ImageImageImageImage

2023 NBA Draft Thread 4

Moderators: Howard Mass, UCF, Knightro, Def Swami, ChosenSavior, UCFJayBird

User avatar
MartinsIzAfraud
Head Coach
Posts: 6,469
And1: 4,857
Joined: Mar 07, 2017
Location: Work
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1481 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:24 pm

thelead wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:I just hope we have a plan.

I feel it’s time to start consolidating assets.

While I like that idea of say Black/Asur + Dick, I then take a step back and look at a roster of Fultz, Suggs, Cole, Harris and even Franz and say where are the minutes??

It’s time to truly build around Franz and Paolo rather than collect as many assets as we can and see what works.

The easiest way to make it aI’ll work is a Hendricks/Dick draft. Not saying its what I prefer but it would be ‘safe’ and less work for the FO.:

WCJ/JI
Paolo/Hendricks
Franz/Dick
Suggs/Harris
Fultz/Cole


between Hendricks or Coulibaly & Dick is what I'm expecting. It's super easy for FO to do something without really doing anything to change much. Internal improvements, minimal competition for Fultz/Cole/Suggs and run it back
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
davey_wavy
Starter
Posts: 2,022
And1: 1,101
Joined: Jun 28, 2012
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1482 » by davey_wavy » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:24 pm

jonbob17
Analyst
Posts: 3,481
And1: 1,440
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1483 » by jonbob17 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:28 pm

eyriq wrote:Thinking back to the star, starter, role player, bust thought project, really fascinating how the average distribution is 4/3/4/3.

This implies that at No. 6 you can expect to add a starter and at No. 11 you can expect to add a role player.

Very much an oversimplified view, but like any model it has some interesting implications.

A draft is a complex system that doesn't lend itself to an exact science. So much missing and imperfect information resulting in stars, starters, and role players falling outside the lottery. At a certain point fit makes all the difference.


We just don't know....Even looking at "generational" drafts. Wiggins, Parker, Embiid. The only guy that lived up to expectations was the guy who sat out his first two years of the NBA, and plays a position the league doesn't care about anymore.
Then you add in the injury possiblility. Even Zion is getting thrown around in trade rumors..

I disagree with the fit aspect almost all of the time. You take the guy highest on your draft board, unless its a center and the team is already set at center (Jokic, Embiid, Gobert, etc). Every other position you need the depth or you can play guys together, and at some point guys are getting moved. If you have a couple/few guys right next to each other (tiered) sure pick the fit. Teams in the 20's are better equipped to draft for fit, for a couple reasons, not as many holes, and the guys in that draft range or more closley grouped together.

The Magic are in a rebuild, and we haven't had a consolidation trade since...the Toby Harris or Oladipo deals, and they were absolute terrible trades, by a desperate manager. At some point this FO will be making a trade, and you have to be able to trade from strength.
User avatar
eyriq
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,926
And1: 9,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: #TheLab
Contact:
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1484 » by eyriq » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:33 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:
eyriq wrote:
SOUL wrote:I'm considering going dark the entire draft.. doing something else.. come back.. see what chaos has ensued..
I'm visiting family in Germany. I'll likely be sleeping during the draft. So I'll be right there with you! But it would be fun to take information as it comes in and update expectations...


I wont be online during the draft. I have just learned a lot about you. Have fun on your trip!
I'm an open book!
jonbob17
Analyst
Posts: 3,481
And1: 1,440
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1485 » by jonbob17 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:33 pm

fendilim wrote:
The Effect wrote:Say coulibaly is there at 11, anyone think we could draft him and trade him to the Spurs for vassell?

I'm not a big vassell fan but I know most this board is. Spurs would get wembys teammate to help him adjust in the NBA and also clear Cap space to sign say Austin Reaves and another max player?

Just random thought I had this morning

I think we’ll need to add more to make this work


Sounds like San Antonio want to come out of this draft ready to compete. They are a team that is getting mentioned with the free agents and Chris Paul and such. Assuming they will want Vassell to help them win now. BIlal seeems like a large project.
User avatar
eyriq
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,926
And1: 9,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: #TheLab
Contact:
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1486 » by eyriq » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:34 pm

davey_wavy wrote:https://youtube.com/shorts/S1C_PV9cjrc?feature=share

Seems fitting for Draft Week..
LMAO, Suggs killed it, Paolo looked a bit uncomfy
MagicFan101
RealGM
Posts: 11,268
And1: 6,580
Joined: Jul 04, 2012
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1487 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:36 pm

thelead wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:I just hope we have a plan.

I feel it’s time to start consolidating assets.

While I like that idea of say Black/Asur + Dick, I then take a step back and look at a roster of Fultz, Suggs, Cole, Harris and even Franz and say where are the minutes??

It’s time to truly build around Franz and Paolo rather than collect as many assets as we can and see what works.

The easiest way to make it aI’ll work is a Hendricks/Dick draft. Not saying its what I prefer but it would be ‘safe’ and less work for the FO.:

WCJ/JI
Paolo/Hendricks
Franz/Dick
Suggs/Harris
Fultz/Cole


I have never been a fan of drafting Need over Talent. I don’t mean to suggest Hendricks is a lesser talent, more that we already have a bit of of logjam and even adding Dick only increases that.

I’m speaking more towards trades.
User avatar
eyriq
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,926
And1: 9,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: #TheLab
Contact:
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1488 » by eyriq » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:43 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:I just hope we have a plan.

I feel it’s time to start consolidating assets.

While I like that idea of say Black/Asur + Dick, I then take a step back and look at a roster of Fultz, Suggs, Cole, Harris and even Franz and say where are the minutes??

It’s time to truly build around Franz and Paolo rather than collect as many assets as we can and see what works.


I'm with you. It's hard to reconcile running it back with maximizing this draft and free agency.

The situation is begging for a consolidation move and pivot into the Franchero era.

Ok, we need a good nick for the Paolo and Franz duo, I already forgot the one I liked.
jonbob17
Analyst
Posts: 3,481
And1: 1,440
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1489 » by jonbob17 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:46 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:I will be so happy when we are back into the playoffs and don’t have to pay too much attention to the draft. This happens not so much here but still it is prevalent on other mediums and I am maybe guilty of it. But the people who are saying this guy or bust who I know have not really done their homework are getting on my nerves. They maybe watched half of a 6 minute video of the prospect and they are now an expert and if the magic don’t agree and take someone else they will fire off some passive aggressive tweet.

From my perspective I really try to educate myself on the positives and weakness of players. I also make sure I never get high on one guy especially where we are drafting because I am for sure not a draft expert. I have watched some full Ohio state games and that is the limited time I have spent while our scouting team is on this for years really. If they pick Coulibaly I am not going to tell them they are wrong because I haven’t watched any full Met 92 games. This doesn’t say you can’t be critical of decision but damn just acknowledge that our front office and scouting have put way more effort into this then anyone and drafting is truly a damn crapshoot


I believe in this front office's ability to scout. Franz was a terrific pick who many saw as an unathletic white guy with a meh shot. I do wonder about how much they scouted Suggs. Word was they were taking Giddey there. Suggs was/is a very good prospect

Most everybody thought we should draft for fit last year and draft the incredible shooter in Jabari Smith, or many fans Chet.

There were better picks after Cole, but he's fine, he'll probably play in the NBA for 12 years.

Okeke...this one is a bit suspect. He really hasn't shown any improvement, but there wasn't a lot on the board at that point either. Seemed sneaky good at the time. Not sure if the knee injury played a part in his failed development. I kind of liked Bitadze, Grant Williams, Brandon Clarke, and Thybulle, but its not like they are world beaters either.

Bamba was a bust...but a guy with his size and shooting..is going to be a player GMs drool over...he just had no feel for the game whatsoever, and might be a red flag on future decisions. In this draft Bamba might be pick 4.

Isaac - He was a great pick. He's just hasn't been able to stay healthy.
The-Stallion70
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,927
And1: 705
Joined: Mar 22, 2022

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1490 » by The-Stallion70 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:51 pm

Everything I've read says we're taking Ausar:

Talk to me, is there some likelihood out there that suggests we could move 6 for FVV or another shooting point guard?
California Gold wrote:This is extra because people hate the Lakers and their brand so much.

This trade wasn't some conspiracy - it was just a GM wanting AD bad enough where in most people's eyes he overpaid by a long shot to get him.
MasterGMer
Analyst
Posts: 3,702
And1: 768
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1491 » by MasterGMer » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:52 pm

I hope we make a trade to move up or trade for a star like Mikal Bridges.
yoyojw17
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,867
And1: 3,460
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Gainesville,FL
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1492 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:57 pm

SOUL wrote:

Miller/Bufkin

would be a shocker draft lol, but at least its something different

The bufkin comparison to beal with more defense made some pretty good sense. I would love to come out of the draft with him.
User avatar
eyriq
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 34,926
And1: 9,872
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: #TheLab
Contact:
 

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1493 » by eyriq » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:00 pm

Man, the ringer has Amen and Ausar going 4 & 5, and us taking Black with Whitmore slipping. I'm fine with Black over Whitmore but the Keyonte slander is just too much! Keyonte was top 5 at the beginning of the draft cycle, has a terrific freshman year, and is a perfect fit.
User avatar
Harry Garris
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,248
And1: 13,971
Joined: Jul 12, 2017
     

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1494 » by Harry Garris » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:03 pm

eyriq wrote:Man, the ringer has Amen and Ausar going 4 & 5, and us taking Black with Whitmore slipping. I'm fine with Black over Whitmore but the Keyonte slander is just too much! Keyonte was top 5 at the beginning of the draft cycle, has a terrific freshman year, and is a perfect fit.


He’s a small guard that struggles to get much separation on his shot. I’m not saying that dooms him as a NBA player, but he’s not a risk free prospect
Image
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 38,028
And1: 15,094
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1495 » by basketballRob » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:30 pm

Cam feels like the pick today, but like Weltman said, it's fluid.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 4,891
And1: 2,119
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1496 » by The Effect » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:34 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
fendilim wrote:
The Effect wrote:Say coulibaly is there at 11, anyone think we could draft him and trade him to the Spurs for vassell?

I'm not a big vassell fan but I know most this board is. Spurs would get wembys teammate to help him adjust in the NBA and also clear Cap space to sign say Austin Reaves and another max player?

Just random thought I had this morning

I think we’ll need to add more to make this work


Sounds like San Antonio want to come out of this draft ready to compete. They are a team that is getting mentioned with the free agents and Chris Paul and such. Assuming they will want Vassell to help them win now. BIlal seeems like a large project.


For sure, I doubt they are still gonna tank, but I think first and foremost they want to do everything for wembys to be comfortable and successful and that can begin with his French teammate. And the money they would of paid vassell (who is a fa after this upcoming season) could go to say Austin Reaves and cp3

Imagine that lineup

Wembys
Sochan
Keldon
Reaves
Cp3

With a bench of tre Jones, coulabily, collins, graham and McDermott , branham....

That's a team that compete next year

And as for needing to add more, maybe? But at the same time coulabily is a projected top 10 pick in a deep draft with the potential to be one of the top players from this draft, and has added value for the Spurs cause of the wembys connection....I could see them asking for more but not anything crazy...maybe the Denver pick or our 2nd this year (worthless to weham lol) and a future pick etc
The Effect
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 4,891
And1: 2,119
Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1497 » by The Effect » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:37 pm

Harry Garris wrote:
eyriq wrote:Man, the ringer has Amen and Ausar going 4 & 5, and us taking Black with Whitmore slipping. I'm fine with Black over Whitmore but the Keyonte slander is just too much! Keyonte was top 5 at the beginning of the draft cycle, has a terrific freshman year, and is a perfect fit.


He’s a small guard that struggles to get much separation on his shot. I’m not saying that dooms him as a NBA player, but he’s not a risk free prospect


Not to mention he shot 37% from the field

I've done zero research but how many SG have shot under 40% in college and became good shooters in the pros? Might be a lot I really don't know, but it seems like a bad sign
jonbob17
Analyst
Posts: 3,481
And1: 1,440
Joined: Jul 01, 2020

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1498 » by jonbob17 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:42 pm

The Effect wrote:
For sure, I doubt they are still gonna tank, but I think first and foremost they want to do everything for wembys to be comfortable and successful and that can begin with his French teammate. And the money they would of paid vassell (who is a fa after this upcoming season) could go to say Austin Reaves and cp3

Imagine that lineup

Wembys
Sochan
Keldon
Reaves
Cp3

With a bench of tre Jones, coulabily, collins, graham and McDermott , branham....

That's a team that compete next year

And as for needing to add more, maybe? But at the same time coulabily is a projected top 10 pick in a deep draft with the potential to be one of the top players from this draft, and has added value for the Spurs cause of the wembys connection....I could see them asking for more but not anything crazy...maybe the Denver pick or our 2nd this year (worthless to weham lol) and a future pick etc


Looks like they have up to 48M to spend this offseason. I want Vassell as much as anyone. I just don't know why they would move him. If they do great, let's do it. 11 + denver, without hesitation.
User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 26,011
And1: 15,410
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Huevos Bancheros Brunch
Contact:
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1499 » by Def Swami » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:50 pm

Mock Drafts on 06/20

ESPN:
#6: Ausur Thompson
#11: Gradey Dick

The Ringer:
#6: Anthony Black
#11: Dereck Lively

SB Nation:
#6: Cam Whitmore
#11: Gradey Dick

A lot of overlap in names in all 3 mocks if you read the commentary. Seems like names at #6 are Ausur Thompson, Anthony Black, and Cam Whitmore. #11 is Gradey Dick, Jordan Hawkins, and Dereck Lively. Givony name dropped Coulibaly as a possibility to us at #11 as well.
JoshuaPotter
Analyst
Posts: 3,733
And1: 1,068
Joined: Dec 19, 2022
   

Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1500 » by JoshuaPotter » Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:57 pm

Def Swami wrote:Mock Drafts on 06/20

ESPN:
#6: Ausur Thompson
#11: Gradey Dick

The Ringer:
#6: Anthony Black
#11: Dereck Lively

SB Nation:
#6: Cam Whitmore
#11: Gradey Dick

A lot of overlap in names in all 3 mocks if you read the commentary. Seems like names at #6 are Ausur Thompson, Anthony Black, and Cam Whitmore. #11 is Gradey Dick, Jordan Hawkins, and Dereck Lively. Givony name dropped Coulibaly as a possibility to us at #11 as well.


i would be happy with all three scenarios.

Suggs @ PG please.....

Return to Orlando Magic