Markelle Fultz

[RichCollab]

Did Mo Bamba get much run? Oh yeah, Fultz was drafted #1…

I don’t really think being drafted 6# really matters that much given the talent depth we have now.

[eyriq]

Did Mo Bamba get much run? Oh yeah, Fultz was drafted #1…

I don’t really think being drafted 6# really matters that much given the talent depth we have now.

Is Fultz about to earn his 3rd contract? Is Bamba a scrub? Is Vooch an all-star? Are we rebuilding? Context matters.

Fultz is a veteran, a known quantity. The #1 pick upside has played out.

Vooch broke out and played like an all-star. Weltman was bridging the Hennigan era, looking to salvage what he could. They were trying to build a playoff contender.

We are not in playoff contention mode. This is an organic build through the draft that is slow and methodical. Different strategy. Different circumstances. In this strategy with these circumstances being the number six pick is extremely important.

[Knightro]

Did Mo Bamba get much run? Oh yeah, Fultz was drafted #1…

I don’t really think being drafted 6# really matters that much given the talent depth we have now.

Is Fultz about to earn his 3rd contract? Is Bamba a scrub? Is Vooch an all-star? Are we rebuilding? Context matters.

Fultz is a veteran, a known quantity. The #1 pick upside has played out.

Vooch broke out and played like an all-star. Weltman was bridging the Hennigan era, looking to salvage what he could. They were trying to build a playoff contender.

We are not in playoff contention mode. This is an organic build through the draft that is slow and methodical. Different strategy. Different circumstances. In this strategy with these circumstances being the number six pick is extremely important.

Again, there's multiple ways of looking at this.

You're suggesting that the Magic aren't all in for the playoffs because they haven't cashed in any chips or made an consolidation trades in an effort to maximize their ability to win now. And I agree with you that's true.

But just because that is the case, doesn't mean that they don't *care* about trying to win this season and it's a purely developmental year either. If it was, two of Fultz/Cole/Gary wouldn't be here and Black/Jett would be in the rotation from day 1.

The reality is that it's somewhere in the middle. It's not a "we're fully all-in and we must win" season, but it's clearly also not a "we're focused solely on the development of our young guys" season either.

They're trying to take both paths at the same time, while leaving themselves the ability to pivot one direction or the other in case one path appears more fruitful than the other.

[eyriq]

Did Mo Bamba get much run? Oh yeah, Fultz was drafted #1…

I don’t really think being drafted 6# really matters that much given the talent depth we have now.

Is Fultz about to earn his 3rd contract? Is Bamba a scrub? Is Vooch an all-star? Are we rebuilding? Context matters.

Fultz is a veteran, a known quantity. The #1 pick upside has played out.

Vooch broke out and played like an all-star. Weltman was bridging the Hennigan era, looking to salvage what he could. They were trying to build a playoff contender.

We are not in playoff contention mode. This is an organic build through the draft that is slow and methodical. Different strategy. Different circumstances. In this strategy with these circumstances being the number six pick is extremely important.

Again, there's multiple ways of looking at this.

You're suggesting that the Magic aren't all in for the playoffs because they haven't cashed in any chips or made an consolidation trades in an effort to maximize their ability to win now. And I agree with you that's true.

But just because that is the case, doesn't mean that they don't *care* about trying to win this season and it's a purely developmental year either. If it was, two of Fultz/Cole/Gary wouldn't be here and Black/Jett would be in the rotation from day 1.

The reality is that it's somewhere in the middle. It's not a "we're fully all-in and we must win" season, but it's clearly also not a "we're focused solely on the development of our young guys" season either.

They're trying to take both paths at the same time, while leaving themselves the ability to pivot one direction or the other in case one path appears more fruitful than the other.

They don't need to move Fultz, Harris, and Cole. THEY ARE EXPIRING. Doing nothing is a sign that the long-term role is up for grabs. That back court is a vestige of the previous era. You see the front office doing nothing as confirmation that they're going to sign Fultz to a long-term contract and bury Black. Somehow them doing nothing in your mind is a win now move. This makes absolutely no sense to me in any context. And you completely ignore or pass over or gloss over the fact that they drafted two guards in the lottery. Why would they do that? BPA? You paint this picture that they're somehow just flailing in the wind. Hoping for something that sticks. They don't have a plan. The plan is that they're rebuilding organically, exactly LIKE THEY SAY THEY ARE DOING.

And this idea that Black's not going to be in the rotation is still laughable, I just want to point out how frustrating I find that opinion.

[Knightro]

And this idea that Black's not going to be in the rotation is still laughable, I just want to point out how frustrating I find that opinion.

Well when that's exactly how it plays out, will you apologize?

[Knightro]

They don't need to move Fultz, Harris, and Cole. THEY ARE EXPIRING. Doing nothing is a sign that the long-term role is up for grabs. That back court is a vestige of the previous era. You see the front office doing nothing as confirmation that they're going to sign Fultz to a long-term contract and bury Black. Somehow them doing nothing in your mind is a win now move. This makes absolutely no sense to me in any context. And you completely ignore or pass over or gloss over the fact that they drafted two guards in the lottery. Why would they do that? BPA? You paint this picture that they're somehow just flailing in the wind. Hoping for something that sticks. They don't have a plan. The plan is that they're rebuilding organically, exactly LIKE THEY SAY THEY ARE DOING.

If you don't think this front office is susceptible to letting the team's overall success this season dictate what they do this upcoming summer, then I just don't know what to tell you.

You're predicting (I know you were exaggerating that number, but bear with me) that the Magic are going to win 52 games this season.

In what universe do you think the Magic would let their starting PG and the 25 MPG 6th man walk for nothing coming off a 52 win season?

They wouldn't let those guys walk coming off a 42 win season

They're not gonna hand the starting PG keys over to a mostly untested Anthony Black next season if they go like 43-39 this season with Fultz starting, Cole backing him up and Black playing minimally. They're just not and I don't understand how you don't see this.

[eyriq]

And this idea that Black's not going to be in the rotation is still laughable, I just want to point out how frustrating I find that opinion.

Well when that's exactly how it plays out, will you apologize?

Haha yes. I'll apologize. I really hope you are wrong though. Locking up Fultz and burying Black are moves that will indicate we've lost patience and are starting to think short-term over long-term. With Franz and Paolo still several years away from being ready I can't see this as a good decision.

[eyriq]

They don't need to move Fultz, Harris, and Cole. THEY ARE EXPIRING. Doing nothing is a sign that the long-term role is up for grabs. That back court is a vestige of the previous era. You see the front office doing nothing as confirmation that they're going to sign Fultz to a long-term contract and bury Black. Somehow them doing nothing in your mind is a win now move. This makes absolutely no sense to me in any context. And you completely ignore or pass over or gloss over the fact that they drafted two guards in the lottery. Why would they do that? BPA? You paint this picture that they're somehow just flailing in the wind. Hoping for something that sticks. They don't have a plan. The plan is that they're rebuilding organically, exactly LIKE THEY SAY THEY ARE DOING.

If you don't think this front office is susceptible to letting the team's overall success this season dictate what they do this upcoming summer, then I just don't know what to tell you.

You're predicting (I know you were exaggerating that number, but bear with me) that the Magic are going to win 52 games this season.

In what universe do you think the Magic would let their starting PG and the 25 MPG 6th man walk for nothing coming off a 52 win season?

They wouldn't let those guys walk coming off a 42 win season

They're not gonna hand the starting PG keys over to a mostly untested Anthony Black next season if they go like 43-39 this season with Fultz starting, Cole backing him up and Black playing minimally. They're just not and I don't understand how you don't see this.

When Paolo and Franz lead us to 52 wins locking up Fultz will likely make sense, along with Isaac. That's such a beautiful world though because of the implications for Paolo and Franz and their greatness. An immediate switch to win now would make sense.

[Knightro]

Why put off to tomorrow what you can do right now?

If the argument is "it doesn't matter that Fultz and Anthony and Harris are here right now because they're all expiring contracts and won't be blocking the young guys this time next year" - then why are those three guys even here this season in the first place? What purpose are they serving this season if winning isn't a priority?

If the team plays well this season, the Magic won't want to trade any of them away. If the team plays poorly this season, it very likely means those guys are all playing poorly too and teams won't want to trade for them, ya know?

If this is actually a developmental year, then the Magic should be playing Suggs and Black and Howard big minutes from the jump and simply live with the consequences of their inevitable struggles. But it's not.

[The-Stallion70]

It's the NBA season. Even if a guy doesn't start the season in the rotation, injuries are going to happen, PED's, fights and suspensions are going to happen and next thing you know new guys are in the rotation and sh** like Linsanity happens.

[yoyojw17]

Here’s probably the fundamental difference between our points of view. You guys would like to move away from Fultz, whereas I would like to move towards someone better. Your view creates a greater sense of urgency, which conflicts with mine of wanting to wait for the right option. A lot of the other discussion points which have been created atop this will end up proving to be frivolous and of this moment in a few seasons time.

I get what you’re saying and in a vacuum I don’t even disagree with you.

But what we’re saying back at you is “waiting for the right option” is how the Magic are going to end up with Fultz on a 4/100 deal that has a most likely negative trade value.

I firmly do not believe letting Fultz walk after this season is a realistic option.

The Magic will resign him because A. they like what he provides on the court more than they should and because B. they (incorrectly IMO) think it will be more valuable to “retain the asset” for a future trade possibility.

But the problem with B is that unless Fultz shows a level of improvement that quite frankly would be very rare for a player going into his 7th NBA season, the odds of Fultz actually being a valuable trade asset at the salary he’s likely to command seems very low.

Fultz getting re-signed would surprise me. The front office is in the midst of rebuilding the back court. Drafting a PG and SG in the lottery is a huge tell, especially after drafting a guard three drafts ago. The fact is that Black is the favorite to be the PG of the future. We are still focused on maximizing future value. This implies we'll prioritize developing Black. Re-signing Fultz would block that development. Unless Fultz is an all-star, he's gone.

We had 2 picks.... And there are 5 starting positions.... And varying available taken in the draft. If the bpa was a center.... Would people start saying Wendell is on his way out? Lol. AB a huge guard... And can probably play the 1-3.... So it's kind of hard to guarantee that there is something to read behind it. If fultz is a catalysts to wins..... He will get resigned. The wins now is the most important... And AB will continue to grow and decisions will be made in the future. Butt there is no rush with a rookie contract controlled.

[Knightro]

It's the NBA season. Even if a guy doesn't start the season in the rotation, injuries are going to happen, PED's, fights and suspensions are going to happen and next thing you know new guys are in the rotation and sh** like Linsanity happens.

Of course they will have injuries.

But the Magic have, on paper at least, set up a scenario where both of their lottery picks simply won't be regularly playing *unless* the team has injuries at their positions.

That is just not how you maximize a young player's development IMO.

[eyriq]

I get what you’re saying and in a vacuum I don’t even disagree with you.

But what we’re saying back at you is “waiting for the right option” is how the Magic are going to end up with Fultz on a 4/100 deal that has a most likely negative trade value.

I firmly do not believe letting Fultz walk after this season is a realistic option.

The Magic will resign him because A. they like what he provides on the court more than they should and because B. they (incorrectly IMO) think it will be more valuable to “retain the asset” for a future trade possibility.

But the problem with B is that unless Fultz shows a level of improvement that quite frankly would be very rare for a player going into his 7th NBA season, the odds of Fultz actually being a valuable trade asset at the salary he’s likely to command seems very low.

Fultz getting re-signed would surprise me. The front office is in the midst of rebuilding the back court. Drafting a PG and SG in the lottery is a huge tell, especially after drafting a guard three drafts ago. The fact is that Black is the favorite to be the PG of the future. We are still focused on maximizing future value. This implies we'll prioritize developing Black. Re-signing Fultz would block that development. Unless Fultz is an all-star, he's gone.

We had 2 picks.... And there are 5 starting positions.... And varying available taken in the draft. If the bpa was a center.... Would people start saying Wendell is on his way out? Lol. AB a huge guard... And can probably play the 1-3.... So it's kind of hard to guarantee that there is something to read behind it. If fultz is a catalysts to wins..... He will get resigned. The wins now is the most important... And AB will continue to grow and decisions will be made in the future. Butt there is no rush with a rookie contract controlled.

You really don't see a connection between drafting for roles without long-term contracts?

[The-Stallion70]

It's the NBA season. Even if a guy doesn't start the season in the rotation, injuries are going to happen, PED's, fights and suspensions are going to happen and next thing you know new guys are in the rotation and sh** like Linsanity happens.

Of course they will have injuries.

But the Magic have, on paper at least, set up a scenario where both of their lottery picks simply won't be regularly playing *unless* the team has injuries at their positions.

That is just not how you maximize a young player's development IMO.

I don't agree at all. How could this possibly be true, develop players by not playing them?

I don't believe Jett and Black are completely useless on the current Magic roster.

Jett is possibly the best shooter on the roster and for our team that needs shooting, he may end up playing more than many expect him to.

A lineup with Black at point guard is perfectly switchable defensively. Especially if we play Jett at the two. Black's size is a big asset on defense.

Burrying two lottery picks is just not how you go about the NBA season.

[Knightro]

I don't agree at all. How could this possibly be true, develop players by not playing them?

I don't believe Jett and Black are completely useless on the current Magic roster.

Jett is possibly the best shooter on the roster and for our team that needs shooting, he may end up playing more than many expect him to.

A lineup with Black at point guard is perfectly switchable defensively. Especially if we play Jett at the two. Black's size is a big asset on defense.

Burrying two lottery picks is just not how you go about the NBA season.

Don't think we're completely on the same page here.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that burying lotto picks is not how you develop players. Players need to play to get better.

But right now in this moment, the Magic have both lotto picks on the third team and they're not going to play regularly unless there's injuries.

[VFX]

I don't agree at all. How could this possibly be true, develop players by not playing them?

I don't believe Jett and Black are completely useless on the current Magic roster.

Jett is possibly the best shooter on the roster and for our team that needs shooting, he may end up playing more than many expect him to.

A lineup with Black at point guard is perfectly switchable defensively. Especially if we play Jett at the two. Black's size is a big asset on defense.

Burrying two lottery picks is just not how you go about the NBA season.

Don't think we're completely on the same page here.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that burying lotto picks is not how you develop players. Players need to play to get better.

But right now in this moment, the Magic have both lotto picks on the third team and they're not going to play regularly unless there's injuries.

And what you two are talking about has always been a huge criticism of the current FO regarding prospects not named Paolo.

It’s exactly as Knightro said… they are going to half-ass “development” and “playoffs” thinking they can do both without sacrificing anything. Sorry, that’s not how it works.

Fultz, whether people like it or not, is part of that discussion simply due to the roster construction and the value of other assets. You aren’t going to attempt to start a guy on a contract season all 82 games and then let him walk for nothing. If they resign him you can all but guarantee Cole is gone.

It frankly doesn’t matter what people think they know about AB. He has to play to get better and Orlando wasn’t good enough last season to be burying a #6 pick into scarce bench minutes behind a fringe starting point guard that wouldn’t be in opening lineups for 90% of other teams.

[yoyojw17]

Fultz getting re-signed would surprise me. The front office is in the midst of rebuilding the back court. Drafting a PG and SG in the lottery is a huge tell, especially after drafting a guard three drafts ago. The fact is that Black is the favorite to be the PG of the future. We are still focused on maximizing future value. This implies we'll prioritize developing Black. Re-signing Fultz would block that development. Unless Fultz is an all-star, he's gone.

We had 2 picks.... And there are 5 starting positions.... And varying available taken in the draft. If the bpa was a center.... Would people start saying Wendell is on his way out? Lol. AB a huge guard... And can probably play the 1-3.... So it's kind of hard to guarantee that there is something to read behind it. If fultz is a catalysts to wins..... He will get resigned. The wins now is the most important... And AB will continue to grow and decisions will be made in the future. Butt there is no rush with a rookie contract controlled.

You really don't see a connection between drafting for roles without long-term contracts?

It's not that i don't see it.... it's just that there aren't any guarantees. Fultz plays exceptionally.... a higher chance of a contract. he doesn't meet expectations and AB does better than expected.... then there are possibilities of replacement and if that's the case... so be it! I'm just part of the camp that believes we have to let it play out.... and if not pivot. But no matter what we will be seeing what these players can do and there is no reason to rush. Fultz deserves evaluation just as much as anyone else on the team

[eyriq]

We had 2 picks.... And there are 5 starting positions.... And varying available taken in the draft. If the bpa was a center.... Would people start saying Wendell is on his way out? Lol. AB a huge guard... And can probably play the 1-3.... So it's kind of hard to guarantee that there is something to read behind it. If fultz is a catalysts to wins..... He will get resigned. The wins now is the most important... And AB will continue to grow and decisions will be made in the future. Butt there is no rush with a rookie contract controlled.

You really don't see a connection between drafting for roles without long-term contracts?

It's not that i don't see it.... it's just that there aren't any guarantees. Fultz plays exceptionally.... a higher chance of a contract. he doesn't meet expectations and AB does better than expected.... then there are possibilities of replacement and if that's the case... so be it! I'm just part of the camp that believes we have to let it play out.... and if not pivot. But no matter what we will be seeing what these players can do and there is no reason to rush. Fultz deserves evaluation just as much as anyone else on the team

Fair enough. Hard to cap what Fultz can be given all the road blocks he's fought through. Let's see what he brings in a contract year.

[yoyojw17]

You really don't see a connection between drafting for roles without long-term contracts?

It's not that i don't see it.... it's just that there aren't any guarantees. Fultz plays exceptionally.... a higher chance of a contract. he doesn't meet expectations and AB does better than expected.... then there are possibilities of replacement and if that's the case... so be it! I'm just part of the camp that believes we have to let it play out.... and if not pivot. But no matter what we will be seeing what these players can do and there is no reason to rush. Fultz deserves evaluation just as much as anyone else on the team

Fair enough. Hard to cap what Fultz can be given all the road blocks he's fought through. Let's see what he brings in a contract year.

that's all i've ever wanted to see

[MasterGMer]

Freaking Gosh, Markelle is in the best shape of his life. Dude is ready for a breakout season and all the signs point to that. That dunk is Top 10 all season for the Magic, period. Dude works so hard especially on his form of 3 point shot. Give him a chance to show what he's got this season before extending him. But I think we have a steal easily and Markelle could be a Star!