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Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1561 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 4:23 pm

Spoiler:
fendilim wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
fendilim wrote:Well, bsed on the interviews with Welman/ Hammond, they seem to be going to picking lengthy players, because they think it will be the next trend in the NBA. Especially with KD and the rise of Giannis, Davis and unicorns like Ben and Embiid.

I really don't think Isaac and Mamba are cornerstone pieces, but I do think they will at least have a solid career in the league. Isaac is getting there, while Bamba I think has shown flashes but a lot of his struggles are really because of his lack of strength.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Strength is an issue for most NBA rookies but a lot of them still find ways to contribute in some way. A lot of his struggles are self inflicted in that he tends to coast through games and not be aggressive. Its why I kept saying "he does nothing good or bad" and it seems as though Cliff saw the same thing when he had to tell him to be aggressive, not to mention scouting reports pointed to his low motor, showing disinterest, lacking aggressiveness.

WEAKNESSES -Thin in his lower body. Still only 216 pounds. Not a very physical guy. -Motor really runs hot and cold. Looks disinterested at times. Walks around, doesn't jog off the court when subbed out. -Needs to play with more toughness to maximize his defensive potential. Gets posted up without much resistance. Defensive fundamentals have room to improve. Bites on fakes. Doesn't take great angles on the perimeter. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mohamed-Bamba-91224/ ©DraftExpress


https://thefrontofficeeye.com/2018/04/10/mo-bamba-scouting-report/
One concern I have is his motor. He paces himself from time to time and transition can be an issue, although when he wants to run he can run well.


https://theloopsports.com/2018/05/26/bulls-mo-bamba-scouting-report/
While physically there is no question Bamba has it all (provided he adds some weight), there are questions about his motor and physicality.


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mohamed-bamba
he should have been more aggressive at times while playing for the Longhorns ... A solid athlete, but much of his wow factor is due to length and not explosiveness or leaping ability .



http://www.nbascoutingreport.net/player-profiles-mo-bamba.html
Weaknesses
Motor/Effort level (could improve)
Strength (thin frame @ 225 lbs)
Shot selection
Aggressiveness
Turnovers
Efficiency
Limited offensively


I dont think strength has any correlation to improving motor. As stated before I really hope this isn't another Payton scenario where they had to ask him to be more aggressive because when he is aggressive he's effective on both sides. If you go to those sites I listed almost all of the talking points on "Strengths" refer to potential and "having the physical tools" to hopefully one day....

Yes, his motor is an issue, and leaves a lot to be desired.

But there were also some instances where he was simply being pushed out of the paint, or being overpowered by opposing bigs, thats why he ends up with forced shots inside the paint. Its also difficult to get yourself in the position when you're not really strong enough. If you're a perimeter player, you can get away with it more often. But Bamba isn't just playing against 6'0", he's also playing against more muscular players with the same height as his.

As a rookie, I don't expect much from Bamba. Bamba can get away with his motor now merely because of his length, IMO. He doesn't have to chase every shot. Maybe causing deflections, or disrupting the opponent from getting a rebound, but this is clearly not the case right now. There were instances where opposing SFs would guard him, and he'd still get pushed around.

To me, Bamba's career, will be predicated on his ability to gain weight and get stronger. if he can do that, he'll be a good player. His length is pretty much useless if he gets pushed out of position.

Perhaps our expectation of Bamba as a rookie is different. I never expected him to contribute right away. He is more of a project. He already had difficulty with the physicality of the game during summer league, I did not expect him to adapt to a higher intensity after 6 months.

If i was as underdeveloped as he is physically.... i wouldn't be trying to throw what weight i had around either. lol. That was well known by everyone. It's hard to assert yourself when weight as much as most small forwards and you're a center. Needless to say I do see POSSIBLE correlation between his hesitance/motor and his weight. Kinda like how whiteside came into the league as a rail and then became efficient as his strength grew. Shoot... he was barely playing at all in his first couple years. Bamba will end up being a more intelligent version of whiteside when it's all said and done. Hopefully his motor/confidence does increase exponentially as he gets stronger.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1562 » by OrlandO » Wed Jan 9, 2019 4:24 pm

Some rare news about our 43rd pick!

Read on Twitter


Oh...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1563 » by woosah » Wed Jan 9, 2019 4:26 pm

GameOver25 wrote:Some Orlando Magic Mail I received this morning, here's a snip....

DON'T VOTE FOR VOOCH

Please do not vote to send Nikola Vucevic to the 2019 NBA All-Star game in Charlotte.

REASON #1: He'll embarrass himself taking too many photos of celebrities.
REASON #2: He'll spend way too much time at the NASCAR Hall of Fame.
REASON #3: He's planning a beach vacation with the family.

:laugh:

I wonder if they'd think it's funny if a bunch of fans started a campaign saying, "Please do not renew your season tickets!"

Please do not renew your tickets for the 2019-2020 season.

REASON #1: They make you ashamed to admit you are a magic fan, since they do nothing to improve the team.
REASON #2: They will draft longbois who have no offensive qualities and will not score over 100 until 2030.
REASON #3: We will keep Nikola Vucevic on the team and run offense through him until his son Filip can come in and replace him in 2039.
Email every magic fan you know. DON'T RENEW!!!!!

oh but it's just reverse psychologehhhhh
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1564 » by pepe1991 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 4:38 pm

OrlandO wrote:Some rare news about our 43rd pick!

Read on Twitter


Oh...


He was result of Payton trade right?
:rofl:

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1565 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:08 pm

Speaking of our development guys. I looked up FTAs per 100 possessions on NBA.com and we actually have the #1 on the list. Amile Jefferson. Last game in Lakeland, Jefferson shot 6 FTs, scored 19 points and added 12 rebounds and 5 assists. Two years in a row he has averaged 17+ppg and 12+rpg to go along with an average of 3 assists per game. Jefferson averages 4.4 FTAs per game over the last two seasons. For context on the FTs, AG leads us with just 3.1 attempts per game.

Jefferson has only logged 50 something NBA minutes but has had a very solid 2-year Gleague career. He is a PF unfortunately, but can he be worse than Martin?

As for 3pt shooters, there are a few guys buried on benches around the league we might pick up, McLemore and some rookies, but Troy Caupain has a good shot and shoots it frequently. He is already here and requires little effort.

These are guys that will get a chance this summer to prove their worth and possibly make our roster, but we do have the potential to work these guys in and save some money next season on cheap backups.

Melvin Frazier Jr. III doesn't appear to be much to talk about, but he's young. Maybe in his 14th year of playing organized basketball he'll learn.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1566 » by OrlandO » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:26 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Some rare news about our 43rd pick!

Read on Twitter


Oh...


He was result of Payton trade right?
:rofl:

:banghead:

Jackson was always a longshot, so I don't really care either way. It would be nice to hit on a hidden gem, but late 2nds are basically just overpaid g-leaguers most of the time. Half don't ever see a minute of NBA action and the others last a year or two rotting on the bench before being replaced.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1567 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:51 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
Spoiler:
fendilim wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Strength is an issue for most NBA rookies but a lot of them still find ways to contribute in some way. A lot of his struggles are self inflicted in that he tends to coast through games and not be aggressive. Its why I kept saying "he does nothing good or bad" and it seems as though Cliff saw the same thing when he had to tell him to be aggressive, not to mention scouting reports pointed to his low motor, showing disinterest, lacking aggressiveness.



https://thefrontofficeeye.com/2018/04/10/mo-bamba-scouting-report/


https://theloopsports.com/2018/05/26/bulls-mo-bamba-scouting-report/


https://www.nbadraft.net/players/mohamed-bamba



http://www.nbascoutingreport.net/player-profiles-mo-bamba.html


I dont think strength has any correlation to improving motor. As stated before I really hope this isn't another Payton scenario where they had to ask him to be more aggressive because when he is aggressive he's effective on both sides. If you go to those sites I listed almost all of the talking points on "Strengths" refer to potential and "having the physical tools" to hopefully one day....

Yes, his motor is an issue, and leaves a lot to be desired.

But there were also some instances where he was simply being pushed out of the paint, or being overpowered by opposing bigs, thats why he ends up with forced shots inside the paint. Its also difficult to get yourself in the position when you're not really strong enough. If you're a perimeter player, you can get away with it more often. But Bamba isn't just playing against 6'0", he's also playing against more muscular players with the same height as his.

As a rookie, I don't expect much from Bamba. Bamba can get away with his motor now merely because of his length, IMO. He doesn't have to chase every shot. Maybe causing deflections, or disrupting the opponent from getting a rebound, but this is clearly not the case right now. There were instances where opposing SFs would guard him, and he'd still get pushed around.

To me, Bamba's career, will be predicated on his ability to gain weight and get stronger. if he can do that, he'll be a good player. His length is pretty much useless if he gets pushed out of position.

Perhaps our expectation of Bamba as a rookie is different. I never expected him to contribute right away. He is more of a project. He already had difficulty with the physicality of the game during summer league, I did not expect him to adapt to a higher intensity after 6 months.

If i was as underdeveloped as he is physically.... i wouldn't be trying to throw what weight i had around either. lol. That was well known by everyone. It's hard to assert yourself when weight as much as most small forwards and you're a center. Needless to say I do see POSSIBLE correlation between his hesitance/motor and his weight. Kinda like how whiteside came into the league as a rail and then became efficient as his strength grew. Shoot... he was barely playing at all in his first couple years. Bamba will end up being a more intelligent version of whiteside when it's all said and done. Hopefully his motor/confidence does increase exponentially as he gets stronger.
I see no correlation at all. I see consistent concerns about his motor/aggressiveness (even when he was matched up physically with other college players) and I see it manifesting itself in the NBA. I think it’s a mental approach to the game. Also in no capacity should he be allowed to play with no motor or aggressiveness just because he’s a rookie. That’s absurd.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1568 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:00 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
yoyojw17 wrote:
Spoiler:
fendilim wrote:Yes, his motor is an issue, and leaves a lot to be desired.

But there were also some instances where he was simply being pushed out of the paint, or being overpowered by opposing bigs, thats why he ends up with forced shots inside the paint. Its also difficult to get yourself in the position when you're not really strong enough. If you're a perimeter player, you can get away with it more often. But Bamba isn't just playing against 6'0", he's also playing against more muscular players with the same height as his.

As a rookie, I don't expect much from Bamba. Bamba can get away with his motor now merely because of his length, IMO. He doesn't have to chase every shot. Maybe causing deflections, or disrupting the opponent from getting a rebound, but this is clearly not the case right now. There were instances where opposing SFs would guard him, and he'd still get pushed around.

To me, Bamba's career, will be predicated on his ability to gain weight and get stronger. if he can do that, he'll be a good player. His length is pretty much useless if he gets pushed out of position.

Perhaps our expectation of Bamba as a rookie is different. I never expected him to contribute right away. He is more of a project. He already had difficulty with the physicality of the game during summer league, I did not expect him to adapt to a higher intensity after 6 months.

If i was as underdeveloped as he is physically.... i wouldn't be trying to throw what weight i had around either. lol. That was well known by everyone. It's hard to assert yourself when weight as much as most small forwards and you're a center. Needless to say I do see POSSIBLE correlation between his hesitance/motor and his weight. Kinda like how whiteside came into the league as a rail and then became efficient as his strength grew. Shoot... he was barely playing at all in his first couple years. Bamba will end up being a more intelligent version of whiteside when it's all said and done. Hopefully his motor/confidence does increase exponentially as he gets stronger.
I see no correlation at all. I see consistent concerns about his motor/aggressiveness (even when he was matched up physically with other college players) and I see it manifesting itself in the NBA. I think it’s a mental approach to the game. Also in no capacity should he be allowed to play with no motor or aggressiveness just because he’s a rookie. That’s absurd.

well... to each their own. as i said... POSSIBLE. Because for me there has to be a median if clifford says he works hard and still gives him time. Can i be wrong.... most definitely.... but only time will tell.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1569 » by basketballRob » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:31 pm

Jeremy Lamb might be a nice replacement for TRoss next year if they decide to trade him this season. I doubt the Hornets could afford to keep him, plus they have Monk.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lambje01.html
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1570 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:37 pm

OrlandO wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Some rare news about our 43rd pick!

Read on Twitter


Oh...


He was result of Payton trade right?
:rofl:

:banghead:

Jackson was always a longshot, so I don't really care either way. It would be nice to hit on a hidden gem, but late 2nds are basically just overpaid g-leaguers most of the time. Half don't ever see a minute of NBA action and the others last a year or two rotting on the bench before being replaced.


Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1571 » by basketballRob » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:42 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
He was result of Payton trade right?
:rofl:

:banghead:

Jackson was always a longshot, so I don't really care either way. It would be nice to hit on a hidden gem, but late 2nds are basically just overpaid g-leaguers most of the time. Half don't ever see a minute of NBA action and the others last a year or two rotting on the bench before being replaced.


Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.


Weham likes them really long and he has a 7'3" wingspan. I think his shoulder injury hurt his career, prior to that he was known as the good Justin Jackson, not the one drafted by the Kings.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1572 » by RickB-Orlando » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:54 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
RickB-Orlando wrote:
Really? A 20/10 guaranteed double-double that can pass as well as some guards - who are you adding?
Kanter and Len could both average a double double, that's off the top of my head.

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Len hasn't sniffed those numbers, but Kanter has. And he's actually younger than Vuc.

Monroe and Boogie are same age as Vuc and will also be FAs.


Kanter is a fine rebounder (especially on the offensive side), but his scoring has never been close to comparable (maybe 2015 I guess) and he's no where near the passer. Shockingly to many here, he also blocks less shots! That surprised me actually - and while his ORTG is impressive, his DRTG is definitely *not*.

I'm not sure why, but Kanter seems to be struggling to earn playing time in NY...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1573 » by OrlandO » Wed Jan 9, 2019 7:02 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
He was result of Payton trade right?
:rofl:

:banghead:

Jackson was always a longshot, so I don't really care either way. It would be nice to hit on a hidden gem, but late 2nds are basically just overpaid g-leaguers most of the time. Half don't ever see a minute of NBA action and the others last a year or two rotting on the bench before being replaced.


Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.

I bet they'll all end up out of the league or traded for nothing within their first two seasons... maybe Shake Milton is in a good spot to develop slowly as a third stringer. Jackson made sense from a gamble perspective.... he was a first round prospect before his injury in college. Didn't work out, but probably didn't hurt trying as the odds of drafting a long-term player late in the 2nd round is really small to begin with.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1574 » by basketballRob » Wed Jan 9, 2019 7:02 pm

I still wouldn't write Vuc a crazy check. We also still have Bamba.
RickB-Orlando wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Kanter and Len could both average a double double, that's off the top of my head.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


Len hasn't sniffed those numbers, but Kanter has. And he's actually younger than Vuc.

Monroe and Boogie are same age as Vuc and will also be FAs.


Kanter is a fine rebounder (especially on the offensive side), but his scoring has never been close to comparable (maybe 2015 I guess) and he's no where near the passer. Shockingly to many here, he also blocks less shots! That surprised me actually - and while his ORTG is impressive, his DRTG is definitely *not*.

I'm not sure why, but Kanter seems to be struggling to earn playing time in NY...


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1575 » by tiderulz » Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:23 pm

basketballRob wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Jackson was always a longshot, so I don't really care either way. It would be nice to hit on a hidden gem, but late 2nds are basically just overpaid g-leaguers most of the time. Half don't ever see a minute of NBA action and the others last a year or two rotting on the bench before being replaced.


Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.


Weham likes them really long and he has a 7'3" wingspan. I think his shoulder injury hurt his career, prior to that he was known as the good Justin Jackson, not the one drafted by the Kings.

Shake Milton is 6'6 with a near 7' wingspan, should have been an easy target
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1576 » by tiderulz » Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:24 pm

OrlandO wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Jackson was always a longshot, so I don't really care either way. It would be nice to hit on a hidden gem, but late 2nds are basically just overpaid g-leaguers most of the time. Half don't ever see a minute of NBA action and the others last a year or two rotting on the bench before being replaced.


Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.

I bet they'll all end up out of the league or traded for nothing within their first two seasons... maybe Shake Milton is in a good spot to develop slowly as a third stringer. Jackson made sense from a gamble perspective.... he was a first round prospect before his injury in college. Didn't work out, but probably didn't hurt trying as the odds of drafting a long-term player late in the 2nd round is really small to begin with.

except Jackson didnt make sense, as he duplicated players and skill already on the roster.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1577 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:30 pm

tiderulz wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.

I bet they'll all end up out of the league or traded for nothing within their first two seasons... maybe Shake Milton is in a good spot to develop slowly as a third stringer. Jackson made sense from a gamble perspective.... he was a first round prospect before his injury in college. Didn't work out, but probably didn't hurt trying as the odds of drafting a long-term player late in the 2nd round is really small to begin with.

except Jackson didnt make sense, as he duplicated players and skill already on the roster.


FO doesn't value 2nd round picks period, wouldn't be shocked to see em trade away 31st pick come draft night for more futures
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1578 » by OrlandO » Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:46 pm

tiderulz wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Players we should've taken over Jackson: De'Anthony Melton, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Shake Milton.. any of those 3 would've made more sense then Jackson.

I bet they'll all end up out of the league or traded for nothing within their first two seasons... maybe Shake Milton is in a good spot to develop slowly as a third stringer. Jackson made sense from a gamble perspective.... he was a first round prospect before his injury in college. Didn't work out, but probably didn't hurt trying as the odds of drafting a long-term player late in the 2nd round is really small to begin with.

except Jackson didnt make sense, as he duplicated players and skill already on the roster.

Any player that plays well can make sense on a team lacking talent. If Jackson recovered from his shoulder injury and was knocking down threes like he did as a freshman he'd have a spot here to develop. Hoping he'd return to form and look like a first round talent again is the part that makes sense. Didn't play out that way, but there's nothing new or crazy about making a gamble like that. What doesn't make sense is fans crying about 2nd rounders... everyone should know by now late 2nd rounders almost never hit for the teams that draft them.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1579 » by MoMM » Wed Jan 9, 2019 9:25 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
OrlandO wrote:I bet they'll all end up out of the league or traded for nothing within their first two seasons... maybe Shake Milton is in a good spot to develop slowly as a third stringer. Jackson made sense from a gamble perspective.... he was a first round prospect before his injury in college. Didn't work out, but probably didn't hurt trying as the odds of drafting a long-term player late in the 2nd round is really small to begin with.

except Jackson didnt make sense, as he duplicated players and skill already on the roster.


FO doesn't value 2nd round picks period, wouldn't be shocked to see em trade away 31st pick come draft night for more futures

Cash considerations + 2nd round pick protected for picks 1-55.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#1580 » by drsd » Wed Jan 9, 2019 9:31 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:I am amazed that fans here think they know more than the professionals running these teams.



And-2 !



..

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