The Jalen Suggs Thread

[pepe1991]

And in contrast of Celtics, who's Marcus Smat, is 85th percentile ballhandler

You’re right that Marcus Smart is an 85th percentile pick and roll ball handler this year.

He’s also turning 29 years old in about two weeks and in his 9th NBA season.

Want to take a guess where he ranked as a PNR ball handler his entire rookie contract? Spoiler: he wasn’t very good at it.

2015: NBA.com doesn’t keep data this far back, but presumably it was not good as Smart had a meh rookie year
2016: 49th percentile
2017: 25th percentile
2018: 41st percentile
2019: 49th percentile

In 2020, his 6th NBA season did Smart finally crack the code and figure out how to do it at a high level.

2020: 87th percentile
2021: 70th percentile
2022: 23rd percentile
2023: 84th percentile

It’s almost like it’s silly to compare players in year 2 with players in year 9 and equally silly to assume guys in year 2 won’t actually get better.

My opinion on Marcus Smart has been low since... forever.
I think he darling of their fans because he plays hard and they just happend to ignore fact that his entire life as nba pro he plays with allstar guards next to him. Isaiah Thomas, Brown; Hayward, Irving, Walker. 5 different allstars.


It's he is their Derrick Fisher. System guy who would not be able to start on most other teams that require " normal" skills from PG.

But much like it was case with Fisher, Celtics are so damn stacked on offense at other positions ( 3 players were allstars in starting 5, two of them are current allstars, among them 1 is top 5 player ) that it simply doesn't matter.

Imo, you put Marcus Smart on some random Sacramento Kings/ Pistons team, and you don't know who he is, he would probably end up being bench player for rest of his career.
There is so much of fake hype about his defense that it's hilarious. Stat vise, he wasn't even best defender last year on his own damn team. It was Robert Williams.

Zach Lowe didn't even consider him top 3 best defenders in DPOY last year.

Tom Haberstroh about Smart's DPOY award

"It is egregious that Marcus Smart in 2022 is considered the best defensive player of the year," Haberstroh said. "I don't understand what exactly happened here beyond the fact that Robert Williams got hurt. Because on March 22, Marcus Smart was +4000, eighth-place odds to win the Defensive Player of the Year award.

"What happened a few days later? Robert Williams got hurt and the NBA voting cohorts got lazy and said, 'Well, who's the best defensive team in the NBA? It's Boston. OK, who's the most actively or visually defensive player on that team? It's Marcus Smart,' who's also the guy who's a routine anti-flop rule violator."

[VFX]

Spoiler:

And in contrast of Celtics, who's Marcus Smat, is 85th percentile ballhandler

You’re right that Marcus Smart is an 85th percentile pick and roll ball handler this year.

He’s also turning 29 years old in about two weeks and in his 9th NBA season.

Want to take a guess where he ranked as a PNR ball handler his entire rookie contract? Spoiler: he wasn’t very good at it.

2015: NBA.com doesn’t keep data this far back, but presumably it was not good as Smart had a meh rookie year
2016: 49th percentile
2017: 25th percentile
2018: 41st percentile
2019: 49th percentile

In 2020, his 6th NBA season did Smart finally crack the code and figure out how to do it at a high level.

2020: 87th percentile
2021: 70th percentile
2022: 23rd percentile
2023: 84th percentile

It’s almost like it’s silly to compare players in year 2 with players in year 9 and equally silly to assume guys in year 2 won’t actually get better.

My opinion on Marcus Smart has been low since... forever.
I think he darling of their fans because he plays hard and they just happend to ignore fact that his entire life as nba pro he plays with allstar guards next to him. Isaiah Thomas, Brown; Hayward, Irving, Walker. 5 different allstars.


It's he is their Derrick Fisher. System guy who would not be able to start on most other teams that require " normal" skills from PG.

But much like it was case with Fisher, Celtics are so damn stacked on offense at other positions ( 3 players were allstars in starting 5, two of them are current allstars, among them 1 is top 5 player ) that it simply doesn't matter.

Imo, you put Marcus Smart on some random Sacramento Kings/ Pistons team, and you don't know who he is, he would probably end up being bench player for rest of his career.
There is so much of fake hype about his defense that it's hilarious. Stat vise, he wasn't even best defender last year on his own damn team. It was Robert Williams.

Zach Lowe didn't even consider him top 3 best defenders in DPOY last year.

Tom Haberstroh about Smart's DPOY award

"It is egregious that Marcus Smart in 2022 is considered the best defensive player of the year," Haberstroh said. "I don't understand what exactly happened here beyond the fact that Robert Williams got hurt. Because on March 22, Marcus Smart was +4000, eighth-place odds to win the Defensive Player of the Year award.

"What happened a few days later? Robert Williams got hurt and the NBA voting cohorts got lazy and said, 'Well, who's the best defensive team in the NBA? It's Boston. OK, who's the most actively or visually defensive player on that team? It's Marcus Smart,' who's also the guy who's a routine anti-flop rule violator."

Forget the awards, ultimately they mean nothing.

At the end of the day you want guys like Smart on your team. You want defensive disrupters to make plays on the other side of the floor if you don’t happen to have Curry and Klay generational type shooters for a decade plus. Players like Smart, Walt Frazier, and Gary Payton have value in that regard.

We should expect Paolo and Franz to round out their games as well as Suggs. Suggs is in year 2. He’s not in year 8 or 9. He’s shown flashes of being “that guy” on defense and his offense is coming along.

[Bergmaniac]

Guard defense is still really crucial in the playoffs.

Anyway, Suggs is finally putting up a streak where his catch and shoot 3s look good, which is very encouraging. If he can become a consistently decent catch and shoot player, he'd already be a plus impact impact player even if the rest of his offensive game doesn't develop, he is that good defensively.

[Knightro]

I want to caveat this by saying he's still below average so these aren't necessarily numbers to be celebrating. But if you can't accept that Suggs is making actual progress offensively, then I don't know what to tell you.

Suggs Year 1 to Year 2
Pick and Roll Ball Handler: 13th percentile up to 49th percentile
Isolation: 14th percentile up to 42nd percentile
Handoff: 13th percentile up to 67th percentile

Yes, the bar was on the floor after that disaster rookie season, but Suggs is getting better.

[Knightro]

Suggs has also moved into the No. 1 spot on the entire Magic team in 538's RAPTOR formula, ahead of Franz who basically held the top spot for the entire season until today.

Isaac does not have enough minutes to qualify.

[eyriq]

Suggs has also moved into the No. 1 spot on the entire Magic team in 538's RAPTOR formula, ahead of Franz who basically held the top spot for the entire season until today.

Isaac does not have enough minutes to qualify.

Whoa, that is crazy. Franz had a huge lead. Good for Suggs.

[JoshuaPotter]

For the month of feb he is averaging 52% from 3pt land on 3.5a a game. 25 3's so far.

It's a relatively small sample size, but he seems to have found a rythm and thus the number slowly start to tick up.

I repeat, Suggs floor is 3&D, he is very close to that finished product now. But gosh that better be his floor because I would hope somewhere in there is a 15ppg flex guard with elite defense.

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs has also moved into the No. 1 spot on the entire Magic team in 538's RAPTOR formula, ahead of Franz who basically held the top spot for the entire season until today.

Isaac does not have enough minutes to qualify.

OT: I really want a healthy Isaac.

A potential starting lineup of

C : Isaac
F : Paolo
F : Franz
SG : Suggs
PG : literally anyone edit : even Suggs if we draft a great SG.

I think that has potential to be no 1 defense team if Paolo rounds out his defense game to just be "ok".

[basketballRob]

Suggs up to 10th in Defensive Raptor now. He passed Franz and is 40th overall. Lavine is 85th.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs up to 10th in Defensive Raptor now. He passed Franz and is 40th overall. Lavine is 85th.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Where do you find this for those of us who are advanced stat challenged.

[basketballRob]

Suggs up to 10th in Defensive Raptor now. He passed Franz and is 40th overall. Lavine is 85th.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Where do you find this for those of us who are advanced stat challenged.

Under 754 minutes

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[JoshuaPotter]

Suggs up to 10th in Defensive Raptor now. He passed Franz and is 40th overall. Lavine is 85th.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Where do you find this for those of us who are advanced stat challenged.

Under 754 minutes

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Thank you

[drsd]

My opinion on Marcus Smart has been low since... forever.

And-1

Example: if I was an NBA GM, I would much, much rather have the defense of Alex Caruso over Marcus Smart on the Magic roster. And it's not close. Then add that Caruso can actually hit a jumper, it is a no-brainer to me that Smart is not a player the Celts should prioritise.

p.s. why is the Bulls wasting Caruso???? Chicago is a joke and it seems like the team tries to lose games.

[eyriq]

This RAPTOR stuff for Suggs... I'm buying as much Suggs stock as I can right now, if he stays healthy he's a defensive star, as impactful on winning as most offensive stars.

Mosley will start him post all-star break or soon after.

[VFX]

My opinion on Marcus Smart has been low since... forever.

And-1

Example: if I was an NBA GM, I would much, much rather have the defense of Alex Caruso over Marcus Smart on the Magic roster. And it's not close. Then add that Caruso can actually hit a jumper, it is a no-brainer to me that Smart is not a player the Celts should prioritise.

p.s. why is the Bulls wasting Caruso???? Chicago is a joke and it seems like the team tries to lose games.

They are tanking.

Caruso would be playing 100% of the time if the pick wasn't protected. I'd be willing to bet their record increases exponentially after this season. Lakers fans still bemoan that they didn't resign him for his shooting and defense.

There is no way they are as bad as their roster on paper suggests. Failing to make trade deadline moves further shows this.

[basketballRob]

My opinion on Marcus Smart has been low since... forever.

And-1

Example: if I was an NBA GM, I would much, much rather have the defense of Alex Caruso over Marcus Smart on the Magic roster. And it's not close. Then add that Caruso can actually hit a jumper, it is a no-brainer to me that Smart is not a player the Celts should prioritise.

p.s. why is the Bulls wasting Caruso???? Chicago is a joke and it seems like the team tries to lose games.

They are tanking.

Caruso would be playing 100% of the time if the pick wasn't protected. I'd be willing to bet their record increases exponentially after this season.

There is no way they are as bad as their roster on paper suggests. Failing to make trade deadline moves further shows this.

The owner probably doesn't want to allow the GM to make any more trades. I do the Caruso is hurt. The whole roster is full of empty stat players.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

My opinion on Marcus Smart has been low since... forever.

And-1

Example: if I was an NBA GM, I would much, much rather have the defense of Alex Caruso over Marcus Smart on the Magic roster. And it's not close. Then add that Caruso can actually hit a jumper, it is a no-brainer to me that Smart is not a player the Celts should prioritise.

p.s. why is the Bulls wasting Caruso???? Chicago is a joke and it seems like the team tries to lose games.

They are tanking.

Caruso would be playing 100% of the time if the pick wasn't protected. I'd be willing to bet their record increases exponentially after this season. Lakers fans still bemoan that they didn't resign him for his shooting and defense.

There is no way they are as bad as their roster on paper suggests. Failing to make trade deadline moves further shows this.

Their season was over mid December when it was clear Lonzo can't return. I'm just suprised they didn't make more sellout moves.
You simply can t win more than 35-40 games in nba without starting level PG ( case and point: Knicks 2021-22 , Lakers this year, Pacers last year, Blazers without LIllard last year, Warriors several years ago without healthy Curry...).

Playmaker position is impossible to "fake" and mask. You either have person who can run offense or you don't. It's not really suprising that most sucessful nba team of last decade are Warriors who kept adding ballhandlers and playmakers to their team over centers/bigs. And ofc, after losing in finals what Celtics did? Just added one of most underrated playmakers nba has to offer (Brogdon).
Suns transition into relevant nba team went by addition of Paul. Clippres downfall of contendership is- playmaking spot.

[VFX]

And-1

Example: if I was an NBA GM, I would much, much rather have the defense of Alex Caruso over Marcus Smart on the Magic roster. And it's not close. Then add that Caruso can actually hit a jumper, it is a no-brainer to me that Smart is not a player the Celts should prioritise.

p.s. why is the Bulls wasting Caruso???? Chicago is a joke and it seems like the team tries to lose games.

They are tanking.

Caruso would be playing 100% of the time if the pick wasn't protected. I'd be willing to bet their record increases exponentially after this season. Lakers fans still bemoan that they didn't resign him for his shooting and defense.

There is no way they are as bad as their roster on paper suggests. Failing to make trade deadline moves further shows this.

Their season was over mid December when it was clear Lonzo can't return. I'm just suprised they didn't make more sellout moves.
You simply can t win more than 35-40 games in nba without starting level PG ( case and point: Knicks 2021-22 , Lakers this year, Pacers last year, Blazers without LIllard last year, Warriors several years ago without healthy Curry...).

Playmaker position is impossible to "fake" and mask. You either have person who can run offense or you don't. It's not really suprising that most sucessful nba team of last decade are Warriors who kept adding ballhandlers and playmakers to their team over centers/bigs. And ofc, after losing in finals what Celtics did? Just added one of most underrated playmakers nba has to offer (Brogdon).
Suns transition into relevant nba team went by addition of Paul. Clippres downfall of contendership is- playmaking spot.

I'd bet any amount of money that if the pick wasn't protected 1-4, and it was completely unprotected, the Bulls would have found a stopgap for Ball, OR Caruso would have been magically been playing all of those minutes.

[Skin]

Suggs up to 10th in Defensive Raptor now. He passed Franz and is 40th overall. Lavine is 85th.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Where do you find this for those of us who are advanced stat challenged.

Don't look too closely. If you base all your opnions on it like it's the basis of all your debates like others here, then you'd be questioning Paolo as good player or any part of our future with his -2.8 RAPTOR

[pepe1991]

They are tanking.

Caruso would be playing 100% of the time if the pick wasn't protected. I'd be willing to bet their record increases exponentially after this season. Lakers fans still bemoan that they didn't resign him for his shooting and defense.

There is no way they are as bad as their roster on paper suggests. Failing to make trade deadline moves further shows this.

Their season was over mid December when it was clear Lonzo can't return. I'm just suprised they didn't make more sellout moves.
You simply can t win more than 35-40 games in nba without starting level PG ( case and point: Knicks 2021-22 , Lakers this year, Pacers last year, Blazers without LIllard last year, Warriors several years ago without healthy Curry...).

Playmaker position is impossible to "fake" and mask. You either have person who can run offense or you don't. It's not really suprising that most sucessful nba team of last decade are Warriors who kept adding ballhandlers and playmakers to their team over centers/bigs. And ofc, after losing in finals what Celtics did? Just added one of most underrated playmakers nba has to offer (Brogdon).
Suns transition into relevant nba team went by addition of Paul. Clippres downfall of contendership is- playmaking spot.

I'd bet any amount of money that if the pick wasn't protected 1-4, and it was completely unprotected, the Bulls would have found a stopgap for Ball, OR Caruso would have been magically been playing all of those minutes.

They could have asked for disabled player exception and create $5M of cap space and simply add some mediocrity like Denzel Valentine or DJ Augustin or Trey Burke ,who are all unsigned FAs.

I think their front office knows that they are pretty close to 5th worst record and possibility of holding pick becomes near coin flip (42%) and in same time , if they somehow luck into top pick, drafting Victor would help them pick direction ( probably getting lot younger, not resign Vuc etc).

It's important to note that Bulls and Cavs are only nba teams that didn't do any trade whole year long.

They can clear up cap space in record time.

Vuc- free agent
Derozan- one year left
Lavine - still probably tradable
Lonzo -when healthy ,very valuable, on okey contract

Nobody else makes more than $10M a year to matter