Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[VFX]

Don't think anyone is arguing that (I could be wrong). Just using him as a go-to guy is dumb to do again when every year he isn't anything special offensively, and we stink as a team. But you're right, it is what it is and we just gotta watch it for another year.

I don’t remember anyone actually stating “We are building around Vuc”. However, using him as the go-to offensive option for 6 years straight isn’t smart either.

Its not but who is the better option we have?

You’re telling me that in 7 years they haven’t found or developed an offense that’s incapable of not being reliant on Vucevic. I agree that he was the most reliable option, but that’s exactly why this franchise has been directionless / talentless since the Dwight years.

[fendilim]

I don’t remember anyone actually stating “We are building around Vuc”. However, using him as the go-to offensive option for 6 years straight isn’t smart either.

Its not but who is the better option we have?

You’re telling me that in 7 years they haven’t found or developed an offense that’s incapable of not being reliant on Vucevic. I agree that he was the most reliable option, but that’s exactly why this franchise has been talentless since the Dwight years.

We did, but Hennigan panicked.


Now, who/what do we have to give to get a more reliable option? Hennigan left the team in bad shape. He mismanaged our assets. Weltman and Hammond are taking it slow this time.

Until we start winning, I don't think our players will really have much value around the league.

[Knightro]

Then they are as inept as they appear to be.
Nobody believes Orlando is actually competing with this roster.

It all depends on what your definition of competing is.

They aren’t a title contender obviously. Hell, they might not even be a playoff team, but the plan is to win as many games as possible and try and make the playoffs.

[OrlChamps2030]

Tobias Harris the centerpiece in potential Jimmy Butler trade lmao. The basketball Gods making us pay for back to back #1 picks in the 90s lol.

[PennytoShaq]

It’s not just about relying on Vuc as it is that running the offense through a big guy is pretty common practice still. The difference is that we see it done by really athletic bigs so now its more pick and roll lobs and less post up offense. The big guy still plays a key part in initializing offense for almost every team besides Golden State, and those bigs still get super easy short range shots off of rolls.

What we are actually seeing is not archaic offense as much as a slow big who has an old school game. Case in point, the offense looks a lot different when Bamba is in at 5. Even last night when he played next to Vuc, Clifford had both guys in the corners on offense at times. That’s ironically a more modern look than when Vuc plays the 5 with Bamba sitting out.

I don’t think the franchise is talentless now. Bamba has real skills, I love Isaac’s elite defense and Gordon may very well play efficient ball this year which should get him an all-star birth.

Now what we need is to flesh this all out with a PG and a go to scorer type at SG who can iso when needed and make key shots. It just won’t all happen over night, but it very well could look a lot better by next season. I think we get the PG bare minimum next year. Also Vuc will be gone, and Briscoe could show that he deserves to be the #2 PG.

The key thing to watch is the development of that 3rd string bench bunch. They are playing with real intent out there. We could possibly resign Ross for a fair price and have a real athletic and defensive bench of Briscoe/Ross/Frazier/(maybe Jackson next year, lets see) and Birch. I actually like that bench a lot after a year of G league and spot NBA minutes.

I think that our trade pieces are Fournier/Vuc and Simmons and DJ. Those are the guys who need to go (Evan is debatable) and all are on very tradable salaries.

[VFX]

Then they are as inept as they appear to be.
Nobody believes Orlando is actually competing with this roster.

It all depends on what your definition of competing is.

They aren’t a title contender obviously. Hell, they might not even be a playoff team, but the plan is to win as many games as possible and try and make the playoffs.

Which is a treadmill mentality, especially when it’s obvious there is a lack of talent on the roster. They weren’t one, two, or even three pieces away from legitimate title contention. That’s the best goal right?

We are no longer in a “evaluation year” per WeltHam, so if that was another term for “tanking” they should still be in “evaluation” phase and asset collecting.

[OrlChamps2030]

Then they are as inept as they appear to be.
Nobody believes Orlando is actually competing with this roster.

It all depends on what your definition of competing is.

They aren’t a title contender obviously. Hell, they might not even be a playoff team, but the plan is to win as many games as possible and try and make the playoffs.

Yawn. Franchise committed to mediocrity. Just more of the same

[YosemiteSam]

I don’t know what you guys have been watching these last 7 years but that wasn’t treadmilling or mediocrity. Detroit and Charlotte are that. We just sucked.

[rcklsscognition]

I think Bamba is going to become this generation's Hakeem. I know that it is far off, but by his next contract, he's going to be putting up Hakeem numbers on both ends of the court. Hakeem came into the league at 22 and dropped 20/12/3 I think. Bamba has the fluidity, the shot, the handle, the size. He just needs some time to put on weight and be taught the game.

[yoyojw17]

Then they are as inept as they appear to be.
Nobody believes Orlando is actually competing with this roster.

It all depends on what your definition of competing is.

They aren’t a title contender obviously. Hell, they might not even be a playoff team, but the plan is to win as many games as possible and try and make the playoffs.

Competing for most and for me at least is... "do they show up and give maximum effort every night and not be a doormat team"... plus shoot... every nba team should be at least competing with the maximum effort part. the doormat part is dependent on talent and team play.

and ... yes... i believe that this team will compete this year. If the adjustments made by the team and motivation/effort/outlook of the players are real.... then i would expect them to.

[MagicFan101]

Tobias Harris the centerpiece in potential Jimmy Butler trade lmao. The basketball Gods making us pay for back to back #1 picks in the 90s lol.

Yet another team who sees Harris up close and realizes he is fools gold.

Butler wants to go to LA (+ a couple other places). That is the reason for these discussion, not a desire to acquire Harris in Minny.

For this idea to make sense you would need to find a disgruntled star during the time we had Harris who was publicly asking for a trade to Orlando.

Also, when we traded Harris is was on a fresh new long term contract. Right now he is a walking $15M expiring deal. Swapping Dieng for Harris is a salary dump not a talent grab.

What does ignoring facts and thinking we missed on a star years ago do? It’s false and in the distant past. Move on.

[yoyojw17]

Then they are as inept as they appear to be.
Nobody believes Orlando is actually competing with this roster.

It all depends on what your definition of competing is.

They aren’t a title contender obviously. Hell, they might not even be a playoff team, but the plan is to win as many games as possible and try and make the playoffs.

Yawn. Franchise committed to mediocrity. Just more of the same

It can't be expected for a team to just go from 0 to 60 real real quick. People make it seem as though... "as long as players x and y are on the team... and until we get players a and b" that we will never be anything. This team has been through a lot in the last couple years of trying to figure things out. And that's part of the process.

Development, maturation, just plain growing up are all part of the process. And if that leads to "Mediocre" for a bit... then so it is. From what i am seeing and hearing.... this team is really taking to Steve Clifford... soaking in the criticisms and making the changes. I believe that the vision of the FO will be realized this season and we would finally take that big step forward as a team. And as that happens they will continue to fill in those gaps and round us out.

[fendilim]

I think Bamba is going to become this generation's Hakeem. I know that it is far off, but by his next contract, he's going to be putting up Hakeem numbers on both ends of the court. Hakeem came into the league at 22 and dropped 20/12/3 I think. Bamba has the fluidity, the shot, the handle, the size. He just needs some time to put on weight and be taught the game.

If there is someone close to Hakeem, its Embiid. Imo.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Tobias Harris the centerpiece in potential Jimmy Butler trade lmao. The basketball Gods making us pay for back to back #1 picks in the 90s lol.

Yet another team who sees Harris up close and realizes he is fools gold.

Butler wants to go to LA (+ a couple other places). That is the reason for these discussion, not a desire to acquire Harris in Minny.

For this idea to make sense you would need to find a disgruntled star during the time we had Harris who was publicly asking for a trade to Orlando.

Also, when we traded Harris is was on a fresh new long term contract. Right now he is a walking $15M expiring deal. Swapping Dieng for Harris is a salary dump not a talent grab.

What does ignoring facts and thinking we missed on a star years ago do? It’s false and in the distant past. Move on.

Agree. The only star we had after the Dwight years was Oladipo but there is no one who could have predicted his All star trajectory while he was in Orlando.

Everyone we have had were solid complimentary players. Finding that elusive star has been the struggle. However Bamba is showing potential to be that star we have so long needed in Orlando.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I think Bamba is going to become this generation's Hakeem. I know that it is far off, but by his next contract, he's going to be putting up Hakeem numbers on both ends of the court. Hakeem came into the league at 22 and dropped 20/12/3 I think. Bamba has the fluidity, the shot, the handle, the size. He just needs some time to put on weight and be taught the game.

If there is someone close to Hakeem, its Embiid. Imo.

Agree but Bamba also has the potential to get to that level. I say that because Bamba is a cerebral and intelligent dude. I would say 90% of life is how we process things and assimilate and have a work ethic to be the best. Everything I have seen and read from Bamba says he has all the brains and drive to get better.

[VFX]

I don’t think the franchise is talentless now. Bamba has real skills, I love Isaac’s elite defense and Gordon may very well play efficient ball this year which should get him an all-star birth.

Now what we need is to flesh this all out with a PG and a go to scorer type at SG who can iso when needed and make key shots. It just won’t all happen over night, but it very well could look a lot better by next season. I think we get the PG bare minimum next year. Also Vuc will be gone, and Briscoe could show that he deserves to be the #2 PG.

I think that our trade pieces are Fournier/Vuc and Simmons and DJ. Those are the guys who need to go (Evan is debatable) and all are on very tradable salaries.

No doubt they have added probably the most talent Orlando has had in a decade with Isaac, Bamba, and AG. I agree that the roster is now a pg and possibly a wing should BIG not work (not saying it definitely won’t).

I think the key thing to watch would be if BIG can be effective offensively. Also, Orlando needs to find a dynamic lead guard (via draft or trade somehow) that makes sense with the projection of the roster’s future.

I agree that Vuc/Simmons/DJ are the likeliest candidates for trade with Fournier being a little less likely.

This will all probably take another season or two before it all pans out.

[Knightro]

We can debate the merits of Weltman/Hammond's plan all we want, but no one should be surprised at what they're doing given the moves they've made.

They hired a win now coach and didn't get rid of any of their veterans from a year ago basically.

Steve Clifford isn't a tanking coach. He's going to lean on Augustin, Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons and Ross hard and try and squeeze every bit of blood from this stone as he possibly can.

[VFX]

We can debate the merits of Weltman/Hammond's plan all we want, but no one should be surprised at what they're doing given the moves they've made.

They hired a win now coach and didn't get rid of any of their veterans from a year ago basically.

Steve Clifford isn't a tanking coach. He's going to lean on Augustin, Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons and Ross hard and try and squeeze every bit of blood from this stone as he possibly can.

Does anyone think this is a good plan?

[MagicFan101]

I really believe BIG is a force for the future. Only the health of Isaac and Bamba scares me. Long bigs struggle with injuries and one often leads to another and another and another.

We need a star, playing guard. No doubt. But being one piece away is something we haven’t been able to say in a long time.

Like the Isaac or Bamba picks or not, you have to at least feel better today than a year ago.

[PennytoShaq]

I don’t think the franchise is talentless now. Bamba has real skills, I love Isaac’s elite defense and Gordon may very well play efficient ball this year which should get him an all-star birth.

Now what we need is to flesh this all out with a PG and a go to scorer type at SG who can iso when needed and make key shots. It just won’t all happen over night, but it very well could look a lot better by next season. I think we get the PG bare minimum next year. Also Vuc will be gone, and Briscoe could show that he deserves to be the #2 PG.

I think that our trade pieces are Fournier/Vuc and Simmons and DJ. Those are the guys who need to go (Evan is debatable) and all are on very tradable salaries.

No doubt they have added probably the most talent Orlando has had in a decade with Isaac, Bamba, and AG. I agree that the roster is now a pg and possibly a wing should BIG not work (not saying it definitely won’t).

I think the key thing to watch would be if BIG can be effective offensively. Also, Orlando needs to find a dynamic lead guard (via draft or trade somehow) that makes sense with the projection of the roster’s future.

I agree that Vuc/Simmons/DJ are the likeliest candidates for trade with Fournier being a little less likely.

This will all probably take another season or two before it all pans out.

Yes. Exactly. And that’s all i have ever been saying mainly. We have to be a little more patient with stuff like Vuc starting, etc but there is an actual plan in place now.