2025 NBA Draft Thread 2.0

[CarraT]

Man I’m so tired of this argument and comparison.

The only reason the Celtics work at all in this blueprint is because 4/5 and sometimes 5/5 of the players on the floor shoot the basketball well from outside. That’s it. The players that touch the ball can shoot the ball from anywhere.

Tatum, White, and Holiday each averaged 5 assists per game on LOW turnovers. You know who came close to that at all in Orlando? Paolo with 4.8/3 as an A/TO ratio. That’s terrible and indicates he’s not the same kind of player to be a “hub” generating offense off the dribble for others.

“Wing-hub system” is just another way of saying “we don’t have guards on offense that create for others consistently”. It’s just a convenient way of shifting roles around, theoretically in your mind, and labeling them to make you feel better about lack of creation from positions that usually provide it.

You can call the system whatever you want. Come up with any name that makes you feel better about bottom ranked offense with little outside creation off the pass.

Saying “you don’t need a heliocentric guard” is semantics. You can define that term to mean playmaking (pass first) or scoring off the dribble on high volume to whichever way you see fit in your mind. The bottom line is that having that player opens up the floor for Franz and Paolo to get easier buckets in space, which is their entire job based on their skillsets.

He just came up with this bull to justify AB having so bad Assist numbers but still be the „PGOTF“.
But even if Paolo and Franz would be Tatum/Luka like Playmakers (which they are not), AB is still a super bad fit here because, as he claims, you still need to complement them with shooting, shooting, shooting. Which is the worst part of ABs game.

I stopped when you said that Franz and Paolo can't be playmakers like Tatum.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

Which isn’t even anywhere written in my post

[Fortune Teller]

Explaining repeatedly what a wing-hub offense is or is supposed to be is not persuasive when the offense is near the bottom of the league. Who cares what the vision is, it's not working. And it got worse in 24-25 when they added a shooter ("gravity") in KCP. He was supposed to come here and add spacing but he regressed and got run out of town.

Jeff has been in charge for more than 8 years and we've been bottom-10 in offense every single year, so if this is his vision why should we trust it? Seriously, how is this no-PG thing working out? Paolo is a turnover machine and Franz is starting to shoot threes like Fultz, and that's the hub of your offense? Seems less like vision and more like years of prioritizing athleticism over skill has caught up to Jeff.

[eyriq]

Explaining repeatedly what a wing-hub offense is or is supposed to be is not persuasive when the offense is near the bottom of the league. Who cares what the vision is, it's not working. And it got worse in 24-25 when they added a shooter ("gravity") in KCP. He was supposed to come here and add spacing but he regressed and got run out of town.

Jeff has been in charge for more than 8 years and we've been bottom-10 in offense every single year, so if this is his vision why should we trust it? Seriously, how is this no-PG thing working out? Paolo is a turnover machine and Franz is starting to shoot threes like Fultz, and that's the hub of your offense? Seems less like vision and more like years of prioritizing athleticism over skill has caught up to Jeff.

You're not persuaded because you've misread what this team is building from the start. You ignore context, timelines, and nuance... then act confused when reality doesn’t match your strawman expectations.

Jeff didn’t start with a clean slate. He inherited the flawed Hennigan roster, polished it into a playoff team, then made the call to blow it up and rebuild when it was clear to ownership the build was a failure. The first three years were a full teardown and rebuild. The last two? Focused on growth and evaluation. Only now, with Paolo and Franz entering their prime contracts, are we shifting into a win-now phase.

And yes, the offense has struggled... because our highest-usage players have been young and hurt. You don’t build elite offenses around 21- and 22-year-olds. That’s not a system failure, that’s just how development works.

This upcoming season is when expectations shift. Franz enters his max extension, Suggs his near-max, and Paolo’s is coming. Now is the time to start holding them to performance standards. But pretending this team should’ve already been elite, and using that to discredit the vision, is just ignorant.

[yoyojw17]

Explaining repeatedly what a wing-hub offense is or is supposed to be is not persuasive when the offense is near the bottom of the league. Who cares what the vision is, it's not working. And it got worse in 24-25 when they added a shooter ("gravity") in KCP. He was supposed to come here and add spacing but he regressed and got run out of town.

Jeff has been in charge for more than 8 years and we've been bottom-10 in offense every single year, so if this is his vision why should we trust it? Seriously, how is this no-PG thing working out? Paolo is a turnover machine and Franz is starting to shoot threes like Fultz, and that's the hub of your offense? Seems less like vision and more like years of prioritizing athleticism over skill has caught up to Jeff.

You're not persuaded because you've misread what this team is building from the start. You ignore context, timelines, and nuance... then act confused when reality doesn’t match your strawman expectations.

Jeff didn’t start with a clean slate. He inherited the flawed Hennigan roster, polished it into a playoff team, then made the call to blow it up and rebuild when it was clear to ownership the build was a failure. The first three years were a full teardown and rebuild. The last two? Focused on growth and evaluation. Only now, with Paolo and Franz entering their prime contracts, are we shifting into a win-now phase.

And yes, the offense has struggled... because our highest-usage players have been young and hurt. You don’t build elite offenses around 21- and 22-year-olds. That’s not a system failure, that’s just how development works.

This upcoming season is when expectations shift. Franz enters his max extension, Suggs his near-max, and Paolo’s is coming. Now is the time to start holding them to performance standards. But pretending this team should’ve already been elite, and using that to discredit the vision, is just ignorant.

Fans simplify things very quickly to make decisions. Made it to the playoffs last season with a 1st round exit.... we should do better the next season. We should have.... the players expected to as well. Started off the season a little wobbly as we were trying to get our bearings and footing.... and then gut punch 5 games in......and the hits kept on coming for the next few months. but.... then "Oh .... we have paolo and franz back"... acting as though all is well. Most of these teams sharpened their iron all season long... and here we are reintegrating 2 2o something year old HIGH USAGE players back into the lineups 2 months before the end of the season.... and patching up holes on a sinking boat. This put a huge wrench in a developmental year. BUT then... we stopped the sinking... made into the playoffs... and took a second 1st round exit to the returning champions in a fight that left them black and blue. Even with the win .... they still lost. That to me is commendable. Without those injuries, we could have been looking at a top 4 team in the east.... primed to make a deeper run.

The funny thing to me is.... The ball movement and offensive rhythm i'm asking for isn't that far off.... as when paolo went down and players had to step up... the ball movement was much better. Players tried to fill the gaps needed even IF they weren't ready. But that's how we went on that winning streak after freefalling for like 5 games after the Paolo injury.

Praying that last years curse bears future healthy seasons so we can see what this team is really made of.

[pepe1991]

Explaining repeatedly what a wing-hub offense is or is supposed to be is not persuasive when the offense is near the bottom of the league. Who cares what the vision is, it's not working. And it got worse in 24-25 when they added a shooter ("gravity") in KCP. He was supposed to come here and add spacing but he regressed and got run out of town.

Jeff has been in charge for more than 8 years and we've been bottom-10 in offense every single year, so if this is his vision why should we trust it? Seriously, how is this no-PG thing working out? Paolo is a turnover machine and Franz is starting to shoot threes like Fultz, and that's the hub of your offense? Seems less like vision and more like years of prioritizing athleticism over skill has caught up to Jeff.

You're not persuaded because you've misread what this team is building from the start. You ignore context, timelines, and nuance... then act confused when reality doesn’t match your strawman expectations.

Jeff didn’t start with a clean slate. He inherited the flawed Hennigan roster, polished it into a playoff team, then made the call to blow it up and rebuild when it was clear to ownership the build was a failure. The first three years were a full teardown and rebuild. The last two? Focused on growth and evaluation. Only now, with Paolo and Franz entering their prime contracts, are we shifting into a win-now phase.

And yes, the offense has struggled... because our highest-usage players have been young and hurt. You don’t build elite offenses around 21- and 22-year-olds. That’s not a system failure, that’s just how development works.

This upcoming season is when expectations shift. Franz enters his max extension, Suggs his near-max, and Paolo’s is coming. Now is the time to start holding them to performance standards. But pretending this team should’ve already been elite, and using that to discredit the vision, is just ignorant.

Fans simplify things very quickly to make decisions. Made it to the playoffs last season with a 1st round exit.... we should do better the next season. We should have.... the players expected to as well. Started off the season a little wobbly as we were trying to get our bearings and footing.... and then gut punch 5 games in......and the hits kept on coming for the next few months. but.... then "Oh .... we have paolo and franz back"... acting as though all is well. Most of these teams sharpened their iron all season long... and here we are reintegrating 2 2o something year old HIGH USAGE players back into the lineups 2 months before the end of the season.... and patching up holes on a sinking boat. This put a huge wrench in a developmental year. BUT then... we stopped the sinking... made into the playoffs... and took a second 1st round exit to the returning champions in a fight that left them black and blue. Even with the win .... they still lost. That to me is commendable. Without those injuries, we could have been looking at a top 4 team in the east.... primed to make a deeper run.

The funny thing to me is.... The ball movement and offensive rhythm i'm asking for isn't that far off.... as when paolo went down and players had to step up... the ball movement was much better. Players tried to fill the gaps needed even IF they weren't ready. But that's how we went on that winning streak after freefalling for like 5 games after the Paolo injury.

Praying that last years curse bears future healthy seasons so we can see what this team is really made of.

2025 playoffs

lowest Assist numbers
lowest potential assist numbers
lowest secondary assist numbers
lowest points created by assists
lowest assist total adjusted to pace
worst assist to TO rate
worst assist to TO rate adjusted to pace



offense isn't far off amateur league. Magic offensive offense is Banchero and Franz playing street ball 1 on 5. 3 extras are there to fill formality of 5 players required by rule book.

[Skybox]

You're not persuaded because you've misread what this team is building from the start. You ignore context, timelines, and nuance... then act confused when reality doesn’t match your strawman expectations.

Jeff didn’t start with a clean slate. He inherited the flawed Hennigan roster, polished it into a playoff team, then made the call to blow it up and rebuild when it was clear to ownership the build was a failure. The first three years were a full teardown and rebuild. The last two? Focused on growth and evaluation. Only now, with Paolo and Franz entering their prime contracts, are we shifting into a win-now phase.

And yes, the offense has struggled... because our highest-usage players have been young and hurt. You don’t build elite offenses around 21- and 22-year-olds. That’s not a system failure, that’s just how development works.

This upcoming season is when expectations shift. Franz enters his max extension, Suggs his near-max, and Paolo’s is coming. Now is the time to start holding them to performance standards. But pretending this team should’ve already been elite, and using that to discredit the vision, is just ignorant.

Fans simplify things very quickly to make decisions. Made it to the playoffs last season with a 1st round exit.... we should do better the next season. We should have.... the players expected to as well. Started off the season a little wobbly as we were trying to get our bearings and footing.... and then gut punch 5 games in......and the hits kept on coming for the next few months. but.... then "Oh .... we have paolo and franz back"... acting as though all is well. Most of these teams sharpened their iron all season long... and here we are reintegrating 2 2o something year old HIGH USAGE players back into the lineups 2 months before the end of the season.... and patching up holes on a sinking boat. This put a huge wrench in a developmental year. BUT then... we stopped the sinking... made into the playoffs... and took a second 1st round exit to the returning champions in a fight that left them black and blue. Even with the win .... they still lost. That to me is commendable. Without those injuries, we could have been looking at a top 4 team in the east.... primed to make a deeper run.

The funny thing to me is.... The ball movement and offensive rhythm i'm asking for isn't that far off.... as when paolo went down and players had to step up... the ball movement was much better. Players tried to fill the gaps needed even IF they weren't ready. But that's how we went on that winning streak after freefalling for like 5 games after the Paolo injury.

Praying that last years curse bears future healthy seasons so we can see what this team is really made of.

2025 playoffs

lowest Assist numbers
lowest potential assist numbers
lowest secondary assist numbers
lowest points created by assists
lowest assist total adjusted to pace
worst assist to TO rate
worst assist to TO rate adjusted to pace



offense isn't far off amateur league. Magic offensive offense is Banchero and Franz playing street ball 1 on 5. 3 extras are there to fill formality of 5 players required by rule book.

Does Bane really change any of this or is coaching the big issue?

[yoyojw17]

You're not persuaded because you've misread what this team is building from the start. You ignore context, timelines, and nuance... then act confused when reality doesn’t match your strawman expectations.

Jeff didn’t start with a clean slate. He inherited the flawed Hennigan roster, polished it into a playoff team, then made the call to blow it up and rebuild when it was clear to ownership the build was a failure. The first three years were a full teardown and rebuild. The last two? Focused on growth and evaluation. Only now, with Paolo and Franz entering their prime contracts, are we shifting into a win-now phase.

And yes, the offense has struggled... because our highest-usage players have been young and hurt. You don’t build elite offenses around 21- and 22-year-olds. That’s not a system failure, that’s just how development works.

This upcoming season is when expectations shift. Franz enters his max extension, Suggs his near-max, and Paolo’s is coming. Now is the time to start holding them to performance standards. But pretending this team should’ve already been elite, and using that to discredit the vision, is just ignorant.

Fans simplify things very quickly to make decisions. Made it to the playoffs last season with a 1st round exit.... we should do better the next season. We should have.... the players expected to as well. Started off the season a little wobbly as we were trying to get our bearings and footing.... and then gut punch 5 games in......and the hits kept on coming for the next few months. but.... then "Oh .... we have paolo and franz back"... acting as though all is well. Most of these teams sharpened their iron all season long... and here we are reintegrating 2 2o something year old HIGH USAGE players back into the lineups 2 months before the end of the season.... and patching up holes on a sinking boat. This put a huge wrench in a developmental year. BUT then... we stopped the sinking... made into the playoffs... and took a second 1st round exit to the returning champions in a fight that left them black and blue. Even with the win .... they still lost. That to me is commendable. Without those injuries, we could have been looking at a top 4 team in the east.... primed to make a deeper run.

The funny thing to me is.... The ball movement and offensive rhythm i'm asking for isn't that far off.... as when paolo went down and players had to step up... the ball movement was much better. Players tried to fill the gaps needed even IF they weren't ready. But that's how we went on that winning streak after freefalling for like 5 games after the Paolo injury.

Praying that last years curse bears future healthy seasons so we can see what this team is really made of.

2025 playoffs

lowest Assist numbers
lowest potential assist numbers
lowest secondary assist numbers
lowest points created by assists
lowest assist total adjusted to pace
worst assist to TO rate
worst assist to TO rate adjusted to pace



offense isn't far off amateur league. Magic offensive offense is Banchero and Franz playing street ball 1 on 5. 3 extras are there to fill formality of 5 players required by rule book.

LIES ....

They are there to take pictures and video! Lol