Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LXI Countdown To Preseason)

NickAnderson · Post #1441 » by **NickAnderson** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:16 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:Varnado waived, but who cares we don't need shotblockers.

Agreed.

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BadMofoPimp · Post #1442 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:34 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Howard Mass wrote:The Gordon Hayward deal definitely drives up the price to keep Harkless and Harris. I doubt The Magic will pay both.

It is not like they are guaranteed All-Stars. I think Harkless is just a better version of Ariza with better defense and Harris a borderline All-Star. It is not like that makes them anywhere near max players. I bet Harkless gets no better deal than Afflalo has now at best and Harris maybe up to $9-10 mil per.

This is what they should be paid, but based on how young they are they will get alot more. It's stupid I know.

I disagree. With the current CBA, I doubt they get any offers more than that elsewhere. This is where Henny gets paid to be a great GM is to cut deals and get players to sign for what they are worth while not overpaying like Gordon Hayward which to me is absolutely ridiculous. He is barely worth the MLE at that. And, Harkless is not even as good as Redick. Until he proves he is the better player with upside, he deserves no more than $6 mil per, but maybe up to $7.5 like Afflalo. Harkless is not going to be any all-star as it appears to me thus far. Just not that elite of a player, but a solid top elite Tony Allen type of defensive player. And, Tony Allen makes like $5 mil per. Hark will be lucky to get more than $6 mil per and I stand by that.

Just Plain Mark · Post #1443 » by **Just Plain Mark** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:35 pm

I don't understand the mindset that the Jazz "have" to overpay their talent because they aren't a desirable FA destination. At a certain point, from both a business/financial perspective and a basketball competitive perspective, overpaying doesn't make sense.

I just don't foresee Hayward and Favors (and Kanter and Burke and Burks) making the Jazz a competitive team in the West. The Jazz could theoretically be more competitive with Millsap instead of Favors and Millsap is making less money.

To me the Favors extension is like a slightly less aggregious version of the Harris - Redick trade: best case scenario you're a low seed playoff team without a real hope for improving.

Orlwillbeback · Post #1444 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:40 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
I disagree. With the current CBA, I doubt they get any offers more than that elsewhere. This is where Henny gets paid to be a great GM is to cut deals and get players to sign for what they are worth while not overpaying like Gordon Hayward which to me is absolutely ridiculous. He is barely worth the MLE at that. And, Harkless is not even as good as Redick. Until he proves he is the better player with upside, he deserves no more than $6 mil per, but maybe up to $7.5 like Afflalo. Harkless is not going to be any all-star as it appears to me thus far. Just not that elite of a player, but a solid top elite Tony Allen type of defensive player. And, Tony Allen makes like $5 mil per. Hark will be lucky to get more than $6 mil per and I stand by that.

I hope you're right because I don't wanna pay Hark no 12 million a year lol

Neon1 · Post #1445 » by **Neon1** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:49 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
I disagree. With the current CBA, I doubt they get any offers more than that elsewhere. This is where Henny gets paid to be a great GM is to cut deals and get players to sign for what they are worth while not overpaying like Gordon Hayward which to me is absolutely ridiculous. He is barely worth the MLE at that. And, Harkless is not even as good as Redick. Until he proves he is the better player with upside, he deserves no more than $6 mil per, but maybe up to $7.5 like Afflalo. Harkless is not going to be any all-star as it appears to me thus far. Just not that elite of a player, but a solid top elite Tony Allen type of defensive player. And, Tony Allen makes like $5 mil per. Hark will be lucky to get more than $6 mil per and I stand by that.

I hope you're right because I don't wanna pay Hark no 12 million a year lol

Steph Curry, Josh Smith, Monta Ellis, Iggy ect all got like 11 mill a year. Guys talking like Hark is getting that type of money have lost their minds. He is not that caliber of player.

InFlames · Post #1446 » by **InFlames** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:50 pm

This will be Dipo's competition for the RoY. McLemore has been impressive and will probably be the Kings starting 2. He is shooting 49% from 2 and 40% from 3. He is going to be good.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeBGoGq5tWY[/youtube]

OrlandoNed · Post #1447 » by **OrlandoNed** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:50 pm

Just Plain Mark wrote:I don't understand the mindset that the Jazz "have" to overpay their talent because they aren't a desirable FA destination. At a certain point, from both a business/financial perspective and a basketball competitive perspective, overpaying doesn't make sense.

Since Utah is not a desirable FA destination, you'd have to believe it isn't that desirable to kids who get drafted by the Jazz. Teams have 3 ways to build, free agency, draft or trade. Utah can't recruit free agents unless they're desperate for a job, so they can only really build successfully through the draft or trade. If you don't overpay your talented draft picks when their contracts are up, then they are gone the first chance they get for either more money and better cities, or the same money and better cities or less money just to get out of Salt Lake City.

What's not to understand? Heck you have the answer in your first sentence "the Jazz "have" to overpay their talent because they aren't a desirable FA destination.".

j-ragg · Post #1448 » by **j-ragg** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:04 pm

InFlames wrote:This will be Dipo's competition for the RoY. McLemore has been impressive and will probably be the Kings starting 2. He is shooting 49% from 2 and 40% from 3. He is going to be good.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeBGoGq5tWY[/youtube]

Not much of a fan. I feel like he'll always have a low fg percentage because he shoots jumpshots in half court sets. Even in college, his highlights are either fastbreak dunks or jumpers. Which is fine and all, just not my cup of tea.

He doesn't fill up a stat sheet either. Not a very good rebounder or passer.

Gomagic44 · Post #1449 » by **Gomagic44** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:05 pm

Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

InFlames · Post #1450 » by **InFlames** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:16 pm

j-ragg wrote:
InFlames wrote:This will be Dipo's competition for the RoY. McLemore has been impressive and will probably be the Kings starting 2. He is shooting 49% from 2 and 40% from 3. He is going to be good.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeBGoGq5tWY[/youtube]

Not much of a fan. I feel like he'll always have a low fg percentage because he shoots jumpshots in half court sets. Even in college, his highlights are either fastbreak dunks or jumpers. Which is fine and all, just not my cup of tea.

He doesn't fill up a stat sheet either. Not a very good rebounder or passer.

Him and Oladipo are as different as can be. Oladipo is a do it all/ball-handling type of guard while McLemore is the sniping, Bradley Beal type guard. His shot is flat out gorgeous and he will be a terror coming off of screens.

Catledge · Post #1451 » by **Catledge** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:29 pm

Seems like overpaying Kanter, Favors, and Haywood is basically a decision to be an 8 seed for the duration of their careers. They would have been better off keeping Milsap and Jefferson and trading their young guys for solid vets. That would have been a decision to be an 8 seed for 4 more years instead of 10.

BadMofoPimp · Post #1452 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:44 pm

Neon1 wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
I disagree. With the current CBA, I doubt they get any offers more than that elsewhere. This is where Henny gets paid to be a great GM is to cut deals and get players to sign for what they are worth while not overpaying like Gordon Hayward which to me is absolutely ridiculous. He is barely worth the MLE at that. And, Harkless is not even as good as Redick. Until he proves he is the better player with upside, he deserves no more than $6 mil per, but maybe up to $7.5 like Afflalo. Harkless is not going to be any all-star as it appears to me thus far. Just not that elite of a player, but a solid top elite Tony Allen type of defensive player. And, Tony Allen makes like $5 mil per. Hark will be lucky to get more than $6 mil per and I stand by that.

I hope you're right because I don't wanna pay Hark no 12 million a year lol

Steph Curry, Josh Smith, Monta Ellis, Iggy ect all got like 11 mill a year. Guys talking like Hark is getting that type of money have lost their minds. He is not that caliber of player.

But, every championship team needs $6-8 million elite defensive stoppers on their team.

BadMofoPimp · Post #1453 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:47 pm

Catledge wrote:Seems like overpaying Kanter, Favors, and Haywood is basically a decision to be an 8 seed for the duration of their careers. They would have been better off keeping Milsap and Jefferson and trading their young guys for solid vets. That would have been a decision to be an 8 seed for 4 more years instead of 10.

Personally, I think Al Jeff and Milsap are better than these guys potential. Hence, what you stated would be perfect. Imagine adding some All-Star talent to play with Al and Milsap . . .

What were they thinking?

BadMofoPimp · Post #1454 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:50 pm

Gomagic44 wrote:Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

Even though I think Oladipo has the higher upside, McLemore being slighted in the draft may be just enough motivation to win out ROY this year.

If he plays well alongside Cousins, that team could surprise.

OrlChamps2030 · Post #1455 » by **OrlChamps2030** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:10 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:That's pretty much all that a team like Utah can do. Utah will always be either a treadmill team who has to overpay young talent and occasionally earn a low playoff seed or a farm team who sucks, gets a high draft pick, develops him for a few years, gets a reasonable contract extension offer turned down, and then loses him in free agency or trades him for picks and prospects. Rinse, lather, repeat.

It's not a great situation for them, but they can't change it. They have two ways to go, treadmill or farm. Atleast with the treadmill option, they have a very slim chance at retaining some young player who might become something very special.

So if Utah gets the #1 pick in this draft and gets Wiggins/Randle/Parker/etc. are they still a treadmill team? They look set to tank the year. I disagree with labeling Utah as a treadmill team this early..although it's possible.. But Utah is ALWAYS going to be a treadmill team or a farm team? Come on dude... You remember the success of the Jazz w/ Sloan, Stockton, & co. ? Also 4 or 5 50 win seasons in a row in a brutal western conference with D-Will, AK47, Booz, & co... I think you're thinking of the Bucks.

I also disagree with those who think Favors contract is unfair. If he puts up a double double with elite defense this year then they will just be happy they didn't have to pay the max. While Hayward is a bit underrated 50+ mill is a steep price for him and it could be a mistake.

Driguez · Post #1456 » by **Driguez** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:57 pm

Gomagic44 wrote:Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

He has a good looking shot ala Allen. But he's more athletic than Allen.

dsg2021 · Post #1457 » by **dsg2021** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:03 pm

Gomagic44 wrote:Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

Exactly. I also believe this is where he would shine best both early on and consistently in his career. The Magic have plenty of similarity and system play to put McLemore in a J.J.-like role who would be an elite shot maker for the Magic spacing which is critical in both a system and alongside a more clear No1 option like say a Tobias or a 2014 draft player. I'm honestly still a little devastated the Magic passed on him. Good thing Im getting more into being a player fan and rooting for secondary teams. How else am I going to justify watching some CP3 and Clippers games this season haha.

nicnac215 · Post #1458 » by **nicnac215** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:20 pm

Driguez wrote:
Gomagic44 wrote:Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

He has a good looking shot ala Allen. But he's more athletic than Allen.

He reminds me of nick young more than Ray Allen. Also Ray Allen was a stud athlete. He was in the slam dunk contest back in 97.

Orlwillbeback · Post #1459 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:22 pm

dsg2021 wrote:
Gomagic44 wrote:Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

Exactly. I also believe this is where he would shine best both early on and consistently in his career. The Magic have plenty of similarity and system play to put McLemore in a J.J.-like role who would be an elite shot maker for the Magic spacing which is critical in both a system and alongside a more clear No1 option like say a Tobias or a 2014 draft player. I'm honestly still a little devastated the Magic passed on him. Good thing Im getting more into being a player fan and rooting for secondary teams. How else am I going to justify watching some CP3 and Clippers games this season haha.

i still feel oladipo is a better player however. He can contribute in all areas whereas Mclemore will have games where his shot isnt falling.

InFlames · Post #1460 » by **InFlames** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:42 pm

nicnac215 wrote:
Driguez wrote:
Gomagic44 wrote:Maclemore looks like a ray Allen shooting prototype. Looks good. If they feed him the ball off screens like that all season, he could have a hell of a season

He has a good looking shot ala Allen. But he's more athletic than Allen.

He reminds me of nick young more than Ray Allen. Also Ray Allen was a stud athlete. He was in the slam dunk contest back in 97.

Do you mean athletically? McLemore and Young both have elite athleticism but as far as players go they are completely different. Nick Young is a ball dominating/blackhole chucker while McLemore is an efficient off the ball player.