Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LI "Trade Deadline" Edition)

[OrlandO]

As additional subtext for Doug Collins' depressingly pessimistic take on how Andrew Bynum looked in his first team practice this season -- Collins basically said Bynum's absence killed the 76ers' season and he sees little chance of Bynum returning to change that based on how he looked -- sources say that Collins has been consumed (does he do anything any other way?) with tracking the boxscores and performances of Moe Harkless, the rookie forward the Sixers sent to Orlando as part of the deal that netted them Bynum. I can't say I've watched a load of Magic games this season or have a feel for the kind of season Harkless has had, but he's 19 and more or less has been in the rotation making a contribution all season long. That's more, obviously, than Bynum has done and it's not hard for me to imagine Collins torturing himself (and, quite possibly, others) with that fact.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/0 ... -harkless/

[rcklsscognition]

Seems like Al will make his season debut tonight.

[tiderulz]

Smart and Noel are both project players. Say both pan out. If I had a choice between Noel averaging 15/10/2 as an elite defensive anchor and Smart averaging 18/8 w/ great defense I would probably choose Noel because defensive bigs are some of the most valuable players in the league while good point guards are a dime a dozen.

completely disagree. You can find defensive bigs, but how many defensive PG's are out there? Most of the top PG's are all offense first. Rose/Westbrook/Parker/Nash(in his prime), none of them are great defensively. And with a great defender on the opposing PG's it disrupts a team's flow.

And not saying that Vuc is as good as Dwight, but look how worried everyone was about the center position with Dwight leaving and we now think we have a center for a long time to come.

To make some comparisons, Smart to Billups, Noel to Ibaka, I take the PG that runs the team over the defensive PF.

[G-Heel]

Here's some college statlines of some decent bigs over the years during their freshman year:

Shaq freshman stats: 14/12/3.6
Ewing freshman stats: 13/7/3
Mourning freshman stats: 13/7/5
Noel freshman stats: 10/10/4.4
Duncan freshman stats: 10/10/4
Monroe fresman stats: 13/7/2
Lopez Freshman stats: 13/6/2
Hibbert freshman stats: 5/4/1
Thabeet Freshman stats: 6/6/4 (not a decent big just thought I'd point out how much more raw he was than noel his freshman year)
Noah freshman stats: 4/3/1

I just don't think it's fair to write off Noel as a bust or claim he sucks when he's still only a freshman. Not saying he's going to be as good as those guys but its clear he has potential. That's why he remains so high on many draft boards even after the injury. Noel could potentially make us not worry about bigs for another 10 years with a big rotation of Noel/Vuc and role players of Nicholson/O'Quinn/Harris.

Good post. People are dismissing Noel, but he got the most potential out of every players in this draft and playing the most important position. He is also a good fit to our roster since we are desperately needing that defensive presence.

I can understand taking Smart over Noel, because we also need a PG, but most other players are not enticing at this moment. Taking a wing player is also OK but McLemore and Shabazz is not looking impressive. Also note that next year will have a few wings with high potential, and one of the twin that might be a better PG prospect than anyone this year.

I can't find a reason to take a PF or another center over Noel. No other big stands out or looks like they'll be better than Noel in the long run.

[arsenal6106]

Seems like Al will make his season debut tonight.

He probably wont play that much, but he will still be taking mins away from one of our young guys. I guess we need showcase him to the other gms.

Sent From Phone

[rcklsscognition]

As additional subtext for Doug Collins' depressingly pessimistic take on how Andrew Bynum looked in his first team practice this season -- Collins basically said Bynum's absence killed the 76ers' season and he sees little chance of Bynum returning to change that based on how he looked -- sources say that Collins has been consumed (does he do anything any other way?) with tracking the boxscores and performances of Moe Harkless, the rookie forward the Sixers sent to Orlando as part of the deal that netted them Bynum. I can't say I've watched a load of Magic games this season or have a feel for the kind of season Harkless has had, but he's 19 and more or less has been in the rotation making a contribution all season long. That's more, obviously, than Bynum has done and it's not hard for me to imagine Collins torturing himself (and, quite possibly, others) with that fact.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/0 ... -harkless/

Interesting. I read an article pre AS break about Collins being really upset about trading Vuc, didn't know he felt the same about Harkless.

[OrlChamps2030]

Smart and Noel are both project players. Say both pan out. If I had a choice between Noel averaging 15/10/2 as an elite defensive anchor and Smart averaging 18/8 w/ great defense I would probably choose Noel because defensive bigs are some of the most valuable players in the league while good point guards are a dime a dozen.

completely disagree. You can find defensive bigs, but how many defensive PG's are out there? Most of the top PG's are all offense first. Rose/Westbrook/Parker/Nash(in his prime), none of them are great defensively. And with a great defender on the opposing PG's it disrupts a team's flow.

And not saying that Vuc is as good as Dwight, but look how worried everyone was about the center position with Dwight leaving and we now think we have a center for a long time to come.

To make some comparisons, Smart to Billups, Noel to Ibaka, I take the PG that runs the team over the defensive PF.

There are defensive PGs out there. They just aren't starting because most teams value offense more than defense from the PG position.

Sorry I am misunderstanding your anecdote about Dwight and Vuc but what does Vuc have to do with defensive bigs?

Our GM's old team chose a defensive big over a superstar ball handler. PG defense gets a little overrated on here because we've had to watch Jameer so long. Look at how highly defensive bigs like Asik, Sanders, Chandler, D12, etc are valued.

[tiderulz]

As additional subtext for Doug Collins' depressingly pessimistic take on how Andrew Bynum looked in his first team practice this season -- Collins basically said Bynum's absence killed the 76ers' season and he sees little chance of Bynum returning to change that based on how he looked -- sources say that Collins has been consumed (does he do anything any other way?) with tracking the boxscores and performances of Moe Harkless, the rookie forward the Sixers sent to Orlando as part of the deal that netted them Bynum. I can't say I've watched a load of Magic games this season or have a feel for the kind of season Harkless has had, but he's 19 and more or less has been in the rotation making a contribution all season long. That's more, obviously, than Bynum has done and it's not hard for me to imagine Collins torturing himself (and, quite possibly, others) with that fact.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/0 ... -harkless/

Interesting. I read an article pre AS break about Collins being really upset about trading Vuc, didn't know he felt the same about Harkless.

considering he hardly ever played him, a little surprised that he would be upset about Vuc being moved.

[D12VCMagic]

Seems like Al will make his season debut tonight.

He probably wont play that much, but he will still be taking mins away from one of our young guys. I guess we need showcase him to the other gms.

Sent From Phone

The only young guy who HAS to lose minutes with Al is Jones, who really isn't a part of the future anyways. We have to let Al play so we can move him.

[tiderulz]

Smart and Noel are both project players. Say both pan out. If I had a choice between Noel averaging 15/10/2 as an elite defensive anchor and Smart averaging 18/8 w/ great defense I would probably choose Noel because defensive bigs are some of the most valuable players in the league while good point guards are a dime a dozen.

completely disagree. You can find defensive bigs, but how many defensive PG's are out there? Most of the top PG's are all offense first. Rose/Westbrook/Parker/Nash(in his prime), none of them are great defensively. And with a great defender on the opposing PG's it disrupts a team's flow.

And not saying that Vuc is as good as Dwight, but look how worried everyone was about the center position with Dwight leaving and we now think we have a center for a long time to come.

To make some comparisons, Smart to Billups, Noel to Ibaka, I take the PG that runs the team over the defensive PF.

There are defensive PGs out there. They just aren't starting because most teams value offense more than defense from the PG position.

Sorry I am misunderstanding your anecdote about Dwight and Vuc but what does Vuc have to do with defensive bigs?

Our GM's old team chose a defensive big over a superstar ball handler. PG defense gets a little overrated on here because we've had to watch Jameer so long. Look at how highly defensive bigs like Asik, Sanders, Chandler, D12, etc are valued.

the anecdote about Dwight and Vuc was people thought it would be next to impossible to get another good center, that you cant find many good bigs. But now we have Vuc, who looks better and better as the season goes on. So bigs can be found. Right now, we need a team leader especially at PG, also considering the league is pushing more towards wing play than big play. Just my opinion.

[bigdogdylan5]

I don't think Henny will bother with selecting Noel. Way to many red flags there. Don't be surprised if Henny with a top 4 pick selects Otto Porter I think he is extremely underrated and could be the safest pick to become an all star level player. He is 6-8 and I wouldn't be surprised with his shooting and midrange ability if he plays behind affalo at SG, he needs to improve his 3 point range which scouts are saying he is working on and he is getting better can u imagine a defensive front like PG/Porter/Harkless/Harris/Vuc. That is a big and Athletic lineup that can give people fits. At worst he is BPA and another asset that can be used. I am nearly 90% positive Henny will pick one of Porter Smart or Oladipo

[OrlChamps2030]

the anecdote about Dwight and Vuc was people thought it would be next to impossible to get another good center, that you cant find many good bigs. But now we have Vuc, who looks better and better as the season goes on. So bigs can be found. Right now, we need a team leader especially at PG, also considering the league is pushing more towards wing play than big play. Just my opinion.

Ah ok. I see where you're coming from. Bigs are hard to find and we got lucky with Vuc, I agree. Defensive bigs are even harder to find and we have a shot at getting a great one this upcoming draft.

I don't think we need a team leader at PG RIGHT NOW. We have two team leaders already there; Jameer and Beno. With the current state of basketball there will always be PGs coming out every year, look how many good pgs are in this league.

I agree with what G Hill was saying above. Noel is a great team fit. He would move Nicholson to a better position (6th man scorer) compliment Vuc greatly (strong finisher inside, covers Vuc's defensive weaknesses) and just adds overall great team defense and rebounding. Do you see a team starting Nicholson and Vuc together contending for championships?

Oh and BTW I am a big Smart fan. The three players I'd like to see on the Magic (in order, today, my rankings change weekly ) are Noel, Smart, and Burke. I also like Bennett and Porter a lot but don't see them as great team fits.

I'm not sure why posters say they don't see Hennigan choosing Noel when the team he was just on chose Ibaka over Harden.

[G-Heel]

Smart and Noel are both project players. Say both pan out. If I had a choice between Noel averaging 15/10/2 as an elite defensive anchor and Smart averaging 18/8 w/ great defense I would probably choose Noel because defensive bigs are some of the most valuable players in the league while good point guards are a dime a dozen.

completely disagree. You can find defensive bigs, but how many defensive PG's are out there? Most of the top PG's are all offense first. Rose/Westbrook/Parker/Nash(in his prime), none of them are great defensively. And with a great defender on the opposing PG's it disrupts a team's flow.

And not saying that Vuc is as good as Dwight, but look how worried everyone was about the center position with Dwight leaving and we now think we have a center for a long time to come.

To make some comparisons, Smart to Billups, Noel to Ibaka, I take the PG that runs the team over the defensive PF.

There's a reason why you don't see many defensive PGs, they just aren't that important. Lowry is a great defensive PG, but he isn't going to get minutes if he can't make his shots. Rondo is supposedly a good defender, but he still get lit up by good PGs pretty much all the time. Good PGs will get theirs, no matter how good you defend them.

Defensive centers are 100x more important, because they can shut down opposing team by manning the rim. They basically play half of the defense for the other players because they help when the opposing players drive in. Why do you think they're on every championship teams? Most important players are the wings and the defensive center IMO or PF if they can play good post defense. You don't need a great PG or scoring PF to win, you need great wings and post defense.

One thing Smart got going for him though, he has the size to guard opposing SG and I think that increases his defensive value a lot.

[BadMofoPimp]

All I know is I want nothing to do with a player as high risk as Noel being he has too many basketball deficiencies plus a major knee injury to take the risk of wasting a top 5 pick. Who knows if he will ever be prepared to dominate in the NBA not only physically, but mentally after missing an entire year to 18 months of basketball. Not saying he will be a bust, but he I seriously doubt he will ever become some superstar caliber player after all this besides being bad on offense while missing all that time.

[OrlChamps2030]

All I know is I want nothing to do with a player as high risk as Noel being he has too many basketball deficiencies plus a major knee injury to take the risk of wasting a top 5 pick. Who knows if he will ever be prepared to dominate in the NBA not only physically, but mentally after missing an entire year to 18 months of basketball. Not saying he will be a bust, but he I seriously doubt he will ever become some superstar caliber player after all this besides being bad on offense while missing all that time.

Hey man I can't blame you for labeling Noel high-risk. My problem is that people here don't seem to recognize Smart as a high-risk prospect also and thats why I've been defending Noel today. 30% from college 3, 40% FG shooting, only 4.2 assists per game combined with 3.2 turnovers, and not spectacular athleticism. Seems like a high-risk combo guard to me. Just like Noel is a high-risk defensive big.

[arsenal6106]

97 pages? That was quick.

Anyways, who wants to take care of part 52? Don't be shy.

[fendilim]

We all saw how Thomas Robinson struggled in the NBA and he was one of the most NBA ready players in last years draft. Now, Noel doesn't look nearly as good as TR did last year.

I say, hell the freak no!

Drummond says hi

[woosah]

We get a look at Harrington tonight. This game should be fun.

[arsenal6106]

I'm warming up part 52..

[Def Swami]

We get a look at Harrington tonight. This game should be fun.

He can start to build his off-season trade value.