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Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#141 » by NavalAviator94 » Fri Dec 7, 2018 4:45 am

BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
Skin wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:The good news is this type of transformation:

Spoiler:
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Can still be in the cards for Mo if he puts in the work in the weight room these next few offseasons. If he does and his intensity and engagement on defense gets better I'm confident that he can be a great defender in this league one day. && a very good offensive one too. Him getting bigger is really just going to help every facet of his game. Rebounding, Post position on offense and defense, etc.

Mighty Mo is definitely going to be a force once he fills out his man suit.

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He will be a force when in Year 4 of his rookie deal we decline his rookie option because we didn't give him minutes to develop and see what he has. Spends 4 years on the bench backing up Vuc.... leaves for greener pastures. Magic start Rebuild 4.0 in 2022-2023 with Martin's promise of a title by 2030 coming to fruition.



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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#142 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Fri Dec 7, 2018 5:26 am

NavalAviator94 wrote:
BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
Skin wrote:Mighty Mo is definitely going to be a force once he fills out his man suit.

Image


He will be a force when in Year 4 of his rookie deal we decline his rookie option because we didn't give him minutes to develop and see what he has. Spends 4 years on the bench backing up Vuc.... leaves for greener pastures. Magic start Rebuild 4.0 in 2022-2023 with Martin's promise of a title by 2030 coming to fruition.



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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#143 » by OrlandO » Fri Dec 7, 2018 7:16 am

Skin wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
Skin wrote:Yep, I just wanted this year to be a developmental year. Would've been nice to see Isaac make a big jump. Bamba playing 3rd fiddle to Gordon and Isaac. Would they take lumps? Sure... but at least the team is relying on their future core. Isaac just can't take a big jump with veterans like Evan and Vuc being main components.

If our future core is going to remain sticking with Evan and Vuc then we're in trouble. I don't care what their individual stats say...good or bad.

The failure to trade them has resulted in a blurred vision and false hopes.

lol this IS a developmental year. You just can't wrap your head around what development looks like for projects. I'll tell you what throwing BIG in the deep end together would look like... it would look like crap. They wouldn't just take lumps... they would be broken up in a year. Your future core would be obliterated before it even had a chance to take off. But if you can put them in a situation where they're making the playoffs... building good habits in roles they can handle instead of sabotaging each other in roles they can't handle... then you extend their shelf life on the team while they develop... that gives them time to align.

Vuc is playing like an all star, AG is playing well off him, Isaac is focusing on being an impact defender, we're in the playoff hunt, and Bamba looks like a project... if this holds up it will be a no-brainer for the front office to offer Vuc a 3 year deal. They're not going to be in a rush to start Bamba if it means making the game harder for AG and Isaac.

They wouldn't be broken up in a year. Contractually that would be impossible. Trade wise, that would be ridiculous to assume that WeHam would give up on them so quickly. They'd be taking lumps and it would be very acceptable... even if they were hypothetically losing, we could just as easily say they would be hypothetically having flashes of nice games here and there where they would be able to build confidence off their successes. At the end of the season we would be in position to snatch another top selection.

Playing off the bench and watching others is useful for a few games... maybe even a few weeks... but an entire season is ridiculous. You have coaches for providing the need to learn. Vets can help off the court. Sitting and watching provides minimal development in comparison to playing games.

Giving Vuc a new 3 year deal is just telling us that Bamba didn't need to be drafted and that WeHam failed in their evaluation of Vuc last year. If we loved him that much, then we should've then made a move to trade up in the draft.

I don't think BIG would survive long if they were tasked to carry the team soon. They would lose a lot and it wouldn't be pretty. Gordon still isn't a shot creator and Isaac/Bamba forcing up shots as 2nd/3rd options isn't a recipe for individual or team success. Defense would become an afterthought. Weltman's not going to have the patience for multiple seasons of that if he can help it as he's on the clock to produce a winner. I mean we already know he's not a true tanker... it's just logical to expect that he's not going to start being one in year 3 of his 5 year contract. Not to mention he's made it clear how he feels about developing young players "the right way" and not being too young while rebuilding.

An entire season off the bench for a project big is not unusual. If Bamba needs multiple seasons off the bench to become a good starter so be it. Not a big deal if Vuc is putting up 20/10/4 and we're making the playoffs. Not playing at all is bad for development. Consistent minutes off the bench not so much. Real development happens in the off season... and as we've learned from all our projects over the years it can be a slow process.

Bamba was best available due to his long term potential, not because he was starter-ready. Being a project is not what would make him a failed pick. What would make it a failure is if he never develops into a starter worth re-signing to a second contract. Vuc is 28 and playing like an all star... Bamba is a 20 year old project with potential. A 3 year deal for Vuc with Bamba developing to replace him near or at the end of it could be perfect for all parties involved.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#144 » by pepe1991 » Fri Dec 7, 2018 10:44 am

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The Philadelphia 76ers have worked out guards Arron Afflalo, Brandon Rush, and Sean Kilpatrick this week.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#145 » by Blue_and_Whte » Fri Dec 7, 2018 1:40 pm

NavalAviator94 wrote:
BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
Skin wrote:Mighty Mo is definitely going to be a force once he fills out his man suit.

Image


He will be a force when in Year 4 of his rookie deal we decline his rookie option because we didn't give him minutes to develop and see what he has. Spends 4 years on the bench backing up Vuc.... leaves for greener pastures. Magic start Rebuild 4.0 in 2022-2023 with Martin's promise of a title by 2030 coming to fruition.



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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#146 » by Knightro » Fri Dec 7, 2018 2:01 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#147 » by Knightro » Fri Dec 7, 2018 2:44 pm

1. The pivoty goodness of Nikola Vucevic
Almost no one strings together pivot moves with the whirring, balletic brilliance of Orlando Magic center Nikola Vucevic:

Oh, baby: three pivot moves in less than two seconds. Vucevic pivots middle searching out his righty jump hook. Deandre Ayton sticks with him. Vucevic then pivots inside for a Kevin McHale-style up-and-under. Ayton hangs, but straightens up onto his tippy-toes. And right there, Vucevic has him. Vucevic spins back into that same jump hook before Ayton can regain his footing.

That is a masterpiece. Vucevic has a little bit of McHale and Jack Sikma in him. "I didn't have that all mapped out," Vucevic says after I text him the clip. "I have an idea of what I'd like to do, and if they take that away, I have my counters."

Vucevic had good footwork as a kid, but he focused on pivot moves when he discovered he couldn't just shoot over NBA centers, he says. He watched film of footwork masters, including Kobe Bryant.

He doesn't need to blow by defenders, or fake them off their feet. Tipping them a hair off balance is enough. When Vucevic pivots into defenders' bodies, some instinctively back away just enough for him to flick a hook over them.

"I try to use my pivots to create a little space," he says. It helps that he's nearly ambidextrous. Whatever window you reveal, Vucevic can sneak the ball through it.

The one downside of bobbing under and around defenders instead of powering through them: Vucevic rarely gets to the foul line. That's one reason Orlando has scored at a middling rate when Vucevic posts up, though some of that is due to teammates missing open looks when opponents double him, per Second Spectrum. He can also pivot himself into the ground. "Sometimes I get stuck," he says.

Vucevic has actually been more efficient on drives, and fakery helps him there, too. He stops on a dime, fakes a shot, waits for defenders to fly by, and pivots into his counter.

Vucevic is shooting 55 percent overall, and 41 percent from deep. He is the fulcrum of an Orlando offense that ranks 12th in points per possession since Nov. 1. (Anything above average counts as a minor miracle for the Magic. They have ranked 22nd or worse every season since 2011-12.)

They fall apart whenever he sits. Orlando has outscored opponents by 4.5 points per 100 possessions with Vucevic on the floor, but opponents have obliterated them by almost a dozen points per 100 possessions when he rests. The difference -- plus-16.2 -- is the 11th-fattest among all rotation players, per NBA.com.

Vucevic ranks seventh overall in player efficiency rating, snug between LeBron James and James Harden. Orlando is 12-13 against the toughest schedule of any Eastern Conference team so far. If they hang around .500, Vucevic may garner enough support for his first All-Star appearance. He's deserving.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25470903/10-things-like-including-bucks-weakness-nba

The No. 1 entry in Zach Lowe's 10 Things column this week features non other than Nik Vucevic.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#148 » by Blue_and_Whte » Fri Dec 7, 2018 2:55 pm

Knightro wrote:1. The pivoty goodness of Nikola Vucevic
Almost no one strings together pivot moves with the whirring, balletic brilliance of Orlando Magic center Nikola Vucevic:

Oh, baby: three pivot moves in less than two seconds. Vucevic pivots middle searching out his righty jump hook. Deandre Ayton sticks with him. Vucevic then pivots inside for a Kevin McHale-style up-and-under. Ayton hangs, but straightens up onto his tippy-toes. And right there, Vucevic has him. Vucevic spins back into that same jump hook before Ayton can regain his footing.

That is a masterpiece. Vucevic has a little bit of McHale and Jack Sikma in him. "I didn't have that all mapped out," Vucevic says after I text him the clip. "I have an idea of what I'd like to do, and if they take that away, I have my counters."

Vucevic had good footwork as a kid, but he focused on pivot moves when he discovered he couldn't just shoot over NBA centers, he says. He watched film of footwork masters, including Kobe Bryant.

He doesn't need to blow by defenders, or fake them off their feet. Tipping them a hair off balance is enough. When Vucevic pivots into defenders' bodies, some instinctively back away just enough for him to flick a hook over them.

"I try to use my pivots to create a little space," he says. It helps that he's nearly ambidextrous. Whatever window you reveal, Vucevic can sneak the ball through it.

The one downside of bobbing under and around defenders instead of powering through them: Vucevic rarely gets to the foul line. That's one reason Orlando has scored at a middling rate when Vucevic posts up, though some of that is due to teammates missing open looks when opponents double him, per Second Spectrum. He can also pivot himself into the ground. "Sometimes I get stuck," he says.

Vucevic has actually been more efficient on drives, and fakery helps him there, too. He stops on a dime, fakes a shot, waits for defenders to fly by, and pivots into his counter.

Vucevic is shooting 55 percent overall, and 41 percent from deep. He is the fulcrum of an Orlando offense that ranks 12th in points per possession since Nov. 1. (Anything above average counts as a minor miracle for the Magic. They have ranked 22nd or worse every season since 2011-12.)

They fall apart whenever he sits. Orlando has outscored opponents by 4.5 points per 100 possessions with Vucevic on the floor, but opponents have obliterated them by almost a dozen points per 100 possessions when he rests. The difference -- plus-16.2 -- is the 11th-fattest among all rotation players, per NBA.com.

Vucevic ranks seventh overall in player efficiency rating, snug between LeBron James and James Harden. Orlando is 12-13 against the toughest schedule of any Eastern Conference team so far. If they hang around .500, Vucevic may garner enough support for his first All-Star appearance. He's deserving.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25470903/10-things-like-including-bucks-weakness-nba

The No. 1 entry in Zach Lowe's 10 Things column this week features non other than Nik Vucevic.
Well deserved. Of course there are some around here who hate that hes succeeding but they're aren't real Magic fans anyway.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#149 » by JBSouthpaw » Fri Dec 7, 2018 3:12 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
I’m talking about championships. You are arguing that the most talented teams don’t win championships? The leagues most talented teams nearly always win or are competing for championships. They always have top 5 players at least. Boston is adjusting to Hayward coming back and they will figure it out.

Look at Philly last year? Arguably two elite players in Simmons and Embiid. Those players were drafted in the top 5. Not seeing your point.

2 elite players drafted top 5, aren't competing for Champ. should they tank?

No, learn to win and get better.


Two young elite players that just acquired Jimmy Butler because of their obvious potential. They are competing for the eastern conference. Nowhere did I talk about tanking in any of my responses, just that living in the middle without elite talent gets you nowhere.

I agree with that point, LIVING in the middle...We're trying to get to the middle, our Cap situation, to me shows that management isn't satisfied with staying there. Worst case, this off-season, we'll have 40M in Cap, and some decent picks.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#150 » by rcklsscognition » Fri Dec 7, 2018 3:15 pm

That play in Phoenix Vuc pulled off was a freaking masterpiece.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#151 » by woosah » Fri Dec 7, 2018 4:00 pm

The pivoty goodness? lol We thought we had a nice little gem in Vucevic in the Dwight trade, but who knew he'd be a possible allstar. I really hope he gets it this year.

Laker fans on their board here and other ones want Vuc. It's so annoying when they throw out trade scenarios for little to nothing, then act like Vuc has no worth, yet they are talking about throwing big money at him if they strike out. The fear is real they may strike out since KD's comments, so they want him so they can still have cap and to resign him with bird rights. F them. Let them spend their cap if they want him lol.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#152 » by NavalAviator94 » Fri Dec 7, 2018 8:05 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:2 elite players drafted top 5, aren't competing for Champ. should they tank?

No, learn to win and get better.


Two young elite players that just acquired Jimmy Butler because of their obvious potential. They are competing for the eastern conference. Nowhere did I talk about tanking in any of my responses, just that living in the middle without elite talent gets you nowhere.

I agree with that point, LIVING in the middle...We're trying to get to the middle, our Cap situation, to me shows that management isn't satisfied with staying there. Worst case, this off-season, we'll have 40M in Cap, and some decent picks.


Unfortunately we won't have $40m. I believe we will have the ability to get to around $26m.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#153 » by Knightro » Fri Dec 7, 2018 8:09 pm

NavalAviator94 wrote:Unfortunately we won't have $40m. I believe we will have the ability to get to around $26m.


There are ways to get closer to 40M.

I am working under the assumption that the Magic will (if they don't flip him for an expiring) stretch Mozgov's 16.7M into three 5.56M cap hits.

That alone will open up 11.14M in additional cap space right there. Bringing that 24M to over 35M.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#154 » by SOUL » Fri Dec 7, 2018 10:48 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#155 » by Tarheel » Fri Dec 7, 2018 11:03 pm

Shame, would have liked to see us move for Hill.

Big package though, Henson, Delly, a FRP and a SRP. Wouldn’t have wanted to beat that for him. Bucks save a wedge next year now.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#156 » by magicman112 » Fri Dec 7, 2018 11:17 pm

Tarheel wrote:Shame, would have liked to see us move for Hill.

Big package though, Henson, Delly, a FRP and a SRP. Wouldn’t have wanted to beat that for him. Bucks save a wedge next year now.


Yeah Hill is a decent player but a second AND a first and two players? Yeah a bit steep.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#157 » by OrlandO » Fri Dec 7, 2018 11:21 pm

Bucks lock up their guard rotation for the playoffs and also clear space for a big free agent (hill only guaranteed 1m next season vs delly/hensons 20m combined). Henson had wrist surgery, so probably not a huge loss even though they're thin at backup C.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#158 » by Knightro » Fri Dec 7, 2018 11:49 pm

Good move for both sides.

Bucks shed a bunch of unwanted salary which should allow them to give Middleton a massive extension without exploding into the luxury tax.

Cavs get a couple of draft picks for their 2019 cap space.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#159 » by woosah » Sat Dec 8, 2018 6:05 am

Our gms watching paint dry still evaluating...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#160 » by pepe1991 » Sat Dec 8, 2018 9:10 am

woosah wrote:Our gms watching paint dry still evaluating...


Gotta evaluate Grant man.
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