Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII

Neon1 · Post #141 » by **Neon1** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:04 pm

I bet if what I posted said....

"Well, Tobias averaged 16ppg in 24mpg pre-all star so post all star we upped his minutes to 38mpg and Tobias averaged 17ppg. Did he improve his scoring ability or did it get worse as the season went on?"

Somehow, I don't think he would have the same opinion as before. He would figured out and understand that one real quick.

RYgoBOOM · Post #142 » by **RYgoBOOM** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:16 pm

I need to make a sig for all the anti moe guys in here -___-

OrlandO · Post #143 » by **OrlandO** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:41 pm

NickAnderson · Post #144 » by **NickAnderson** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:48 pm

If Moe ends up like Ariza, that'd be great, every championship team needs a player like that..

Sent from my LG-LS970 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Orlwillbeback · Post #145 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:55 pm

How long did it take Ariza to start shooting jumpshots at a reasonable percentage? Is that how long it's going to take for Moe?

Post #146 » by **ChosenSavior** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:31 pm

OrlandO wrote::lol:

Post #147 » by **ChosenSavior** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:32 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:man this has been an entertaining page

It certainly has been. A sign that the season is almost here...

KingRobb02 · Post #148 » by **KingRobb02** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:32 pm

Neon1 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:Because sometime around 2010, Ariza figured out that scoring pays more than defending. Since then he has the worst shot selection in the NBA of anyone not named Swaggy P.

No, that is a case of HOUSTON seeing him make splash plays in a supporting role for LA and then they paid him to come to Houston and wanted him to be the man, a role he didn't have the skillset to play. They got enamored with his flashes and big splash plays that can make him look like Tracy McGrady for a play or three a game and overextended his role beyond his capabilities.

Trevor Ariza was the perfect championship role player, part of the cast, but he was so perfect in that role people thought he was even more then he was capable of being.

So now people reverse course and go too far underrating his ability only because he couldn't match what they wanted when they overrated him previous.

THIS example above is what is going to happen with Harkless here on this board because of too many people with all the Paul George,TMac stuff.

That would explain it if he hadn't been just as bad in New Orleans and Washington since then.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #149 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:53 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:How long did it take Ariza to start shooting jumpshots at a reasonable percentage? Is that how long it's going to take for Moe?

We dont live in a bubble.

The Real Dalic · Post #150 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:04 pm

ChosenSavior wrote:
OrlandO wrote::lol:

j-ragg · Post #151 » by **j-ragg** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:06 pm

I'd be ecstatic if Moe turned into Ariza.

The Real Dalic · Post #152 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:15 pm

It's weird reading some Harkless vs. Harris debates. It's almost like a political debate. Lol.

KingRobb02 · Post #153 » by **KingRobb02** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:20 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:How long did it take Ariza to start shooting jumpshots at a reasonable percentage? Is that how long it's going to take for Moe?

Wasn't really a time, it was just a contract year.
04-05: 31% <--- Rookie Season
05-06: 21% <--- Traded to Orlando at deadline
06-07: 31%
07-08: 28% <--- Traded to LA, missed most of the year
08-09: 35% <--- Contract year
09-10: 30% <--- Signed with Houston, back to reality
10-11: 29% <--- Houston saw enough, sent him to NO for C. Lee
11-12: 31%
12-13: 35% <---New Orleans trades him in a deal for Rashard Lewis's corpse. Couldn't start for a lottery team.

Last year was Ariza's only decent shooting year aside from the contract year. the common thread is that he was coming off the bench and had a ball dominant guard who didn't let him go all Nick Young on everybody. If Moe becomes this guy, I will be OK letting him walk.

KingRobb02 · Post #154 » by **KingRobb02** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:21 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:It's weird reading some Harkless vs. Harris debates. It's almost like a political debate. Lol.

I don't understand why it's a one or the other thing. this is the type of season where they both should be playing as much as possible.

The Real Dalic · Post #155 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:26 pm

I'm curious to find out what all of you guys here would consider a successful season for all of our young guys. What stat line would you guys consider successful for players like Harris, Harkless, Oladipo, Vucevic and our other young players?

Mine would be:

Harris 18ppg, 8reb, 3asts, 1blk, 0.5stl.
Harkless 12ppg, 6reb, 2asts, 1blk, 1.5stl. (If he starts)
Oladipo 14-16ppg, 4-6rebs, 5asts, 0.5blk, 2stl.
Vucevic 14 ppg, 12rebs, 2asts, 1blk, 0.3stl.

I really don't know what to give some of the other guys yet.

Neon1 · Post #156 » by **Neon1** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:52 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:That would explain it if he hadn't been just as bad in New Orleans and Washington since then.

He has had injuries taking away a lot of his athleticism since Houston. That post is in response to the poster saying that Ariza has been trying to be an offensive player since 09-10. That was true. By design, Houston for some odd reason thought he could be a #1 and have a breakout offensively.

Since Houston he fell back into his role and dropped his usage back down to where he should be http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... atr01.html , injuries have took a toll on him now, and like a lot of players that rely more on physical ability, more then basketball skill, he has taken a hit in efficiency.

The Real Dalic · Post #157 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:04 pm

Neon1 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:That would explain it if he hadn't been just as bad in New Orleans and Washington since then.

He has had injuries taking away a lot of his athleticism since Houston. That post is in response to the poster saying that Ariza has been trying to be an offensive player since 09-10. That was true. By design, Houston for some odd reason thought he could be a #1 and have a breakout offensively.

Since Houston he fell back into his role and dropped his usage back down to where he should be http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... atr01.html , injuries have took a toll on him now, and like a lot of players that rely more on physical ability, more then basketball skill, he has taken a hit in efficiency.

Yeah I'm sure that Ariza can get back to what he was in LA if he was fully healthy and had scorers around him. Which he has in Washington in Wall, Beal and Nene.

KingRobb02 · Post #158 » by **KingRobb02** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:06 pm

Neon1 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:That would explain it if he hadn't been just as bad in New Orleans and Washington since then.

He has had injuries taking away a lot of his athleticism since Houston. That post is in response to the poster saying that Ariza has been trying to be an offensive player since 09-10. That was true. By design, Houston for some odd reason thought he could be a #1 and have a breakout offensively.

Since Houston he fell back into his role and dropped his usage back down to where he should be http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... atr01.html , injuries have took a toll on him now, and like a lot of players that rely more on physical ability, more then basketball skill, he has taken a hit in efficiency.

Don't know if you realize it, but I was the poster who said that.

I really don't think Houston asked him to be anything close to a #1 guy. He was their 5th leading scorer when everyone was healthy. Martin averaged 21 and Aaron brooks averaged 20. Plus Scola and Landry averaged 16 apiece. The only one of those 4 to miss significant time was Martin. All of Ariza's bad habits came from Ariza.

Magicman125 · Post #159 » by **Magicman125** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:09 pm

I'd estimate their avgs to be around:

Harris: 38 mpg, 19.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 3 ast, 1 blk
Harkless: 32 mpg, 13 ppg, 5 rpg, 3 ast, 1 stl
Oladipo: 30 mpg, 16 ppg, 6 reb, 5 ast, 1.5 stl
Vucevic: 38 mpg, 13 ppg, 12 rpg, 1.5 ast, 0.5 blk

I'd be happy with all of these, but would hope for the ppg to come off of efficient FG%, which I expect from Vuc and Harris. I don't know what to expect in terms of shooting percentages with Oladipo and Harkless. I'd also only consider 5 apg for Oladipo successful if he's able to keep a decent Ast/TO ratio.

Neon1 · Post #160 » by **Neon1** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:12 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:How long did it take Ariza to start shooting jumpshots at a reasonable percentage? Is that how long it's going to take for Moe?

Wasn't really a time, it was just a contract year.
04-05: 31% <--- Rookie Season
05-06: 21% <--- Traded to Orlando at deadline
06-07: 31%
07-08: 28% <--- Traded to LA, missed most of the year
08-09: 35% <--- Contract year
09-10: 30% <--- Signed with Houston, back to reality
10-11: 29% <--- Houston saw enough, sent him to NO for C. Lee
11-12: 31%
12-13: 35% <---New Orleans trades him in a deal for Rashard Lewis's corpse. Couldn't start for a lottery team.

Last year was Ariza's only decent shooting year aside from the contract year. the common thread is that he was coming off the bench and had a ball dominant guard who didn't let him go all Nick Young on everybody. If Moe becomes this guy, I will be OK letting him walk.

All Nick Young? The guy takes 10.9 shots a game per36 for his career, Harkless took 10.3 shots per36 as a rookie, we all know Harkless isn't out there shooting all day, you are talking like Ariza is out there just firing shots with no concience.

That's a prime example of what I was talking about earlier with people creating a picture in their head (positive and negative) that is exaggerated from reality.