Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VII: Magic Expected To Retain Core

[Bensational]

A team like the Pels or Kings would be the best to trade with in terms of potentially getting a lottery pick back for Gordon.

I’m not too excited about late 1sts as they can be picked up on draft night most drafts, and for not all that much. I’d want mid first round at the latest for best chance at snagging strong pieces.

[tiderulz]

I don’t like anything they’d probably offer

I’ll take a deal which includes RJ Hampton and their 2021 first rounder.

Eventually, a deal for a late first + a young prospect + fillers is the best I can ask for.

Is he a prospect though? Seems to me he’s just young.

athlete that cant shoot. would fit in perfectly here

[MagicFan101]

I’ll take a deal which includes RJ Hampton and their 2021 first rounder.

Eventually, a deal for a late first + a young prospect + fillers is the best I can ask for.

Is he a prospect though? Seems to me he’s just young.

athlete that cant shoot. would fit in perfectly here

You can joke but this isn’t just me talking. Orlando has reportedly set the price tag for Gordon at “A promising young player + a first round pick.”

So go down the list of teams interested. A few can’t include a first rounder at all.

Others need to include a high upside player on a rookie deal + a first round pick. I’m just connecting the dots for how Denver would do that.

You can do the same for all others on the list. I’m happy to take any such offer. I just don’t want Kemba Walker or any deal like it.

[tiderulz]

Is he a prospect though? Seems to me he’s just young.

athlete that cant shoot. would fit in perfectly here

You can joke but this isn’t just me talking. Orlando has reportedly set the price tag for Gordon at “A promising young player + a first round pick.”

So go down the list of teams interested. A few can’t include a first rounder at all.

Others need to include a high upside player on a rookie deal + a first round pick. I’m just connecting the dots for how Denver would do that.

You can do the same for all others on the list. I’m happy to take any such offer. I just don’t want Kemba Walker or any deal like it.

I'm not laughing at the price. just saying Hampton's scouting report going into the draft was athletic guard that cant shoot very well. in 24 games shooting 41% from the field, 28% from 3.

[Magicfanatic82]

Read on Twitter

Athletics Min reporter probably relaying this for wolves front office.

[pepe1991]

They have to understand that teams interested in Gordon probably are not lottery teams, so you are not getting lottery pick but mid to late 20s range of a pick.

As far as "promising young player" goes, what does that even mean? Is rookie promising because he didn't have time to dissapoint?
Would Okeke be viewed as "promising" on other team? Would Bamba be?

It's just so vague and out there statment that has no actual meaning.

[SOUL]

Read on Twitter

[Bensational]

If the amount of interest in Gordon is as high as reported then WeHam are doing a good thing to drive a hard bargain for now. Could squeeze something good out of a team if competition and desire is high enough.

[RookieStar]

If the amount of interest in Gordon is as high as reported then WeHam are doing a good thing to drive a hard bargain for now. Could squeeze something good out of a team if competition and desire is high enough.

Yup.. IF it's true that so many teams are looking/wanting AG, then this is a step up from before.

[MagicFan101]

They have to understand that teams interested in Gordon probably are not lottery teams, so you are not getting lottery pick but mid to late 20s range of a pick.

As far as "promising young player" goes, what does that even mean? Is rookie promising because he didn't have time to dissapoint?
Would Okeke be viewed as "promising" on other team? Would Bamba be?

It's just so vague and out there statment that has no actual meaning.

None of us know.

Do they want a recently drafted kid who was high on their draft board? Is that their definition?

Or do that want a young kid who has already proven it at the NBA level? That is much higher price tag and I’m not sure they can get that for AG if they are also demanding a first round pick.

[pepe1991]

They have to understand that teams interested in Gordon probably are not lottery teams, so you are not getting lottery pick but mid to late 20s range of a pick.

As far as "promising young player" goes, what does that even mean? Is rookie promising because he didn't have time to dissapoint?
Would Okeke be viewed as "promising" on other team? Would Bamba be?

It's just so vague and out there statment that has no actual meaning.

None of us know.

Do they want a recently drafted kid who was high on their draft board? Is that their definition?

Or do that want a young kid who has already proven it at the NBA level? That is much higher price tag and I’m not sure they can get that for AG if they are also demanding a first round pick.

Most players who are both young and proved, worth more than Gordon.
For example, Spurs won't offer you Keldon Johnson.

So we look at guys like Gary Trent Jr who could just as easly end up being as collosal dissapointment as Allen Crabbe was after he got big contract. Where i don't mind Trent, there is nothing "special" about his game.

[MaKiaVeLi7]

That Vuc/Bamba +/- again

This game, to me, highlights our coaching deficiencies. AG is having a great game but doing things that he could always do if he played the right role. Evan is shooting well and not dribbling. And like usual, Bamba is leading us in +\- but plays limited minutes.

Stop it with this +/- nonsense. I'm getting tired of whining about the plus or minus of Bamba and the usual: "why is he not playing when he has +5 or +7 and more than Birch or Vuc". This is getting silly.

It ain't your 90s teenage superstar boyband favorite member, complaining about he's singing the backing vocals on the band and the producers are holding him back. Grow up!

This is an overrated stat line that tells you NOTHING of significance about the player and means next to NOTHING altogether.

+/- is intended to measure the player's impact on the court, good try but not successful. It tells you nothing about the individual performance besides how many points the team scored or was outscored respectively, while this particular player is in play. But you know, it depends on the whole team as a unit and not on the single player's contribution.

Even the best superstars, Jordan (1984-90) or LeBron (Cavs struggles) or Kobes of the world (the guy was averaging 20+ points and his usual assist and rebs rate, LAL team still sucked and Kobe ends up with -) can have a situation where they play with subpar teammates and even though are excellent in their individual performance, 1 guy cannot always make up for the deficiencies of 4 other starters and a bunch of people coming off the bench. My point is even the best Hall of Famers playing at the top of their game can have a negative +/- rating on a regular basis while keeping their atrocious teams afloat with superhuman play, or the other way around, of course.

For example, yesterday people were starting to complain since the very moment Bambi stepped on the floor. He had +5 or +6 at one point in the early first half (where the aforementioned quotes above come from, there are plenty of those and it's getting annoying) because we were on the run and Brooklyn couldn't make a jumpshot. Was that Bamba's effect - NO. Bamba played like his usual self, invisible, almost non-existent and no real impact on the game for his limited minutes. He just hanged around his other 4 teammates who were scoring more than the Nets. Measuring his performance with +/- or anyone else's individual impact is borderline idiotic.

In the end, Vuc had +17, Birch had +12 and Bambi finished with +1 even though he was part of some rotations that made huge runs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Only Aminu and Okeke had worse +/- on our team, what does that mean? Okeke played solid and finished with -6, Aminu contributed across the board in everything and was a positive presence on the floor and he finished with -4. Do you start to get it now?

What's that statistic telling you about the individual player??? In reality, nothing at all! I think this stat is redundant and should be ignored completely. It might mean that the competition is bad or very good, it might mean that a certain team got hot or cold when that player was on the floor, but never means that one player decides the outcome by his own contribution (happens rarely on superstar teams, never on the Magic in the recent years and certainly Bamba is not that player) therefore +/- should not be taken in account in serious basketball conversations.

Note: maybe, I say just maybe, if you have a transcending superstar or galactic-caliber unstoppable player, maybe then you can put some weight in the +/- nonsense because of the huge impact of that individual would be too great to deny and you might need a tool to measure his it on and off the court. But even in this particular scenario, this statistics is very misleading not accurate and does not hold much water.

[pepe1991]

In last 6 games Mo has 8 FGM and 10 fouls commited.
You simply won't play extensive amount of time guy who in 9 min and 13 seconds fouls 3 times.
This is nothing new, he had 3 fouls in 13 min vs Heat and 3 fouls in 18 min vs San Antonio. Against Golden State, just month ago, he had 4 fouls in 9 min.

You don't want player that destroys your defense by putting you in bonus by himself over span of 1/3 of a quater.

Bamba talk is simply boring at this point. Guy has never showed anything to be worth as many posts as people commit to discuss about his "talent".
We talk about 7 foot center with second highest wingspan in nba that took 88 shots this year, has 9 dunks and 32 three point attemps. And just for good measurments- shoots 28% for 3 in contract of 71% inside 3 feet. How dumb you have to bee to not understand your strainghts are not shooting in general? He is career 36% mid range shooter (up there with pathetic bombing of Wiggins, guy who's career has been ruined by bricking mid range J's ) and shoots 61% from FT line. HE CAN'T SHOOT. Why is he shooting is one of most baffling things on this team. It's like having MCW take LIllard-type 3s. "But he was open". No ****. He is open because he can't make them.

[Skybox]

In last 6 games Mo has 8 FGM and 10 fouls commited.
You simply won't play extensive amount of time guy who in 9 min and 13 seconds fouls 3 times.
This is nothing new, he had 3 fouls in 13 min vs Heat and 3 fouls in 18 min vs San Antonio. Against Golden State, just month ago, he had 4 fouls in 9 min.

You don't want player that destroys your defense by putting you in bonus by himself over span of 1/3 of a quater.

Bamba talk is simply boring at this point. Guy has never showed anything to be worth as many posts as people commit to discuss about his "talent".
We talk about 7 foot center with second highest wingspan in nba that took 88 shots this year, has 9 dunks and 32 three point attemps. And just for good measurments- shoots 28% for 3 in contract of 71% inside 3 feet. How dumb you have to bee to not understand your strainghts are not shooting in general? He is career 36% mid range shooter (up there with pathetic bombing of Wiggins, guy who's career has been ruined by bricking mid range J's ) and shoots 61% from FT line. HE CAN'T SHOOT. Why is he shooting is one of most baffling things on this team. It's like having MCW take LIllard-type 3s. "But he was open". No ****. He is open because he can't make them.

Playing in an NBA game, against NBA players has to be a complete shock of size, speed, and intensity. Bamba may be disappointing (he is) but it's quite stupid and sad the way he's being handled...He NEVER gets a chance to play through inevitable mistakes. There's no way to tell his capabilities with such limited exposure to game speed. To say "He's been in the league for 3 years and ..." is way off if he's not getting to play. On top of that, WTF are we wasting the greatest opportunity in ORL history for "evaluation"? There's zero incentive to pick off wins, I'm not asking players to tank-they won't and shouldn't- but the FO can't really believe the Martins PR take. Give the guy 15 mins + with occasional starts or trade him NOW before the others learn what our staff apparently knows about him. He's not Tacko, this was a seriously big investment in drafting him that early. This year should be the time to get definitive conclusions about his NBA career-maybe, if they're as smart as PEPE, they already have...but then, why play him at all?

[MagicFan101]

They have to understand that teams interested in Gordon probably are not lottery teams, so you are not getting lottery pick but mid to late 20s range of a pick.

As far as "promising young player" goes, what does that even mean? Is rookie promising because he didn't have time to dissapoint?
Would Okeke be viewed as "promising" on other team? Would Bamba be?

It's just so vague and out there statment that has no actual meaning.

None of us know.

Do they want a recently drafted kid who was high on their draft board? Is that their definition?

Or do that want a young kid who has already proven it at the NBA level? That is much higher price tag and I’m not sure they can get that for AG if they are also demanding a first round pick.

Most players who are both young and proved, worth more than Gordon.
For example, Spurs won't offer you Keldon Johnson.

So we look at guys like Gary Trent Jr who could just as easly end up being as collosal dissapointment as Allen Crabbe was after he got big contract. Where i don't mind Trent, there is nothing "special" about his game.

This is why people are using the phrase “promising” and not “proven” to describe the young player Orlando wants attached to the draft pick in return for AG.

[Bergmaniac]

Everything is setting up perfectly to trade AG and Evan now for good return. Which means our management would probably manage to screw up and won't do it.

[Anti Chalmers]

I can see why teams are interested in AG and Magic not willing to let him go for chump change. Dude is still young, Uber athletic, and seems like a candidate to breakout in the right system/coach.

[thelead]

That Vuc/Bamba +/- again

This game, to me, highlights our coaching deficiencies. AG is having a great game but doing things that he could always do if he played the right role. Evan is shooting well and not dribbling. And like usual, Bamba is leading us in +\- but plays limited minutes.

Stop it with this +/- nonsense. I'm getting tired of whining about the plus or minus of Bamba and the usual: "why is he not playing when he has +5 or +7 and more than Birch or Vuc". This is getting silly.

It ain't your 90s teenage superstar boyband favorite member, complaining about he's singing the backing vocals on the band and the producers are holding him back. Grow up!

This is an overrated stat line that tells you NOTHING of significance about the player and means next to NOTHING altogether.

+/- is intended to measure the player's impact on the court, good try but not successful. It tells you nothing about the individual performance besides how many points the team scored or was outscored respectively, while this particular player is in play. But you know, it depends on the whole team as a unit and not on the single player's contribution.

Even the best superstars, Jordan (1984-90) or LeBron (Cavs struggles) or Kobes of the world (the guy was averaging 20+ points and his usual assist and rebs rate, LAL team still sucked and Kobe ends up with -) can have a situation where they play with subpar teammates and even though are excellent in their individual performance, 1 guy cannot always make up for the deficiencies of 4 other starters and a bunch of people coming off the bench. My point is even the best Hall of Famers playing at the top of their game can have a negative +/- rating on a regular basis while keeping their atrocious teams afloat with superhuman play, or the other way around, of course.

For example, yesterday people were starting to complain since the very moment Bambi stepped on the floor. He had +5 or +6 at one point in the early first half (where the aforementioned quotes above come from, there are plenty of those and it's getting annoying) because we were on the run and Brooklyn couldn't make a jumpshot. Was that Bamba's effect - NO. Bamba played like his usual self, invisible, almost non-existent and no real impact on the game for his limited minutes. He just hanged around his other 4 teammates who were scoring more than the Nets. Measuring his performance with +/- or anyone else's individual impact is borderline idiotic.

In the end, Vuc had +17, Birch had +12 and Bambi finished with +1 even though he was part of some rotations that made huge runs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Only Aminu and Okeke had worse +/- on our team, what does that mean? Okeke played solid and finished with -6, Aminu contributed across the board in everything and was a positive presence on the floor and he finished with -4. Do you start to get it now?

What's that statistic telling you about the individual player??? In reality, nothing at all! I think this stat is redundant and should be ignored completely. It might mean that the competition is bad or very good, it might mean that a certain team got hot or cold when that player was on the floor, but never means that one player decides the outcome by his own contribution (happens rarely on superstar teams, never on the Magic in the recent years and certainly Bamba is not that player) therefore +/- should not be taken in account in serious basketball conversations.

Note: maybe, I say just maybe, if you have a transcending superstar or galactic-caliber unstoppable player, maybe then you can put some weight in the +/- nonsense because of the huge impact of that individual would be too great to deny and you might need a tool to measure his it on and off the court. But even in this particular scenario, this statistics is very misleading not accurate and does not hold much water.

Man... I touched a nerve with a stat that even I’ve said repeatedly is not a good indicator of value

I only started using it because I was tired of hearing that Bamba was unplayable.

And way to let it all out in the one game Vuc ended up having the advantage due to playing with an on-fire AG

[The Effect]

Everything is setting up perfectly to trade AG and Evan now for good return. Which means our management would probably manage to screw up and won't do it.

See what this team can do when healthy and clicking..... We can still make the play-in Tourney.... Time to buy, not sell!

[MagicFan101]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-rockets-want-warriors-top-assets-victor-oladipo-trade?fbclid=IwAR3ORF6g_jrDemr_wR9ToYEKtqiT8LusALUw2x_6r4r-h3qOhV_Fh3a-31c

For those of you who keep including Wiseman or the top pick in your trade ideas with the Warriors.

Just stop.