Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[basketballRob]

Franz is close to 50/40/90 in the last 15 games. I think they should try to get him more attempts.

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[penny_nz]

To add to this, even if he did get more shots because the team sucks and is injured, it still doesn't matter. What matters is what he does with those attempts. It also shows that the team and coach trusts him with those shots. I'm not sure how it can be implied to be a negative in any way.

Nailed it. I can understand debating the validity of use of the stats. But Franz, through necessity, has been given a lot of burn, more than if we were healthy. But he's done fantastically well with it.

For a team who are chronically bad at under using rookies, I couldn't be happier this situation arose and now Franz has cemented what he's capable of already, never mind in a year or twos time

[pepe1991]

I L O V E how i talk about Barnes AND MOBLEY but you toss in Green and ignore Mobley because it doesn't fit narrative you try to shift. Franz Wagner leads all rookies in shots taken TOTAL and is second in shots taken per game. Facts. You argue semantic. 0,4 shots or 0,001 shot per game more still doesn't change fact he takes more shots than Barnes.
Evan Mobley 11,8 shots a game = 977 shots a season , if he plays 82 games
Franz Wagner 13,1 shot a game, over hypotetical 82 games = 1074 shots
Scottie Barnes 12,7 shots a game, over hypotetical 82 games = 1041 shot.

33 shots 97 shots, over whole season is actually big difference. 33 shots difference is gap player with FGA of Barnes covers in 3 games. So Franz shooting "just 0,4 more" isn't as small gap as it looks.

btw tnx for qouting me. Franz took most shots by rookie. Partically because he played most games by rookie, partially because he is second among rookies in shot taken, behind another rookie who is on only team worst than Orlando. That's my point all along.

If you really think 33 more shot attempts over 82 games is a significant gap then I think we can end this silly discussion right here because that's a near negligible difference in total shots.

Three pages into a pointless debate and you still ignore that i compared him with Barnes AND MOBLEY because Mobley doesn't fit your narrative. Love it.
Also there is clear upright direction with Franz shot attemps. Ove last 10 games he averages 16,2 shots a game. Where Barnes, before injury was taking around 14 shots over same sample. So those "just 32 shots" were on tragjectory to become around 100 shots, per 82 games total- more. Still "small difference"?

Somebody said " plenty of rookies are given those free reings" okey . Let's go through that BS.

ALL nba rookies from last 5 drafts with averaged least 13 shots a game:

Joel Embiid
Mitchell
Dennis Smith
Kuzma
Doncic
Young
Sexton
Morant
Zion
Edwards
Lamelo
Cade

Since Franz is now taking 15 shots a game, if that translated for rest of a season this short list would be: him, Edwards, Zion, Luka, Tray.... and you will have to go back to 2013 to MCW, 2012 LIllard and over a decade ago to dig another name. Blake Griffin.
So, if he indeed averages 15 shots a game, he will be one of 7 guys in last 11 years ( 7th guy among 154 lottery selected rookies ) who was given that type of huge role in rookie season over last decade (and some).

If he plays 32 mpg over 65 games he will be just 10th rookie in last 10 years to achive that.

But hey "Plenty of rookies are given this opportunity" . *Me laughing at home and rolling eyes so loud at this moment*.

And again, and again and again, this is not taking credit from Franz. It's adding context to what he does. HE is playing great, but vast majority of rookies ( literally would be 7th in 13 years ) are given such opportunity.

[basketballRob]

Plenty of rookies doesn't shoot like Franz. If he were on a better team he would get better looks, a more open lane, and better passers. Plus they would finish his passes at a higher rate.

It would be hard for him not to get playing time no matter where he got drafted.

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[Optimus_Steel]

Plenty of rookies doesn't shoot like Franz. If he were on a better team he would get better looks, a more open lane, and better passers. Plus they would finish his passes at a higher rate.

It would be hard for him not to get playing time no matter where he got drafted.

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Agreed. If anything this proves that given our depleted roster he needs more shots. We should be pretty damm thankful that despite the number of players missing and the total chaos that he has a been efficient. Those numbers are excellent for a rookie, **** they are excellent for a veteran.... It's like Damm if he doesn't and Damm if he does with some people...it's really remarkable what he is doing as a rookie.

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[drsd]

Looking at the below, the Magic sucks because none of its players on the court are playing. Whereas Detroit and OKC is simply bad.

Read on Twitter

[thelead]

Looking at the below, the Magic sucks because none of its players on the court are playing. Whereas Detroit and OKC is simply bad.

Read on Twitter

I agree that if we were fully healthy we would be much better but we're still lacking talent/development to be anything more than a possible play-in team.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Reinforcements are on the way tonight.

Still out: Fultz, Isaac, Moore, Carter-Williams, Anthony, Suggs, Okeke, Lopez

[LDNMagic90]

Read on Twitter

Reinforcements are on the way tonight.

Still out: Fultz, Isaac, Moore, Carter-Williams, Anthony, Suggs, Okeke, Lopez

Finally! We are slowly but surely getting more healthy.

[LDNMagic90]

Random question, but has The Athletic replaced our beat writer since Robbins went to Washington?

I feel like Dan Savage has been doing his thing recently and I can appreciate it, it’s just annoying that I’m paying for The Athletic and Orlando seems to have been forgotten about.

[basketballRob]

Random question, but has The Athletic replaced our beat writer since Robbins went to Washington?

I feel like Dan Savage has been doing his thing recently and I can appreciate it, it’s just annoying that I’m paying for The Athletic and Orlando seems to have been forgotten about.

John Denton should take over for him.

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[Optimus_Steel]

Looking at the below, the Magic sucks because none of its players on the court are playing. Whereas Detroit and OKC is simply bad.

Read on Twitter

I agree that if we were fully healthy we would be much better but we're still lacking talent/development to be anything more than a possible play-in team.

Even with a fully healthy team we still suck, albeit not 2nd worse record suck.

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[LDNMagic90]

Random question, but has The Athletic replaced our beat writer since Robbins went to Washington?

I feel like Dan Savage has been doing his thing recently and I can appreciate it, it’s just annoying that I’m paying for The Athletic and Orlando seems to have been forgotten about.

John Denton should take over for him.

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I agree or maybe someone from here should apply

[thelead]

Looking at the below, the Magic sucks because none of its players on the court are playing. Whereas Detroit and OKC is simply bad.

Read on Twitter

I agree that if we were fully healthy we would be much better but we're still lacking talent/development to be anything more than a possible play-in team.

Even with a fully healthy team we still suck, albeit not 2nd worse record suck.

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Sure but look at the play-in race. Those teams suck too

[CZ Eddie]

I imagine Franz' numbers will go down as other scorers return to active status over the next month or two.

What's the deal with RJ?
Seems like he should be getting more development time that's being eaten up by veteran Harris?

[Magic_Kingdom]

Looking at the below, the Magic sucks because none of its players on the court are playing. Whereas Detroit and OKC is simply bad.

Read on Twitter

This is really embarrassing, and belies the argument that all bad teams hold out healthy players to increase their chances of losing in the same manner as the Magic. This is off-the-charts tanking -- literally, look at the chart.

What this shows more than anything is that Weltman has so little confidence in his ability to build a winning team that he is willing to go to any extreme to increase his chance of a good player falling into his lap. And he's not wrong -- he's been here 5 years and the roster is a pile of garbage. So as fans we have to watch a G-League team and continue to post threads with titles like "When is Isaac returning", "When is Suggs returning", "When is Fultz returning", and watch Cole Anthony with his "injured ankle" do cartwheels and back-flips on the bench.

The worst part is the projected top 3 in the draft are about as uninspiring as we've seen in years.

[SOUL]

This is really embarrassing, and belies the argument that all bad teams hold out healthy players to increase their chances of losing in the same manner as the Magic. This is off-the-charts tanking -- literally, look at the chart.

What this shows more than anything is that Weltman has so little confidence in his ability to build a winning team that he is willing to go to any extreme to increase his chance of a good player falling into his lap. And he's not wrong -- he's been here 5 years and the roster is a pile of garbage. So as fans we have to watch a G-League team and continue to post threads with titles like "When is Isaac returning", "When is Suggs returning", "When is Fultz returning", and watch Cole Anthony with his "injured ankle" do cartwheels and back-flips on the bench.

The worst part is the projected top 3 in the draft are about as uninspiring as we've seen in years.

I feel like you've been promoting this weird theory that we're sitting out guys on purpose despite us losing when we had Cole and Suggs regardless. Fultz and Isaac are off ACL injuries (Isaac hurting his same knee twice). There is no reason to hold out rookies and 2nd year players in the first third of the season when 70% of the league is under COVID protocols and we're forcing guys into 35+ minutes a night because we have three rotational players. We've always erred on the side of being really cautious with injuries but nothing in the timeline makes sense to do any of that.

OKC did it on the back half of the season benching Horford/SGA iffy injury because they were winning way too many games with them.

Most of the long term injuries on the Magic seem legit. Sure, the vets will start seeing more healthy scratches during the back half of the season but we expected that. But you'd be surprised on some of these other teams that have had major injuries to some players and they also take very long to come back/having setbacks. Jaren Jackson (before this season), TJ Warren, Zion, Porzingis took 18 months for his ACL.

There's no grand theory to bench young guys so we can lose games in December despite already losing games.

[dakomish23]

Is this your trade thread? If so I wanted to know what the general trade value is considered for Ross. A late first if you take on longer money or a couple of seconds if same length?

[drsd]

Is this your trade thread? If so I wanted to know what the general trade value is considered for Ross. A late first if you take on longer money or a couple of seconds if same length?

This is about hat is rumoured for Management interests. Are you imagining Barrett or Noel and a lottery-protected first? The Knocks can probably get the Magic 2nd-round pick in such a trade.


..

[zaymon]

Is this your trade thread? If so I wanted to know what the general trade value is considered for Ross. A late first if you take on longer money or a couple of seconds if same length?

Somethink like this. We will try to get late first plus expiring for sure but it will be hard to get. If we take longer salary it will propably have to be high character veteran. We still can wait a year with him.