Shams: The season is suspended / Coronavirus Thread

[nymets1]

god damn we need basketball back.

I'm so ready to get back to LA fitness and compete against people on the court. People that know my game know to get me the ball when I'm open, i'm the best shooter any gym I go to.

[Gomagic44]

I absolutely agree! I was just curious as to your reasoning for saying that. I've never seen that position advocated for.

Wow, wow. Obama made lots of mistakes on foreign policy and that was a reason I voted for Trump over Clinton...but siding with the Shia over the Sunni was a mistake? How do you figure? The main Sunni government we support is Saudi Arabia. The place most the hijackers are from. What did Iran ever do to us that compared to 9/11? The hostage crisis? How are we supposed to support the sunnis in Iraq after toppling their autocrat in Saddam who brutalized the majority? We support the oppressive Sunni government in Bahrain which sent in Saudi tanks to massacre the Shia majority.

I'm not saying we should always support Shia over Sunni but that is not a criticism that I understand.

We also gave massive amounts of money to al quieda in Syria. Then there was Islamic State which is also Sunni.

I wish we just stopped getting ourselves into the quagmire that is the middle east but I question at least once a week why we are so buddy buddy with the Saudis and why we pick the sunnis over the Shia.

Prior to all this madness the easy answer was economy and jobs, and that cannot be questioned.
While I supported Barack, my biggest issue with him was foreign policy, specifically the Middle East. Made a lot of decisions that the typical Magic management would make. Some being: siding with Shia over Sunni. Iran nuclear deal(worse than what we traded Tobias for). Syria red line(450k people died and nothing done by the US). Gaddafi. Benghazi.
George Bush also deserves massive blame for getting involved over there in the first place.

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It would be better to not show support for either tbh, but to me personally I consider the Sunnis the lesser of two evils. So we can agree to disagree on that.

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[BadMofoPimp]

Even if I agreed with the comment about policies, the problem is he does “utter a word” and he does so ... a lot!! More importantly, his base of people hang his every word to the point of dangerous extremes. It becomes about more than politics and agendas. This isn’t a Left vs Right issue. This is a Correct vs. Trump issue. You need a proper leader of people.

There are many (moderate) Republicans I would welcome with open arms as the POTUS. That really isn’t a statement of the times of today. I would welcome many of them against a Bernie, Hilary, Gore, Biden or many dems we have seen recently. ... but oh boy would I slobber over welcoming them over Trump!

I am just so far agaist Socialism and the far left agenda that I would rather have an imbecile like Trump with him speaking his mind over the maniacs on the left. It is a sad state of affairs that we even have to choose like that, but there is only extreme right and left nowadays. I would rather they both work on moderate agreements.

So you are against social security, medicaid and medicare, roads and highways, the police and military, public schools, food stamps, tax credits for homeowners or those with dependents (children), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... These are all social programs. Believe it or not, there are societal needs that the private sector is wholly incapable of providing. Social programs, to some extent or another, are an absolute necessity.

I hate to break this to you, but... you are not a moderate. You betray yourself damned near every time you post. Moderates don't abuse the word 'socialism' to throw out blanket attacks or accuse everyone that they disagree with as CNN-watching sheep. Everything is relative. Your perspective is why the left seems extreme to you. Both parties are far to the right on economics, which is basically all that matters. Bill Clinton was paraded as a political paradigm for the democratic party because he won two terms, but his major achievements were the crime bill and NAFTA.

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

[BadMofoPimp]

Back to Covid, does anybody think we have reached our peak at this juncture or does anybody think that daily numbers will increase? If we have reached our peak, does anyone think daily numbers will drop and when. Me, I think we are close to peak and may stay around that for another 2 weeks before dropping, hopefully, if we stay on the path of keeping people at home. I just think that alot of people are going to be losing homes soon. I noticed alot of housing becoming cheaper already.

[Gomagic44]

Are you against universal healthcare?

I am just so far agaist Socialism and the far left agenda that I would rather have an imbecile like Trump with him speaking his mind over the maniacs on the left. It is a sad state of affairs that we even have to choose like that, but there is only extreme right and left nowadays. I would rather they both work on moderate agreements.

So you are against social security, medicaid and medicare, roads and highways, the police and military, public schools, food stamps, tax credits for homeowners or those with dependents (children), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... These are all social programs. Believe it or not, there are societal needs that the private sector is wholly incapable of providing. Social programs, to some extent or another, are an absolute necessity.

I hate to break this to you, but... you are not a moderate. You betray yourself damned near every time you post. Moderates don't abuse the word 'socialism' to throw out blanket attacks or accuse everyone that they disagree with as CNN-watching sheep. Everything is relative. Your perspective is why the left seems extreme to you. Both parties are far to the right on economics, which is basically all that matters. Bill Clinton was paraded as a political paradigm for the democratic party because he won two terms, but his major achievements were the crime bill and NAFTA.

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

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[Gomagic44]

I think the country will be piecemeal opened starting in July. It's been a states rights approach and nothing on Earth is gonna keep some of the fly over states closed for long. Even though they have little in the way of economy. We really are collection of different governments when the feds allow us to be. Desantis is a smart guy operating as a dufus. He's also a bootlicker. He will open us up the second Mr. Trump gives him the go ahead.

All my opinion of course.

Back to Covid, does anybody think we have reached our peak at this juncture or does anybody think that daily numbers will increase? If we have reached our peak, does anyone think daily numbers will drop and when. Me, I think we are close to peak and may stay around that for another 2 weeks before dropping, hopefully, if we stay on the path of keeping people at home. I just think that alot of people are going to be losing homes soon. I noticed alot of housing becoming cheaper already.

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[nymets1]

Last night's numbers as of 9pm from bing.com/covid

USA-532,940 confirmed cases(+27,229 increase), Recoveries- 31,904(+3198 increase), Deaths- 20,591(+1912 increase)
New York- 180,458 confirmed cases(+9946 increase)
New Jersey- 58,151 confirmed cases(+3563 increase)
Michigan-23,993(+1210 increase)
Mass-22,860(+1886 increase)
Penn-21,655(+3427 increase)
California- 21,374(+1683 increase)
Louisana-21,014(+761 increase)
Illinois- 19,180(+1293 increase)
Florida- 18,986(+1018 increase)
Texas- 12,561(+890 increase)
Georgia- 12,261(+778 increase)
Connecticut- 10,538(+754 increase)
Washington-10,224(+616 increase)

Spain- 163,027 confirmed cases(+1313 increase), Recoveries- 59,109(+3441 increase)
Italy- 152,271 confirmed cases(+2605 increase), Recoveries- 32,534(+2089 increase)
Germany- 125,452 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 51,853(+9698 increase)

Wow Spain and Germany with their recoveries today. USA over 3000 recoveries

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

USA- 532,879 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 30,453, Deaths- 20,577

New York- +8786 increase in confirmed cases
New Jersey- +3563 increase in confirmed cases
Michigan- +1210 increase
Mass- +1886 increase
California- +1110 increase
Penn- +1464 increase
Louisana- +761 increase
Illinois- +1293 increase
Florida- +1018 increase
Texas- +1019 increase
Georgia- +402 increase
Connecticut- +972 increase
Washington- +253

Today's numbers as of 9:30 pm from bing.com/covid

USA-558,768 confirmed cases(+24,868 increase), Recoveries- 32,904(+1000 increase), Deaths- 22,021(+1430 increase)
New York- 188,694 confirmed cases(+7381 increase), Recoveries- 17,089(+855 increase)
New Jersey- 61,850 confirmed cases(+3699 increase)
Mass- 25,475(+4501 increase)
Michigan- 24,638(+645 increase)
Penn- 22,833(+2854 increase)
California- 21,794(+420 increase)
Illinois- 20,852(+1672 increase)
Louisana- 20,595(+581 increase)
Florida- 19,918(+932 increase)
Texas- 13,484(+432 increase)
Georgia- 12,550(+391 increase)
Connecticut- 11,510
Washington- 10,411(+187 increase)

Spain- 166,831 confirmed cases(+522 increase), Recoveries- 62,391(+3282 increase)
Italy- 156,363 confirmed cases(+2415 increase), Recoveries- 34,211(+1677 increase)
Germany- 127,854 confirmed cases(+1366 increase), Recoveries- 52,889(+1036 increase)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

USA- 560,425 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 32,634, Deaths- 22,105
New York- 189,415 confirmed cases(+7400 increase)
New Jersey- 61,850 confirmed cases(+3699 increase)
Mass- 25,475 confirmed cases(+4501 increase)
Michigan- 24,638 confirmed cases(+645 increase)
Penn- 22,920 confirmed cases(+2900 increase)
California- 23,177 confirmed cases(+1383 increase)
Illinois- 20,852 confirmed cases (+1672 increase)
Louisana- 20,595 confirmed cases(+581 increase)
Florida- 19,985 confirmed cases(+1000 increase)
Texas- 13,640 confirmed cases(+600 increase)
Georgia- 12,550 confirmed cases(+391 increase)
Connecticut- 12,035 confirmed cases(+1497 increase)
Washington- 10,632 confirmed cases(+400 increase)

Michigan, Lousiana, Texas and Georgia had a good day with new cases under 1000 each. Louisana now has 2 straight days.
Washington has 10 straight days of low increase in new confirmed cases

New York has the most total tests with 461,601
California has the 2nd most total tests with 203,400
Florida has the 3rd most total tests with 185,520( Florida was 2nd yesterday)

Not surprised that California passed us with total tests as California is the largest US state. That's good for Florida to be 3rd in total tests while being 9th in most confirmed cases and Florida is the 3rd largest US state.

[tiderulz]

I am just so far agaist Socialism and the far left agenda that I would rather have an imbecile like Trump with him speaking his mind over the maniacs on the left. It is a sad state of affairs that we even have to choose like that, but there is only extreme right and left nowadays. I would rather they both work on moderate agreements.

So you are against social security, medicaid and medicare, roads and highways, the police and military, public schools, food stamps, tax credits for homeowners or those with dependents (children), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... These are all social programs. Believe it or not, there are societal needs that the private sector is wholly incapable of providing. Social programs, to some extent or another, are an absolute necessity.

I hate to break this to you, but... you are not a moderate. You betray yourself damned near every time you post. Moderates don't abuse the word 'socialism' to throw out blanket attacks or accuse everyone that they disagree with as CNN-watching sheep. Everything is relative. Your perspective is why the left seems extreme to you. Both parties are far to the right on economics, which is basically all that matters. Bill Clinton was paraded as a political paradigm for the democratic party because he won two terms, but his major achievements were the crime bill and NAFTA.

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

honest question. if funding is mostly aimed at being paid by taxes on corporations and sliding scale taxes on the rich (which isnt new, just look from like 1930-1970s), how is that making life harder "for the rest of us"?

[tiderulz]

Back to Covid, does anybody think we have reached our peak at this juncture or does anybody think that daily numbers will increase? If we have reached our peak, does anyone think daily numbers will drop and when. Me, I think we are close to peak and may stay around that for another 2 weeks before dropping, hopefully, if we stay on the path of keeping people at home. I just think that alot of people are going to be losing homes soon. I noticed alot of housing becoming cheaper already.

i think we may have reached a peak, but if we go back to business as normal, i could see it rise again

[Optimus_Steel]

Watch on YouTube

This mix is fireeeeeeeeee

[spinedoc]

Back to Covid, does anybody think we have reached our peak at this juncture or does anybody think that daily numbers will increase? If we have reached our peak, does anyone think daily numbers will drop and when. Me, I think we are close to peak and may stay around that for another 2 weeks before dropping, hopefully, if we stay on the path of keeping people at home. I just think that alot of people are going to be losing homes soon. I noticed alot of housing becoming cheaper already.

i think we may have reached a peak, but if we go back to business as normal, i could see it rise again

I believe the answer is painfully obvious. Normalcy won't come back until we have mass testing. Think when it becomes as easy as a take home pregnancy test, then it will start to look somewhat normal, or until a vaccine in 12-18 months of course. Opening the country at the end of April is a non-starter. Shh, the models that have best case scenario of 60K dead go until the end of May. That's my problem, the malfunction isn't just January and February where enough wasn't done, its still going on and will so for several months it appears. How about having enough PPE and tests so people can get elective surgeries now? Doctors offices and surgery centers need to go first, stabilize them before thinking about anything else. Restaurants, bars, movie theaters, and gyms, won't be back for a very long time. We have a lot of people that have not been infected yet, this can spark back up in a hurry.

[BadMofoPimp]

Are you against universal healthcare?

So you are against social security, medicaid and medicare, roads and highways, the police and military, public schools, food stamps, tax credits for homeowners or those with dependents (children), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... These are all social programs. Believe it or not, there are societal needs that the private sector is wholly incapable of providing. Social programs, to some extent or another, are an absolute necessity.

I hate to break this to you, but... you are not a moderate. You betray yourself damned near every time you post. Moderates don't abuse the word 'socialism' to throw out blanket attacks or accuse everyone that they disagree with as CNN-watching sheep. Everything is relative. Your perspective is why the left seems extreme to you. Both parties are far to the right on economics, which is basically all that matters. Bill Clinton was paraded as a political paradigm for the democratic party because he won two terms, but his major achievements were the crime bill and NAFTA.

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

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Depends on the cost. Obamacare alone increased my monthly by 75% and increased my deductable from $500 to $5000. So, if it came down to it, I would rather do without. I am against great increases in cost only to have worse care for the people overall. Like in Britain where people have to wait 6 months for a procedure that an American can get in days or weeks. I personally know Canadians that come to America for healthcare even.

But, we have to find a way to be able to take care of everyone. Thus, I would like to find a way for healthcare for everyone but an honest system where we don't pay out the arse for it. Maybe, universal for those who cannot afford it as an option.

[BadMofoPimp]

So you are against social security, medicaid and medicare, roads and highways, the police and military, public schools, food stamps, tax credits for homeowners or those with dependents (children), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... These are all social programs. Believe it or not, there are societal needs that the private sector is wholly incapable of providing. Social programs, to some extent or another, are an absolute necessity.

I hate to break this to you, but... you are not a moderate. You betray yourself damned near every time you post. Moderates don't abuse the word 'socialism' to throw out blanket attacks or accuse everyone that they disagree with as CNN-watching sheep. Everything is relative. Your perspective is why the left seems extreme to you. Both parties are far to the right on economics, which is basically all that matters. Bill Clinton was paraded as a political paradigm for the democratic party because he won two terms, but his major achievements were the crime bill and NAFTA.

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

honest question. if funding is mostly aimed at being paid by taxes on corporations and sliding scale taxes on the rich (which isnt new, just look from like 1930-1970s), how is that making life harder "for the rest of us"?

That is a nice pipe dream. We all know that taxes will most likely be heavily levied against the middle class.

[BadMofoPimp]

What do people think about mandatory Face Masks in public? I think they should amend it so that people must wear PPE when they go into any business setting like stores, gas stations (at pumps even), offices etc. But, not for walking a dog or exercising.

[spinedoc]

What do people think about mandatory Face Masks in public? I think they should amend it so that people must wear PPE when they go into any business setting. But, not for walking a dog or exercising.

I think its a good idea, keep your spit to yourself. My wife and I made masks this weekend, experimenting with different material. My favorite was a pillow case made from Egyptian cotton. Its a little tougher to breathe through, but you can tell it works better. It won't necessarily stop the virus, but it reduces the moist cloud coming from your mouth.

And pipe dream about middle class paying all the taxes? C'mon bro, you know that congress can target those taxes to anyone they want. Hint, one side is different than the other with regard to this issue. The information is at your fingertips.

[Xatticus]

Thankfully I don’t watch any of that BS along with all other cable news networks. You can look up trend lines all you want but the fundamentals of this economy are stronger than they have ever been in my lifetime, which is why I think we will recover fairly quickly from this. But time will be the judge on that.
Lowering the business tax rate was huge. Deregulation on a parallel path making it easier for companies is equally as important.

LOL, what are you 20? Its not the truth at all. Trump did not have the greatest economy in the history of this country. Its rhetoric that you gobble up. There have been other better economies. Why is it always the best ever with narcissists?

Since 1980 when has the economy been better than it was 2 months ago?

Trump's economic success is almost entirely just a PR campaign. There is nothing at all exceptional about the GDP growth rates during his presidency. Reagan had better years. George W. Bush had better years. The growth rate was significantly higher for almost the entirety of Clinton's presidency.

Inflation is intrinsic to our economy. This means that the GDP has to grow just to maintain itself. It also means that the numbers get bigger almost every year regardless of whether there is actual growth or not. For this reason, the vast majority of presidents can make the claim that the economy was bigger during their presidency than it was for any other previous president. That's all that is necessary for Trump to whip out his array of elementary school superlatives and anyone that wants to is going to buy into his rhetoric and regurgitate it.

The one area that Trump supporters keep pointing to is the stock market growth. It's an irritant to me that people conflate the stock market with the economy. These are not the same thing. If the economy was the NBA, the stock market would be fantasy basketball. The money in the stock market isn't there. It isn't real. If everyone tries to take their money out at the same time (as happened recently), the value plummets. The stock market doesn't really serve any real function other than that keeping your money there is a better alternative than the meager returns you get from a bank account and you can't just sit on your savings because of the aforementioned intrinsic inflation. Actual investment (IPOs or new stock offerings) is a very small portion of the transactions.

Lowering business tax rates can spur temporary growth, but it is a bad way to do it. As is deregulation. We have not cut spending. Lowering tax rates is effectively just a handout for corporations that results in nothing more than more debt. It's effectively like giving your credit card information to your neighbor so that he can make some home improvements. The value of your neighborhood might rise slightly, but it comes at the expense of massive debt that he isn't accountable for.

Deregulation means making something legal which was previously made illegal. After something goes terribly wrong, we put in new rules to prevent it from happening again. A perfect example is the housing crisis that nearly led to a banking collapse in 2008. Many individuals would love to roll back the regulations imposed in the aftermath because a lot of individuals made a lot of money on the housing bubble, but it would be asinine to allow it to happen again. This is why deregulation invariably creates a temporary bubble that ultimately leads to market-correcting recession.

We know what makes an economy grow: investment into technology, training, and capital. We know what makes a healthy economy that can withstand crises: a strong working class.

[Xatticus]

I am just so far agaist Socialism and the far left agenda that I would rather have an imbecile like Trump with him speaking his mind over the maniacs on the left. It is a sad state of affairs that we even have to choose like that, but there is only extreme right and left nowadays. I would rather they both work on moderate agreements.

So you are against social security, medicaid and medicare, roads and highways, the police and military, public schools, food stamps, tax credits for homeowners or those with dependents (children), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... These are all social programs. Believe it or not, there are societal needs that the private sector is wholly incapable of providing. Social programs, to some extent or another, are an absolute necessity.

I hate to break this to you, but... you are not a moderate. You betray yourself damned near every time you post. Moderates don't abuse the word 'socialism' to throw out blanket attacks or accuse everyone that they disagree with as CNN-watching sheep. Everything is relative. Your perspective is why the left seems extreme to you. Both parties are far to the right on economics, which is basically all that matters. Bill Clinton was paraded as a political paradigm for the democratic party because he won two terms, but his major achievements were the crime bill and NAFTA.

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

I don't know what to tell you, man. You lack the requisite knowledge to engage in this conversation. It just seems to me that the extent of your understanding is that everything is left versus right, you've picked your side, and anyone that doesn't agree with you is a socialistic, leftist extremist. You are tethered to this. You can't venture five feet out into the wilderness without getting yanked right back into that partisan bull.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

Is it a hangover from the Cold War and anti-communist/socialist propoganda of that era?

A lot of countries in Europe seem to be racing towards a perfect balance of capitalism and socialism. They also seem to be ahead on issues like climate change. It feels like an inevitable evolution, but America does like to be the wild west so they will probably be the last to change.

No, lol, you're thinking about it too much. They literally don't know the difference between the two, nor could they tell you what each of them means. So, they will interchange them like that. Its fascinating to watch. A library at their fingertips now, and hardly anyone uses it when they really need it. This mindset is all about makers and takers, which is steeped in racial connotations. We all know who they are really talking about when they say things like that. Of course, they are the earners and the entitled ones, while the other is the lazy people dependent on Government for a hand out. Sure, we fought this battle over Medicare and Social Security, but it really goes back to the civil war and reconstruction. You will usually hear the argument in there about "state's rights". Loosely translated to mean that they can treat their blacks anyway they want. They are against a centralized federal power telling them what to do. Of course, that also leads to the gun rights discussion and why we have a right to bear arms. Its for an overreaching federal government. Not realizing that we live in a Democracy where we the people are actually the government. Well, a Republic really, we choose people to represent us, close enough. There are a whole bunch more things stuck in that timeline, but a quick soup to nuts American history lesson.

+1,000,000

[tiderulz]

Are you against universal healthcare?

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

Depends on the cost. Obamacare alone increased my monthly by 75% and increased my deductable from $500 to $5000. So, if it came down to it, I would rather do without. I am against great increases in cost only to have worse care for the people overall. Like in Britain where people have to wait 6 months for a procedure that an American can get in days or weeks. I personally know Canadians that come to America for healthcare even.

But, we have to find a way to be able to take care of everyone. Thus, I would like to find a way for healthcare for everyone but an honest system where we don't pay out the arse for it. Maybe, universal for those who cannot afford it as an option.

this criticism of the British and Canadian health care is overblown. my company is global and i work with people from both places constantly. The only things that take a long time are elective/cosmetic, and even then none of them stated it took more than a month to schedule them. And that is outweighed by the care they get with normal healthcare needs. And they can easily go private to get those elective services done faster. kind of like how the US has medical tourism to Thailand, India, Mexico, for cheaper procedures.

now the pricing increases overall and deductibles, i can agree with. But i think market forces play a large role in that.

[tiderulz]

You act like all that is ONLY left agendas. Do you think highways, social security, medicaid, medicare, police, military, public schools and tax credits are not on the conservative agenda? And, the left wants to tax the hell out of all of us to bring you gifts. There has to be a middle point that benefits us all without knee capping us to make it happen. Socialism is not the answer, but some of the programs the far left propose are good. I don't disagree with all of them, but mainly in how they intend to implement them by making life harder for the rest of us to make them happen. Middle ground, not far left grounds.

honest question. if funding is mostly aimed at being paid by taxes on corporations and sliding scale taxes on the rich (which isnt new, just look from like 1930-1970s), how is that making life harder "for the rest of us"?

That is a nice pipe dream. We all know that taxes will most likely be heavily levied against the middle class.

why do we "know" this?