Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Would be interested to see what type of HCs we would be linked to. What’s attractive to this Orlando Roster?

I'm guessing Clifford has one of the least hottest seats in the entire NBA.

I get the vibes ownership is thrilled with the job he and his staff have done so far.

Oh absolutely they’re pumped he’s been able to milk every ounce of 8th seed for them. It’ll be interesting to see what happens this offseason and if they give him any help in terms of offensive players.

[J the Drafter]

The team’s future will be determined by how good the Bamba/Isaac/Fultz/Gordon quartet is. Management has largely done what I would have; be patient and collect players in the draft. They’ve also gotten rid of players to ease cap space, grabbed Fultz at a bargain, and found Ennis and MCW. We’ll know what this team is when—or if—Isaac, Bamba, Fultz and Gordon demonstrate they can be cornerstones. I don’t think a major trade is necessarily desirable, and it could be detrimental.

[SOUL]

The team’s future will be determined by how good the Bamba/Isaac/Fultz/Gordon quartet is. Management has largely done what I would have; be patient and collect players in the draft. They’ve also gotten rid of players to ease cap space, grabbed Fultz at a bargain, and found Ennis and MCW. We’ll know what this team is when—or if—Isaac, Bamba, Fultz and Gordon demonstrate they can be cornerstones. I don’t think a major trade is necessarily desirable, and it could be detrimental.

The "when and if" has to be sooner than later for our fans not to revolt and grow even more tired of this team. Other teams are not shy about giving young guys big minutes and throwing them out to the fire win or lose and involving them heavily in their offense. The reins have to be unleashed on Fultz and Bamba (if they can handle it) next season for that to happen, and that's only if none of these players are traded.

Isaac will be out the entire year.

Fultz will have to play around 30 minutes each night and play a bigger role in the offense, Bamba will have to start getting 20-25 minutes nightly. Gordon, if not traded, will figure maybe to play the "do it all" sort of role he's played the latter half of our season.

I'm not saying this will be successful or not, just if we're going on this philosophy of not changing much yet again and waiting for greatness, then we can't wait for greatness in 15 minute spurts for Bamba or with Fultz standing around watching DJ dribble the ball and playing passive.

We have to switch something up if our mantra is truly about evaluating our future and "handing the keys" to them.

It'll never work if we have the keys gripped in someone else's hand and then half-ass evaluate when we're playing guys as 3rd-8th options each night.

Again, none of this is an argument on what will be best for the team, just that if our FO truly is invested in our future guys, then the training wheels will have to come off.

[VFX]

The team’s future will be determined by how good the Bamba/Isaac/Fultz/Gordon quartet is. Management has largely done what I would have; be patient and collect players in the draft. They’ve also gotten rid of players to ease cap space, grabbed Fultz at a bargain, and found Ennis and MCW. We’ll know what this team is when—or if—Isaac, Bamba, Fultz and Gordon demonstrate they can be cornerstones. I don’t think a major trade is necessarily desirable, and it could be detrimental.

Wow. I don’t think I’ve disagreed more with a post on this forum. Congratulations. You win.

[OrlandoNed]

The team’s future will be determined by how good the Bamba/Isaac/Fultz/Gordon quartet is. Management has largely done what I would have; be patient and collect players in the draft. They’ve also gotten rid of players to ease cap space, grabbed Fultz at a bargain, and found Ennis and MCW. We’ll know what this team is when—or if—Isaac, Bamba, Fultz and Gordon demonstrate they can be cornerstones. I don’t think a major trade is necessarily desirable, and it could be detrimental.

Wow. I don’t think I’ve disagreed more with a post on this forum. Congratulations. You win.

You missed “ease cap space”.

What cap space? We don’t have any! We’re in around the top 5 of salary this year and next year!

Yeah, WeHam are a pair of freaking financial geniuses paying top dollar for a team that can barely make the playoffs in the freaking East! Their tenure in Orlando is a total waste of everybody’s time. I mean, our former GM Hennigan was an idiot but at least he tinkered plenty with a flawed roster and made risks to improve the team instead of just running back the same garbage year after year like WeHam do.

[pepe1991]

People know answer to a question can Bamba, Fultz,Isaac and Gordon be cornerstones. Some just don't like the answer. So they look for excues by pointing fingers in any other direction.

[basketballRob]

I can't recall what was last year where not a single allstar was moved. I really tried. Last 15 years all had at least one.
This year it was D'angelo Russell. Last year bunch of allstars were moved around.

Chances are not slim at all. Most teams, much like Magic, refuse to make that type of move because they overvalue their assets.

Just in February, when i suggest i would do Donovan MItchell trade, lot of people shut me down telling how he is just a guy and how Gobert is best Jazz player. This playoffs once again showed how overvalued single person defense is and how you can't build anything around defenive center.

Over years i wanted Malik Beasly trade at least twice.
Jamal Murray - for Gordon trade , at least 5 times.
Vuc for Hayward and one of billion Nets picks- at least 5 times.

Back in 2018 i wanted to do Irving trade. Once again, bunch of people here were outraged over my idea of selling farm for established allstars. In hindsight that trade, with solid menagment would probably lead to Magic landing Durant

And that's pretty much same issue with this, or any other fans forum. Each and every fanbase overhypes and overvalues assets and young players. To the point where they won't sell some future nobody for established star because of "Potential".
I mean just remember days when Gordon was new, just more athletic Kawhi ,according to some, and Payton was "making poster fall in love in basketball again". It's laughable what fans say. Worst front offices are ones who actually listen or care what fans think. Fans opinion is irrelevant to sucess of a team. What we say here should have zero value for them.


Ezzzp was too egoistic and "always right even if it means talking about some point to oblivion " type of poster, but he said a lot of right stuff. Magic fans on this forum just want to tank to get rid of 2 players. That's pretty much only reason.
There is portion of fans who don't understand that Evan option out, will not make ANY difference for Orlando, as they will still have NO cap space to sign anybody. Him leaving is literally- one asset less. ZEEEEERO gain. Why root for something that makes your team worst in both playing and asset department?
There is portion of fans who hate DJ because he "east Fultz playing time ", where in reality it's other way around. Fult plays more despite being inferior player. All worst lineups say same thing - Fultz is member of all of them, DJ is member of all the best.

I won't even go into whole Bamba thing. IT's like wasting time to develop Andrew Nicholson into Olympic sprinter. "but but but wingspan, potential" yea , he can use that wingspan to learn to fly, it will take less time than learning how to play basketball at this level.

Without wishing to interfere in that discussion, but i read that Murray thing a lot from you lately. I can remember that good, but it was already at a time were Murray was much more valuable than AG. Its like saying now, lets trade for Tyler Herro or SGA. Wont happen.
I mean i liked Murray since i saw him for the Canadian national team at the Pan American Games in 2015 as a Highschooler. I watched some games because of Nicholson, but Murray was the best player on the floor & dropped 22 Points vs the US in the final quarter & OT as a kid vs. adults. He was always a bigger asset than everything we had, except a hypothetical injury free version of Isaac.

There was never a window for a AG for Murray trade in my opinion.
The Malik Beasley trade ideas were posted here by several members too.
Vuc for Hayward (+ picks anyway) was never realistic too.
And we had never peaces to get Mitchell past his summerleaque explosion as a rookie. Props if you said that at the draft, but not in 2020.

These are all great trade ideas by you but if you are honest, nothing was realistic.

Re: NCAA Tournament
2
Post#152 » by pepe1991 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:38 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
You're comparing apples and oranges here. He's lightyears ahead of Isaac in terms of offense, but Isaac is the superior defender. Not only that, but most scouts have Bagley as a center longterm in the NBA while Isaac is a 3/4. They are two completely different prospects.

Can we just call it what it is... there is nothing that says small forward about Isaac to me. His defensive contribution has been his rim protection, I haven't seen him move his feet much on the perimeter. Offensively it isn't even close, he doesn't have the game of an SF. Ultimately I guess it doesn't really matter, I just have been hoping he could up his calories and be the center of the future because I think he'd thrive there. Even though I feel this way I still love your sig lol.

Haha appreciate it bro. At this stage you are right. His game offensively atm is too raw to play SF. I’m not ready to pigeonhole him into anything yet though and say that he can’t/won’t be this or he definitely will play this position. I really want to see him get a summer with Forcier and start developing his game. It’s really going to depend on him developing a much tighter handle and gaining confidence in his shot at the NBA level.

If he can do those things and add the off the dribble dimension to his game I think it’s definitely a possibility he could become a 3/4 hybrid guy with AG. I’m not sure how long that will take though. The game is going to have to slow down for him offensively and he is going to have to add to it before we know for sure. I’m open to 3/4/5 right now.


Given his asthma problems would it be easier to him to play big man over SF in general? Big guys tend to move less ,but game is more physical for them. Jimmy Butler, at SF , in 2016 lead whole league in average distance per game ,2,76 miles.

I never saw anything SF-ish in isaac comming from college, in nba it just got more clear. Ofc over years he could and should develop ballhandling and shooting off dribble, passing . But that skillset will be "force fed" to him, not something he is comfortable doing naturally.

Because of that i'm hesitateing about idea of drafting another big man. How many min you can distribute to that guy, Isaac and Gordon and make it work and shouldn't lottery be way how to build your starting 5 ,than figure bench later instad of adding players that don't fit ? ( Hello 2014 all over again when Oladipo got Payton to ruin him ).

Maybe best Magic solution is to trade Gordon for guard. Example- Jamal Murray and Nuggets pick for Gordon and salary dump to make it work. ( Murray is easly one of most talented young guards in nba that nobody pays notice because he plays in Denver , guy is 20 and averaging 16,4 ppg on 58% TS)

wanted it 2 and half years ago.
It wasn't that outrages trade idea really. Gordon come off 17,6 ppg season, at age of 21, Murray 16,7 ppg at age of 20.

I never bought idea of Isaac playing SF, and in post i talked about it. So i wanted to trade Gordon for young guard with star potential. In hindsight it was missed opportunity, as Gordon's value over year dipped, and Magic never found star guard.

Man i'm crying for good shooter for 4 years now

Denver was never going to trade Murray, he's had allstar potential since he came in the league.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

Would be interested to see what type of HCs we would be linked to. What’s attractive to this Orlando Roster?

I'm guessing Clifford has one of the least hottest seats in the entire NBA.

I get the vibes ownership is thrilled with the job he and his staff have done so far.

Oh absolutely they’re pumped he’s been able to milk every ounce of 8th seed for them. It’ll be interesting to see what happens this offseason and if they give him any help in terms of offensive players.

He signed a 4 year deal, so he'll likely be here 2 more years.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Skybox]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

[zaymon]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

Voice of reason. Its not smart to write off a front office before they use their assets. Miami was dumpster fire before they signed Butler.

[thelead]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

Voice of reason. Its not smart to write off a front office before they use their assets. Miami was dumpster fire before they signed Butler.

Where's our cap space to sign our Jimmy Butler? How are we supposed to land our star?

This front office also wouldn't likely draft a talented basketball player like Tyler Herro because he has a below average wingspan.

[tiderulz]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

but for small market teams, that is essential. that draft where we ended up with Frazier and Jackson, replicating skills we already had and ignoring needs. they still havent addressed the teams lack of shooting and only added 1 play maker in Fultz. And i agree that they have added "pieces" but it remains to be seen if they are really viewed as "assets". I dont think Aminu wold garner much if anything around the league if we tried to trade him. we would have to attach something to him to move him. Bamba, we would be lucky to get a late 1st round pick, if a 1st at all (meanwhile, SGA, Bridges, Sexton, look like better NBA players, let alone moving up in the draft) and taking Bamba while Vuc is balling out with likely odds they would re-sign him. the year before, they traded the 25 and 2nd round picks because "the draft flattened out", we could have had Bam, Kuzma, Derrick White, Dillon Brooks, Monte Morris, Josh Hart. plenty of players to take a flyer on.

they are piddling along with their game plan from 15 years ago, make little mistakes, make little moves, make the playoffs. unless something major changes, the Magic will never be a contender

[pepe1991]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

Voice of reason. Its not smart to write off a front office before they use their assets. Miami was dumpster fire before they signed Butler.

Lol what?

2015-16 : 48-34
16-17: 41-41
17-18: 44- 38
18-19 : 39-43

When execlly they were dumpster fire?



As for Welmtan and Hammond, what execlly they did to sell fanbase into idea they have any clue what they are doing?
Team is capped out for next 3 years. Probably more, because they already have $76M commited to 6 players in 2021-22.

That money does not include Fultz, MCW, DJ, Isaac, Evan, Okeke, 2020 nor 2021 pick. Basically capped out next 4 years anyway. Especially because salary will be declined for all teams in next few years.

So over 3 years they menaged to:
trade Payton for nothing ( nothing for nothing still equaled nothing)
miss on every single second round pick they took on
not tank solid enough for 2018 where they missed on 2 franchize altering talents
overpay Gordon
take on Okeke while guy had ACL tear
waste MLE on Aminu
waste money on Jonathan Simmons


So only positive things they menaged to do is keep Vuc, find solid coach and in 2017 draft Isaac. That's literally it.
Everything else is stuffing roster with incapable basketball players, having no flexibility nor talent to get any better.
People talk about coaches that have ceiling, this two guys are biggest Magic ceiling. They took on Raptors and Bucks and both teams never made significant leaps WITH them, but after them, as new front offices simply had more guts to make major moves.
They don't. They are defensive boxer who never got K.Oed, but lost all fights via judge decision. because he didn't land any punches.

I won't even go into their fundamentally flawed logic of drafting, being suckers for long limbs, thining 7 foot center without basketball skills is lottery pick worth 6# selection, having no guards worth mentioning or thinking how "defense wins championships" while every second playoff game teams score over 115 points , mostly by shooting. While they never got single shooter worth talking about on this damn roster.

[OrlChamps2030]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

Voice of reason. Its not smart to write off a front office before they use their assets. Miami was dumpster fire before they signed Butler.

Where's our cap space to sign our Jimmy Butler? How are we supposed to land our star?

This front office also wouldn't likely draft a talented basketball player like Tyler Herro because he has a below average wingspan.

One organization has Pat Riley running the show, the other organization has Alex Martins running the show ..

[J the Drafter]

A situation where Bamba has the muscle and stamina to utilize his strengths, Isaac is a two-way wing, Fultz can shoot and consistently plays aggressively, and Gordon has refined his scoring skills to the point where he’s a dependable isolation option is hardly unreasonable. Bamba has put on muscle and has been working on his stamina. Isaac has shown development as a two-way player. Fultz has shown improvement on his outside shot, and Gordon has consistently improved his skills since joining the league. That, along with other small signings of the “don’t move the needle” type, would lead to an improved record. The FO has taken that approach because that’s how you build a sustainable quality team. Time and patience, not a blockbuster trade.

[thelead]

A situation where Bamba has the muscle and stamina to utilize his strengths, Isaac is a two-way wing, Fultz can shoot and consistently plays aggressively, and Gordon has refined his scoring skills to the point where he’s a dependable isolation option is hardly unreasonable. Bamba has put on muscle and has been working on his stamina. Isaac has shown development as a two-way player. Fultz has shown improvement on his outside shot, and Gordon has consistently improved his skills since joining the league. That, along with other small signings of the “don’t move the needle” type, would lead to an improved record. The FO has taken that approach because that’s how you build a sustainable quality team. Time and patience, not a blockbuster trade.

or... that's how you become the kings when the players you draft don't work out for whatever reasons.

[Skybox]

Miami is a continuous bold dumpster fire. They are total opposite of patient and methodical. They make their share of mistakes but, somehow by force of will and reputation, come out blazing. That's a FUN organization to be a fan because you know something is cooking at all times (like HOU too). It's not the only successful approach but it's crazy and appealing to the kind of idiots who spend time everyday debating every NBA player/trade/FO etc (that's us z0 but MIA is also a ghost town when they're not winning or at least intriguing.

I'm able to defend WeHam to a point...but something bold and courageous needs to come now (or last summer) for me to credit their wisdom. Drafting Okeke (way later than were he not injured) could be a big win. Fultz could still be a huge win. I don't think Bamba doesn't have hope (when Vuc gets out of the way) he may not be Gobert with a 3pt shot, but he could still be a difference maker. When Isaac is healthy, he a big surprise win too-I don't think anybody had him pegged for DPOY potential.

I'm not crazy, they're not ALL going to pan out.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I believe WeHam have done a good patient job of building a "collection of pieces" however mismatched. I don't feel they've made mistakes beyond missed opportunities in the draft (like everyone). BUT, the real measure of their success will be - can they boldly move from asset accumulation mode to turning some of them into a single piece that works with the ones we keep. That transition could be one big trade or a couple of medium-big trades. Clifford is doing an admirable job of keeping the team competitive and interesting, if limited. A new, bolder coach would likely fit with the transition...I'm, of course, saying what I hope to be true but it would make sense. WeHam have demonstrated that they are infuriatingly patient and level-headed. If there is a big, risky, opportunistic move this offseason, they will look very strong in my eyes...I'm as impatient as anyone but I admire patience in others. We'll see...this is not an easy job.

Voice of reason. Its not smart to write off a front office before they use their assets. Miami was dumpster fire before they signed Butler.

Lol what?

2015-16 : 48-34
16-17: 41-41
17-18: 44- 38
18-19 : 39-43

When execlly they were dumpster fire?



As for Welmtan and Hammond, what execlly they did to sell fanbase into idea they have any clue what they are doing?
Team is capped out for next 3 years. Probably more, because they already have $76M commited to 6 players in 2021-22.

That money does not include Fultz, MCW, DJ, Isaac, Evan, Okeke, 2020 nor 2021 pick. Basically capped out next 4 years anyway. Especially because salary will be declined for all teams in next few years.

So over 3 years they menaged to:
trade Payton for nothing ( nothing for nothing still equaled nothing)
miss on every single second round pick they took on
not tank solid enough for 2018 where they missed on 2 franchize altering talents
overpay Gordon
take on Okeke while guy had ACL tear
waste MLE on Aminu
waste money on Jonathan Simmons


So only positive things they menaged to do is keep Vuc, find solid coach and in 2017 draft Isaac. That's literally it.
Everything else is stuffing roster with incapable basketball players, having no flexibility nor talent to get any better.
People talk about coaches that have ceiling, this two guys are biggest Magic ceiling. They took on Raptors and Bucks and both teams never made significant leaps WITH them, but after them, as new front offices simply had more guts to make major moves.
They don't. They are defensive boxer who never got K.Oed, but lost all fights via judge decision. because he didn't land any punches.

I won't even go into their fundamentally flawed logic of drafting, being suckers for long limbs, thining 7 foot center without basketball skills is lottery pick worth 6# selection, having no guards worth mentioning or thinking how "defense wins championships" while every second playoff game teams score over 115 points , mostly by shooting. While they never got single shooter worth talking about on this damn roster.

god lord fact bomb !!

[VFX]

A situation where Bamba has the muscle and stamina to utilize his strengths, Isaac is a two-way wing, Fultz can shoot and consistently plays aggressively, and Gordon has refined his scoring skills to the point where he’s a dependable isolation option is hardly unreasonable. Bamba has put on muscle and has been working on his stamina. Isaac has shown development as a two-way player. Fultz has shown improvement on his outside shot, and Gordon has consistently improved his skills since joining the league. That, along with other small signings of the “don’t move the needle” type, would lead to an improved record. The FO has taken that approach because that’s how you build a sustainable quality team. Time and patience, not a blockbuster trade.

Sure, If your goal is to be a first round exit team in the weak East.

Also, you can stop with justifying Gordon as an iso option for Orlando moving forward. He’s now been in the league going on 7 years and will likely be traded soon. He is what he is.

[tiderulz]

Miami is a continuous bold dumpster fire. They are total opposite of patient and methodical. They make their share of mistakes but, somehow by force of will and reputation, come out blazing. That's a FUN organization to be a fan because you know something is cooking at all times (like HOU too). It's not the only successful approach but it's crazy and appealing to the kind of idiots who spend time everyday debating every NBA player/trade/FO etc (that's us z0 but MIA is also a ghost town when they're not winning or at least intriguing.

I'm able to defend WeHam to a point...but something bold and courageous needs to come now (or last summer) for me to credit their wisdom. Drafting Okeke (way later than were he not injured) could be a big win. Fultz could still be a huge win. I don't think Bamba doesn't have hope (when Vuc gets out of the way) he may not be Gobert with a 3pt shot, but he could still be a difference maker. When Isaac is healthy, he a big surprise win too-I don't think anybody had him pegged for DPOY potential.

I'm not crazy, they're not ALL going to pan out.

they have good scouting, good coaching and player development. and they pivot to succeed. they win with a drafted player (Wade) trade for Shaq and use rest of the pieces for a title. They pivot to Super team, then they rebuild with draft and development and grab another star player. consistent theme seems to be their scouting, drafting, development.