Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LXI Countdown To Preseason)

Catledge · Post #1421 » by **Catledge** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:43 pm

With only two preseason games left, we might finally get to see some lineups that JV plans to use during the regular season.

What would be your starting lineup and bench rotation (your choice, not what you think JV will do)? Here's mine:

Starters: Dipo, AA, Harris, Max, Vooch

Bench: Meer, Moore, Hark, Nicholson, KOQ

OrlandoNed · Post #1422 » by **OrlandoNed** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:44 pm

Utah doesn't have a choice but to give Favors, Hayward, and Kanter these contracts. The only way Utah can become a contender is by building through the draft, grooming the draft picks, then resigning them to contracts slightly above market value. Utah is not an attractive enough location for free agents, so its the draft or bust.

OrlandoNed · Post #1423 » by **OrlandoNed** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:51 pm

Catledge wrote:With only two preseason games left, we might finally get to see some lineups that JV plans to use during the regular season.

What would be your starting lineup and bench rotation (your choice, not what you think JV will do)? Here's mine:

Starters: Dipo, AA, Harris, Max, Vooch

Bench: Meer, Moore, Hark, Nicholson, KOQ

I would go with this.

Starters: Nelson, Afflalo, Harkless, Nicholson, Vucevic
Bench: Oladipo, Moore, Harris, Maxiell, O'Quinn

KingRobb02 · Post #1424 » by **KingRobb02** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:01 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:Utah doesn't have a choice but to give Favors, Hayward, and Kanter these contracts. The only way Utah can become a contender is by building through the draft, grooming the draft picks, then resigning them to contracts slightly above market value. Utah is not an attractive enough location for free agents, so its the draft or bust.

Having no alternatives doesn't mean that they made a good choice. I actually like all those player, I just don't like the idea of overpaying. Anytime there is a salary cap, you are making a mistake when you overpay.

nicnac215 · Post #1425 » by **nicnac215** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:05 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Utah doesn't have a choice but to give Favors, Hayward, and Kanter these contracts. The only way Utah can become a contender is by building through the draft, grooming the draft picks, then resigning them to contracts slightly above market value. Utah is not an attractive enough location for free agents, so its the draft or bust.

Having no alternatives doesn't mean that they made a good choice. I actually like all those player, I just don't like the idea of overpaying. Anytime there is a salary cap, you are making a mistake when you overpay.

Exactly. Offer reasonable contracts with incentives instead of handing out more guaranteed $$.

BadMofoPimp · Post #1426 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:06 pm

Unfortunately for Utah, none of those players are really, to me at least, going to be All-Stars someday. Solid players that can start on some teams, but overpriced for sure. Utah just got stuck. Me, I would have traded Favors for a 1st rounder in this year draft.

Optimus_Steel · Post #1427 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:13 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:Unfortunately for Utah, none of those players are really, to me at least, going to be All-Stars someday. Solid players that can start on some teams, but overpriced for sure. Utah just got stuck. Me, I would have traded Favors for a 1st rounder in this year draft.

Lets see how he does with the big uptick in minutes, now that Jefferson and Millsap are gone. Same for Kanter.

Gomagic44 · Post #1428 » by **Gomagic44** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:20 pm

My starting 5 would be dipo, hark, Harris maxiell, Vuc

BadMofoPimp · Post #1429 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:27 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Unfortunately for Utah, none of those players are really, to me at least, going to be All-Stars someday. Solid players that can start on some teams, but overpriced for sure. Utah just got stuck. Me, I would have traded Favors for a 1st rounder in this year draft.

Lets see how he does with the big uptick in minutes, now that Jefferson and Millsap are gone. Same for Kanter.

Favors had many games over the years where he got to play starters minutes. He never really seemed to turn that edge to where he was as good as Milsap even. But, players can always work extra hard to improve in their later years like JJ and Ryno, so you never know. But, I don't see All-Star in either of them. Starter on some NBA teams is possible though. I would still take my chances on Vucevic and Harris over any player on their team much less Oladipo.

OrlandO · Post #1430 » by **OrlandO** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:53 pm

Magic likely ditching morning shootarounds this season http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... is-season/

Orlwillbeback · Post #1431 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:59 pm

Varnado waived, but who cares we don't need shotblockers.

OrlandoNed · Post #1432 » by **OrlandoNed** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:13 pm

nicnac215 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
OrlandoNed wrote:Utah doesn't have a choice but to give Favors, Hayward, and Kanter these contracts. The only way Utah can become a contender is by building through the draft, grooming the draft picks, then resigning them to contracts slightly above market value. Utah is not an attractive enough location for free agents, so its the draft or bust.

Having no alternatives doesn't mean that they made a good choice. I actually like all those player, I just don't like the idea of overpaying. Anytime there is a salary cap, you are making a mistake when you overpay.

Exactly. Offer reasonable contracts with incentives instead of handing out more guaranteed $$.

Yeah that's great and all in principle, but what agent in their right mind would allow their client to take a crappy offer that is "reasonable" in the eyes of management instead of just waiting out the year and getting much better offers in free agency? If you are Utah, you have to lock up your young, above-average talent with above market value contracts or a team with a nicer location and deeper pockets are gonna snatch them up. Utah rarely signs the big ticket free agents because their location sucks. If Utah can't keep their young talent because they are being too cheap, they will rarely have a chance to compete and they will become a glorified farm team for the rest of the league.

Post #1433 » by **Howard Mass** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:30 pm

Magicalltheway wrote:I'd love it if someone could outline our draft possibilites for the next 5 years. thank you.

The Magic have all of their own first and second round picks except their 2014 second round pick.

2014:

Less favorable of Denver and New York's first round picks

2015:

Lakers 2015 2nd round pick top-40 protected.

The Magic will also receive these picks no earlier than 2017

2016 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 1st round pick to Orlando protected for selections 1-14 in 2016 (only if Philadelphia conveyed a 1st round pick to Miami in 2014), 1-11 in 2017 or 1-8 in 2018; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Orlando by 2018, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 2nd round pick to Orlando [Miami-Philadelphia, 6/28/2012 and then Denver-L.A. Lakers-Orlando-Philadelphia, 8/10/2012]
2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers

If at least two years after the L.A. Lakers conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix, then the L.A. Lakers' 1st round pick to Orlando protected for selections 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019; if the L.A. Lakers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix by 2017, then the L.A. Lakers will instead convey their 2017 2nd round pick and 2018 2nd round pick to Orlando [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012 and then L.A. Lakers-Orlando, 8/10/2012]

Since Philadelphia is unlikely to pay Miami a first by 2015, The first year The Magic can get the Philadelphia pick is 2017 and if they do not get it by 2018, it's 2 second rounders in 2018 and 2019. I think The Magic will end up getting a nice mid first rounder.

The Lakers pick will not be paid until 2017 at the earliest. If also depends on if The Lakers first pay off the first from the Steve Nash deal (1-5 protected) in 2015, if not, 2015 will not be the first possible date.

So, we want The Lakers to be bad and maybe be bad and get jumped a few spots in the 2015 Draft Lottery so they get #6.

What a steal that deal is for The Suns.

If anyone has questions, please let me know.

Post #1434 » by **Howard Mass** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:31 pm

The Gordon Hayward deal definitely drives up the price to keep Harkless and Harris. I doubt The Magic will pay both.

InFlames · Post #1435 » by **InFlames** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:34 pm

BBALLBREAKDOWN ‏@bballSource 8m
Min. 100 Spot Ups, Among CENTERS, Nikola Vucevic led the NBA in efficiency and FG%. Marc Gasol was 2nd in PPP. #DeepStats
Expand

BadMofoPimp · Post #1436 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:44 pm

Howard Mass wrote:The Gordon Hayward deal definitely drives up the price to keep Harkless and Harris. I doubt The Magic will pay both.

It is not like they are guaranteed All-Stars. I think Harkless is just a better version of Ariza with better defense and Harris a borderline All-Star. It is not like that makes them anywhere near max players. I bet Harkless gets no better deal than Afflalo has now at best and Harris maybe up to $9-10 mil per.

nicnac215 · Post #1437 » by **nicnac215** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:49 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:
nicnac215 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:Having no alternatives doesn't mean that they made a good choice. I actually like all those player, I just don't like the idea of overpaying. Anytime there is a salary cap, you are making a mistake when you overpay.

Exactly. Offer reasonable contracts with incentives instead of handing out more guaranteed $$.

Yeah that's great and all in principle, but what agent in their right mind would allow their client to take a crappy offer that is "reasonable" in the eyes of management instead of just waiting out the year and getting much better offers in free agency? If you are Utah, you have to lock up your young, above-average talent with above market value contracts or a team with a nicer location and deeper pockets are gonna snatch them up. Utah rarely signs the big ticket free agents because their location sucks. If Utah can't keep their young talent because they are being too cheap, they will rarely have a chance to compete and they will become a glorified farm team for the rest of the league.

Yes, but when the jazz pay kanter, favors, and hayward a similar amount that OKC pays Durant and Westbrook or Houston pays Dwight and harden, the jazz will be nothing more than a treadmill team who has no cap space. Not very promising. Better to trade one or two for valuable players with fair contracts than overpay. Just my opinion. I would rather let Nik leave the magic for nothing than give him a max contract.

Optimus_Steel · Post #1438 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:02 pm

InFlames wrote:
BBALLBREAKDOWN ‏@bballSource 8m
Min. 100 Spot Ups, Among CENTERS, Nikola Vucevic led the NBA in efficiency and FG%. Marc Gasol was 2nd in PPP. #DeepStats
Expand

Interesting!

OrlandoNed · Post #1439 » by **OrlandoNed** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:13 pm

That's pretty much all that a team like Utah can do. Utah will always be either a treadmill team who has to overpay young talent and occasionally earn a low playoff seed or a farm team who sucks, gets a high draft pick, develops him for a few years, gets a reasonable contract extension offer turned down, and then loses him in free agency or trades him for picks and prospects. Rinse, lather, repeat.

It's not a great situation for them, but they can't change it. They have two ways to go, treadmill or farm. Atleast with the treadmill option, they have a very slim chance at retaining some young player who might become something very special.

Orlwillbeback · Post #1440 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:15 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:The Gordon Hayward deal definitely drives up the price to keep Harkless and Harris. I doubt The Magic will pay both.

It is not like they are guaranteed All-Stars. I think Harkless is just a better version of Ariza with better defense and Harris a borderline All-Star. It is not like that makes them anywhere near max players. I bet Harkless gets no better deal than Afflalo has now at best and Harris maybe up to $9-10 mil per.

This is what they should be paid, but based on how young they are they will get alot more. It's stupid I know.