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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1441 » by Knightro » Sat Jan 8, 2022 2:47 am

MasterGMer wrote:If we get either Smith, Banchero or Chet, does that mean Isaac is possibly on his way out?

I honestly want him on the roster. He is a DOY candidate when healthy. I just doubt his involvement with the team and how much he is trying to fit in.

I am so sick of the jam at PG and PF spots for us. I really hope for a big trade to bring more fit and roster management to the current team.

We will see...


You can do worse than....

Isaac/Carter/Holmgren
Isaac/Carter/Smith
Isaac/Carter/Banchero

Soaking up most of the big man (PF/C) minutes.

Like maybe Isaac at PF, Holmgren at C with Carter backing up both spots.

Or Banchero at PF and Carter at C with Isaac backing up both spots.

Or Smith at PF and Isaac at C with Carter backing up both spots.

And on and on. There's ways to make it work.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1442 » by MasterGMer » Sat Jan 8, 2022 2:50 am

Knightro wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:If we get either Smith, Banchero or Chet, does that mean Isaac is possibly on his way out?

I honestly want him on the roster. He is a DOY candidate when healthy. I just doubt his involvement with the team and how much he is trying to fit in.

I am so sick of the jam at PG and PF spots for us. I really hope for a big trade to bring more fit and roster management to the current team.

We will see...


You can do worse than....

Isaac/Carter/Holmgren
Isaac/Carter/Smith
Isaac/Carter/Banchero

Soaking up most of the big man (PF/C) minutes.

Like maybe Isaac at PF, Holmgren at C with Carter backing up both spots.

Or Banchero at PF and Carter at C with Isaac backing up both spots.

Or Smith at PF and Isaac at C with Carter backing up both spots.

And on and on. There's ways to make it work.


Count me in. I am all for these guys. Also keeping Isaac
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1443 » by basketballRob » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:28 am

Looks like Cole and Franz are both game-time decisions. I think they both have legit ankle injuries. It's just ironic that we're playing Detroit.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1444 » by KillMonger » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:28 am

Knightro wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:If we get either Smith, Banchero or Chet, does that mean Isaac is possibly on his way out?

I honestly want him on the roster. He is a DOY candidate when healthy. I just doubt his involvement with the team and how much he is trying to fit in.

I am so sick of the jam at PG and PF spots for us. I really hope for a big trade to bring more fit and roster management to the current team.

We will see...


You can do worse than....

Isaac/Carter/Holmgren
Isaac/Carter/Smith
Isaac/Carter/Banchero

Soaking up most of the big man (PF/C) minutes.

Like maybe Isaac at PF, Holmgren at C with Carter backing up both spots.

Or Banchero at PF and Carter at C with Isaac backing up both spots.

Or Smith at PF and Isaac at C with Carter backing up both spots.

And on and on. There's ways to make it work.

yeah you can definitely make that work....if anything it's the guard rotation we may have to clean up soon
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1445 » by Bensational » Sat Jan 8, 2022 4:05 am

KillMonger wrote:
Knightro wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:If we get either Smith, Banchero or Chet, does that mean Isaac is possibly on his way out?

I honestly want him on the roster. He is a DOY candidate when healthy. I just doubt his involvement with the team and how much he is trying to fit in.

I am so sick of the jam at PG and PF spots for us. I really hope for a big trade to bring more fit and roster management to the current team.

We will see...


You can do worse than....

Isaac/Carter/Holmgren
Isaac/Carter/Smith
Isaac/Carter/Banchero

Soaking up most of the big man (PF/C) minutes.

Like maybe Isaac at PF, Holmgren at C with Carter backing up both spots.

Or Banchero at PF and Carter at C with Isaac backing up both spots.

Or Smith at PF and Isaac at C with Carter backing up both spots.

And on and on. There's ways to make it work.

yeah you can definitely make that work....if anything it's the guard rotation we may have to clean up soon


At this point you take the best you can get, put them on the court to see who plays and fits best and then move the rest. If new additions look like they’ll make someone like RJ, Isaac or WCJ a future bench piece, it’s probably better to try move them for potential value earlier rather than their role player value later.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1446 » by thelead » Sat Jan 8, 2022 5:31 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
thelead wrote:We're finally tanking right... in a year with a weak draft :lol:

Most of the trusted draft guys I follow have not labeled this a weak draft. They’ve said it’s a difficult one to judge, with how difficult scouting has been during covid times, but not weak. Im not sure what’s given you that idea.

Smith, Banchero, and Chet is a pretty strong top 3. I’d say all of them are tier 2 prospects, which suggest multiple all star appearances. Ivey is intriguing.

I desperately want a top 3 pick and the chance to add one of those players. Hopefully tomorrow we sit Franz/Cole and give ourselves a shot at doing so.

Weak may be too harsh a word but if we fall to the 5th or 6th pick, we’re likely not going to be excited about our pick. The top 3 or 4 are pretty good prospects.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1447 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 6:10 am

Unpopular opinion: Jabari Smith is overrated prospect.

He is 6'10 jumpshooter in fashion of Markannen, Galinari or post injuries Porzingis, just isn't white to be pushed into that box.
He is mediocre rebounder ( last 2 games he collected 5 rebounds total ) he isn't much of a passer and he isn't really all that skilled once he puts ball on the floor, his team just lets him cross half court with ball for gimmicky "draft stock" reasons, not because there is really any value in it.
But he is elite catch& shoot shooter who from time to time can get his own shot, but it's fry cry from players who actually create offense for themselfs.

There are some ludacris KD, GIannis comparisons flying around and they simply have no ground in reality.

He will probably be very good shooter in nba. I'm not sure what else execlly he will do at elite level where he should be 1# pick.

Or it feeds right into narrative of not so strong draft, where teams decide between self centric- me first- Banchero, 195 pounds center and 3 and D PF.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1448 » by zaymon » Sat Jan 8, 2022 7:06 am

pepe1991 wrote:Unpopular opinion: Jabari Smith is overrated prospect.

He is 6'10 jumpshooter in fashion of Markannen, Galinari or post injuries Porzingis, just isn't white to be pushed into that box.
He is mediocre rebounder ( last 2 games he collected 5 rebounds total ) he isn't much of a passer and he isn't really all that skilled once he puts ball on the floor, his team just lets him cross half court with ball for gimmicky "draft stock" reasons, not because there is really any value in it.
But he is elite catch& shoot shooter who from time to time can get his own shot, but it's fry cry from players who actually create offense for themselfs.

There are some ludacris KD, GIannis comparisons flying around and they simply have no ground in reality.

He will probably be very good shooter in nba. I'm not sure what else execlly he will do at elite level where he should be 1# pick.

Or it feeds right into narrative of not so strong draft, where teams decide between self centric- me first- Banchero, 195 pounds center and 3 and D PF.


Great minds think alike
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1449 » by JTG_92940618 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 8:43 am

On the other hand, Jabari is 6'10 but moves well enough to play on the perimeter. As a result, most of his matchups will be guys he can easily shoot over - like a mini-KD. That's a big deal for me. We've already seen how much size has meant for Franz when driving. Jabari should be the same except with shooting.

Jabari is not just a catch-and-shoot guy either, he can shoot off the dribble and he knows how to create space with jab steps and fakes when covered. This is effective because he's a treat to get by his man. Personally, I think he can handle well enough in the half-court and certainly well enough to blow by big guys if they are matched up against him. Markkanen, Krisptas, and Danilo don't move anywhere near as quickly as he does, so it doesn't matter if they have better handles or not.

Defensively, just being as big and long as he is should allow him to be helpful. He definitely has quick feet though. He should also be able to see over defences to make passes so he has upside as passer.

Rebounding is a problem for sure but he adds more than enough to cover one weakness.

This is a good video which shows some of the stuff I'm talking about:

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1450 » by zaymon » Sat Jan 8, 2022 9:34 am

JTG_92940618 wrote:On the other hand, Jabari is 6'10 but moves well enough to play on the perimeter. As a result, most of his matchups will be guys he can easily shoot over - like a mini-KD. That's a big deal for me. We've already seen how much size has meant for Franz when driving. Jabari should be the same except with shooting.

Jabari is not just a catch-and-shoot guy either, he can shoot off the dribble and he knows how to create space with jab steps and fakes when covered. This is effective because he's a treat to get by his man. Personally, I think he can handle well enough in the half-court and certainly well enough to blow by big guys if they are matched up against him. Markkanen, Krisptas, and Danilo don't move anywhere near as quickly as he does, so it doesn't matter if they have better handles or not.

Defensively, just being as big and long as he is should allow him to be helpful. He definitely has quick feet though. He should also be able to see over defences to make passes so he has upside as passer.

Rebounding is a problem for sure but he adds more than enough to cover one weakness.

This is a good video which shows some of the stuff I'm talking about:



He still didnt go to the rim even once this game and thats what worrisome. Nobody questions his shooting and defense, but thats 3&D skill set, extremely valueable in the nba but much easier to find than offensive creator. What makes Wagner unique is his ball handling with change of speeds, finishing at the rim, quick decision making. I am not saying Smith cant improve, but there is not enough flashes for me. If i choose between 3&d (Smith) and elite rim protector with some mobility, advanced passing and range (Holmgren) i pick rim protector


You now see the difference ?
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1451 » by The Effect » Sat Jan 8, 2022 9:39 am

thelead wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
thelead wrote:We're finally tanking right... in a year with a weak draft :lol:

Most of the trusted draft guys I follow have not labeled this a weak draft. They’ve said it’s a difficult one to judge, with how difficult scouting has been during covid times, but not weak. Im not sure what’s given you that idea.

Smith, Banchero, and Chet is a pretty strong top 3. I’d say all of them are tier 2 prospects, which suggest multiple all star appearances. Ivey is intriguing.

I desperately want a top 3 pick and the chance to add one of those players. Hopefully tomorrow we sit Franz/Cole and give ourselves a shot at doing so.

Weak may be too harsh a word but if we fall to the 5th or 6th pick, we’re likely not going to be excited about our pick. The top 3 or 4 are pretty good prospects.


If we fall to 5-6, I'm still happily taking Johnny Davis. Dude just reminds me so much a slightly shorter Kentucky Devin Booker

I'm not sure where I'm playing him, or who's moving to the bench, but you take best player available, and 5 years after this draft, it wouldn't surprise me if he's the best overall player from the draft
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1452 » by JTG_92940618 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 9:58 am

zaymon wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:On the other hand, Jabari is 6'10 but moves well enough to play on the perimeter. As a result, most of his matchups will be guys he can easily shoot over - like a mini-KD. That's a big deal for me. We've already seen how much size has meant for Franz when driving. Jabari should be the same except with shooting.

Jabari is not just a catch-and-shoot guy either, he can shoot off the dribble and he knows how to create space with jab steps and fakes when covered. This is effective because he's a treat to get by his man. Personally, I think he can handle well enough in the half-court and certainly well enough to blow by big guys if they are matched up against him. Markkanen, Krisptas, and Danilo don't move anywhere near as quickly as he does, so it doesn't matter if they have better handles or not.

Defensively, just being as big and long as he is should allow him to be helpful. He definitely has quick feet though. He should also be able to see over defences to make passes so he has upside as passer.

Rebounding is a problem for sure but he adds more than enough to cover one weakness.

This is a good video which shows some of the stuff I'm talking about:



He still didnt go to the rim even once this game and thats what worrisome. Nobody questions his shooting and defense, but thats 3&D skill set, extremely valueable in the nba but much easier to find than offensive creator. What makes Wagner unique is his ball handling with change of speeds, finishing at the rim, quick decision making. I am not saying Smith cant improve, but there is not enough flashes for me. If i choose between 3&d (Smith) and elite rim protector with some mobility, advanced passing and range (Holmgren) i pick rim protector


You now see the difference ?


But Jabari does create offence for himself. In that video I posted you see him:

1. catch, dribble to the side to avoid his opponent, and shoot.
2. Catch, jab step to create space and shoot
3. Catch, dribble in, pump fake, draw a shooting foul after the defender bites on the fake
4. Defensive rebound, dribble up the floor, and pull up for 2
5. Catch, rip through to draw a shooting foul
6. Dribble inside the 3 point line and hit a turn around jump shot

When someone is a 3&D player, they park their arse in the corner and take threes. At best, a typical 3&D player can attack the closeout. Think about Trevor Ariza in Houston. Jabari is much more than that.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1453 » by Bensational » Sat Jan 8, 2022 10:03 am

pepe1991 wrote:Unpopular opinion: Jabari Smith is overrated prospect.

He is 6'10 jumpshooter in fashion of Markannen, Galinari or post injuries Porzingis, just isn't white to be pushed into that box.
He is mediocre rebounder ( last 2 games he collected 5 rebounds total ) he isn't much of a passer and he isn't really all that skilled once he puts ball on the floor, his team just lets him cross half court with ball for gimmicky "draft stock" reasons, not because there is really any value in it.
But he is elite catch& shoot shooter who from time to time can get his own shot, but it's fry cry from players who actually create offense for themselfs.

There are some ludacris KD, GIannis comparisons flying around and they simply have no ground in reality.

He will probably be very good shooter in nba. I'm not sure what else execlly he will do at elite level where he should be 1# pick.

Or it feeds right into narrative of not so strong draft, where teams decide between self centric- me first- Banchero, 195 pounds center and 3 and D PF.


I don’t see any reason why Jabari can’t step into the league and do what Franz has been doing this season - circumstances pending.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1454 » by zaymon » Sat Jan 8, 2022 10:26 am

JTG_92940618 wrote:
zaymon wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:On the other hand, Jabari is 6'10 but moves well enough to play on the perimeter. As a result, most of his matchups will be guys he can easily shoot over - like a mini-KD. That's a big deal for me. We've already seen how much size has meant for Franz when driving. Jabari should be the same except with shooting.

Jabari is not just a catch-and-shoot guy either, he can shoot off the dribble and he knows how to create space with jab steps and fakes when covered. This is effective because he's a treat to get by his man. Personally, I think he can handle well enough in the half-court and certainly well enough to blow by big guys if they are matched up against him. Markkanen, Krisptas, and Danilo don't move anywhere near as quickly as he does, so it doesn't matter if they have better handles or not.

Defensively, just being as big and long as he is should allow him to be helpful. He definitely has quick feet though. He should also be able to see over defences to make passes so he has upside as passer.

Rebounding is a problem for sure but he adds more than enough to cover one weakness.

This is a good video which shows some of the stuff I'm talking about:



He still didnt go to the rim even once this game and thats what worrisome. Nobody questions his shooting and defense, but thats 3&D skill set, extremely valueable in the nba but much easier to find than offensive creator. What makes Wagner unique is his ball handling with change of speeds, finishing at the rim, quick decision making. I am not saying Smith cant improve, but there is not enough flashes for me. If i choose between 3&d (Smith) and elite rim protector with some mobility, advanced passing and range (Holmgren) i pick rim protector


You now see the difference ?


But Jabari does create offence for himself. In that video I posted you see him:

1. catch, dribble to the side to avoid his opponent, and shoot.
2. Catch, jab step to create space and shoot
3. Catch, dribble in, pump fake, draw a shooting foul after the defender bites on the fake
4. Defensive rebound, dribble up the floor, and pull up for 2
5. Catch, rip through to draw a shooting foul
6. Dribble inside the 3 point line and hit a turn around jump shot

When someone is a 3&D player, they park their arse in the corner and take threes. At best, a typical 3&D player can attack the closeout. Think about Trevor Ariza in Houston. Jabari is much more than that.


He has some movement to his shooting but its still very limited and he cant get to the rim. Dribble moves are very simple. I am not sure he is that proficient even with attacking closeouts.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1455 » by pepe1991 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 11:53 am

Bensational wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Unpopular opinion: Jabari Smith is overrated prospect.

He is 6'10 jumpshooter in fashion of Markannen, Galinari or post injuries Porzingis, just isn't white to be pushed into that box.
He is mediocre rebounder ( last 2 games he collected 5 rebounds total ) he isn't much of a passer and he isn't really all that skilled once he puts ball on the floor, his team just lets him cross half court with ball for gimmicky "draft stock" reasons, not because there is really any value in it.
But he is elite catch& shoot shooter who from time to time can get his own shot, but it's fry cry from players who actually create offense for themselfs.

There are some ludacris KD, GIannis comparisons flying around and they simply have no ground in reality.

He will probably be very good shooter in nba. I'm not sure what else execlly he will do at elite level where he should be 1# pick.

Or it feeds right into narrative of not so strong draft, where teams decide between self centric- me first- Banchero, 195 pounds center and 3 and D PF.


I don’t see any reason why Jabari can’t step into the league and do what Franz has been doing this season - circumstances pending.


With all due respect to Franz, i'm not drafting him 1# on any draft. If that type of player is viewed as 1# pick, i'm trading down or trading pick.

As for Jabari, there is clear issue with him trying to create offense, opposite of letting offense being brought to him.
He shoots just 31,6% from mid range. This mainly comes from fact he has no ballhandling skills. He is face up player who does his usual gimmick once he gets ball and there is no open jumpshot. He does side fake, takes 2 steps and dribbles himself into mid range.
Furthermore evidence of him not being as versitale as people here belive comes from pure fact he took almost twice as many long twos over layups, postups or anything close to a rim. Partically because he plays with center, but partically because he didn't really show ability to be post presence nor he showed much of versitality as scorer in terms of driving to hoop.
He isn't some epic athlete, rather average one that looks kind a slow at times.

In general Jabari Parker, at least imo is player that will be solid because league is perimeter oriented but i simply don't see some 25+ ppg player who will be go to guy or guy who you will trust with ball in close game situations. He looks more like player you want to attach to your superstar PG so PG can shake off his defender, as Jabari will keep them honest and not allow gambles due his shooting. Basically fitting right into Porzingis & Jaren Jackson role for Doncic & Morant. However, on team that does not have that type of star ballhandler, there will be lot of Jabari Parker getting ball, doing 3 steps and hoisting low percentage shots.

In potential fits for Magic, he is PF, i really can't imagine him on perimeter especially because we have Wagner. He showed literally no screening or pick&roll action as big so he can't play nothing but PF. So... Isaac can go kick rocks i guess if we draft him. ( and/or creating yet another logjam at PF with Jabari, Isaac, Wendell Carter and Okeke ).

Youtube videos of him make him look like megastar because those are all highlights that don't show possessions where offense stops so Jabari can try to figure what he can't do. This is best i could find that goes in depth about things fans and especially scouts don't like to talk about. 7'0 wingspan, lack of fluidity, lack of verticality , being below rim player and actual footages where he just does not play well ( and all positives also, ofc )

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1456 » by OrlChamps2030 » Sat Jan 8, 2022 12:43 pm

The Effect wrote:
thelead wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Most of the trusted draft guys I follow have not labeled this a weak draft. They’ve said it’s a difficult one to judge, with how difficult scouting has been during covid times, but not weak. Im not sure what’s given you that idea.

Smith, Banchero, and Chet is a pretty strong top 3. I’d say all of them are tier 2 prospects, which suggest multiple all star appearances. Ivey is intriguing.

I desperately want a top 3 pick and the chance to add one of those players. Hopefully tomorrow we sit Franz/Cole and give ourselves a shot at doing so.

Weak may be too harsh a word but if we fall to the 5th or 6th pick, we’re likely not going to be excited about our pick. The top 3 or 4 are pretty good prospects.


If we fall to 5-6, I'm still happily taking Johnny Davis. Dude just reminds me so much a slightly shorter Kentucky Devin Booker

I'm not sure where I'm playing him, or who's moving to the bench, but you take best player available, and 5 years after this draft, it wouldn't surprise me if he's the best overall player from the draft


Agreed - I think someone in the 6-10 range will be really happy with one of the 2 guards mocked to go after the top of the draft (Mathurin, Davis)

Prediction: one of those 2 guards above becomes an all star caliber player a la Booker/Mitchell despite going outside of the top of the draft.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1457 » by Optimus_Steel » Sat Jan 8, 2022 2:45 pm

basketballRob wrote:Looks like Cole and Franz are both game-time decisions. I think they both have legit ankle injuries. It's just ironic that we're playing Detroit.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1458 » by tiderulz » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:12 pm

zaymon wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:On the other hand, Jabari is 6'10 but moves well enough to play on the perimeter. As a result, most of his matchups will be guys he can easily shoot over - like a mini-KD. That's a big deal for me. We've already seen how much size has meant for Franz when driving. Jabari should be the same except with shooting.

Jabari is not just a catch-and-shoot guy either, he can shoot off the dribble and he knows how to create space with jab steps and fakes when covered. This is effective because he's a treat to get by his man. Personally, I think he can handle well enough in the half-court and certainly well enough to blow by big guys if they are matched up against him. Markkanen, Krisptas, and Danilo don't move anywhere near as quickly as he does, so it doesn't matter if they have better handles or not.

Defensively, just being as big and long as he is should allow him to be helpful. He definitely has quick feet though. He should also be able to see over defences to make passes so he has upside as passer.

Rebounding is a problem for sure but he adds more than enough to cover one weakness.

This is a good video which shows some of the stuff I'm talking about:



He still didnt go to the rim even once this game and thats what worrisome. Nobody questions his shooting and defense, but thats 3&D skill set, extremely valueable in the nba but much easier to find than offensive creator. What makes Wagner unique is his ball handling with change of speeds, finishing at the rim, quick decision making. I am not saying Smith cant improve, but there is not enough flashes for me. If i choose between 3&d (Smith) and elite rim protector with some mobility, advanced passing and range (Holmgren) i pick rim protector


You now see the difference ?

i question whether Holmgren can be an elite rim protector with his slight frame. and if he does bulk up somewhat, does he lose that fluidity and slow down?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1459 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:15 pm

KillMonger wrote:Image

I'm surprised this didn't get any attention around here. Where did you get this? Is it an official injury list? It would be great to get all of these players back this month. Isaac is the only one I don't see coming back until around the All-Star break.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1460 » by zaymon » Sat Jan 8, 2022 3:24 pm

tiderulz wrote:
zaymon wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:On the other hand, Jabari is 6'10 but moves well enough to play on the perimeter. As a result, most of his matchups will be guys he can easily shoot over - like a mini-KD. That's a big deal for me. We've already seen how much size has meant for Franz when driving. Jabari should be the same except with shooting.

Jabari is not just a catch-and-shoot guy either, he can shoot off the dribble and he knows how to create space with jab steps and fakes when covered. This is effective because he's a treat to get by his man. Personally, I think he can handle well enough in the half-court and certainly well enough to blow by big guys if they are matched up against him. Markkanen, Krisptas, and Danilo don't move anywhere near as quickly as he does, so it doesn't matter if they have better handles or not.

Defensively, just being as big and long as he is should allow him to be helpful. He definitely has quick feet though. He should also be able to see over defences to make passes so he has upside as passer.

Rebounding is a problem for sure but he adds more than enough to cover one weakness.

This is a good video which shows some of the stuff I'm talking about:



He still didnt go to the rim even once this game and thats what worrisome. Nobody questions his shooting and defense, but thats 3&D skill set, extremely valueable in the nba but much easier to find than offensive creator. What makes Wagner unique is his ball handling with change of speeds, finishing at the rim, quick decision making. I am not saying Smith cant improve, but there is not enough flashes for me. If i choose between 3&d (Smith) and elite rim protector with some mobility, advanced passing and range (Holmgren) i pick rim protector


You now see the difference ?

i question whether Holmgren can be an elite rim protector with his slight frame. and if he does bulk up somewhat, does he lose that fluidity and slow down?


Well its performance department job to figure out. His game is not dependent on quickness right now, but timing and positioning, so i think he will be fine. Guarding perimeter could be a problem, but even Bamba is not exposed that often and he is much stiffer. Playing next to WCJ is masking some deficiences, let alone playing next to JI if he is healthy.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !

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