Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

[MagicFan101]

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For those still talking Westbrook

[MasterGMer]

No way to do this trade with Minnesota. No way.

[tiderulz]

Culver was statistically one of the worst players in the NBA.

He wasn’t. Minnesota was fine with him on the floor. Bad players make their teams worse. He shot poorly, but improved as the season wore on. I’d do it. He has no place in Minnesota at this point. He’ll be solid defensively. I was really impressed with him when I watched him in college. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s good value.

I wouldn't put too much value in on /off court when team he plays has 19-45 record.

His RPM of -1,78 make him 85th ranked SG in nba.

His RAPTOR shows he is both offensive and defensive negative value.
His win share is negative.
His RAPTOR data is -3,8, witch means, among 255 players who played at least 1000 min in nba, he was 14# worst.

To be fair, he is rookie, and most of other players worst than him are also- rookies.
But i really struggle to find value in him. He is shooting guard who also can't shoot, pass, handle the ball nor defend. Where value for playing him will come from ?

For crying out loud, he can't even shoot 50% FTs .

It's not gamble, gambler play with assumption they can win, in this case this is classic example of draft bust who had solid sophmore college year, yet if you dig deeper writing of his limitations was on the wall, but scours acted blind on it.

At college he was 6'6 shooting gaurd that was shooting over opponents ( but never actually was good at shooting, 30% in second year for 3) , in nba he lacks speed, verticality, leaping or quickness to be player that will take guys off dribble, and in same time he is pathetic shooter to even be worth covering ( 46% FT shooter )

Watch on YouTube

Guy year before nailed it. ( and got lot of crap for it in comments and dislikes ). He simply isn't REALLY good at anything, actually never was.
In year 1 he shot ugly but shot 38% for 3, in year 2 he reworked shot ,looked more pleasing to eye, but couldn't shoot ( 30% for 3) , entered NBA without any sort of jumpshot. Translated into his complete inability to shoot from any range in nba, including FT%.

Pretty much two- guard who can't play with ball, but also has no purpose off ball. Hard pass for me ( and T wolves who figured he is not nba level player after few months and traded for Malik Beasley, who actually can play basketball and who i cried for a trade for like year ).

i watched a lot of Culvers games. he was good at defense at TT. often taking on the opposing teams best players. And he played in the Big 12, not the MEAC. he didnt "tower" over opposing guards, they were the same size or even an inch or two taller. also had almost 4 apg so yes, he could play with the ball.

[Xatticus]

Culver was statistically one of the worst players in the NBA.

He wasn’t. Minnesota was fine with him on the floor. Bad players make their teams worse. He shot poorly, but improved as the season wore on. I’d do it. He has no place in Minnesota at this point. He’ll be solid defensively. I was really impressed with him when I watched him in college. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s good value.

He had a negative in every advanced stat that we track. He shot less than 30% from 3 and 46% from the free throw line. He played over 1500 minutes so it wasn't a extremely small sample size.

If AG for 17 and Culver meant trading everyone else and blowing it up, fine I'm down. But if the standard operating procedure of afk 8/9 seed is still on-going, I rather have AG.

I assume you are referring to his shooting percentages? The advanced metrics didn't like him much, but they weren't really terrible.

-1.66 PIPM
-1.70 RPM
-3.76 RAPTOR

Regardless, he wasn't one of the worst players in the NBA.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612750&VsPlayerID=1629633

The team was better when he was on the floor (-3.3 netrtg) than when he wasn't (-5.1). If he was awful, that wouldn't be the case.

You can contrast him with Okogie, who filled a similar role. Those were the two players that played the most minutes for Minnesota. Both were in and out of the starting lineup. Everything favors Culver over Okogie. I get why you wouldn't be enthused by his stat line, but if you dig into the numbers, he wasn't why Minnesota was bad.

[tiderulz]

I keep hearing Culver. But what is he? What does he do for us? Is he aPG/SG/SF? Scorer or defender? etc etc

He's a 2/3. He is probably more 2 than 3. He is a defender. He has plus size and decent athleticism for a 2. He is not entirely raw offensively, but he shot very poorly last year. He really struggled at the free throw line, which is a bit concerning. Still, he was the centerpiece of the Texas Tech team that went all the way to the title game. They were the best defensive team in the country and their offense ran through him. It seems as though he is going to get squeezed out of their rotation due to the additions of Beasley and their top pick in this year's draft. His stock is down a bit right now and it won't climb back up if that is the case, so Minnesota might be willing to move him. They have another really good perimeter, on-ball defender in Okogie that gives them similar contributions. Culver is the better prospect though.

Hmmm.. so a defensive sg/sf player that is not good offensively? *sigh* that sounds sooooo familiar to me.

well, that was Jimmy Butler too.

[Ducklett]

He wasn’t. Minnesota was fine with him on the floor. Bad players make their teams worse. He shot poorly, but improved as the season wore on. I’d do it. He has no place in Minnesota at this point. He’ll be solid defensively. I was really impressed with him when I watched him in college. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s good value.

He had a negative in every advanced stat that we track. He shot less than 30% from 3 and 46% from the free throw line. He played over 1500 minutes so it wasn't a extremely small sample size.

If AG for 17 and Culver meant trading everyone else and blowing it up, fine I'm down. But if the standard operating procedure of afk 8/9 seed is still on-going, I rather have AG.

I assume you are referring to his shooting percentages? The advanced metrics didn't like him much, but they weren't really terrible.

-1.66 PIPM
-1.70 RPM
-3.76 RAPTOR

Regardless, he wasn't one of the worst players in the NBA.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612750&VsPlayerID=1629633

The team was better when he was on the floor (-3.3 netrtg) than when he wasn't (-5.1). If he was awful, that wouldn't be the case.

You can contrast him with Okogie, who filled a similar role. Those were the two players that played the most minutes for Minnesota. Both were in and out of the starting lineup. Everything favors Culver over Okogie. I get why you wouldn't be enthused by his stat line, but if you dig into the numbers, he wasn't why Minnesota was bad.

"His RAPTOR data is -3,8, witch means, among 255 players who played at least 1000 min in nba, he was 14# worst."

You don't consider 14th worst to be one of the worst? lol

Like I said, I am ambivalent towards trading for him. Maybe he will turn out good maybe not. But his rookie season stats show a pretty scuffed player.

And 46% free throw shooting is Dwight bad.

[Xatticus]

He wasn’t. Minnesota was fine with him on the floor. Bad players make their teams worse. He shot poorly, but improved as the season wore on. I’d do it. He has no place in Minnesota at this point. He’ll be solid defensively. I was really impressed with him when I watched him in college. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s good value.

I wouldn't put too much value in on /off court when team he plays has 19-45 record.

His RPM of -1,78 make him 85th ranked SG in nba.

His RAPTOR shows he is both offensive and defensive negative value.
His win share is negative.
His RAPTOR data is -3,8, witch means, among 255 players who played at least 1000 min in nba, he was 14# worst.

To be fair, he is rookie, and most of other players worst than him are also- rookies.
But i really struggle to find value in him. He is shooting guard who also can't shoot, pass, handle the ball nor defend. Where value for playing him will come from ?

For crying out loud, he can't even shoot 50% FTs .

It's not gamble, gambler play with assumption they can win, in this case this is classic example of draft bust who had solid sophmore college year, yet if you dig deeper writing of his limitations was on the wall, but scours acted blind on it.

At college he was 6'6 shooting gaurd that was shooting over opponents ( but never actually was good at shooting, 30% in second year for 3) , in nba he lacks speed, verticality, leaping or quickness to be player that will take guys off dribble, and in same time he is pathetic shooter to even be worth covering ( 46% FT shooter )

Watch on YouTube

Guy year before nailed it. ( and got lot of crap for it in comments and dislikes ). He simply isn't REALLY good at anything, actually never was.
In year 1 he shot ugly but shot 38% for 3, in year 2 he reworked shot ,looked more pleasing to eye, but couldn't shoot ( 30% for 3) , entered NBA without any sort of jumpshot. Translated into his complete inability to shoot from any range in nba, including FT%.

Pretty much two- guard who can't play with ball, but also has no purpose off ball. Hard pass for me ( and T wolves who figured he is not nba level player after few months and traded for Malik Beasley, who actually can play basketball and who i cried for a trade for like year ).

i watched a lot of Culvers games. he was good at defense at TT. often taking on the opposing teams best players. And he played in the Big 12, not the MEAC. he didnt "tower" over opposing guards, they were the same size or even an inch or two taller. also had almost 4 apg so yes, he could play with the ball.

Yeah. I watched him wreck my team. He was the guy. That team looked so good.

[Skin]

I would rather trade AG and Evan for Westbrook... and I'm not keen on trading for Westbrook to begin with.

I would love a trade for Westbrook without giving Vuc up.

As for Culver, isn't that what a lot of this fanbase wants in trades? A young player, who hasn't been in the league long, who hasn't been given a bunch of time to play and fully show what he can do as well as get a pick? I wouldn't mind taking the flyer. But I also would try to get more before I pull the trigger. It would be more like a last resort.

Personally, I would try to get Beasley from the Wolves instead. Something like AG and Fournier for Beasley, Culver, and #17 if we could somehow make that work. That would be the type of deal I'd be looking for.

I want young players that have the potential to score efficiently and in big volumes

Jayden Scrubb

[RookieStar]

I keep hearing Culver. But what is he? What does he do for us? Is he aPG/SG/SF? Scorer or defender? etc etc

I think he's more of a defensive young bench player that plays mostly the 2. He could grow into something more offensively though.

So.. defense and here's hoping he develops and offense? *sigh*

[pepe1991]

he shot 24% for 3 in conference play in college.
He was always trainwrack as shooter...

NBA just exposed how bad he is at it.

At end of a day he is 6th overall draft pick who's only strenght is team defense. And there is yet single proof he is actually plus defender. Just that he isn't worthless. But that's also only positive anybody can say about him.

6'6- unathletic , poor passing- no jumpshot shooting guard. Might as well keep Iwundu?

[Xatticus]

He had a negative in every advanced stat that we track. He shot less than 30% from 3 and 46% from the free throw line. He played over 1500 minutes so it wasn't a extremely small sample size.

If AG for 17 and Culver meant trading everyone else and blowing it up, fine I'm down. But if the standard operating procedure of afk 8/9 seed is still on-going, I rather have AG.

I assume you are referring to his shooting percentages? The advanced metrics didn't like him much, but they weren't really terrible.

-1.66 PIPM
-1.70 RPM
-3.76 RAPTOR

Regardless, he wasn't one of the worst players in the NBA.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612750&VsPlayerID=1629633

The team was better when he was on the floor (-3.3 netrtg) than when he wasn't (-5.1). If he was awful, that wouldn't be the case.

You can contrast him with Okogie, who filled a similar role. Those were the two players that played the most minutes for Minnesota. Both were in and out of the starting lineup. Everything favors Culver over Okogie. I get why you wouldn't be enthused by his stat line, but if you dig into the numbers, he wasn't why Minnesota was bad.

"His RAPTOR data is -3,8, witch means, among 255 players who played at least 1000 min in nba, he was 14# worst."

You don't consider 14th worst to be one of the worst? lol

Like I said, I am ambivalent towards trading for him. Maybe he will turn out good maybe not. But his rookie season stats show a pretty scuffed player.

And 46% free throw shooting is Dwight bad.

I don't put much stock in RAPTOR relative to PIPM or RPM simply because it is heavily weighted towards box score stats (like... 85-90%). If you look at the on/off portion, he was positive value, but that accounts for very little in the final value. This means his lineups outperformed what you would've expected given the other players on the floor with him. I care about how the team performs when a player is on the floor. Stated simply: if a player is actually good, then you should outscore the opposition when said player is on the floor. Conversely, if a player is bad, then the team should be outscored by the opposition when they are out there. I linked his on/off stats. Look at the link.

[pepe1991]

He wasn’t. Minnesota was fine with him on the floor. Bad players make their teams worse. He shot poorly, but improved as the season wore on. I’d do it. He has no place in Minnesota at this point. He’ll be solid defensively. I was really impressed with him when I watched him in college. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s good value.

I wouldn't put too much value in on /off court when team he plays has 19-45 record.

His RPM of -1,78 make him 85th ranked SG in nba.

His RAPTOR shows he is both offensive and defensive negative value.
His win share is negative.
His RAPTOR data is -3,8, witch means, among 255 players who played at least 1000 min in nba, he was 14# worst.

To be fair, he is rookie, and most of other players worst than him are also- rookies.
But i really struggle to find value in him. He is shooting guard who also can't shoot, pass, handle the ball nor defend. Where value for playing him will come from ?

For crying out loud, he can't even shoot 50% FTs .

It's not gamble, gambler play with assumption they can win, in this case this is classic example of draft bust who had solid sophmore college year, yet if you dig deeper writing of his limitations was on the wall, but scours acted blind on it.

At college he was 6'6 shooting gaurd that was shooting over opponents ( but never actually was good at shooting, 30% in second year for 3) , in nba he lacks speed, verticality, leaping or quickness to be player that will take guys off dribble, and in same time he is pathetic shooter to even be worth covering ( 46% FT shooter )

Watch on YouTube

Guy year before nailed it. ( and got lot of crap for it in comments and dislikes ). He simply isn't REALLY good at anything, actually never was.
In year 1 he shot ugly but shot 38% for 3, in year 2 he reworked shot ,looked more pleasing to eye, but couldn't shoot ( 30% for 3) , entered NBA without any sort of jumpshot. Translated into his complete inability to shoot from any range in nba, including FT%.

Pretty much two- guard who can't play with ball, but also has no purpose off ball. Hard pass for me ( and T wolves who figured he is not nba level player after few months and traded for Malik Beasley, who actually can play basketball and who i cried for a trade for like year ).

i watched a lot of Culvers games. he was good at defense at TT. often taking on the opposing teams best players. And he played in the Big 12, not the MEAC. he didnt "tower" over opposing guards, they were the same size or even an inch or two taller. also had almost 4 apg so yes, he could play with the ball.

And Kaminsky and Napier were gods of college hoops, so who cares?
The thing is, he was 30% 3 point shooter at college, who preformed even worst against conference teams ( 24% for 3).
He avearged 4 apg due usage, in nba he is almsot close to 1 turnover to 1 assist rate.

IN NBA he flat out can't shoot . From any range, including beyond pathetic for shooting guard FT% and abysmal mid range percentages. It's so abd that him being pretty terrible 3 point shooter is "best" part of his game

Dude is busting out harder than Okafor . He is shooting guard that has no usage as ballhandler and can't shoot. What execlly he can do in NBA ? Defend? Good, i'll keep Iwundu for purpose of being boring on ball defender and 14th men in rotation. At least he won't cost me $6M a year.

[Knightro]

Pepe making the same argument he made against Trae Young when he was a rookie and the same argument he's made against Cam Reddish as well. You'd think you'd have learned by now...

Trae Young had one of the worst November's a player can possibly have, shooting .355 from the floor and .198 from three during his rookie year. As that one horrendous month submarined Young's whole season, Pepe took victory lap after victory lap.

But Pepe ignored that Trae Young got progressively better as the year went on, shooting .433 from the floor and .353 from three after January 1. And then in year 2 in the most predictable of twists, Young didn't have a horrendously bad month and his TS% skyrocketed from where it was as a rookie.

Cam Reddish? Same thing.

The guy shot .287 from the floor and .213 from three in October and November. He was absolutely pathetic. But after that? What do you know! .445 from the floor and .397 from three after January 1st.

Sometimes rookies just get off to absolutely terrible starts as they get acclimated to the league and it completely submarines their stats as rookies.

It sure looks like applies to Jarrett Culver as well. He got off to an absolutely rotten start and then started to settle in once he got his legs under him.

His first 30 games: .360 FG% and .235 3PT
His final 33 games: .438 FG% and .350 3PT
His final 15 games: .470 FG% and .386 3PT

[MagicFan101]

No one is suggesting Culver is a savior. There is a reason we would keep the #15 pick and would get another FRP back in the deal. He is a very intriguing young addition to a larger deal.

[Skin]

Are there any legs to this Culver talk or is this forum talk?

[Bensational]

Pepe making the same argument he made against Trae Young when he was a rookie and the same argument he's made against Cam Reddish as well. You'd think you'd have learned by now...

Trae Young had one of the worst November's a player can possibly have, shooting .355 from the floor and .198 from three during his rookie year. As that one horrendous month submarined Young's whole season, Pepe took victory lap after victory lap.

But Pepe ignored that Trae Young got progressively better as the year went on, shooting .433 from the floor and .353 from three after January 1. And then in year 2 the most predictable of twists, Young didn't have a horrendously bad month and his TS% skyrocketed from where it was as a rookie.

Cam Reddish? Same thing.

The guy shot .287 from the floor and .213 from three in October and November. He was absolutely pathetic. But after that? What do you know! .445 from the floor and .397 from three after January 1st.

Sometimes rookies just get off to absolutely terrible starts as they get acclimated to the league and it completely submarines their stats as rookies.

It sure looks like applies to Jarrett Culver as well. He got off to an absolutely rotten start and then started to settle in once he got his legs under him.

His first 30 games: .360 FG% and .235 3PT
His final 33 games: .438 FG% and .350 3PT
His final 15 games: .470 FG% and .386 3PT

Just wait til he dusts off the 'career numbers' to discuss what a player looks like today...

[RookieStar]

He's a 2/3. He is probably more 2 than 3. He is a defender. He has plus size and decent athleticism for a 2. He is not entirely raw offensively, but he shot very poorly last year. He really struggled at the free throw line, which is a bit concerning. Still, he was the centerpiece of the Texas Tech team that went all the way to the title game. They were the best defensive team in the country and their offense ran through him. It seems as though he is going to get squeezed out of their rotation due to the additions of Beasley and their top pick in this year's draft. His stock is down a bit right now and it won't climb back up if that is the case, so Minnesota might be willing to move him. They have another really good perimeter, on-ball defender in Okogie that gives them similar contributions. Culver is the better prospect though.

Hmmm.. so a defensive sg/sf player that is not good offensively? *sigh* that sounds sooooo familiar to me.

well, that was Jimmy Butler too.

Well... there is that. Then again Im a Magic fan and for me that's Wes, Frazier JI ( jury is still out ), Bamba ( same jury ) lol

[Dub_Sax]

No one is suggesting Culver is a savior. There is a reason we would keep the #15 pick and would get another FRP back in the deal. He is a very intriguing young addition to a larger deal.

Not interested in taking getting a SG who shoots 46% from the free throw line

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4277928/jarrett-culver

Sent from my SM-G955U using RealGM mobile app

[RookieStar]

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For those still talking Westbrook

LOLZ for both teams

[OrlChamps2030]

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For those still talking Westbrook

LOLZ for both teams

Wizards with Westbrook are another team that easily surpasses this magic team in the playoff standings imo