Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[OrlandoMagic]

I’ll take take that bet any day as well

[JBSouthpaw]

So with all the complaining about Vucevic, I didn’t see anyone mention his isolation defense against Simmons.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah.. sorry, most of us were to busy with watching him get absolutely annihilated by Embiid the other 99% of the time.

Nik 20 pts 2asts 5rbs 2 blks 52%fg 2-2 ft
Embiid: 21pts 2asts 7rbs 0 blks 61%fg 2-3 ft

I guess Nik annialated Embiid 99% of the time.

But not really right? Through the cloud of bull and hyperbole they seem to have cancelled eachother out rather than anyone annihalating the other.
Also Emiid is a top 5 player in the NBA and not many can stop him. So If youre going to extend that consideration then it needs to apply to everyone not just the players you like.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

And don't forget NONE of those points came against Bamba

[NickAnderson]

Man, the vuc hate is unreal sometimes. He’s more hated than Dwight. That’s just sad

[NickAnderson]

Lets be real, Vuc not playing in the NBA next year is a possibility.

like to place a bet on this?

Yeah. I’d like to place a bet as well

[PennytoShaq]

Clifford sure likes to talk about playing Bamba and Vuc together a lot for the result to equate to 5 mins of game time.

So you don’t buy that Clifford wants Vuc on the floor for his “reliable” offense and is more so talking about the possibility of this lineup for Bamba’s “experience on the perimeter” while AG and Isaac are on the roster? To each his own. An entire hornets fan base tells us he plays people out of position, he talks about this possibility twice, and you still are shrugging it off. Ok.

I prefer to see what actually happens instead of whining about something that hasn’t happened at all yet. The first game of the preseason Cliffords rotations looked fine.

Isaacis sitting next game so Vuc and Bamba will probably play together some. You can get upset, and Lead can complain that Isaac is hurt. I am sure it will be fun stuff to read.

See. You say people are “whining” and “complaining” and all I see is people raising legitimate questions on a message board. TheLead raises some interesting points and we have Clifford quoted saying he’s going to play a rookie out of position next to Vuc, all while employing the same tired tatic at his last gig (pissing off their fans).

Sure he might not go 100% through with it and Isaac might be fine, but you can drop the whole “this topic is a non issue” thing because obviously people are talking about it. I don’t know why people bringing up legitimate concerns bothers you.

Because they are not legitimate concerns. If it was regular season and isaac is hurt and missing games, you get a bit concerned. But you can also use common sense and realize that when he was drafted it was made clear that his body was still growing and he was going to be undersized for a couple of years, which means that stuff like this can happen. A much more legit concern for me was AGs foot injury since those can be real bad and he ended up being fine.

Worrying about Bamba playing more minutes with a small size at pf is not a legit concern. Especially since most of us are hoping we get one more lottery pick anyway. Your counter argument is player development, but A- you have no idea what that actually entails and B - before we accuse the new staff of not knowing either, I like to actually see what they can do before nosediving into complain mode.

[PennytoShaq]

I don't know... I think i'd prefer the guy that is 7'0" with a 7'10" wingspan anchoring the defense instead of defending 4's on the perimeter. If it cuts into Vuc's minutes... too bad for him. But that's just me. I wonder how many minutes Gobert has seen at the 4 in his career.

Thats a great point. Gobert got exposed for not being able to defend on the perimeter last playoffs and he literally can not shoot 3 pointers at all (0 attempts his entire career). Sounds like a guy who played in the paint his whole career and was not developed to do more than that.

That’s not what Bamba is, which is why he needs to continue to knock down 3s and defend on the periemeter. The concept of “anchoring the paint” is outdated.

[pepe1991]

Every single big will be exposed if you put Cp3 and Harden on them.
Bamba, or any other player ever included.

It's impossible task to do if you are 7'0. Paul makes 5 steps ,stops fakes movment and takes off in another direction while your big is like



That's key reasons why big lineups never lived up. Small players simply have that much more explosivness in first step to make difference and overall they are simply faster ( and historicly better shooters )

[PennytoShaq]

Every single big will be exposed if you put Cp3 and Harden on them.
Bamba, or any other player ever included.

It's impossible task to do if you are 7'0. Paul makes 5 steps ,stops fakes movment and takes off in another direction while your big is like



That's key reasons why big lineups never lived up. Small players simply have that much more explosivness in first step to make difference and overall they are simply faster (and historicly better shooters )

Not really the point here. The point is that teams are developing their young big guys to switch out and also shoot 3s now. A bad mismatch can happen, but not as often if you are experienced at doing it and have the skill set - which Bamba does.

Not even guards can defend Paul or Harden well. Those guys are elite at breaking people off the dribble. I believe the plan is that instead of just drawing Bamba on a switch and trying to drive past him, a team like the Rockets would still need to deal with ISaac and AG from the weak side if they take it to the rim. It’s all about making it harder. There is no foolproof way to stop those guys, you just want to make it harder. Problem with Gobert is he is the “Rim protector”. You pull him out and it’s a wide open lane.

Also, we are not going to run a big lineup as our main lineup. If we did, it should be great news for everyone here who wants to tank anyways. I don’t expect Vuc and Bamba to be anything but a way to get Bamba more minutes on the floor, while saving his body from the banging for a few minutes a game. It’s not a winning strategy, I doubt anyone would argue that.

[Blue_and_Whte]

[Howard Mass]

Since this is a Speculation Thread, I'm wondering how the stream is going to be on Fox Sports Go Tonight.

[NickAnderson]

Every single big will be exposed if you put Cp3 and Harden on them.
Bamba, or any other player ever included.

It's impossible task to do if you are 7'0. Paul makes 5 steps ,stops fakes movment and takes off in another direction while your big is like



That's key reasons why big lineups never lived up. Small players simply have that much more explosivness in first step to make difference and overall they are simply faster ( and historicly better shooters )

Watch on YouTube

I like this one

[Blue_and_Whte]

Yeah.. sorry, most of us were to busy with watching him get absolutely annihilated by Embiid the other 99% of the time.

Nik 20 pts 2asts 5rbs 2 blks 52%fg 2-2 ft
Embiid: 21pts 2asts 7rbs 0 blks 61%fg 2-3 ft

I guess Nik annialated Embiid 99% of the time.

But not really right? Through the cloud of bull and hyperbole they seem to have cancelled eachother out rather than anyone annihalating the other.
Also Emiid is a top 5 player in the NBA and not many can stop him. So If youre going to extend that consideration then it needs to apply to everyone not just the players you like.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

And don't forget NONE of those points came against Bamba

Well he gets a pass right, but two three years down the road, he still wont be able to stop Joel. Its just asinine and petty to pretend that Nik was getting annihilated 99% of the time while ignoring the fact that he was carrying us by scoring on and defending a top 5 player. They'd be fine with these very same numbers if it were anyone else. When you see outlandish comments like these you know its not about basketball anymore.

[PrimeThyme]

So with all the complaining about Vucevic, I didn’t see anyone mention his isolation defense against Simmons.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah.. sorry, most of us were to busy with watching him get absolutely annihilated by Embiid the other 99% of the time.

Nik 20 pts 2asts 5rbs 2 blks 52%fg 2-2 ft
Embiid: 21pts 2asts 7rbs 0 blks 61%fg 2-3 ft

I guess Nik annialated Embiid 99% of the time.

But not really right? Through the cloud of bull and hyperbole they seem to have cancelled eachother out rather than anyone annihalating the other.
Also Emiid is a top 5 player in the NBA and not many can stop him. So If youre going to extend that consideration then it needs to apply to everyone not just the players you like.



Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

First off, that play that was posted happened in the first quarter where Vuc got annihilated in. Embiid went 5/5 on Vuc in that quarter and had his team up 8 points while Vuc went 2/5 acting as a complete turnstile on defense and playing buddy ball with Evan. Only 4 of Embiids points came on Bamba (Bamba actually forced a couple of turnovers while guarding him) and the rest were scored while Vuc was out there.

You can keep posting Vuc's box scores like all of his defenders here like to do but its been pointed out many times how his numbers have no real impact. He is a box score stuffer.

[rcklsscognition]

Definitely gotta get rid of all the players on the team that stuff the box score. I'm surprised it's taken so long, but we've made steady progress as the years go by.

[fendilim]

I prefer to see what actually happens instead of whining about something that hasn’t happened at all yet. The first game of the preseason Cliffords rotations looked fine.

Isaacis sitting next game so Vuc and Bamba will probably play together some. You can get upset, and Lead can complain that Isaac is hurt. I am sure it will be fun stuff to read.

See. You say people are “whining” and “complaining” and all I see is people raising legitimate questions on a message board. TheLead raises some interesting points and we have Clifford quoted saying he’s going to play a rookie out of position next to Vuc, all while employing the same tired tatic at his last gig (pissing off their fans).

Sure he might not go 100% through with it and Isaac might be fine, but you can drop the whole “this topic is a non issue” thing because obviously people are talking about it. I don’t know why people bringing up legitimate concerns bothers you.

Because they are not legitimate concerns. If it was regular season and isaac is hurt and missing games, you get a bit concerned. But you can also use common sense and realize that when he was drafted it was made clear that his body was still growing and he was going to be undersized for a couple of years, which means that stuff like this can happen. A much more legit concern for me was AGs foot injury since those can be real bad and he ended up being fine.

Worrying about Bamba playing more minutes with a small size at pf is not a legit concern. Especially since most of us are hoping we get one more lottery pick anyway. Your counter argument is player development, but A- you have no idea what that actually entails and B - before we accuse the new staff of not knowing either, I like to actually see what they can do before nosediving into complain mode.

Wait till we sit out Gordon, the prized possession, for nothing but to rest him.

Then everyone will rejoice when Vuc sits out preseason for nothing. Only to see Vuc eat Bamba's minutes again on the first game of the regular season. LOL.

Preseason is where DNP-Rest when happens. Relax guys. lol

[VFX]

See. You say people are “whining” and “complaining” and all I see is people raising legitimate questions on a message board. TheLead raises some interesting points and we have Clifford quoted saying he’s going to play a rookie out of position next to Vuc, all while employing the same tired tatic at his last gig (pissing off their fans).

Sure he might not go 100% through with it and Isaac might be fine, but you can drop the whole “this topic is a non issue” thing because obviously people are talking about it. I don’t know why people bringing up legitimate concerns bothers you.

Because they are not legitimate concerns. If it was regular season and isaac is hurt and missing games, you get a bit concerned. But you can also use common sense and realize that when he was drafted it was made clear that his body was still growing and he was going to be undersized for a couple of years, which means that stuff like this can happen. A much more legit concern for me was AGs foot injury since those can be real bad and he ended up being fine.

Worrying about Bamba playing more minutes with a small size at pf is not a legit concern. Especially since most of us are hoping we get one more lottery pick anyway. Your counter argument is player development, but A- you have no idea what that actually entails and B - before we accuse the new staff of not knowing either, I like to actually see what they can do before nosediving into complain mode.

Wait till we sit out Gordon, the prized possession, for nothing but to rest him.

Then everyone will rejoice when Vuc sits out preseason for nothing. Only to see Vuc eat Bamba's minutes again on the first game of the regular season. LOL.

Preseason is where DNP-Rest when happens. Relax guys. lol

The point really isn’t about preseason. It has to do with the fact that Clifford will feel compelled to leave Vuc on the floor even if that means shifting Bamba around to make it happen. Vuc playing minutes over Bamba is one thing, but that’s another situation. He literally said it himself. Maybe he’s telling the media one thing and won’t actually do it, but he did in fact say it. It was confirmed he would do this by Hornets fans.

[MagicStarwipe]

I don't know... I think i'd prefer the guy that is 7'0" with a 7'10" wingspan anchoring the defense instead of defending 4's on the perimeter. If it cuts into Vuc's minutes... too bad for him. But that's just me. I wonder how many minutes Gobert has seen at the 4 in his career.

Thats a great point. Gobert got exposed for not being able to defend on the perimeter last playoffs and he literally can not shoot 3 pointers at all (0 attempts his entire career). Sounds like a guy who played in the paint his whole career and was not developed to do more than that.

That’s not what Bamba is, which is why he needs to continue to knock down 3s and defend on the periemeter. The concept of “anchoring the paint” is outdated.

He'll get plenty of opportunities to switch on to smaller players at the 5. Bamba and Gobert are not the same player. If Bamba has better foot speed, he'll be able to keep up better on switches. Has nothing to do with playing the 4. The reason I bring up Gobert is he is a pure 5 and so is Bamba. The difference is we do things ass backwards here and the Jazz do not. Bamba already takes 3's at the 5. He doesn't need to play the 4 to do that. It really does no benefit to his development to play him at the 4.

[PennytoShaq]

Because they are not legitimate concerns. If it was regular season and isaac is hurt and missing games, you get a bit concerned. But you can also use common sense and realize that when he was drafted it was made clear that his body was still growing and he was going to be undersized for a couple of years, which means that stuff like this can happen. A much more legit concern for me was AGs foot injury since those can be real bad and he ended up being fine.

Worrying about Bamba playing more minutes with a small size at pf is not a legit concern. Especially since most of us are hoping we get one more lottery pick anyway. Your counter argument is player development, but A- you have no idea what that actually entails and B - before we accuse the new staff of not knowing either, I like to actually see what they can do before nosediving into complain mode.

Wait till we sit out Gordon, the prized possession, for nothing but to rest him.

Then everyone will rejoice when Vuc sits out preseason for nothing. Only to see Vuc eat Bamba's minutes again on the first game of the regular season. LOL.

Preseason is where DNP-Rest when happens. Relax guys. lol

The point really isn’t about preseason. It has to do with the fact that Clifford will feel compelled to leave Vuc on the floor even if that means shifting Bamba around to make it happen. Vuc playing minutes over Bamba is one thing, but that’s another situation. He literally said it himself. Maybe he’s telling the media one thing and won’t actually do it, but he did in fact say it. It was confirmed he would do this by Hornets fans.

As long as we have Vuc, he is going to play and get close to 30 mins a game. So would you rather Bamba only gets the minutes Vuc doesn’t play or also gets more now and then next to Vuc?

Accepting that Vuc is here for another season is unfortunately part of the process right now. But 3 months ago folks (maybe you as well)were saying Clifford doesn’t play rookies. Now he is clearly stating that he will and figuring out more ways to get Bamba minutes. I’m just trying to figure out how this is that awful a situation. Especially in a tanking season.

[PennytoShaq]

I don't know... I think i'd prefer the guy that is 7'0" with a 7'10" wingspan anchoring the defense instead of defending 4's on the perimeter. If it cuts into Vuc's minutes... too bad for him. But that's just me. I wonder how many minutes Gobert has seen at the 4 in his career.

Thats a great point. Gobert got exposed for not being able to defend on the perimeter last playoffs and he literally can not shoot 3 pointers at all (0 attempts his entire career). Sounds like a guy who played in the paint his whole career and was not developed to do more than that.

That’s not what Bamba is, which is why he needs to continue to knock down 3s and defend on the periemeter. The concept of “anchoring the paint” is outdated.

He'll get plenty of opportunities to switch on to smaller players at the 5. Bamba and Gobert are not the same player. If Bamba has better foot speed, he'll be able to keep up better on switches. Has nothing to do with playing the 4. The reason I bring up Gobert is he is a pure 5 and so is Bamba. The difference is we do things ass backwards here and the Jazz do not. Bamba already takes 3's at the 5. He doesn't need to play the 4 to do that. It really does no benefit to his development to play him at the 4.

Bamba and Gobert are not the same player. Correct, that was my entire point.

It absolutely does benefit him to come out and defend 4s sometimes instead of sitting on the bench and watching the game. Plus, as I have said many times before - plenty of teams are doing this now. Playing a rookie big out of position to get them on the floor and get them used to playing the wing is not something the Magic created on their own.

Would you rather Bamba play 18 minutes a game or 23-25 because he’s logging time at the 4? It’s a no brainer for me.

Plus I think Bamba could end up taking the starting job if Vuc doesns’t step up his effort. It is only a matter of time before Vuc is out of here. Last thing we need to do is kill any value he may have by benching him for a rookie that weighs 225 pounds. It makes no sense to do that. Talk him up, act like he is the centerpiece, let him get his 18 points on 88 shot a game..whatever it takes to get us something in return for this guy and then all of this is over.

[fendilim]

Because they are not legitimate concerns. If it was regular season and isaac is hurt and missing games, you get a bit concerned. But you can also use common sense and realize that when he was drafted it was made clear that his body was still growing and he was going to be undersized for a couple of years, which means that stuff like this can happen. A much more legit concern for me was AGs foot injury since those can be real bad and he ended up being fine.

Worrying about Bamba playing more minutes with a small size at pf is not a legit concern. Especially since most of us are hoping we get one more lottery pick anyway. Your counter argument is player development, but A- you have no idea what that actually entails and B - before we accuse the new staff of not knowing either, I like to actually see what they can do before nosediving into complain mode.

Wait till we sit out Gordon, the prized possession, for nothing but to rest him.

Then everyone will rejoice when Vuc sits out preseason for nothing. Only to see Vuc eat Bamba's minutes again on the first game of the regular season. LOL.

Preseason is where DNP-Rest when happens. Relax guys. lol

The point really isn’t about preseason. It has to do with the fact that Clifford will feel compelled to leave Vuc on the floor even if that means shifting Bamba around to make it happen. Vuc playing minutes over Bamba is one thing, but that’s another situation. He literally said it himself. Maybe he’s telling the media one thing and won’t actually do it, but he did in fact say it. It was confirmed he would do this by Hornets fans.

What's going to keep Bamba from playing a lot of minutes is himself.

Until he proves he is ready to get minutes, Vuc will likely get more minutes than him.

Not only will that be based on the numbers Bamba can produce, but also if he can endure the nightly beating he will likely get every game.