Markelle Fultz

[Skybox]

No reason to doubt-shame concerns about Markelle’s development and looming decisions about his future with the team, contract, and ceiling. He simply hasn’t performed to the level of his contract or become what ORL needs him to be yet. He didn’t time-travel here from another era where 3pt shooting and drawing fouls are not fundamental skills for an NBA guard. It’s not really typical to discuss what a player is “just about to start doing” at this point in his career.

I don’t think ANYONE here is actually rooting against Markelle…but there’s reason for doubt and reason for concerns now that this team is (potentially) on the verge of sustainable relevance and he’s on the verge of a new significant financial commitment from the team. So, the real question, for me (and you) is,

“What does Markelle, specifically, need to do, and by when, to have the FO able to make a solid decision about committing to him, financially and otherwise, as the PG for the next 4 years?”

My answer…18 ppg, 7+ apg, 4+ 3pt attempts at 33+%, while maintaining his solid defense and efficient ball handling. That sounds like a lot of pts but by simply adding a couple more fta’s and subbing in a couple 3’s for 2’s he’s there. It’s there for the taking and might not even feel that different until the stat sheet reflects the value, both to his game and our frontcourt players’. Needs to happen quickly, imo, not a steady improvement. If he has deserved patience due to injuries, he should also be expected to snap back quickly due to improved health and full off-season.

Surprise… I think it’s about 50/50 he gets there. I really do, he looks great and isn’t really THAT far off…just fundamental tweaks that are not impossible to conceive of. However, imo, experiment over if, by December, he’s not that guy…and start moving Cole and AB up in the rotation in anticipation of a deadline trade -as a large expiring salary.

[VFX]

I believe in Markelle. The flashes at the end of the season gave me hope. And now he’s shooting EVERYTHING with his normal shot during training camp. He may be finally ready to take that next step in his career. I hope he does it… and if he can’t, we have a stud top-6 pick ready to try behind him over the next few years… and if AB doesn’t cut it, we can then think about the trade market or using cap space next summer. All that said, I’m excited as hell to see what Markelle can do this year.

I just find it extremely annoying that his 3pt shot is even addressed until the final year of his expiring contract after Orlando spends a top lottery pick at his position.

Even if you want to be excited about him insurmountably improving that very absent area of his game, he put the organization in a very serious predicament because it’s all on the line now for HIM to show it.

Oh it’s now the biggest contract you’ll ever ink? Might as well cut your hair and start addressing the elephant in the room regarding your game in year 8 as Orlando is scrambling to find the right pieces to pair with their cornerstones… even if it all works out it’s transparent and this isn’t someone I want them to hand $25m+ to as a third option offensively.

His three point shot was part of his focus last offseason too. You know.... the offseason after being out with a knee injury for a season and half. Lol.... then a table derailed that effort and came back to a team which he was trying to help win.... no time to throw out his dabbling in 3s.... because he was coming back to mesh with a team that he didn't even get a training camp in. makes sense that he would focus on doing what he thinks he is strongest at. lol.... even if that doesn't jive with what people on the realgm board wants of him and decided is a check mark of success. He returned (with cole) and the team took a drastic turn.... that you cannot deny.

if he shows that he is able to surpass all the things that the FO believed in him for though he was down on his luck.... better believe they will retain their investment. and he won't be 3rd option on a nightly basis. similarly to when paolo and others were sucking he stepped up. but now this team will be growing together and he should become an important cog in the MAGIC SUCCESS.

We are trying to ride this wave of believed success... and handing the Keys over to AB in his rookie season is not the answer. P.s. AB's contract is under magic control for the next 4 years and he will have the opportunity to grow. and at 6'7" he will be used in a myriad of ways as well. Even if Fultz is given a contract...the timing can all work out... and the torch can be passed along as seen as necessary.

So your argument is that he was working on it ALL season, but then he averaged less attempts than in 2019-2020 which so happens to be the the only other season where he played 60+ games ALSO on a contract year. Totally coincidental I’m sure. You do know we have data in 2019-2020 where he played 72 games right?

What? Is Markelle Fultz going to start playing 60-70 games and taking more 3’s only when his contract is running up? I guess we have that to look forward to in 26-27 season. Maybe by then he will take more than 2 a game at above league average in % as a veteran while people continue to claim he has unlimited potential. We can only hope.

Let’s just say that he better hope he either exponentially increases his 3 point ability and starts getting to the line for once in his career. Either that, or Suggs, Jett, Franz etc show that they can make up for all his shortcomings so it isn’t as glaringly obvious while we pay him as a third option. Orlando isn’t moving him, so time will tell.

Fwiw I’ve been more impressed with Cole Anthony’s development in the shorter timeframe. A player that will 100% be moved at some point due to the “wait and see” roster construction this FO does. It’s inevitable if they hand Fultz a large long term deal. They aren’t spending exorbitant amounts of cap space on Cole, Suggs, Fultz, and now AB at the same time before maxing Paolo and Franz.

[thelead]

Hate all you want, let’s stop pretending this is a normal situation with a player that didn’t have a rare condition in his shoulder.

Hate all you want, but don’t pretend he hasn’t improved his form from deep over the last 6 months.

Hate all you want, Markelle is going to get the opportunity to show if he has truly improved.

Hate all you want, we don’t have much to lose by giving Markelle the opportunity. AB is likely the only one ‘hurt’ by it… but if AB is ready to play big minutes now, he’ll prove it on the court… and then we’ll have decisions to make.

Now, you want to be skeptical? Sure. It’s his contract year… but the reality is, NBA contracts are shorter now and it’s almost always contract years nowadays.

Lastly, I don’t care who our starting PG is 3 years from now… as long as that player is great. Whether that’s Markelle, AB, Cole, or Suggs. I honestly don’t care which one delivers. I’m just rooting for Fultz to bounce back from the rough start of his career and resemble the player he looked like in college.

[pepe1991]

His condition, if ever existed, still exists. Did he had surgery? Nop. Streaching does't cure alleged nerve demage

[AaronB]

His condition, if ever existed, still exists. Did he had surgery? Nop. Streaching does't cure alleged nerve demage

Your basketball analysis is as good as your grammar, spelling and medical analysis.

18 total words: 2 misspelt words, 2 grammar issues and 2 medical misdiagnoses.

Impressive!

[pepe1991]

His condition, if ever existed, still exists. Did he had surgery? Nop. Streaching does't cure alleged nerve demage

Your basketball analysis is as good as your grammar, spelling and medical analysis.

Somebody can't handle the truth


Guy kept his doctor's hooping until somebody gave him convenient excuse. If you ever bother actually invest any of your time reading about TOS, you would figure that doctors can't really diagnoze you with TOS, it's rather bunch of " well not this" diagnoses combined into one conclusion

me. The clinical diagnosis of thoracic outlet syndrome is intended to demonstrate compression or tension on the brachial plexus when moving the neck or arms.

Unfortunately, no single clinical test for neurogenic TOS is specific or accurate in confirming the diagnosis. The clinical diagnosis of thoracic outlet syndrome utilizes a combination of several tests, along with a high index of suspicion on the doctor’s part, which can increase the likelihood of an accurate diagnosis of neurogenic TOS. In particular, the Roos test and the upper limb neural tension test are more likely to increase confidence in the diagnosis.

But hey, you call me on my grammer, but can i ask you personal question since you have no problems going at me personally, how many laguages can you speek or at leats communicate with ?

[fendilim]

Hate all you want, let’s stop pretending this is a normal situation with a player that didn’t have a rare condition in his shoulder.

Hate all you want, but don’t pretend he hasn’t improved his form from deep over the last 6 months.

Hate all you want, Markelle is going to get the opportunity to show if he has truly improved.

Hate all you want, we don’t have much to lose by giving Markelle the opportunity. AB is likely the only one ‘hurt’ by it… but if AB is ready to play big minutes now, he’ll prove it on the court… and then we’ll have decisions to make.

Now, you want to be skeptical? Sure. It’s his contract year… but the reality is, NBA contracts are shorter now and it’s almost always contract years nowadays.

Lastly, I don’t care who our starting PG is 3 years from now… as long as that player is great. Whether that’s Markelle, AB, Cole, or Suggs. I honestly don’t care which one delivers. I’m just rooting for Fultz to bounce back from the rough start of his career and resemble the player he looked like in college.

no doubt he has improved over the past 6 months. But that doesn’t mean he will be a good 3 point shooter.

What’s so disappointing about Fultz is his lack of perimeter game. Tbh, he’d have the highest potential on this team if only he had a reliable perimeter game.

[VFX]

Hate all you want, let’s stop pretending this is a normal situation with a player that didn’t have a rare condition in his shoulder.

Hate all you want, but don’t pretend he hasn’t improved his form from deep over the last 6 months.

Hate all you want, Markelle is going to get the opportunity to show if he has truly improved.

Hate all you want, we don’t have much to lose by giving Markelle the opportunity. AB is likely the only one ‘hurt’ by it… but if AB is ready to play big minutes now, he’ll prove it on the court… and then we’ll have decisions to make.

Now, you want to be skeptical? Sure. It’s his contract year… but the reality is, NBA contracts are shorter now and it’s almost always contract years nowadays.

Lastly, I don’t care who our starting PG is 3 years from now… as long as that player is great. Whether that’s Markelle, AB, Cole, or Suggs. I honestly don’t care which one delivers. I’m just rooting for Fultz to bounce back from the rough start of his career and resemble the player he looked like in college.

no doubt he has improved over the past 6 months. But that doesn’t mean he will be a good 3 point shooter.

What’s so disappointing about Fultz is his lack of perimeter game. Tbh, he’d have the highest potential on this team if only he had a reliable perimeter game.

It’s overall scoring variability. Not getting to the line and no 3 threat. We have seen it at the end of games where we end up trading 2+1 or 3’s for 2’s. It’s simple math.

[eyriq]

Using a plus minus lens Fultz carried water for the rook last season, and adjusting for that places him as our second best player behind Franz. His full recovery from TOS and other ailments should bring a change in style of play; more threes and increased explosiveness around the rim. It's shaping up to be a season that places Fultz in strong contention to be a top 15 PG. His defensive potential and impact is already solid, if his offense gets anywhere close to prospect Fultz potential we are cooking.

[Knightro]

Using a plus minus lens Fultz carried water for the rook last season, and adjusting for that places him as our second best player behind Franz.

This isn’t really how that works now. C’mon.

[eyriq]

Using a plus minus lens Fultz carried water for the rook last season, and adjusting for that places him as our second best player behind Franz.

This isn’t really how that works now. C’mon.

Here's how it works
1. How much court time do they share?
2. Control for players that share a lot of time together
3. Get an adjusted plus minus estimate

What this does is look at times they don't share the court together and adjust their shared time accordingly. Paolo had a worse plus minus without Fultz than Fultz had without Paolo, so there is an indication that Paolo was dragging down Fultz, or said differently, that Fultz was carrying water for the rook.

Outcome is Fultz looks much better.

[Knightro]

Using a plus minus lens Fultz carried water for the rook last season, and adjusting for that places him as our second best player behind Franz.

This isn’t really how that works now. C’mon.

Here's how it works
1. How much court time do they share?
2. Control for players that share a lot of time together
3. Get an adjusted plus minus estimate

What this does is look at times they don't share the court together and adjust their shared time accordingly. Paolo had a worse plus minus without Fultz than Fultz had without Paolo, so there is an indication that Paolo was dragging down Fultz, or said differently, that Fultz was carrying water for the rook.

Outcome is Fultz looks much better.

I’m not disagreeing that Banchero wasn’t an anchor on everyone he played with.

But the amount of minutes you’re talking about of Fultz on with Banchero off is far too small to make a determination that Fultz was the 2nd most impactful player that happened to be dragged down by the least impactful player.

[Audi]

His condition, if ever existed, still exists. Did he had surgery? Nop. Streaching does't cure alleged nerve demage

Pepe, you literally once thought Markelle was under the mind control of his mother who was forcing him to fake an injury long enough to collect on his rookie contract and then bounce from the league a millionaire without needing to play. You’ve been wrong from the start, don’t act like you’ve done a lick of a research on TOS…you haven’t cared to from the very start.

Stick to analyzing and crapping on rookies for not performing like vets - it’s what you do best.

[eyriq]

This isn’t really how that works now. C’mon.

Here's how it works
1. How much court time do they share?
2. Control for players that share a lot of time together
3. Get an adjusted plus minus estimate

What this does is look at times they don't share the court together and adjust their shared time accordingly. Paolo had a worse plus minus without Fultz than Fultz had without Paolo, so there is an indication that Paolo was dragging down Fultz, or said differently, that Fultz was carrying water for the rook.

Outcome is Fultz looks much better.

I’m not disagreeing that Banchero wasn’t an anchor on everyone he played with.

But the amount of minutes you’re talking about of Fultz on with Banchero off is far too small to make a determination that Fultz was the 2nd most impactful player that happened to be dragged down by the least impactful player.

For sure. Not enough evidence. I'm just trying to paint as positive a picture as is probable.

Personally, I think Paolo was our best and most impactful player. High usage with a high free throw rate is extremely valuable. All the other angles used to diminish his impact are interesting and highlight opportunities for Paolo to improve.

As for Fultz, I don't buy the comeback story, I think he has baggage and is damaged goods. If I'm wrong though, there's some evidence to look back on and be like "damn, the proof was there". We'll see.

[Def Swami]

NGL, I'm a half glass empty guy when it comes to most things Orlando Magic. Have been super pessimistic about Fultz's long term ability to be the point guard. But, every video of his shooting form I've seen the last month has been the best looking form I've seen since Washington. We'll have to see it in the game, but he definitely worked on it and it's definitely different (in a good way).

Read on Twitter

[RichCollab]

I’m buying more Fultz stock! He is my PG and hope we can afford him after this season.

[Bergmaniac]

If he becomes as good as his biggest fans here predict he'd probably walk next summer since he'd be unrestricted free agent. Still think we should have extended or traded him this summer.

[RichCollab]

I can’t really comment on Fultz before he joined the Magic but he has been a leader and given his all since getting here.

I’m also ok moving on from him if he doesn’t have a solid season.

[AaronB]

His condition, if ever existed, still exists. Did he had surgery? Nop. Streaching does't cure alleged nerve demage

Your basketball analysis is as good as your grammar, spelling and medical analysis.

But hey, you call me on my grammer, but can i ask you personal question since you have no problems going at me personally, how many laguages can you speek or at leats communicate with ?

4

Well, 1 plus 3 others to varying levels of ineptness, but that does not mean that I would embarrass myself writing in a forum in those languages.

It also does not explain your complete and total ignorance of TOS or your complete lack of understanding of statistical significance as it applies to inferential statistics.

My advice: before you continue your inept basketball analysis more, go buy and read the book "The Signal and the Noise: Why Many Predictions Fail and Some Don't" by Nate Silver.

[SOUL]

Debate all day about stats and opinions, let's not take personal shots at grammar or spelling mistakes or anything - that constitutes as a personal attack and this is a warning to everybody on the forum moving forward. Tons of posters are from overseas and RealGM nor does sportsfandom require any sort of mastering of English.