Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[j-ragg]

I don’t get why it’s speculation to say these guys are moveable contracts. I think anyone would agree they have at the very least neutral value. Just because management is sitting on their hands doesn’t mean it isn’t doable.

[fendilim]

I don’t get why it’s speculation to say these guys are moveable contracts. I think anyone would agree they have at the very least neutral value. Just because management is sitting on their hands doesn’t mean it isn’t doable.

i dont think its about just being movable contracts. but its also about getting value in return.

i do expect vuc to be moved for cheap this year though. why?clearly he doesnt fit the team long term with bamba around. also, he is under an expiring deal. so i think weham are just trying to exhaust all possible returns. see what happened to elfrid. he simply didnt fit into what we were trying to do, and instead of letting him walk for nothing, we decided to trade him for the deal that management seem best moving forward.

[VFX]

I don’t get why it’s speculation to say these guys are moveable contracts. I think anyone would agree they have at the very least neutral value. Just because management is sitting on their hands doesn’t mean it isn’t doable.

i dont think its about just being movable contracts. but its also about getting value in return.

i do expect vuc to be moved for cheap this year though. why?clearly he doesnt fit the team long term with bamba around. also, he is under an expiring deal. so i think weham are just trying to exhaust all possible returns. see what happened to elfrid. he simply didnt fit into what we were trying to do, and instead of letting him walk for nothing, we decided to trade him for the deal that management seem best moving forward.

That’s what people are saying. Not every deal is “better or equal” beneath surface value. Addition by subtraction should have been what was implemented. Getting rid of some of these guys for slightly lesser value is a net positive overall to the benefit of the team.

For example, I don’t care that Elfrid netted us a 2nd round pick. I was mad at first, but at least we can stop pretending. The team is better off without him and he isn’t a liability anymore. If anything, it proves that management held onto him far too long before the rest of the league knew he was garbage. Like it or not, philly knew how to tank and build assets by moving players like Noel/ Okafor/ MCW before they became lesser assets. It still doesn’t explain having misfit vets attempt to carry a playoff-less team for 6 years of failure.

[pepe1991]

[NickAnderson]

Omg the heat just signed sticks. GOAT

[fendilim]

Omg the heat just signed sticks. GOAT

Diener says hi.

[Jiwol]

Who's "Sticks"? Liggins?

[pepe1991]

wait when in middle of a game Heat players find out they are traded for Butler

[PennytoShaq]

&& I feel like I and others have answered that question 7 times. Vuc, Ross, Simmons, are all very moveable contracts. There is really no magic that is required, those are expiring and team friendly contracts. Teams look for contracts like those in a trade. Augustine is one of the better backups in the league on the back end of his deal. It's not a contract that is necessarily easily moved but it would be hard to convince me that paired with a Simmons in a trade that there isn't a playoff team in need of both.

The only two contracts that would be really hard to move imo would be Evans and Moz's, but those I can live with. I just wont buy the argument that the other players I mentioned are on unmovable or even hard to move contracts. They are pretty easily moved imo, this FO has just hired a win now coach and is more interested in them bringing us wins then letting them go. Thats what it comes down to.

No one has really answered the question because you “feeling “ that those contracts are movable does not mean anything.

Mostly everything you have said is speculation. If there were rumors out there that we were involed in trading these guys i would be upset as well. No doubt about it.It simply is not the case though with vuc. I just dont think he has value until closer to the deadline.

Additonally 2/3 guys you want to move are bench players. Plus I think ross is actually a nice player to have here since we need shooting.

Vuc,evan,dj. Those are the main guys to move. Simmons and ross, ok but it doesnt do much in terms of what you want.

Aside from Bamba, Gordon, and Isaac, our roster is composed of expendable pieces from other rosters that we have collectively grown unusually attached to. The difference between the five or so extra wins that they hypothetically provide has almost certainly been more of a detriment to our rebuild due to the damage it has done to our draft position.

We aren't privy to the vast majority of the goings on behind closed doors, but we do know that John Gabriel managed to purge a roster full of veterans in the span of about a week and reconstruct a roster within the span of about a year.

I'm trying to be patient with this front office, but it's difficult to construe their "evaluation" period or lack of activity on the trade front as anything other than a lack of clear direction. Not spending money in free agency and making lottery picks is the very minimum that they could've done up to this point.

John Gabriel era was worlds away. Teams just can’t purge rosters like that very often anymore.

I don’t think grabbing two legit lotto picks and navigating the cap well is the very minimum at all. In fact, that is something many teams blow right away. I keep reading people saying how Trae Young is already a bust. That could be extremely damaging for the Hawks if so. They passed on Doncic and Bamba for him. And this is a guy from the GSW family, who people here hold as the gold standard of modern basketball. He is a guy who prioritized shooting in his draft (which many wanted the Magic to do)and it looks like it may have backfired completely.

To say what Weltman has done is a bit underwhelming is fair. To say it is the “very minimum” is simply wrong. I will take two strong lotto picks and fixing our cap as a solid first step in turning things around here.

[PennytoShaq]

I don’t get why it’s speculation to say these guys are moveable contracts. I think anyone would agree they have at the very least neutral value. Just because management is sitting on their hands doesn’t mean it isn’t doable.

You have no idea they are sitting on their hands. That’s really the main point here. It’s just a baseless assumption used to criticize them with no actual evidence behind it.

You really think a FO who was strongly rumored to have shopped AG last deadline to gauge his value has not shopped Nik freaking Vucevic? I mean, cmon.

We managed to trade Bizmack Biyombo, but look what we got back - Mozgov’s contract and Grant - who appears to suck. It’s hard to trade players on a bad team, especially ones with outdated games like Vuc.

Meanwhile they go out and find Birch and Briscoe, who look to be legit bench players on team friendly deals, and not many people seem to acknowledge that type of stuff. Those moves are solid. If the Magic can rebuild their bench while hunting for 2 more legit starters, this can turn around a lot faster than people think.

[Knightro]

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Told ya...

[PennytoShaq]

Sentinel in general is a training ground for young writers like Cole Harvey and Jamelle Hill etc to get to ESPN and make a respectable salary.

Can’t blame Robbins for this. He probably is getting paid a lot more now. Wonder who the OS’s next guy is.

[Knightro]

Sentinel in general is a training ground for young writers like Cole Harvey and Jamelle Hill etc to get to ESPN and make a respectable salary.

Can’t blame Robbins for this. He probably is getting paid a lot more now. Wonder who the OS’s next guy is.

Chris Hays on a temporary basis until they fill the role.

[Howard Mass]

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Told ya...

You were right Knightro.

I am not surprised. Robbins is a good beat writer and will continue to do so at The Athletic.

[Catledge]

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Told ya...

FYI for anybody thinking of getting a subscription to The Athletic: You can probably find it for 50% off if you look around enough. I was about to get it for 40% off via a link from The Total Soccer Show podcast. I clicked on it but then decided to think it over for a day, and then I started getting Google ads for 50%.

[rcklsscognition]

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to 10, as in 9.

DJ/Fournier/JI/AG/Vuc

and

Grant/Ross/Simmons/Bamba

that would be all. I guess you assume JI will be injured nursing an ankle for half a season, maybe Iwundu plays. My guess is that Ross and Simmons soak up the extra minutes from only playing 9.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

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[pepe1991]

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You can shuffle top 5 but list is true.

Kings ( 12 years), Suns ( 8 ) and Magic ( 6) are teams with longest active playoff droughts.

[Optimus_Steel]

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About time we got some recognition!!!

[VFX]

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He’s not wrong.