Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 2.0

[VFX]

A reminder...

Here is the Magic's salary situation right now and heading into this summer.

Fully Guaranteed Contracts (7): Banchero, Carter, Anthony, Franz, Suggs, Black, Howard
Total: $66M

Team Options/Fully Non-Guaranteed Contracts (4): Isaac, Ingles, Moritz, Houstan
Total: $38.4M

Free Agents (4): Fultz, Harris, Okeke, Bitadze

So again, even if the Magic retain all four of the team option/non-guaranteed deals, they're still only a little over $104M in committed salary.

The salary cap is projected $141M and the salary floor is projected $127M. So the Magic will have to spend at least $23M on SOMETHING just to hit the floor and could spend up to $37M to hit the cap. Both of these numbers would also go up significantly if any of Isaac/Ingles/Moritz are not retained.

Thank you for this breakdown. Really helpful and insightful. I'm sure your posts always take a bit of extra time to construct, but they are appreciated.

It's a foregone conclusion that all of those team options will be picked up, for the salary floor if nothing else but also because each of those players help the team in different ways (Isaac with contract matching and defense, Ingles with leadership, Mo with 2nd unit contributions and brother's relationship, Houstan with 3&D development).

Beyond retaining them, I could see an overpay for Bitadze to stay for 2 years with a team option on the second year. We need to spend money and he is young, provides Carter insurance, and plays well with our stars (unless he gets grumpy at the end of the year due to not playing...which history shows is a possibility with him).

Harris, Fultz, and Okeke are simply not good enough on this particular team and upgrades are absolutely needed at their spots. If any of them are resigned, as someone else said, it does tip the front office's hand that they are puttering around another year and prioritizing locker room culture over current winning (unless one of them surprisingly goes berserk in the playoffs). I personally don't think the plan is for them to be retained, but Harris or Fultz may be the last option if they strike out in free agency entirely. Fultz especially has regressed this year to a level that a blind man could see.

Getting to the salary floor is probably going to be easier than expected by resigning Goga and adding a few players on a front-loaded 2 year contract with a 2nd year option (this front office's favorite thing). I could see that money being spent towards a backup shooting guard and short term veteran starter at PG if AB isn't ready. That is totally not the swing the fans want to see, but is the likeliest option.

Things get SUPER interesting during the mid point of next year and especially AFTER next year. Isaac's contract will be off the books at season's end, freeing up a ton of money. Franz and Suggs will likely be extended. Carter's deal suddenly becomes an expiring. Paolo's gigantic deal will be business priority number one. And perhaps most importantly the team will literally HAVE to prove to both Paolo and the world that they are serious about fielding a competitive team or risk losing their best young prospect since TMac. For all of Weltman's conservative ways, the clock starts ticking extremely loudly at the start of next season for him to make some big decisions with current and future talent to make this team better.

This timeline is what I keep coming back to when I hit my head against the wall and ask why the Magic aren't being aggressive now. Next year is the year to focus on reupping Franz and Suggs, and by preserving the roster/cap flexibility beyond that you give Paolo even more of a reason to resign long term. He knows he will be handsomely rewarded AND has supreme flexibility to recruit others to play with him. That will be the all-in time fans have been hoping for where the team goes shopping. At least I THINK that's the plan. Obviously if an offer that's too good to refuse comes up it will alter things.

When estimating whether or not Weltman will make a real move to upgrade the roster, always go with the obvious answer of "No".

If he doesn't need to do anything he wont.

[JoshuaPotter]

When estimating whether or not Weltman will make a real move to upgrade the roster, always go with the obvious answer of "No".

If he doesn't need to do anything he wont.

To me, that is the thing. We have 4 picks coming this year. 2 of those I am sure will be cash considerations. 2 more, no idea. Yet that is still 2 newbs coming into a team that is desperate for a veteran with 15-20 mpg left in the tank.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

When estimating whether or not Weltman will make a real move to upgrade the roster, always go with the obvious answer of "No".

If he doesn't need to do anything he wont.

To me, that is the thing. We have 4 picks coming this year. 2 of those I am sure will be cash considerations. 2 more, no idea. Yet that is still 2 newbs coming into a team that is desperate for a veteran with 15-20 mpg left in the tank.

we have 2 this year 2024 and 4 in 2025 per below breakdown.

Incoming Draft Picks
2024 1 - Own
2024 2 - Own


2025 1 - DEN Protected 1-5
2025 1 - Own
2025 2 - BOS or MEM No protections
2025 2 - Own

https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Magic/22/draft-picks

[VFX]

I will repeat what I've said 10-15 times over the last six months...

If they don't make a "buying" trade this week, that's fine, but it ultimately is going to set up a situation where they will literally not have a choice but to spend money this summer.

They're gonna be like 25M below the salary floor (and anywhere from 35M to 60M below the salary cap depending on what they do with their team options) and there are actual penalties for not hitting it now that didn't exist before.

So where is that spending going to come from?

Are they going to retain Fultz on a 1+1 and run it back with basically the exact same group?

If they do this I’m not sure how much Magic basketball I will watch. It would mean they are not a serious organization.

They know what the weaknesses to this team are currently. Resigning Fultz and banking entirely on Black's development is negligence of the highest order.

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way. As they have said... they are trying to win... but their focus is not short-term....but long term.

So unless a homerun trade becomes available... I would NOT be surprised if Knightro is correct!!

No?

Because they have already resigned Cole and Fultz jams up the rotations already. Black hasnt seen the floor since Fultz has returned. Do you think Fultz just accepts getting reserve minutes as Black is worked into the rotation? The answer is no. There is no contract small enough to justify that potential rotation headache because you have a soft spot for flawed players.

All of the guards they listed as being trade targets can play off-guard as well, which is something Fultz simply cant and will never do whatsoever.

If the objective is to win more games, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot the basketball.

If the objective is the develop Black, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot from either guard spot and take him under his wing.

Short term and long term Fultz is gone. He should have been moved exactly one year ago today and Weltman sat on his hands.

[Skybox]

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way.

That's quite a theory...someone was applauding Fultz' "ability to defer" last year...was that you?

You think Mose told him "don't pass, don't shoot, just give it to the Italian" (Will Ferrell movie reference.anyone?)

Maybe that's why Jett got sent down. He refused to accept giving the ball to Franz and Paolo every time and insisted on actually taking and making shots and thereby hurting feelings.

[yoyojw17]

If they do this I’m not sure how much Magic basketball I will watch. It would mean they are not a serious organization.

They know what the weaknesses to this team are currently. Resigning Fultz and banking entirely on Black's development is negligence of the highest order.

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way. As they have said... they are trying to win... but their focus is not short-term....but long term.

So unless a homerun trade becomes available... I would NOT be surprised if Knightro is correct!!

No?

Because they have already resigned Cole and Fultz jams up the rotations already. Black hasnt seen the floor since Fultz has returned. Do you think Fultz just accepts getting reserve minutes as Black is worked into the rotation? The answer is no. There is no contract small enough to justify that potential rotation headache because you have a soft spot for flawed players.

All of the guards they listed as being trade targets can play off-guard as well, which is something Fultz simply cant and will never do whatsoever.

If the objective is to win more games, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot the basketball.

If the objective is the develop Black, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot from either guard spot and take him under his wing.

Short term and long term Fultz is gone. He should have been moved exactly one year ago today and Weltman sat on his hands.

Whelp... we will see. as i said before... if there are players that they have identified as worthy... changes will be made... but... just saying in reality... the notion expressed is a possibility cuz this front office is not as linear as other FOs. So just saying.

[CocoaFan]

Who would do J. Isaac + A. Black -> A. Simons? You have to give to get

Nah.

Fan base needs to give up on all these shooters who play bad defense with Simon being chief among them. Magic aren’t trading for them. They have said and showed they want a length and defense versatility is number 1. All the shooters they have gotten have length Jett and Houston. Even Harris was a good defender and a shooter second.

Howard has a +3 wingspan and Houstan has a +4 and neither can guard a chair. Simons has a +6 wingspan and is an elite shooter. At some point we need a guard we can count on to be a reliable scorer. I think Simons could fill that role.

[Knightro]

Things get SUPER interesting during the mid point of next year and especially AFTER next year. Isaac's contract will be off the books at season's end, freeing up a ton of money. Franz and Suggs will likely be extended. Carter's deal suddenly becomes an expiring. Paolo's gigantic deal will be business priority number one. And perhaps most importantly the team will literally HAVE to prove to both Paolo and the world that they are serious about fielding a competitive team or risk losing their best young prospect since TMac. For all of Weltman's conservative ways, the clock starts ticking extremely loudly at the start of next season for him to make some big decisions with current and future talent to make this team better.

This timeline is what I keep coming back to when I hit my head against the wall and ask why the Magic aren't being aggressive now. Next year is the year to focus on reupping Franz and Suggs, and by preserving the roster/cap flexibility beyond that you give Paolo even more of a reason to resign long term. He knows he will be handsomely rewarded AND has supreme flexibility to recruit others to play with him. That will be the all-in time fans have been hoping for where the team goes shopping. At least I THINK that's the plan. Obviously if an offer that's too good to refuse comes up it will alter things.

Good post.

My concern is that the cap flexibility that currently exists is ultimately finite.

The whole strategy, in theory, needs to be "cash in non-essential pieces and draft picks for win-now pieces, then use bird rights to exceed the salary cap to retain your own players" - which they will not be able to do if they simply wait too long and have the players they want to retain see their salaries spike to the point where it eats up all the cap space and they're unable to pursue those win-now pieces.

Franz and Suggs are both extension eligible *this* summer with contracts that would kick in ahead of the 25-26 season.

Franz is gonna go from 7M to 35M. Suggs is gonna go from 8M to 20M, Cole's about to jump from 5M to 13M.

Another year after that Paolo's going from 15M to 38M or more if he makes an All-NBA team.

Let's say they do nothing at this year's deadline and nothing but 1+1 deals this summer.

Here's what they're looking at heading into the summer of 2025.

Paolo 15.3M
Carter 10.8M
Suggs 20M
Black 8M
Cole 13M
Franz 35M
Jett 5.5M
2024 1st: 5M
Houstan 2M
2025 1st: 4M

That's almost 120M right there on 10 guys. You'd have to bring on 5 more guys to fill the roster and those aren't gonna be minimum salary guys. You'll have Isaac and Moritz as free agents who you may want to resign and probably aren't taking 1+1s at that point.

You'll have the 1+1 guys you signed in the summer of 2024 to decide on too.

You might be close capped out as is and you have to agree to a max/supermax contract extension for Paolo that summer (which would kick in the following year).

There's just not THAT many opportunities to cash in chips for win-now pieces and to punt on the two right in front of you (2024 deadline, 2024 summer) seems like a wild move to me.

[thelead]

t minus 2 days and a little over an hour. It’s awfully quiet across the league.

[CocoaFan]

2017- no starting level PG
2018- no starting level PG
2019- no starting level PG
2020- no starting level PG
2021- no starting level PG
2022- no starting level PG
2023- no starting level PG
2024- no starting level PG


Some things never change with Weltman.

Continuity of core makes sense, if you won championship.
Magic have like two players that should be excluded from trade talks. Others are all tradable.

jesus man, has it really been that long with weltman? the only real big splash he's responsible for is blowing the team up

Biggest FA additions to this date:
Al Faruq Aminu
Joe Ingles ( probably retired after this year)

Has made 3 trades in 7 years that weren't about 2nd round picks. The one buyer trade for Fultz, and the 2 seller trades with Vucevic and Aaron Gordon. We've got to be due for another, right?

[Knightro]

Has made 3 trades in 7 years that weren't about 2nd round picks. The one buyer trade for Fultz, and the 2 seller trades with Vucevic and Aaron Gordon. We've got to be due for another, right?

I'm hard pressed to call the Fultz trade a true "buying" trade considering Fultz didn't play for the Magic at all in the season they acquired him.

More like acquiring a distressed asset to rehab for the future.

[yoyojw17]

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way.

That's quite a theory...someone was applauding Fultz' "ability to defer" last year...was that you?

You think Mose told him "don't pass, don't shoot, just give it to the Italian" (Will Ferrell movie reference.anyone?)

Maybe that's why Jett got sent down. He refused to accept giving the ball to Franz and Paolo every time and insisted on actually taking and making shots and thereby hurting feelings.

Wait... so... you're saying that... in all of those games that markelle wasn't doing much in the first couple quarters... and paolo and franz are having a crappy night.... and markelle takes over the offense... don't you think that's considered deferring out of necessity? And as stated by the Coach and others... Markelle is about the team... and not about himself. Not everyone is able to fit that in. He's playing like a vet that's still only 26. i'm just saying that he knows his role in the success of the team and what they want of him. so... unless it's an improvement in their eyes... or they believe in AB's potential ... we might not see any hasty moves that could just end up being lateral at best.

[BadMofoPimp]

If they do this I’m not sure how much Magic basketball I will watch. It would mean they are not a serious organization.

They know what the weaknesses to this team are currently. Resigning Fultz and banking entirely on Black's development is negligence of the highest order.

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way. As they have said... they are trying to win... but their focus is not short-term....but long term.

So unless a homerun trade becomes available... I would NOT be surprised if Knightro is correct!!

No?

Because they have already resigned Cole and Fultz jams up the rotations already. Black hasnt seen the floor since Fultz has returned. Do you think Fultz just accepts getting reserve minutes as Black is worked into the rotation? The answer is no. There is no contract small enough to justify that potential rotation headache because you have a soft spot for flawed players.

All of the guards they listed as being trade targets can play off-guard as well, which is something Fultz simply cant and will never do whatsoever.

If the objective is to win more games, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot the basketball.

If the objective is the develop Black, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot from either guard spot and take him under his wing.

Short term and long term Fultz is gone. He should have been moved exactly one year ago today and Weltman sat on his hands.

It is possible they are trying to play Fultz as much as possible to garner trade potential.

[Skybox]

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way. As they have said... they are trying to win... but their focus is not short-term....but long term.

So unless a homerun trade becomes available... I would NOT be surprised if Knightro is correct!!

No?

Because they have already resigned Cole and Fultz jams up the rotations already. Black hasnt seen the floor since Fultz has returned. Do you think Fultz just accepts getting reserve minutes as Black is worked into the rotation? The answer is no. There is no contract small enough to justify that potential rotation headache because you have a soft spot for flawed players.

All of the guards they listed as being trade targets can play off-guard as well, which is something Fultz simply cant and will never do whatsoever.

If the objective is to win more games, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot the basketball.

If the objective is the develop Black, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot from either guard spot and take him under his wing.

Short term and long term Fultz is gone. He should have been moved exactly one year ago today and Weltman sat on his hands.

It is possible they are trying to play Fultz as much as possible to garner trade potential.

For all of my Fultz-bashing, I could see him really contributing to another team...with a different offensive balance or maybe in a lesser energy role that it'd be tough to accept in ORL...given his contract status, it could be low risk and, outside of his obvious weaknesses...I think you could trust his ballhandling and pacing in a big game.

[CocoaFan]

Has made 3 trades in 7 years that weren't about 2nd round picks. The one buyer trade for Fultz, and the 2 seller trades with Vucevic and Aaron Gordon. We've got to be due for another, right?

I'm hard pressed to call the Fultz trade a true "buying" trade considering Fultz didn't play for the Magic at all in the season they acquired him.

More like acquiring a distressed asset to rehab for the future.

Down to 2 real trades in 7 years and those were forced upon them. They've got to do better.

[yoyojw17]

Why? Cuz you say so? lol

Black has shown to do well in his rookie year. We don't know about his usage... restrictions.... etc. Similar to Fultz.... he has stained in the predestined lane because this is Paolo and Franz's growth evaluation. the ones with the 30% and 26% usage rates. There isn't much room for anyone else at this point. haha. Now.... in my opinion these numbers will be balanced out more and more as time goes by and we will see AB shine more and more. IF they have confidence in his production and see him as their guard of the future.... why put an expensive door in the way. As they have said... they are trying to win... but their focus is not short-term....but long term.

So unless a homerun trade becomes available... I would NOT be surprised if Knightro is correct!!

No?

Because they have already resigned Cole and Fultz jams up the rotations already. Black hasnt seen the floor since Fultz has returned. Do you think Fultz just accepts getting reserve minutes as Black is worked into the rotation? The answer is no. There is no contract small enough to justify that potential rotation headache because you have a soft spot for flawed players.

All of the guards they listed as being trade targets can play off-guard as well, which is something Fultz simply cant and will never do whatsoever.

If the objective is to win more games, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot the basketball.

If the objective is the develop Black, then you move Fultz for a point guard that can shoot from either guard spot and take him under his wing.

Short term and long term Fultz is gone. He should have been moved exactly one year ago today and Weltman sat on his hands.

It is possible they are trying to play Fultz as much as possible to garner trade potential.

If i was a team that needed a player off the bench or in the starting lineup that can run and manage a team... i would have him on my list. I would love to see him on the spurs. And that's another reason i wouldn't mind keeping him here... maybe not as a starter... but to lead the bench JIngles ain't gonna be here much longer. and we certainly saw what the bench looked like when he went down. these are all stones that have to be kicked. And i hope the decision they make is the right one.

[CocoaFan]

Things get SUPER interesting during the mid point of next year and especially AFTER next year. Isaac's contract will be off the books at season's end, freeing up a ton of money. Franz and Suggs will likely be extended. Carter's deal suddenly becomes an expiring. Paolo's gigantic deal will be business priority number one. And perhaps most importantly the team will literally HAVE to prove to both Paolo and the world that they are serious about fielding a competitive team or risk losing their best young prospect since TMac. For all of Weltman's conservative ways, the clock starts ticking extremely loudly at the start of next season for him to make some big decisions with current and future talent to make this team better.

This timeline is what I keep coming back to when I hit my head against the wall and ask why the Magic aren't being aggressive now. Next year is the year to focus on reupping Franz and Suggs, and by preserving the roster/cap flexibility beyond that you give Paolo even more of a reason to resign long term. He knows he will be handsomely rewarded AND has supreme flexibility to recruit others to play with him. That will be the all-in time fans have been hoping for where the team goes shopping. At least I THINK that's the plan. Obviously if an offer that's too good to refuse comes up it will alter things.

Good post.

My concern is that the cap flexibility that currently exists is ultimately finite.

The whole strategy, in theory, needs to be "cash in non-essential pieces and draft picks for win-now pieces, then use bird rights to exceed the salary cap to retain your own players" - which they will not be able to do if they simply wait too long and have the players they want to retain see their salaries spike to the point where it eats up all the cap space and they're unable to pursue those win-now pieces.

Franz and Suggs are both extension eligible *this* summer with contracts that would kick in ahead of the 25-26 season.

Franz is gonna go from 7M to 35M. Suggs is gonna go from 8M to 20M, Cole's about to jump from 5M to 13M.

Another year after that Paolo's going from 15M to 38M or more if he makes an All-NBA team.

Let's say they do nothing at this year's deadline and nothing but 1+1 deals this summer.

Here's what they're looking at heading into the summer of 2025.

Paolo 15.3M
Carter 10.8M
Suggs 20M
Black 8M
Cole 13M
Franz 35M
Jett 5.5M
2024 1st: 5M
Houstan 2M
2025 1st: 4M

That's almost 120M right there on 10 guys. You'd have to bring on 5 more guys to fill the roster and those aren't gonna be minimum salary guys. You'll have Isaac and Moritz as free agents who you may want to resign and probably aren't taking 1+1s at that point.

You'll have the 1+1 guys you signed in the summer of 2024 to decide on too.

You might be close capped out as is and you have to agree to a max/supermax contract extension for Paolo that summer (which would kick in the following year).

There's just not THAT many opportunities to cash in chips for win-now pieces and to punt on the two right in front of you (2024 deadline, 2024 summer) seems like a wild move to me.

Excellent post. Really crystalizes the fact the Magic have 1 year from now to take advantage of the cap space they've been saving. Clock is ticking.

[jezzerinho]

I'd be very happy if we snagged any of the following (I'm picking from teams who are likely to deal with us and ignoring players/teams who arent on the market):

Sexton (Utah)
Dunn (Utah)
Monk (Sac)
Joe (OKC)
Caruso (Chi)
Jones (Wash)
Jones (NOP)
Moody (GSW)
Simons (Port)
Walker (Brk)
White (Chi)

Obviously different prices for different players, but that's the pool I'd be swimming in.

[Skin]

If Kemba Walker, Bruce Brown, and SGA had a baby

It's a really legit question...

Honestly, what do you think AB is in a year or three?

I don't think he's ever a real scoring threat. Potentially elite defender. Makes open threes if you dare him. Decent facilitator but more hockey assists than direct offensive creation (even that's a maybe)...Honestly, if I'm not being a total homer, it's hard to really call him more than a Matisse Thybulle who can bring the ball up...I just don't see how that will ever fit in a starting lineup with Suggs. I do expect more offense from Suggs, but I don't see him getting past 15-17 ppg. If one of them is off the bench, you've got constant defensive intensity - but accept that one comes off the bench or is moved, imo.

Not knocking. Both are valuable roles...but be realistic about a real starting PG role in this NBA.

Lonzo Ball is a comp, a more athletic, less scoring oriented Cade is another comp. He's going to be a stud though, right there as a prospect with Suggs.

Lonzo is not a fair comparison for AB because first and foremost, Lonzo is a playmaker who put up double digit assists with consistency. AB just doesn't have that vision and players just don't develop that once they enter the league.

I don't see Cade either. I'm really starting to think you're not being fair to yourself in your expectations of what he can become.

[eyriq]

It's a really legit question...

Honestly, what do you think AB is in a year or three?

I don't think he's ever a real scoring threat. Potentially elite defender. Makes open threes if you dare him. Decent facilitator but more hockey assists than direct offensive creation (even that's a maybe)...Honestly, if I'm not being a total homer, it's hard to really call him more than a Matisse Thybulle who can bring the ball up...I just don't see how that will ever fit in a starting lineup with Suggs. I do expect more offense from Suggs, but I don't see him getting past 15-17 ppg. If one of them is off the bench, you've got constant defensive intensity - but accept that one comes off the bench or is moved, imo.

Not knocking. Both are valuable roles...but be realistic about a real starting PG role in this NBA.

Lonzo Ball is a comp, a more athletic, less scoring oriented Cade is another comp. He's going to be a stud though, right there as a prospect with Suggs.

Lonzo is not a fair comparison for AB because first and foremost, Lonzo is a playmaker who put up double digit assists with consistency. AB just doesn't have that vision and players just don't develop that once they enter the league.

I don't see Cade either. I'm really starting to think you're not being fair to yourself in your expectations of what he can become.

I grabbed the Cade comp from the draft board, my favorite poster over there mentioned it back during the draft. Lonzo is from the internet, just a common mention. Brown, Kemba, and SGA come up from personal analysis of their college production, and are the ones that I'll officially claim as opinions.

My conclusion at the time of the draft was that he was a top 6 prospect with a high ceiling as a lockdown defender, playmaker, and scorer. My opinion hasn't changed after watching him this year, in fact he's better than I thought he'd be.

I'm happy to be in the minority on him, I feel good about thinking he's got all-star potential, but more importantly he's just going to contribute to winning at an extremely high rate.