was the total value was less than people expected it to be.

I am not totally convinced Suggs is going to get as much as you think he's going to get, even with the cap much higher now than it was a few years ago.

Go to EPM and compare Suggs to Vassell and JM. Suggs is there. Better than JM.


As I said, peak of the curve is 4/140 or 5/155. That fits right in line with the cap projections.

20-22 AAS is laughable. If that happens, Suggs and his agents are fools.

[Knightro]

Go to EPM and compare Suggs to Vassell and JM. Suggs is there. Better than JM.

As I said, peak of the curve is 4/140 or 5/155. That fits right in line with the cap projections.

20-22 AAS is laughable. If that happens, Suggs and his agents are fools.

We'll have to see. I don't think 20 AAV is necessarily reasonable, but I also don't think 35 AAV is reasonable either.

At the end of the day Suggs (and no rookie for that matter) doesn't *really* have a ton leverage here.

Is he really going to say no to something like 4/100 and have the Magic simply give him his qualifying offer and take his chances at finding a deal that starts at 35M AAV in restricted free agency? Especially when free agency for the most part is dead and very few teams go into summers with that much cap space anymore? And when even fewer teams are willing to "tie up" 35M on a restricted free agent that will assuredly be matched which could cost them a different unrestricted free agent?

And especially when you factor in how hard he plays and how many little nicks and bumps and bruises he routinely picks up. I think he very well may be more willing to give Orlando a "team friendly" deal to still ultimately secure a 9-figure contract that will end when he's all of 27 years old.

[The-Stallion70]

Below are the extensions from last year. Now add 5% to them.

Franz will come in about Bane level and Suggs about Vassell level.

What does that mean? Franz next contract AAS (average annual salary) will start with a 4 and Suggs will start with a 3 most likely.

Anything less and they should fire their agents.

Make no mistake, Paolo's will start with a 5, close to a 6.

Anthony Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 1 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

LaMelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets (No. 3 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Tyrese Haliburton, Indiana Pacers (No. 12 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Desmond Bane, Memphis Grizzlies (No. 30 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $207 million

Devin Vassell, San Antonio Spurs (No. 11 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $146 million

Jaden McDaniels, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 28 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $136 million

Paolo is getting a designated player max and Franz is getting a regular max. That much is abundantly clear.

Suggs... we'll see.

I am loathe to praise this front office, but generally speaking they have done a good job on getting team favorable terms on the few contract extensions they've given out.

Aaron Gordon signed a declining 4/80. Wendell Carter signed a declining 4/50. Cole Anthony just signed 3/39. In all three scenarios, I think the consensus was the total value was less than people expected it to be.

I am not totally convinced Suggs is going to get as much as you think he's going to get, even with the cap much higher now than it was a few years ago.

Go to EPM and compare Suggs to Vassell and JM. Suggs is there. Better than JM.


As I said, peak of the curve is 4/140 or 5/155. That fits right in line with the cap projections.

20-22 AAS is laughable. If that happens, Suggs and his agents are fools.

I'm not going to compare Suggs to All stars Ball, Ant or Hali, not 100% sure why you bring them up compared to a Suggs a guy whose averaging 12ppg as a fourth option spot up shooter.

Vassell averaged 18 ppg on the Spurs before signing his deal. He creates his own offense and has size for the position which continues to allow him to do so.

Suggs really doesn't create his own offense, he is a 3 and D guard which is why I compare him alot to Bruce Brown.

Mcdaniels stays healthy and is the main perimeter defender for the best defense in the league.

I think a nine figure deal is too much for an injury prone player who doesn't really create offense.

[Skybox]

Below are the extensions from last year. Now add 5% to them.

Franz will come in about Bane level and Suggs about Vassell level.

What does that mean? Franz next contract AAS (average annual salary) will start with a 4 and Suggs will start with a 3 most likely.

Anything less and they should fire their agents.

Make no mistake, Paolo's will start with a 5, close to a 6.

Anthony Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 1 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

LaMelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets (No. 3 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Tyrese Haliburton, Indiana Pacers (No. 12 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $260 million

Desmond Bane, Memphis Grizzlies (No. 30 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $207 million

Devin Vassell, San Antonio Spurs (No. 11 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $146 million

Jaden McDaniels, Minnesota Timberwolves (No. 28 pick in 2020)
» 5 years, $136 million

Thank you for the numbers...max slots are based on 25% of the cap. When does the new cap kick in? Is that where the 5% comes in or is that just a rough estimate or just your arbitrary increase?

It was set at $141m for next season. Spotrac has a figure of $155m for 25-26...but I think that's just a projection...Spotrac's summaries of the contracts you listed are different than your numbers....

No negotiation whatsoever on Paolo...MAX is 25% (assuming he doesn't go ham and get 2 straight All-NBA's) = starts at 38.8 (based on next year's cap...will go UP by the time he's extension-eligible....could easily start at 45m. Edwards' extension is 5/204m, starting at $35,250,000 and going up to $46,530,000 in the 5th year...not sure where you got 260m.

Franz doesn't get a max in my opinion...let's say he ONLY gets 20%. I agree that Bane is a fair value comparison. Bane's deal is 5/197m, starting at 34m.

Suggs may be in Vassell's value neighborhood, but Vassell is a very good defender, coming off of a 18.5 ppg season. His extension is 5/135m, starting at $29m. His offense is superior to Suggs and he was shooting 39% from 3 coming into his extension-eligible summer.
Vassell would be a much better third option offensively than Suggs, IMO. His defense isn't Suggs-like, but it's good enough and his shooting will complement Wemby just like our best guard's should complement Paolo & Franz. IMO, if Suggs is angling for $29m +, he may be heading into RFA (or even a SnT ). If our 3rd best guy (he is- but 3rd by a big gap) is making $29m, and not really playin a big offensive role, we better start checking the scrapheaps for the rest of the roster. AB's emergence might actually lead to Suggs becoming expendable if money gets tight. McDaniels is probably a good value comparison to Suggs, IMO, but got WAY overpaid and will hamstring MIN's summer plans for years - unless the cap takes a leap (or his offense does)...McDaniels' deal might be the straw that leads to a KAT trade if MIN doesn't thrill in the playoffs. They will almost certainly lose Kyle Anderson, unless he agrees to a big pay cut (he might).

Whatever the cap number is...if Paolo, Franz, and Suggs are glomming 60% of it...that's going to be a tough road to adding good players. I think, ultimately, Suggs extends quickly for $18m-$20m, assuming he doesn't absolutely light it up in the playoffs. If Suggs is an 18ppg scorer with his current level of defense and availability- I'm in. But I still see a need for an equal value, but more offensively-minded guard to play next to him. I love everything about Suggs, but he's right in that "not sweet" spot where you want to reward his spirit and intangibles, but you have to recognize how far behind the Big 2 he is and the likely ceiling that puts on the team's progress.

Also, it's easy for fans to talk about how easy it is for ownership to go over the cap to re-sign their players, but where does ORL get that money? There's a real limit to how many boxes you can sell to ORL corps and how many $750 lower bowl seats ORL residents will buy and I love beer, but not at $15 a pop...this is most definitely a small-market organization and I wouldn't be surprised if there will be strict mandates about avoiding the tax aprons above all else. I'd love to be wrong but ScAmway ain't that big and there's a whole generation of heirs that don't necessarily spend a lot of time in ORL.

There are huge salaries out there for mediocre players like Hield, for example. Hopefully, I'm missing something big in my perspective...but often, overpays are done in times where it doesn't really affect the next era (Jeff Green, FVV, Bruce Brown), not so much in a building a team to last situation, like ours. Look at GSW, who drafted very well and just kept paying to retain and add to that core, while collecting rings-now they are SOOO far over the cap that rules are being changed to prevent another...I don't think the DeVos family has that Silicon Valley money or attachment to the team.

[p0peye]

AaronB is psychologically prepared for a new rebuild in 2026 and is getting us on the same page.

[AaronB]

AaronB is psychologically prepared for a new rebuild in 2026 and is getting us on the same page.

No, I make no conclusions other than the simple numbers. I have been blessed with an incredible career being a numbers guy and being able to project profits and expenses into the future.

These are simple calculations. I used objective numbers (EPM) when I could and looked at the trend of the market.

One could always say "I don't feel that Suggs is as good as X player". However, I looked at the most recent extensions and used EPM to put Suggs (and Franz and Paolo) on that curve and the result is obvious: 4/140 or 5/155 for Suggs. 5/200+ for Franz and 5/290 for Paolo.

The only caveat I would make is that the NBA has installed new punitive measures for teams above certain thresholds. In the past, there were actual incentives to pay players more as it would make trades for stars with picks and filler realizable.

That landscape has changed, but if I am a player's agent, that argument would not hold a lot of water.

[p0peye]

AaronB is psychologically prepared for a new rebuild in 2026 and is getting us on the same page.

No, I make no conclusions other than the simple numbers. I have been blessed with an incredible career being a numbers guy and being able to project profits and expenses into the future.

These are simple calculations. I used objective numbers (EPM) when I could and looked at the trend of the market.

One could always say "I don't feel that Suggs is as good as X player". However, I looked at the most recent extensions and used EPM to put Suggs (and Franz and Paolo) on that curve and the result is obvious: 4/140 or 5/155 for Suggs. 5/200+ for Franz and 5/290 for Paolo.

The only caveat I would make is that the NBA has installed new punitive measures for teams above certain thresholds. In the past, there were actual incentives to pay players more as it would make trades for stars with picks and filler realizable.

That landscape has changed, but if I am a player's agent, that argument would not hold a lot of water.

So simple calculation computes which the team pays those numbers as well?

[AaronB]

AaronB is psychologically prepared for a new rebuild in 2026 and is getting us on the same page.

No, I make no conclusions other than the simple numbers. I have been blessed with an incredible career being a numbers guy and being able to project profits and expenses into the future.

These are simple calculations. I used objective numbers (EPM) when I could and looked at the trend of the market.

One could always say "I don't feel that Suggs is as good as X player". However, I looked at the most recent extensions and used EPM to put Suggs (and Franz and Paolo) on that curve and the result is obvious: 4/140 or 5/155 for Suggs. 5/200+ for Franz and 5/290 for Paolo.

The only caveat I would make is that the NBA has installed new punitive measures for teams above certain thresholds. In the past, there were actual incentives to pay players more as it would make trades for stars with picks and filler realizable.

That landscape has changed, but if I am a player's agent, that argument would not hold a lot of water.

So simple calculation computes which the team pays those numbers as well?

NBA teams are getting quite creative. I think Philly has 2 players under contract next year. They will be players in the FA (both R and U) this summer.

[Knightro]

NBA teams are getting quite creative. I think Philly has 2 players under contract next year. They will be players in the FA (both R and U) this summer.

Little bit of a misnomer as Maxey himself is a RFA and will get a max of his own once they've accomplished their other moves.

[eyriq]

I think Suggs can be the best role player in the league, a la Aaron Gordon, if he doesn't make it as the 3rd option.