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2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Preseason Strikes Back

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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1481 » by shadrock » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:06 am

NickAnderson wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:I misread what's happening to the Magic on the Realgm board? No man, to me it was pretty obvious that the Magic are trying to build around Vuc even though he is an odd player to do that for.

If you guys truly think AG is gonna become a star you got another thing conin'. He doesn't have the skillset nor the disposition of an alphadog.

It's strange to me that you're this low on Gordon while being so high on Oladipo. Gordon is straight up better.


Gordon better than Oladipo? How???


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Jesus is this really a question? Sometimes im legit baffled by the way others see the team. Its like comparing Jamal Crawford to someone of Blake Griffin potential.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1482 » by JF5 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:52 am

shadrock wrote:
NickAnderson wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:It's strange to me that you're this low on Gordon while being so high on Oladipo. Gordon is straight up better.


Gordon better than Oladipo? How???


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Jesus is this really a question? Sometimes im legit baffled by the way others see the team. Its like comparing Jamal Crawford to someone of Blake Griffin potential.


You know if you go to the General Board and go to the Aaron Gordon topic from a few months ago, the consensus was that he'll end up being a good player/starter right?

But then again, we're in our own forum so we tend to over hype our own players.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1483 » by SOUL » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:32 am

JF5 wrote:
shadrock wrote:
NickAnderson wrote:
Gordon better than Oladipo? How???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jesus is this really a question? Sometimes im legit baffled by the way others see the team. Its like comparing Jamal Crawford to someone of Blake Griffin potential.


You know if you go to the General Board and go to the Aaron Gordon topic from a few months ago, the consensus was that he'll end up being a good player/starter right?

But then again, we're in our own forum so we tend to over hype our own players.


Sure, but citing the General Board as a bastion of insight and solid opinions isn't really an effective way to drive home any statement.

AG put up really, really good advanced stats for a 20 year old and is a higher commodity for our team, and most other teams in the league. It's hard to compare them since they have entirely different games, but let's not pretend like Oladipo was anything more than an average SG for us during his time here (and I'm not trying to put him down, he was well worth being invested in). He had some games where he played extremely above average, and others where he was very below average.

Also disagree with whoever said Gordon doesn't have an alpha mentality. The dude is dripping in confidence and I see him developing into a team captain soon. Nobody walks in the NBA and demands that kind of respect aside from legends like Jordan or Magic.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1484 » by Orlwillbeback » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:09 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:I misread what's happening to the Magic on the Realgm board? No man, to me it was pretty obvious that the Magic are trying to build around Vuc even though he is an odd player to do that for.

If you guys truly think AG is gonna become a star you got another thing conin'. He doesn't have the skillset nor the disposition of an alphadog.

It's strange to me that you're this low on Gordon while being so high on Oladipo. Gordon is straight up better.



Can you give me a good argument as to why he is? I think Gordon could have been like Draymond because of his defense and open court abilities to handle and pass at 6'9 but if we're trying to make him into a star wing scorer like Paul George it seems a bit misguided because he has never learned to shoot the ball. Watching his slow shootiing stroke is painful to me.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1485 » by basketballRob » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:33 am

Orlwillbeback wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:I misread what's happening to the Magic on the Realgm board? No man, to me it was pretty obvious that the Magic are trying to build around Vuc even though he is an odd player to do that for.

If you guys truly think AG is gonna become a star you got another thing conin'. He doesn't have the skillset nor the disposition of an alphadog.

It's strange to me that you're this low on Gordon while being so high on Oladipo. Gordon is straight up better.



Can you give me a good argument as to why he is? I think Gordon could have been like Draymond because of his defense and open court abilities to handle and pass at 6'9 but if we're trying to make him into a star wing scorer like Paul George it seems a bit misguided because he has never learned to shoot the ball. Watching his slow shootiing stroke is painful to me.


Most of the lottery picks in this years draft have hole in their games. Gordon is younger than a few of them and within months of most of them. Hopefully this year he shows some improvement.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1486 » by Orlwillbeback » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:26 am

OrlandO wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:I have lost alot of interest in the team after they traded my two favorite players on the team and everything else the FO did this summer.

Wake me up when we have competent management.

And then the season starts and you're sucked right back in...
Don't worry, you will find another favorite player to replace the void left by Channing Frye...

lol aint that the truth
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1487 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:48 pm

I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1488 » by Nemesis21 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:23 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.



:roll: It's true though. Let's see he does this season, before calling for his head.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Dire Wait 

Post#1489 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:35 pm

The Other Ankle wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
OrlandO wrote:I could be wrong, but usually players in his position don't say stuff like that this quick. Maybe if they're on a contender or they've had some time to gel with teammates with some games under their belt, but this soon on an unproven team? Interesting... hope he's being genuine!

Its still a legitimate concern that people have the right to express. Ibaka saying the right things during media day doesn't change anything for me. Until he puts pen to paper he's just a one year rental.


The possibility that should only be considered PRESUMING extreme negligence and ineptitude of management. Instead, it has generally been thrown about to PROPOSE extreme negligence and ineptitude of management by those who lean that way.

All indications have always been that Serge and Rob have a longstanding relationship that made for a high comfort level trading for him. Expressing this "concern" seems a bit peevish at best, and seems to reflect other postures much more so than the actual possibility of Serge leaving.

A MUCH more likely scenario is that Ibaka becomes a lead-by-example cornerstone of the club in his first year, cooperatively sits on his cap hold before getting paid, and helps to recruit while the Magic go after another big free agent next Summer. These are things that would help us as a team, would be consistent with management being at least reasonable at their jobs, AND are more likely to actually occur.

So as a FAN, that's what I'm expressing!
Congratulations, your whole post seems peevish because you want everyone to put on blinders and pretend the move wasn't risky least of all talk about it.

You don't know what's more likely to occur because you aren't clairvoyant and there isn't a "more likely to actually occur" scenario. The concern isn't peevish, its legitimate and it has nothing to do with other postures. It has to do with the fact that he'll reach a status we call UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT which means, there's just as much a chance of him leaving as there is of him staying.

I'm not accusing management of extreme negligence and ineptitude, matter of fact I've been one of Hennigans biggest supporters and I'm sure they performed as much due diligence prior to the trade as possible. That said, Unless they've mastered the art of mind control he could just as easily go elsewhere regardless of the dialogue he had with them prior to the trade if the right opportunity presents itself.

I like that they finally took a risk with Ibaka (and Biyombo for that matter) but I also understand that the whole thing could blow up in our face. Its naïve to believe the words of a player on the verge of free agency when he gives a canned, fan friendly answer at media day and I refuse to pretend everything is cherry blossoms and rainbows. I hope your best case scenario is actually what happens.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1490 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:37 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.



:roll: It's true though. Let's see he does this season, before calling for his head.

People have called for players heads for far less. But you're right, we have to see how it all plays out.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1491 » by Nemesis21 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:46 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.



:roll: It's true though. Let's see he does this season, before calling for his head.

People have called for players heads for far less. But you're right, we have to see how it all plays out.



Well those people are pretty dumb.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1492 » by magicman112 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:22 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.


Shawn Marion is always who I've compared his skill set to. Superb athlete and defender who can play the 3 or the 4 and is capable of knocking down 3s and getting to the basket as well.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1493 » by tiderulz » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:22 pm

SOUL wrote:
JF5 wrote:
shadrock wrote:
Jesus is this really a question? Sometimes im legit baffled by the way others see the team. Its like comparing Jamal Crawford to someone of Blake Griffin potential.


You know if you go to the General Board and go to the Aaron Gordon topic from a few months ago, the consensus was that he'll end up being a good player/starter right?

But then again, we're in our own forum so we tend to over hype our own players.


Sure, but citing the General Board as a bastion of insight and solid opinions isn't really an effective way to drive home any statement.

AG put up really, really good advanced stats for a 20 year old and is a higher commodity for our team, and most other teams in the league. It's hard to compare them since they have entirely different games, but let's not pretend like Oladipo was anything more than an average SG for us during his time here (and I'm not trying to put him down, he was well worth being invested in). He had some games where he played extremely above average, and others where he was very below average.

Also disagree with whoever said Gordon doesn't have an alpha mentality. The dude is dripping in confidence and I see him developing into a team captain soon. Nobody walks in the NBA and demands that kind of respect aside from legends like Jordan or Magic.


ehh, i disagree on that. Many people here and non-MAgic fans saw him as a top-10, top-5ish SG in the league. i dont consider that average. I believe Fournier is a much better fit and has more offensive game that flows more naturally, but Dipo was good.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1494 » by tiderulz » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:23 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.


we talking about Gordon or Payton? because they both have received that same shielding
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Dire Wait 

Post#1495 » by The Other Ankle » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:28 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
The Other Ankle wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:Its still a legitimate concern that people have the right to express. Ibaka saying the right things during media day doesn't change anything for me. Until he puts pen to paper he's just a one year rental.


The possibility that should only be considered PRESUMING extreme negligence and ineptitude of management. Instead, it has generally been thrown about to PROPOSE extreme negligence and ineptitude of management by those who lean that way.

All indications have always been that Serge and Rob have a longstanding relationship that made for a high comfort level trading for him. Expressing this "concern" seems a bit peevish at best, and seems to reflect other postures much more so than the actual possibility of Serge leaving.

A MUCH more likely scenario is that Ibaka becomes a lead-by-example cornerstone of the club in his first year, cooperatively sits on his cap hold before getting paid, and helps to recruit while the Magic go after another big free agent next Summer. These are things that would help us as a team, would be consistent with management being at least reasonable at their jobs, AND are more likely to actually occur.

So as a FAN, that's what I'm expressing!
Congratulations, your whole post seems peevish because you want everyone to put on blinders and pretend the move wasn't risky least of all talk about it.

You don't know what's more likely to occur because you aren't clairvoyant and there isn't a "more likely to actually occur" scenario. The concern isn't peevish, its legitimate and it has nothing to do with other postures. It has to do with the fact that he'll reach a status we call UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT which means, there's just as much a chance of him leaving as there is of him staying.

I'm not accusing management of extreme negligence and ineptitude, matter of fact I've been one of Hennigans biggest supporters and I'm sure they performed as much due diligence prior to the trade as possible. That said, Unless they've mastered the art of mind control he could just as easily go elsewhere regardless of the dialogue he had with them prior to the trade if the right opportunity presents itself.

I like that they finally took a risk with Ibaka (and Biyombo for that matter) but I also understand that the whole thing could blow up in our face. Its naïve to believe the words of a player on the verge of free agency when he gives a canned, fan friendly answer at media day and I refuse to pretend everything is cherry blossoms and rainbows. I hope your best case scenario is actually what happens.


I'll let the board rate the relative Peevishness however they see fit. Just seems rather Douchey to harp on the possibility that Ibaka will leave when Henny has known him personally for the longest of any named executive; was allowed to speak with him before the trade; and then made the trade with confidence. It WOULD be an unprecedented and likely fatal mistake to Rob's tenure if Ibaka walked. That in itself is the strongest indication that he will almost assuredly stay here barring some fiasco.

Serge's life story article this Summer, his basic personalty and attitude, and his demonstrative statements about the Magic put your point of view into a whiny detractor minority: "But, but... He COULD leave!" That technical possibility doesn't support your attitude whatsoever, whether you like it being pointed out or not. I'll leave it to the board to "And1" whoever they agree with on the topic as I don't intend to waste any more time on this with you. Peace out!
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1496 » by tiderulz » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:29 pm

magicman112 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.


Shawn Marion is always who I've compared his skill set to. Superb athlete and defender who can play the 3 or the 4 and is capable of knocking down 3s and getting to the basket as well.


if we get a 6'9-6'10 Marion clone, i would be very happy (that is HOF'r type of quality), though some people wont because he wont be viewed as a super star
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1497 » by fendilim » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:33 pm

tiderulz wrote:
magicman112 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I have high hopes for Gordon but I cant say for certain that he's going to be a star. I think its a joke to think he'll be as good as PG13 scoring wise, and so I'm sticking to my Shawn Marion comp. I'd love to get an above average starting PG in here. Sick of people shielding him with the potential/injury card. He better step up.


Shawn Marion is always who I've compared his skill set to. Superb athlete and defender who can play the 3 or the 4 and is capable of knocking down 3s and getting to the basket as well.


if we get a 6'9-6'10 Marion clone, i would be very happy (that is HOF'r type of quality), though some people wont because he wont be viewed as a super star

I'd be fine with that too, but I really doubt he becomes the scorer Paul George or Kawhi is.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1498 » by rcklsscognition » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:38 pm

Gordon has one of the highest probabilities on the team to be a 20PPG scorer which makes it hard for me to believe he's as inept on that end as many make him out to be. I don't think it's necessary for Gordon to be a "good" 3 point shooter for this to work either. The issue, is finding a spot for him on the team and running and offense he can shine in. Aaron "Pro-Am" Gordon is living and breathing inside this kid waiting to come out and this may be the season it happens.
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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1499 » by Def Swami » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:47 pm

I have a really good feeling about Gordon that I haven't had for any of the other draft prospects as well. The advanced stats, per 36 numbers, athleticism, age, and mental game give me confidence he'll reach his ceiling.


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Re: 2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - We're talking about practice! 

Post#1500 » by fendilim » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:50 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:Gordon has one of the highest probabilities on the team to be a 20PPG scorer which makes it hard for me to believe he's as inept on that end as many make him out to be. I don't think it's necessary for Gordon to be a "good" 3 point shooter for this to work either. The issue, is finding a spot for him on the team and running and offense he can shine in. Aaron "Pro-Am" Gordon is living and breathing inside this kid waiting to come out and this may be the season it happens.

Sorry, but Pro-AM is a much different level than the NBA.
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