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Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1401 » by drsd » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:33 pm

Def Swami wrote:Again, it's just surprising to me that the first lineup wrinkle attempted is a 2-center lineup as opposed to Isaac at the 5.

I feel like I've been waiting for a small ball lineup since the Ibaka trade, but the Magic continue to bend and break to make these "big" lineups to accommodate Vucevic.


Trying to to out Warrior the Warriors cannot be a path to success.

If the whole elegy moves in a direction, that direction will lead to holes that Orlando can exploit. The more team behaving the same way, the more such a strategy will be universal.

..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1402 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:37 pm

drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter




Augustin/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba/Vučević

On offense, this is an unguardable five.


..

Are you trolling or are you that clueless? That lineup is very guardable.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1403 » by PennytoShaq » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:37 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:The league plays small and we keep trying to play big. Just another example of Orlando being too stupid to get out of the 90s. Also 2 of our 3 most important players both are primarily 4s and having the 3rd practicing at the 4 is a redundant waste of time. We drafted Bamba to replace Vuc not be his backcourt partner.


What 4 in the East do you think Bamba can't guard?
I think he could guard AG decently, and he's about as athletic as 4s get.
He's long enough to play off anyone and recover out to the 3 point line.
Plus, He can shoot over anyone who has to guard him.

It's not a question of Bamba being able to guard 4s when we have 2 natural 4's, Gordon and Isaac, to defend against 4s. There is no point in wasting his minutes where he is not needed. Bamba's minutes need to be at center because that is where he will be playing full time when Vucevic is gone. Bamba's minutes need to be 100% committed to anchoring the paint for our defense. Why bother keeping him defending on the perimeter at the same time we have a human turnstile lumbering around in the paint?


Because bamba was drafted to be more than just a rim protector. The magic see him as a guy who can switch out and defend wings as well. Most likely their long term hope is to have all 3 from BIG out there switching because all 3 can play defense in the paint.

This is simply clifford getting bamba used to defending wings for a few minutes a game while vuc is still here. Its not a long term plan or anything. If you think bamba is 100% in the paint “anchoring” you are thinking of outdated basketball. Thats not how they will use him once they have BIG ready to deploy.

Big picture is Bamba can switch out at times to defend wings AND recover back into the paint for weakside help. Thats the type of defense from a 5 that you need and what clifford discussed this summer in terms of a modern 5 versus an old school guy.

It will be a huge pain in the a$$ for an offense to get matchups off a pick and roll when isaac and ag can also defend the weakside paint on a switch off a 1-5 pick and roll. This means the big rolling to the rim will not have an easy post up against a pg - he will have to deal with isaac or ag sliding down from the weakside and have to make the right decision every time.

Camping out Bamba in the paint simplifies the defense and makes us easier to attack by a modern offense who uses pick and rolls to switch defenders. It also is a misuse of bambas talent.

Playing vuc and bamba together is simply development for bamba to get used to perimeter defense. It not our long term plan and we simply have to accept that vuc is here and will be used until the magic can move him in a trade.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1404 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:39 pm

drsd wrote:
Def Swami wrote:Again, it's just surprising to me that the first lineup wrinkle attempted is a 2-center lineup as opposed to Isaac at the 5.

I feel like I've been waiting for a small ball lineup since the Ibaka trade, but the Magic continue to bend and break to make these "big" lineups to accommodate Vucevic.


Trying to to out Warrior the Warriors cannot be a path to success.

If the whole elegy moves in a direction, that direction will lead to holes that Orlando can exploit. The more team behaving the same way, the more such a strategy will be universal.

..

Were you in a coma in 2016? Did you not see how miserably that strategy failed?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1405 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:42 pm

Def Swami wrote:Again, it's just surprising to me that the first lineup wrinkle attempted is a 2-center lineup as opposed to Isaac at the 5.

I feel like I've been waiting for a small ball lineup since the Ibaka trade, but the Magic continue to bend and break to make these "big" lineups to accommodate Vucevic.

It's like Hennigan never left. If all of these PF's we put next to Vuc over the years weren't the solution, Vuc is the problem.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1406 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:43 pm

The intense overreactions over one play in one preseason game and comments about practice has me legit concerned for some being able to handle the regular season.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1407 » by drsd » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:44 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:Were you in a coma in 2016? Did you not see how miserably that strategy failed?


Payton vs. Augustin
Fournier vs. Gordon
Gordon vs. Isaac
Ibaka vs. Bamba
Vučević vs. Vučević

These are not comparable rosters.


..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1408 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:48 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
What 4 in the East do you think Bamba can't guard?
I think he could guard AG decently, and he's about as athletic as 4s get.
He's long enough to play off anyone and recover out to the 3 point line.
Plus, He can shoot over anyone who has to guard him.

It's not a question of Bamba being able to guard 4s when we have 2 natural 4's, Gordon and Isaac, to defend against 4s. There is no point in wasting his minutes where he is not needed. Bamba's minutes need to be at center because that is where he will be playing full time when Vucevic is gone. Bamba's minutes need to be 100% committed to anchoring the paint for our defense. Why bother keeping him defending on the perimeter at the same time we have a human turnstile lumbering around in the paint?


Because bamba was drafted to be more than just a rim protector. The magic see him as a guy who can switch out and defend wings as well. Most likely their long term hope is to have all 3 from BIG out there switching because all 3 can play defense in the paint.

This is simply clifford getting bamba used to defending wings for a few minutes a game while vuc is still here. Its not a long term plan or anything. If you think bamba is 100% in the paint “anchoring” you are thinking of outdated basketball. Thats not how they will use him once they have BIG ready to deploy.

Big picture is Bamba can switch out at times to defend wings AND recover back into the paint for weakside help. Thats the type of defense from a 5 that you need and what clifford discussed this summer in terms of a modern 5 versus an old school guy.

It will be a huge pain in the a$$ for an offense to get matchups off a pick and roll when isaac and ag can also defend the weakside paint on a switch off a 1-5 pick and roll. This means the big rolling to the rim will not have an easy post up against a pg - he will have to deal with isaac or ag sliding down from the weakside and have to make the right decision every time.

Camping out Bamba in the paint simplifies the defense and makes us easier to attack by a modern offense who uses pick and rolls to switch defenders. It also is a misuse of bambas talent.

Playing vuc and bamba together is simply development for bamba to get used to perimeter defense. It not our long term plan and we simply have to accept that vuc is here and will be used until the magic can move him in a trade.
Well said.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1409 » by PrimeThyme » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:49 pm

SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter

Dear god.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1410 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:51 pm

drsd wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Were you in a coma in 2016? Did you not see how miserably that strategy failed?


Payton vs. Augustin
Fournier vs. Gordon
Gordon vs. Isaac
Ibaka vs. Bamba
Vučević vs. Vučević

These are not comparable rosters.


..

Yep those aren't comparable because one was terrible and the other one is extremely terrible.

You think Gordon should be playing at SG for god's sake! Gordon didn't work out at SF, what on earth makes you think Gordon would work out at an even worse position for him?!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1411 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:53 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:The intense overreactions over one play in one preseason game and comments about practice has me legit concerned for some being able to handle the regular season.


I was actually pretty encouraged with what I saw in the first preseason game. Offensively at least. Defensively was a bit of a mess, but I think that's to be expected early on.

One thing I like is that it seems like Clifford is very aware that he doesn’t have one singular playmaker and has the guys keeping the ball moving side-to-side accordingly. He could rely on Kemba a lot in Charlotte and he doesn't have that primary guy here.

I didn’t think there were a lot of possessions that totally devolved into ugly isolation ball, at least while the regulars were out there.

Plus the pace was quick which can go a long way towards masking some deficiencies in the half court.

All total the Magic had a 110.6 ORTG for the game and just 12 turnovers.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1412 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Oct 4, 2018 2:57 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter




Augustin/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba/Vučević

On offense, this is an unguardable five.


..

Are you trolling or are you that clueless? That lineup is very guardable.


Seriously.

Clearly we need:

Evan / Gordon / Isaac / Bamba / Vuc
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1413 » by OrlandoNed » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:03 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:
drsd wrote:


Augustin/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba/Vučević

On offense, this is an unguardable five.


..

Are you trolling or are you that clueless? That lineup is very guardable.


Seriously.

Clearly we need:

Evan / Gordon / Isaac / Bamba / Vuc

Please. We are clearly lacking Mozgov's passing and ballhandling abilities at the PG position.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1414 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:05 pm

Wait, somebody really thinks that Gordon can play SG?

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1415 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:07 pm

Preseason and training camp is the perfect time to experiment with goofy stuff. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bamba/Vucevic shared the floor against the Brazilian team coming up here tomorrow.

But ultimately, my guess is that Bamba/Vuecevic end up logging very few minutes together once the actual season starts.

As Zach Lowe pointed out...

"Steve Clifford is a smart coach, but his Charlotte teams were (effectively) boring: get back on defense, don't dare crash the offensive glass, play low-risk offense."

For better or worse, Clifford is a predictable, stable, very much inside the box NBA coach.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1416 » by Knightro » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:10 pm

Read on Twitter


Good news for fans. Two preseason games previously not scheduled to air on TV will now stream on the Fox Sports app.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1417 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:16 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Are you trolling or are you that clueless? That lineup is very guardable.


Seriously.

Clearly we need:

Evan / Gordon / Isaac / Bamba / Vuc

Please. We are clearly lacking Mozgov's passing and ballhandling abilities at the PG position.


True. Can’t argue with that.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1418 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:18 pm

Knightro wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:The intense overreactions over one play in one preseason game and comments about practice has me legit concerned for some being able to handle the regular season.


I was actually pretty encouraged with what I saw in the first preseason game. Offensively at least. Defensively was a bit of a mess, but I think that's to be expected early on.

One thing I like is that it seems like Clifford is very aware that he doesn’t have one singular playmaker and has the guys keeping the ball moving side-to-side accordingly. He could rely on Kemba a lot in Charlotte and he doesn't have that primary guy here.

I didn’t think there were a lot of possessions that totally devolved into ugly isolation ball, at least while the regulars were out there.

Plus the pace was quick which can go a long way towards masking some deficiencies in the half court.

All total the Magic had a 110.6 ORTG for the game and just 12 turnovers.
I know. I appreciated your comments and your assesment is spot on.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1419 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:20 pm

Knightro wrote:Preseason and training camp is the perfect time to experiment with goofy stuff. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bamba/Vucevic shared the floor against the Brazilian team coming up here tomorrow.

But ultimately, my guess is that Bamba/Vuecevic end up logging very few minutes together once the actual season starts.

As Zach Lowe pointed out...

"Steve Clifford is a smart coach, but his Charlotte teams were (effectively) boring: get back on defense, don't dare crash the offensive glass, play low-risk offense."

For better or worse, Clifford is a predictable, stable, very much inside the box NBA coach.


It’s pretty obvious to me what Clifford will do here and why he was the choice. We need boring basketball fundamentals coached around our extraordinary specimens.

If these extremes meet in the middle we might have something to work with. At that time we would then need a different coach but I would call Clifford’s time here a succcess in such a scenario.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1420 » by OrlChamps2030 » Thu Oct 4, 2018 3:25 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Read on Twitter




Augustin/Gordon/Isaac/Bamba/Vučević

On offense, this is an unguardable five.


..

Are you trolling or are you that clueless? That lineup is very guardable.

I laughed out loud at this lol

That line up is absurdly bad offensively.

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