LBPTarHeel27 wrote:ezzzp wrote:LBPTarHeel27 wrote:
I also love the line "all entering or in the peak of their prime".
Iverson: Prime was finished.
Martin: Prime was finished.
Camby: End of Prime.
Miller: End of Prime.
Nene: Hadn't entered Prime.
Iverson: Prime was finished. averaged 24.8ppg/18.4 PER, 26ppg/20.9PER, 18.7ppg/15.9PER in those years
Martin: Prime was finished. was 26-30yrs old while there, that is the definition of prime years
Camby: End of Prime. had PER of 19.9, 19.1, 17.2 , 18.7 in those years
Miller: End of Prime. during that time averaged 13to14ppg/7to8apg/16-18PER range
Nene: Hadn't entered Prime. was 23 to 29 years old during his years in Denver under Karl
2012-13 57-25 (A Iguodala 28, K Faried 23, T Lawson 25, D Galinari 24, A Miller 36, Mozgov 26)
2011-12 38-28 (Faried 22, Aflalo 26, Nene 29, Billups 34, Smith 26, Gallinari 23, Mozgov 25, Lawson 24, Harringtn 32)
2010-11 50-32 (Aflalo 25, Nene 28, Billups 33, JR Smith 25, Gallinari 22, Mozgov 24, Ty Lawson 23, Harrington)
2009-10 53-29 (Aflalo 24, Melo 25, KMart 30, Nene 27, Billups 32, JR Smith 24, Ty Lawson 22, Anderson)
2008-09 54-28 (Iverson 31, Melo 24, KMart 29 , Nene 26, Billups 31, JR Smith 23, Anderson)
2007-08 50-32 (Iverson 30, Melo 23, KMart 28, Nene 25, Camby 31, JR Smith 22)
2006-07 45-37 (Iverson 29, Melo 22, KMart 27, Nene 24, A Miller 30, Camby 30, JR Smith 21)
2005-06 44-38 (Melo 21, Kmart 26 , Nene 23, A Miller 29, Camby 29)
While I appreciate you going through the effort to prove me wrong...I wrongly assumed you were referring to the years that all of those guys actually played together under Karl, not referring to Karl's entire tenure. In addition...I think the eye test on a few of those guys pretty clearly debunks the idea that they were in their prime. I'll give you Camby and Miller back but...
No numbers in the world can convince me that the Iverson that played for the Nuggets was the same Iverson that took Sixers to the Finals by himself. It's just not true.
You cannot honestly believe that just because Kenyon Martin was in a range of years that can sometimes be related to a players prime...that he was actually having his best years. Due to the fact that you decided to not use numbers in his defense, I'm guessing you already know this. On that same token, If 26-30 is prime...then by your definition, a lot of Nene's years were not in his prime. Also, from 23-26...Nene missed essentially 2 entire seasons and had another one that would be considered a down season. Nice prime.
Your initial point isn't wrong. We do not have the talent that those earlier Karl Denver teams had. I'm just not a fan of the reasoning. I think you can make a better case for his coach of the year season being a better indicator of what he might be able to do with our team. A lot of young guys that need direction (ala Faried, Lawson, Gallo, etc.). They had a 38 win season that was followed by a 57 win season. Then he leaves...and the fall right back in to the lottery. I don't know that he is going to be the guy that leads us to a title...but I also don't think that any coach we hire right now will. If we get there, it will be coach #3 that does it (most likely).
Regardless of who we end up with...I just love the fact that we are on track to get a real veteran coach. It WILL be an upgrade over Vaughn and it is going to be fun to watch. We are still a few years out from title contention but I think this team will be much more enjoyable to watch now.
It wasn't just to prove you wrong...but also for me to learn what type of teams Karl had coached in order to gauge his interest.
What the Denver years show is that he always had very good talent that included franchise caliber players and had an excellent mix of players in various stages of their career. That is the makeup that most GM's shoot for and coaches prefer. Seasoned experienced veterans such as Iverson and Billups mixed with young superstars like Carmelo.
I am skeptical of a coach of that calibre that has always coached stacked veteran teams publicly asking for a rebuild situation. One where his best player at the moment would be Nicola Vucevic and the majority of the team, 11 players - including all the key core, are under 25.
Why? Couldn't he just make a private call to Rob Hennigan? Would Hennigan not take George Karl's call? Why the public leveraging? This public approach is very odd, how can you not wonder if his interest in coaching Orlando is legitimate or if he's just using us as a bargaining chip to force Sacramento's hand. If Orlando replies with interest he just asks for the world and thus backs Orlando into a corner of paying up or losing face - all now in a very public context.
