2023 NBA Draft Thread 4

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The guys at 6 all don't fit. And I mean they are really bad fits.

Are there are any rumors out there that we trade it for FVV?

No you just sign FVV in FA if you want him

[pepe1991]

I love you pepe, but it's time to put your name on at least one prospect you like

Can't just brutalize every single player someone throws out there without offering some sort of suggestion.

You can track down my dislike for Cam way back to start of college season.

There are plenty of prospects i like.

Hendricks.
both twins
Black
Wemby
Miller
NIck Smith
Dick
Nnjai


I don't like some of them in context of Magic

Not a fan of Henderson?

I hate evaluating G league ignite prospects, dates back to Kuminga hype. I find that sort of basketball garbage and unwatchable so i didn't watch much footage of him.
He is apsolute spectacular athlete and in open floor you won't catch him. But he will have to have transition period from mindless running to nba offense, learn how to value possessions and play for something other than his stats and highlights.

[OrlChamps2030]

Cam looks like a classic case of a guy who was held back by choosing the wrong program to be a one and done. You can’t teach his size and aggression for a wing player and his shot is coming along nicely for a guy so physically developed for his age.

Im not sure what to make of his terrible AST% though. Was he just trying to get his while playing for a disappointing team that really missed Jay Wright?

Big question as far as fit - can he play the 2 next to alongside Franz and Paolo?

[basketballRob]

Cam looks like a classic case of a guy who was held back by choosing the wrong program to be a one and done. You can’t teach his size and aggression for a wing player and his shot is coming along nicely for a guy so physically developed for his age.

Im not sure what to make of his terrible AST% though. Was he just trying to get his while playing for a disappointing team that really missed Jay Wright?

Big question as far as fit - can he play the 2 next to alongside Franz and Paolo?

The coach did admit they just threw him out there after he recovered from injury. So he missed all the off-season fundamental practices.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

What makes up an A+ draft for the Orlando Magic?

[thelead]

Cam looks like a classic case of a guy who was held back by choosing the wrong program to be a one and done. You can’t teach his size and aggression for a wing player and his shot is coming along nicely for a guy so physically developed for his age.

Im not sure what to make of his terrible AST% though. Was he just trying to get his while playing for a disappointing team that really missed Jay Wright?

Big question as far as fit - can he play the 2 next to alongside Franz and Paolo?

The coach did admit they just threw him out there after he recovered from injury. So he missed all the off-season fundamental practices.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

I don't buy this excuse for his poor passing numbers. You don't need off-season fundamental practices to know that if you're being guarded by three players near the rim, a few of your teammates are wide open.

[thelead]

What makes up an A+ draft for the Orlando Magic?

Trade for a star (know immediately), draft a star (will take a while to know), draft at least 1 very solid starter (top ~75 guy) and 1 key role player (top ~125 guy).

[eyriq]

What makes up an A+ draft for the Orlando Magic?

Trade for a star (know immediately), draft a star (will take a while to know), draft at least 1 very solid starter (top ~75 guy) and 1 key role player (top ~125 guy).

I hear people grading drafts and I'm curious how they come up with the criteria.

[Black and Blue]

Cam looks like a classic case of a guy who was held back by choosing the wrong program to be a one and done. You can’t teach his size and aggression for a wing player and his shot is coming along nicely for a guy so physically developed for his age.

Im not sure what to make of his terrible AST% though. Was he just trying to get his while playing for a disappointing team that really missed Jay Wright?

Big question as far as fit - can he play the 2 next to alongside Franz and Paolo?

The coach did admit they just threw him out there after he recovered from injury. So he missed all the off-season fundamental practices.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Great post. I think the point about the coach at Nova is very important.

This is what makes this particular draft class so hard for many people (and the reason for the calling out of pepe to say who he actually would like the Magic to draft): Everyone besides Wemby has big questions regarding their level of competition, role in college, lack of shooting prowess, or more. You can take any player and say, "I wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole because of ____" and have it make complete sense.

The tricky thing is next year's draft thus far profiles as worse, and there are several players this year who have shown glimmers of greatness. We are forced to squint and project the future more than normal so the posts on here people make about who they LIKE are so much more useful than who they don't.

Is the athleticism the Thompson twins showed in their inferior league translatable in the NBA? How much did Cam's program work against him in college? Has Scoot showed enough to be worth mortgaging a ton to go up and grab him? Has Anthony Black shown enough to be drafted 6? Is it worth taking a person with good role player upside like Hendricks or Dick at 6?

I'd argue when in doubt you shoot for the stars. This year that unfortunately means the biggest boom or bust prospects. Role players can be had in free agency if that's all you are missing. I'm not of the opinion the Magic are 1-2 role players away from being a top team. They need something far greater, and this is their best chance to take that shot. Sometimes it fails spectacularly, like with Bamba and Isaac, but the past two years have shown how good it can work when done right.

For that reason, if you ask me who we SHOULD target, I'd say a lot of names people would probably get annoyed at because they are so high risk with lots of potential: Both Thompson twins, Scoot (with an expensive trade up), Cam Whitmore, Kobe Bufkin, Bilal Coulibaly, Keyonte George, and the like. You'll also see me pushing names further down the list where the scouting report says how they are close to a solid finished product but will never be a superstar.

[thelead]

What makes up an A+ draft for the Orlando Magic?

Trade for a star (know immediately), draft a star (will take a while to know), draft at least 1 very solid starter (top ~75 guy) and 1 key role player (top ~125 guy).

I hear people grading drafts and I'm curious how they come up with the criteria.

Day-of draft grades are silly and essentially uses the following formula:
'Small delta between where you draft the prospect vs my big board' = good grade
'Larger delta between where you draft the prospect vs my big board' = bad grade

[Black and Blue]

What makes up an A+ draft for the Orlando Magic?

Great question. Personally, I'd say 1-2 players that you COULD see filling that 3rd star role. Literally just having the potential for it to happen one day. If your scouting apart says, "Flashes star potential", you have my vote.

I put less stock into college tape than most, and more into raw skills and the will to grow. I feel more bullish on the team using their mountains of cap money to fill the 3&D roles than to uncover that larger missing piece. If you have two swings at that ball this year, it may be one of your best last chances to take it.

[The-Stallion70]

The guys at 6 all don't fit. And I mean they are really bad fits.

Are there are any rumors out there that we trade it for FVV?

No you just sign FVV in FA if you want him

No you do a S&T before other teams get a Crack at him.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The guys at 6 all don't fit. And I mean they are really bad fits.

Are there are any rumors out there that we trade it for FVV?

No you just sign FVV in FA if you want him

No you do a S&T before other teams get a Crack at him.

which is the FO's job to figure out if anyone is looking to snag him now.

I just don't think you would see a team giving up something for a guy you can sign in FA unless he was the missing piece. FVV doesn't seem to be a missing piece for contenders.

[jonbob17]

I saw a story that Utah is looking to trade up with Detroit (9+16 for 5)...gulp....they like Anthony Black, and think he's either going at 6 or 8.

[Petre1978]

I wouldn't rule out Hendricks personally.
I know forward isn't the biggest need in the world, but Hendricks looks the part of a low-usage, high-impact 3&D guy, and the backup forward situation is pretty awful.
Isaac is always injured, Okeke hasn't improved.

Hendricks would provide shooting, rim protection, and a solid defensive base for the bench.

I know it's illogical to draft a reserve at #6 overall, but it would fill a huge need for this team, and he would still probably be a BPA pick.

If, however, the team knows Fultz's shooting is always going to be an issue, and if they're not sold on Cole or Suggs longterm, then drafting a combo guard or PG makes sense at that position.

Enter Black, Wallace, Bufkin.

[tiderulz]

You can track down my dislike for Cam way back to start of college season.

There are plenty of prospects i like.

Hendricks.
both twins
Black
Wemby
Miller
NIck Smith
Dick
Nnjai


I don't like some of them in context of Magic

Not a fan of Henderson?

I hate evaluating G league ignite prospects, dates back to Kuminga hype. I find that sort of basketball garbage and unwatchable so i didn't watch much footage of him.
He is apsolute spectacular athlete and in open floor you won't catch him. But he will have to have transition period from mindless running to nba offense, learn how to value possessions and play for something other than his stats and highlights.

and i know its only HS, but he did take his (and my sons) HS team to the state title game in GA. and GA puts out a LOT of Div 1 talent in basketball (all sports really). plenty of pick n roll there. because honestly, except for a few teams, the NBA just does a lot of constant PNR

[jonbob17]

What makes up an A+ draft for the Orlando Magic?

Trade for a star (know immediately), draft a star (will take a while to know), draft at least 1 very solid starter (top ~75 guy) and 1 key role player (top ~125 guy).

I hear people grading drafts and I'm curious how they come up with the criteria.

They give the teams that take players they like high grades, and players they don't like bad grades. Yah, you won't really know until you know. Even Paolo, looks like a home run, but he still has a lof of growing to do.

So like Vecenie has Cam Whitmore at 3, which is a bit of an outlier, if he falls to 9, he'll give that team an A+ where as others think he has significant holes to overscome, and there is a lot of risk, even with the high upside and athletiicism.

Or like you probably have Keyonte top 6ish and I have Cason Walllace top 6ish. Both could conceivably fall out of the top 12, and we would think they were huge bargains where they are drafted...but we won't know until we know. Like AJ Griffin last year thought he was a top 6ish player went 16...seemed like an A+, and after a year it seems like a pretty good bet, but still has a lot of work to do.

[jonbob17]

You can track down my dislike for Cam way back to start of college season.

There are plenty of prospects i like.

Hendricks.
both twins
Black
Wemby
Miller
NIck Smith
Dick
Nnjai


I don't like some of them in context of Magic

Not a fan of Henderson?

I hate evaluating G league ignite prospects, dates back to Kuminga hype. I find that sort of basketball garbage and unwatchable so i didn't watch much footage of him.
He is apsolute spectacular athlete and in open floor you won't catch him. But he will have to have transition period from mindless running to nba offense, learn how to value possessions and play for something other than his stats and highlights.

Yah they really need to figure out a better way to develop these kids. Maybe a secondary league where winning is actually important rather than the G League where guys are just trying to get noticed. Maybe more money...i guess then you have to worry about playing time....almost seems better if the NBA (teams) poured money into prospects through the NIL, maybe a super league witin the NCAA.

The G League sucks.

It would be better if these kids got a little more time developing in real situations with real competition. I much rather draft a kid thats been getting paid a couple/few of years of seasoning, and is ready to contribute their rookie year in the league like they used to 20 years ago. Sure the NCAA would love it too....or at least the teams in the top division....guess it kind of screws NCAA totally up. Just think an NCAA league with 20 teams or so with elite talent staying for multiple years.

[GANGSTERDOG]

Cam looks like a classic case of a guy who was held back by choosing the wrong program to be a one and done. You can’t teach his size and aggression for a wing player and his shot is coming along nicely for a guy so physically developed for his age.

Im not sure what to make of his terrible AST% though. Was he just trying to get his while playing for a disappointing team that really missed Jay Wright?

Big question as far as fit - can he play the 2 next to alongside Franz and Paolo?

The coach did admit they just threw him out there after he recovered from injury. So he missed all the off-season fundamental practices.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Great post. I think the point about the coach at Nova is very important.

This is what makes this particular draft class so hard for many people (and the reason for the calling out of pepe to say who he actually would like the Magic to draft): Everyone besides Wemby has big questions regarding their level of competition, role in college, lack of shooting prowess, or more. You can take any player and say, "I wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole because of ____" and have it make complete sense.

The tricky thing is next year's draft thus far profiles as worse, and there are several players this year who have shown glimmers of greatness. We are forced to squint and project the future more than normal so the posts on here people make about who they LIKE are so much more useful than who they don't.

Is the athleticism the Thompson twins showed in their inferior league translatable in the NBA? How much did Cam's program work against him in college? Has Scoot showed enough to be worth mortgaging a ton to go up and grab him? Has Anthony Black shown enough to be drafted 6? Is it worth taking a person with good role player upside like Hendricks or Dick at 6?

I'd argue when in doubt you shoot for the stars. This year that unfortunately means the biggest boom or bust prospects. Role players can be had in free agency if that's all you are missing. I'm not of the opinion the Magic are 1-2 role players away from being a top team. They need something far greater, and this is their best chance to take that shot. Sometimes it fails spectacularly, like with Bamba and Isaac, but the past two years have shown how good it can work when done right.

For that reason, if you ask me who we SHOULD target, I'd say a lot of names people would probably get annoyed at because they are so high risk with lots of potential: Both Thompson twins, Scoot (with an expensive trade up), Cam Whitmore, Kobe Bufkin, Bilal Coulibaly, Keyonte George, and the like. You'll also see me pushing names further down the list where the scouting report says how they are close to a solid finished product but will never be a superstar.

Couldn't agree more

[shrink]

Did any of you catch the Lock’d On Mock Draft?

The guy running the Magic took Grady Dick at #6, then traded #11 + Okeke to NY for Hartlestein and a future 2nd, saying he wanted to clear roster spots for vet free agents.

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