Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

[basketballRob]

Isaac has a Instagram where he'll interview people every week, I think on Wednesday. This week he's interviewing Mo. @jjudhnation

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

Looking at the promo for Isaac's interview with Bamba and when they stand next to each other they're the same exact size. Maybe Isaac is 7' now.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

Also Pepe: copy pasts link where people compared him with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George

But ofc you missed that part

Just to get things clear and clear this " nobody ever said it " crap that is going on between Skin, you and few others

So nobody ever said it or argued it ?

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1753556&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF

This is just 8 months old debate.

In thread named " DO you think AG will emerge as breakout star " from 2017, among 126 people who voted, half of them said - yes.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1610984&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=100

This thread also has A LOT of Paul George name, data and stats drops in it .

Early 2017, people still claim Gordon is turning allstar witihn next year or so
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1509379&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=20


And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

Yet here you are, getting upset because i said something that has been repeated over and over and over again for last 5 years. And you accuse me of lying . This last thread ,filled with George, Kawhi, Griffin , Marion comparisons (that i refered to) was made year before i even joined forum .

[MagicStarwipe]

Sorry, but this forum sucks now lol.

Please don’t curse for no reason. Thanks - Knightro

[pepe1991]

Sorry, but this forum sucks now lol.

yea it does, it lacks topics like " Elfrid Payton is championship point guard" good old days

I can't even get good laugh any more

[MagicStarwipe]

hahahaha

[basketballRob]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

Also Pepe: copy pasts link where people compared him with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George

But ofc you missed that part

Just to get things clear and clear this " nobody ever said it " crap that is going on between Skin, you and few others

So nobody ever said it or argued it ?

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1753556&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF

This is just 8 months old debate.

In thread named " DO you think AG will emerge as breakout star " from 2017, among 126 people who voted, half of them said - yes.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1610984&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=100

This thread also has A LOT of Paul George name, data and stats drops in it .

Early 2017, people still claim Gordon is turning allstar witihn next year or so
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1509379&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=20


And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

Yet here you are, getting upset because i said something that has been repeated over and over and over again for last 5 years. And you accuse me of lying . This last thread ,filled with George, Kawhi, Griffin , Marion comparisons (that i refered to) was made year before i even joined forum .

I was terrified that he was going to be the next Joe Alexander. AG was the player most likely to be a bust nearly the whole first year, according to fans.

I do think he'll make an allstar team probably in two years. I think Clifford gave him the goal of improving his 3 pt shooting like he did Kemba. Kemba improved his 3 pt shooting around 60 pts in his last 4 years compared to his first 4. I remember him saying Cliff told him if he improved that he'd be an allstar.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

I read a lot of "Shawn Marion" answers. Age matched, their first season averages were not far off:
Player Comparison Finder: Shawn Marion (through 2001-02) vs. Aaron Gordon (through 2018-19)

[pepe1991]

And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

I read a lot of "Shawn Marion" answers. Age matched, their first season averages were not far off:
Player Comparison Finder: Shawn Marion (through 2001-02) vs. Aaron Gordon (through 2018-19)

It was objective "close to best outcome" comp.
However, look at Marion's second year.
17 ppg ,10,7 rpg, 2,0 apg, 1,7 spg , 1,0 bpg
.197 win share/48
1,0 OBPM
3,2 DBPM
4,2 BPM total

Guy's impact on a game was simply greater than Gordon's is to this date.
Also, relative to a time when he played that season ( 2001-2002) his eFG of 49% was almost 2% above league average for that season.
Only time ever when Gordon was above league's average in efficiency was in his second season ( 50,9% eFG, league's average was 50,2%)

Where Gordon still can develop into Marion type player, he seems to have zero desire to do so.
Knightro ( i think ) once really well explained how Gordon probably views himself as player like George or Kawhi ( or whoever star at SF ) and that's reason why he prefers fadeaway jumpers, shooting off dribble and spent time in offseason working on everything that he really isn't best equipped to do.

Maybe in different system Gordon could become star player, maybe with better point guard his game would look different, but lot of decisions like playing style, shot chart, never using athletics to draw fouls , jumpshots at expense of avoiding contact are made by him in his effort to be player he wants to be. It's pretty crazy that somebody who is 6'9, has probably 42 -44 inch vert never actually dunked some "oh my God he killed that guy" type of poster, not because he does not have strenght or ability, but for pure reason he simply refuses to attack rim like he could, given all tools he has.

To me it's most annoying part of his game. Guy draws 1,5 shooting foul per game. In league where unathletic guys like Gallinari draw 6 FTA a game easly. In league where toothpick like Ingram draws 5,6 easly. Where Doncic in rookie year draw almost 7 a game.

By just using simple math, if he scores like he does now, but draws extra 3 FTA a game and actually knocks them at better rate than career 70%, his TS% would go up for like 3%. Instad, this offseason he works on mid range game

[Ducklett]

Sorry, but this forum sucks now lol.

Maybe the forum is good are we are the ones that suck

[fendilim]

And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

I read a lot of "Shawn Marion" answers. Age matched, their first season averages were not far off:
Player Comparison Finder: Shawn Marion (through 2001-02) vs. Aaron Gordon (through 2018-19)

It was objective "close to best outcome" comp.
However, look at Marion's second year.
17 ppg ,10,7 rpg, 2,0 apg, 1,7 spg , 1,0 bpg
.197 win share/48
1,0 OBPM
3,2 DBPM
4,2 BPM total

Guy's impact on a game was simply greater than Gordon's is to this date.
Also, relative to a time when he played that season ( 2001-2002) his eFG of 49% was almost 2% above league average for that season.
Only time ever when Gordon was above league's average in efficiency was in his second season ( 50,9% eFG, league's average was 50,2%)

Where Gordon still can develop into Marion type player, he seems to have zero desire to do so.
Knightro ( i think ) once really well explained how Gordon probably views himself as player like George or Kawhi ( or whoever star at SF ) and that's reason why he prefers fadeaway jumpers, shooting off dribble and spent time in offseason working on everything that he really isn't best equipped to do.

Maybe in different system Gordon could become star player, maybe with better point guard his game would look different, but lot of decisions like playing style, shot chart, never using athletics to draw fouls , jumpshots at expense of avoiding contact are made by him in his effort to be player he wants to be. It's pretty crazy that somebody who is 6'9, has probably 42 -44 inch vert never actually dunked some "oh my God he killed that guy" type of poster, not because he does not have strenght or ability, but for pure reason he simply refuses to attack rim like he could, given all tools he has.

To me it's most annoying part of his game. Guy draws 1,5 shooting foul per game. In league where unathletic guys like Gallinari draw 6 FTA a game easly. In league where toothpick like Ingram draws 5,6 easly. Where Doncic in rookie year draw almost 7 a game.

By just using simple math, if he scores like he does now, but draws extra 3 FTA a game and actually knocks them at better rate than career 70%, his TS% would go up for like 3%. Instad, this offseason he works on mid range game

I for one expected Gordon to be in the Marion/Faried clone. But I think its becoming more apparent now that he isn't close to those guys. He is better than Faried, but he is not anywhere close to Marion. Raw numbers even suggests Marion is a much better player, and that is considering Marion even played in a slower game speed era, compared to how the game is played now.

Part of my frustration is the lack of improvement in Gordon's game from year 1 to year 5. Raw numbers suggests that he is averaging and shooting better percentage wise, but his shot creation have not improved, for someone who has been working on that since Year 1, I would expect at least those numbers to improve dramatically from year 1 to year 5.

Gordon's progress as a better shooter, yes. A better scorer? No.

[Instincts]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

Also Pepe: copy pasts link where people compared him with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George

But ofc you missed that part

Just to get things clear and clear this " nobody ever said it " crap that is going on between Skin, you and few others

So nobody ever said it or argued it ?

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1753556&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF

This is just 8 months old debate.

In thread named " DO you think AG will emerge as breakout star " from 2017, among 126 people who voted, half of them said - yes.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1610984&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=100

This thread also has A LOT of Paul George name, data and stats drops in it .

Early 2017, people still claim Gordon is turning allstar witihn next year or so
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1509379&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=20


And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

Yet here you are, getting upset because i said something that has been repeated over and over and over again for last 5 years. And you accuse me of lying . This last thread ,filled with George, Kawhi, Griffin , Marion comparisons (that i refered to) was made year before i even joined forum .

Not sure of the point here.

You have been consistently too negative on AGs development curve.

I have no issue with the Griffin, Marion, George, Kawhi comparisons. These are similar player types with similar inherent attributes thus help in defining a development ceiling.

I couldn’t be much happier with AGs development, he is prob in the 85% percentile of his highest current possible outcome. Most importantly AG is not done improving, don’t make that mistake again.

I believe most, including yourself have come around to the now real possibility that AG will be an all star at some point in the next few years, that in itself is a big litmus test. How many all star appearances and how much, particularly, his offensive game, shooting, and play making improve from here will directly effect where he tops out within the spectrum of his development curve. But be clear, because of AGs inherent traits, yes which are comparable to Marion, Griffin, George, and Leonard, he still has, like all of them, a high upper range of his development curve.

Simply put, AGs development is steadily increasing and he is still capable of an accelerated jump in the next year or three. Capacity plus conditions are right for the possibility of a break out year = 1st Allstar year. Time will tell. I bet with AG.

[pepe1991]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

Also Pepe: copy pasts link where people compared him with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George

But ofc you missed that part

Just to get things clear and clear this " nobody ever said it " crap that is going on between Skin, you and few others

So nobody ever said it or argued it ?

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1753556&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF

This is just 8 months old debate.

In thread named " DO you think AG will emerge as breakout star " from 2017, among 126 people who voted, half of them said - yes.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1610984&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=100

This thread also has A LOT of Paul George name, data and stats drops in it .

Early 2017, people still claim Gordon is turning allstar witihn next year or so
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1509379&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=20


And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

Yet here you are, getting upset because i said something that has been repeated over and over and over again for last 5 years. And you accuse me of lying . This last thread ,filled with George, Kawhi, Griffin , Marion comparisons (that i refered to) was made year before i even joined forum .

Not sure of the point here.

You have been consistently too negative on AGs development curve.

I have no issue with the Griffin, Marion, George, Kawhi comparisons. These are similar player types with similar inherent attributes thus help in defining a development ceiling.

I couldn’t be much happier with AGs development, he is prob in the 85% percentile of his highest current possible outcome. Most importantly AG is not done improving, don’t make that mistake again.

I believe most, including yourself have come around to the now real possibility that AG will be an all star at some point in the next few years, that in itself is a big litmus test. How many all star appearances and how much, particularly, his offensive game, shooting, and play making improve from here will directly effect where he tops out within the spectrum of his development curve. But be clear, because of AGs inherent traits, yes which are comparable to Marion, Griffin, George, and Leonard, he still has, like all of them, a high upper range of his development curve.

Simply put, AGs development is steadily increasing and he is still capable of an accelerated jump in the next year or three. Capacity plus conditions are right for the possibility of a break out year = 1st Allstar year. Time will tell. I bet with AG.

I'm too negative to point out he is in fact much worst player than Leonard, Marion, George and Blake Griffin are, despite being compared with them all the time.
Their timelines and where they were after 5 years, and where Gordon is after 5 years simply don't hold up .

Maybe you should simply come to grips of reality and accept that he is not as good as you think ? But no, year 6 , still talking about some ambiguous potential that he will " develop in year or three". Literally same thing people said last 5 years. He is , in mind of some people here, favorite for MIP last 5 years. Yet ,after 5 years in nba he is career 12 ppg ,6 rpg player.

Where reality meets dreamland of this forum ? Well probably it will after one day Woj bomb is dropped and he is no longer part of this team, so , by default, same people who are so high on him, will tell you how he is just role player and not big time player ( like they did with Tobias Harris, Oladipo and any other Magic player that was traded).

Whole "allstar" concepct as factor is incredibly flawed , and lot of mediocre players like Paul Millsap and Jeff Teague actually did menage to be part of allstar teams . On other hand, Gordon's comparisons for people here are not some fringe allstars but nba superstars and some of best players in the world like two time finals MVP, DPOY Kawhi Leonard and top 3 in MVP votes ,28 ppg player Paul George.
Along with one of youngest allstars ever- Blake Griffin.

Funniest part about Gordon debates is that 50-60% of forum shares mine opinion on Gordon, yet i always upset posters that go at me, where others say same thing and never get any personal attacks.

Yesterday somebody told me that i'm too negative on Magic young players. Than i figured that in last 15 years Magic produced two allstars drafted by them- Nelson, who was awarded allstar spot because of team success and Dwight, drafted in 2004.

My opinion on Gordon is pretty clear- role player that needs improve efficiency and that will never be anything else but 3rd option on great team. Pretty much same thing i said in 2015 ,2016,2017, 2018 and now.
What changed ? Did he become some uber effective scorer capable of scoring 30 a game on 63% TS and lead team to wins? Nah, he actually scores less than year before, his efficiency saw some growth ,yet still below average for his position and he still isn't really treated as treat- by defense of most nba teams.
Matter of fact common sense is that if Vučević has year where he is hurt, this roster is doomed. So what does it say about Gordon?

[j-ragg]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

snip

I don't have any issue with lofty expectations from years ago. I'm not as high on Isaac, people still make big time comparisons for him. I'm low ish on Bamba, people have high expectations for him as well. Normal for young players imo. But you keep spewing this whole Kawhi and PG thing like people keep saying it's going to happen. Just seems weird. Like if I said continually to you something about how Hezonja is one of the worst top 5 picks ever.... there wouldn't really be a point to it. You had high expectations - he failed to meet certain expectations - you tempered your expectations. Your arguments just seem overly dramatic acting like everyone who supports AG is ready for an MVP year. He's already a good player, he'll keep improving incrementally.

[tiderulz]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

Also Pepe: copy pasts link where people compared him with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George

But ofc you missed that part

Just to get things clear and clear this " nobody ever said it " crap that is going on between Skin, you and few others

So nobody ever said it or argued it ?

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1753556&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF

This is just 8 months old debate.

In thread named " DO you think AG will emerge as breakout star " from 2017, among 126 people who voted, half of them said - yes.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1610984&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=100

This thread also has A LOT of Paul George name, data and stats drops in it .

Early 2017, people still claim Gordon is turning allstar witihn next year or so
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1509379&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=20


And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

Yet here you are, getting upset because i said something that has been repeated over and over and over again for last 5 years. And you accuse me of lying . This last thread ,filled with George, Kawhi, Griffin , Marion comparisons (that i refered to) was made year before i even joined forum .

Not sure of the point here.

You have been consistently too negative on AGs development curve.

I have no issue with the Griffin, Marion, George, Kawhi comparisons. These are similar player types with similar inherent attributes thus help in defining a development ceiling.

I couldn’t be much happier with AGs development, he is prob in the 85% percentile of his highest current possible outcome. Most importantly AG is not done improving, don’t make that mistake again.

I believe most, including yourself have come around to the now real possibility that AG will be an all star at some point in the next few years, that in itself is a big litmus test. How many all star appearances and how much, particularly, his offensive game, shooting, and play making improve from here will directly effect where he tops out within the spectrum of his development curve. But be clear, because of AGs inherent traits, yes which are comparable to Marion, Griffin, George, and Leonard, he still has, like all of them, a high upper range of his development curve.

Simply put, AGs development is steadily increasing and he is still capable of an accelerated jump in the next year or three. Capacity plus conditions are right for the possibility of a break out year = 1st Allstar year. Time will tell. I bet with AG.

I'm not seeing this at all. What exact inherent traits are you referring to?
and historically, a player doesnt have an accelerated jump in years 6-9. they do it somewhere in years 1-4.

as for all-star, you have front court and back court. Embiid, Harris (more known name), Al Horford, Siakam, Markkanen, Griffin, Drummond, Myles Turner, Giannis, Middleton, Collins. he would be fighting all these players for a spot. not a guarantee.

[Ducklett]

If BIG is as low ceiling, low potential as some of you guys truly think (for the record, I don't disagree with a lot of your opinions, but I think the conclusions are totally suspect), why are we pushing playoffs and not tanking?

[Catledge]

I see AG as a stronger, slightly more explosive version of Trevor Ariza. He had a year at age 24 with Houston where he tried to be a shot-creating SF, and he was pretty awful at it (eFG% was .462). He spent a couple of years trying and failing to be that kind of player, but by the time he was 28, he was an elite role player and a solid vet leader with the Wizards. His eFG% jumped to .562 as he figured out and accepted his optimum role, and while that was the most efficient year of his career, he continued to do well in a similar role in Houston for a few years after that.

Last year as a 23-year-old, AG accepted 1.5 less FGAs per game than the year before, and he nudged up his efficiency a little. I think there is a decent chance that he will follow an Ariza-like growth curve, where he doesn't really increase his scoring volume much, but he does increase his efficiency while providing above-average defense on the opponent's best forward. Of course, that growth curve will end at a higher place for AG than it did for Ariza because AG's starting point is higher.

I think this reflects a pretty level-headed degree of optimism.

[fendilim]

If BIG is as low ceiling, low potential as some of you guys truly think (for the record, I don't disagree with a lot of your opinions, but I think the conclusions are totally suspect), why are we pushing playoffs and not tanking?

No one likes losing.

Playoffs = profit.


This is a business after all.

[basketballRob]

Also Pepe: copy pasts link where people compared him with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George

But ofc you missed that part

Just to get things clear and clear this " nobody ever said it " crap that is going on between Skin, you and few others

So nobody ever said it or argued it ?

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1753556&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF

This is just 8 months old debate.

In thread named " DO you think AG will emerge as breakout star " from 2017, among 126 people who voted, half of them said - yes.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1610984&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=100

This thread also has A LOT of Paul George name, data and stats drops in it .

Early 2017, people still claim Gordon is turning allstar witihn next year or so
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1509379&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF&start=20


And finally THE Aaron Gordon thread from 2015
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1376790&hilit=aaron+gordon+SF
and list of things people said here:
-Blake Griffin/Marion hybrid
Kawhi Leonard AND Paul Geroge comparison
- perennial all star

Yet here you are, getting upset because i said something that has been repeated over and over and over again for last 5 years. And you accuse me of lying . This last thread ,filled with George, Kawhi, Griffin , Marion comparisons (that i refered to) was made year before i even joined forum .

Not sure of the point here.

You have been consistently too negative on AGs development curve.

I have no issue with the Griffin, Marion, George, Kawhi comparisons. These are similar player types with similar inherent attributes thus help in defining a development ceiling.

I couldn’t be much happier with AGs development, he is prob in the 85% percentile of his highest current possible outcome. Most importantly AG is not done improving, don’t make that mistake again.

I believe most, including yourself have come around to the now real possibility that AG will be an all star at some point in the next few years, that in itself is a big litmus test. How many all star appearances and how much, particularly, his offensive game, shooting, and play making improve from here will directly effect where he tops out within the spectrum of his development curve. But be clear, because of AGs inherent traits, yes which are comparable to Marion, Griffin, George, and Leonard, he still has, like all of them, a high upper range of his development curve.

Simply put, AGs development is steadily increasing and he is still capable of an accelerated jump in the next year or three. Capacity plus conditions are right for the possibility of a break out year = 1st Allstar year. Time will tell. I bet with AG.

I'm too negative to point out he is in fact much worst player than Leonard, Marion, George and Blake Griffin are, despite being compared with them all the time.
Their timelines and where they were after 5 years, and where Gordon is after 5 years simply don't hold up .

Maybe you should simply come to grips of reality and accept that he is not as good as you think ? But no, year 6 , still talking about some ambiguous potential that he will " develop in year or three". Literally same thing people said last 5 years. He is , in mind of some people here, favorite for MIP last 5 years. Yet ,after 5 years in nba he is career 12 ppg ,6 rpg player.

Where reality meets dreamland of this forum ? Well probably it will after one day Woj bomb is dropped and he is no longer part of this team, so , by default, same people who are so high on him, will tell you how he is just role player and not big time player ( like they did with Tobias Harris, Oladipo and any other Magic player that was traded).

Whole "allstar" concepct as factor is incredibly flawed , and lot of mediocre players like Paul Millsap and Jeff Teague actually did menage to be part of allstar teams . On other hand, Gordon's comparisons for people here are not some fringe allstars but nba superstars and some of best players in the world like two time finals MVP, DPOY Kawhi Leonard and top 3 in MVP votes ,28 ppg player Paul George.
Along with one of youngest allstars ever- Blake Griffin.

Funniest part about Gordon debates is that 50-60% of forum shares mine opinion on Gordon, yet i always upset posters that go at me, where others say same thing and never get any personal attacks.

Yesterday somebody told me that i'm too negative on Magic young players. Than i figured that in last 15 years Magic produced two allstars drafted by them- Nelson, who was awarded allstar spot because of team success and Dwight, drafted in 2004.

My opinion on Gordon is pretty clear- role player that needs improve efficiency and that will never be anything else but 3rd option on great team. Pretty much same thing i said in 2015 ,2016,2017, 2018 and now.
What changed ? Did he become some uber effective scorer capable of scoring 30 a game on 63% TS and lead team to wins? Nah, he actually scores less than year before, his efficiency saw some growth ,yet still below average for his position and he still isn't really treated as treat- by defense of most nba teams.
Matter of fact common sense is that if Vučević has year where he is hurt, this roster is doomed. So what does it say about Gordon?

No one compares players by the number of years they've played, they compare them by age.




Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Ducklett]

Pepe, I don't mean this as a personal attack, but if think AG is as bad as your posts suggest, you should be at the front of the Evan sucks express as my copilot.

As the wise philosopher and lumberjack MechaSion always says: "You can't stop this train".