Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

[ezzzp]

ok but 12 game and 15 mins a game in a crowded backcourt of Nuggets isnt a very good sample size

He also played 400 minutes for Cleveland and 485 minutes for the Lakers. In both situations he was terrible. Its sad, but the guy's career is probably over. Last attempt to fix issue was surgery in March 2018...a year of rehab later when he suited up in Denver it was clear that he still hadn't regained even half of explosion and completely lost range and off-the-bounce ability with his shot. I hope he makes it back as he deserves it...but at 31, its not a very promising outlook.

I might have the timeline wrong but wasn't his time in Cleveland and LA before the surgery to fix his hip?

Yea, he tried non-surgical approaches that didn't work before finally having to go the surgery route.

[Xatticus]

And how did you come to this conclusion?Where did you see him play after injury to make these claims may I ask?

He played for Denver this year...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html

34% from the field, 28% from 3. 1:1.5 assist to turnover ratio. It was ugly.

ok but 12 game and 15 mins a game in a crowded backcourt of Nuggets isnt a very good sample size

They tried to integrate him into their rotation. They took him out of it because it wasn't working. I believe they said he wasn't working within the framework of what they were trying to do.

I'd have zero interest in him.

[pepe1991]

People who want Bamba to start care more about being right on internet than his health, or team.
Guy played 18 mpg and had to be DNPed from half of a season due fracture in leg, non conctact injury due overuse.

What exactly do you think I want to be “right” about? Bamba doesn’t have to be starting right away this season, but you’d fully expect the #6 draft pick to be able to play starters minutes eventually. Birch can play and so can Portis. It still doesn’t absolutely mean Vuc has to be resigned because he wasn’t entirely capable last season to take ALL the minutes.

Because whole summer you are doing your best Skin impression, driven by one agenda you wiggle around angles, theories and half truths because you want Vučević gone.

The fact stands- 6th overall pick, Mohamed Bamba suffered from non contact injury after being held on 18 mpg. During his time with team he was one of the worst basketball players in whole league. His playing time was limited by his: skill, conditioning and inability to stay on court more.

Do you want your 6th pick to play more ? Sure, in theory. Would you like your 4th overall pick to play more if his name is Dragan Bender? Not every player that is picked high is star and will get unlimited amount of PT just because he was drafted high. Some players flat out suck. Bamba gave zero reasons to belive that he will ever be anything more than average player with limited offensive skill and pretty low motor.

For crying out loud guy had net rating of -17, among 530 players he made it to top 30 worst, that includes guy who played 1 min and guys like Jamal Crawford, Frye, Haslem who are 37+.

This is pro basketball league ,not charity event to give playing time for somebody. Earn your min. There are guys like Whiteside who were out of nba to earn $27M a year. There are guys like Thabeet who were lottery picks and out of nba in few years.
For we all know, there is no much difference today between Bamba and Maker. Can he be better ? Sure. But prove it by being at least servicable for start.

[Xatticus]

People who want Bamba to start care more about being right on internet than his health, or team.
Guy played 18 mpg and had to be DNPed from half of a season due fracture in leg, non conctact injury due overuse.

It's really not likely to be his 15 minutes of basketball per night that caused his injury. Stress fractures are from overuse of fatigued muscles. The muscles tire and the bones absorb more of the stress. I got a stress fracture in my leg from running 30 miles per week. I would expect that the training staff had to reevaluate his fitness program. It could also be due in part to poor mechanics.

[PrimeThyme]

Sorry, but I’m not going to put much emphasis into Bambas net rating when the majority of his minutes were played next to Grant, Simmons, and Iwundu. Two of those three aren’t NBA rotation level players and Wes was pretty borderline until MCW came in and he started to produce.

I know people want to completely discredit the encouraging advanced stats he put up last year because of his net rating, but I’m not going to. I think if he can continue to add muscle this summer and we can get him on the floor for 20+ minutes a night he will start to show signs and produce for us next year.

Again, I’m not advocating for him to start, I still think that should be Birch, but I’m not giving up on him and not going to already say that he will be one of the worse rotational players next year. That bench needs major upgrades, and he needs to add on size.

[pepe1991]

People who want Bamba to start care more about being right on internet than his health, or team.
Guy played 18 mpg and had to be DNPed from half of a season due fracture in leg, non conctact injury due overuse.

It's really not likely to be his 15 minutes of basketball per night that caused his injury. Stress fractures are from overuse of fatigued muscles. The muscles tire and the bones absorb more of the stress. I got a stress fracture in my leg from running 30 miles per week. I would expect that the training staff had to reevaluate his fitness program. It could also be due in part to poor mechanics.

Did you remember his conditioning during last summer league ? Guy was grasping for air after 10 min. I think lot of his " motor " issues are actually result of his poor conditioning. Maybe he simply doesn't have capacity to do aerobic exercise longer.



I feel like athletic prime of most of nba players , due over-reliance on athletics is moved from 29-31 to 26-28. I feel like overtraining is problem with lot of new athletes as lot of pro conditioning coaches are still stuck in their mid 90s tough love, "balls to the wall every day" crap.
When i heared that at world cup, after 120 min game, players had conditioning traning next day i wanted to punch my tv.

[pepe1991]

Sorry, but I’m not going to put much emphasis into Bambas net rating when the majority of his minutes were played next to Grant, Simmons, and Iwundu. Two of those three aren’t NBA rotation level players and Wes was pretty borderline until MCW came in and he started to produce.

I know people want to completely discredit the encouraging advanced stats he put up last year because of his net rating, but I’m not going to. I think if he can continue to add muscle this summer and we can get him on the floor for 20+ minutes a night he will start to show signs and produce for us next year.

Again, I’m not advocating for him to start, I still think that should be Birch, but I’m not giving up on him and not going to already say that he will be one of the worse rotational players next year. That bench needs major upgrades, and he needs to add on size.

19- 28 with Bamba.
23-12 without him

I don't really think that talking about net rating of rookie means a lot, but it's indicator of his impact. But his main issue stands his inability to play longer due poor conditioning ( and injury ofc).

[Omagic12]

Now that Al Horford is a free agent do you think, thats one less suitor for vooch? Especially since he is linked to the Mavericks.

[SOUL]

This is pro basketball league ,not charity event to give playing time for somebody. Earn your min. There are guys like Whiteside who were out of nba to earn $27M a year. There are guys like Thabeet who were lottery picks and out of nba in few years.
For we all know, there is no much difference today between Bamba and Maker. Can he be better ? Sure. But prove it by being at least servicable for start.

I'd argue that many rookies are not serviceable from the start but teams invest in them because they don't want to get into a Hezonja situation where they're required to make a decision if they're even worth extending. (Hell, Wiggins got a max contract from not even being serviceable and just putting up stats.) Our franchise's job is to make sure we KNOW what we have in guys and that we get an answer on a wasted year (aka tanking). It makes sense that if we wanted to be good this year, which took a while tbh, but ended up in playoffs, so playing Bamba the minutes we did was fine. That's not the issue necessarily. It's just that he shouldn't have to be held to some imaginary talent level bar or he can't play type of judgment.

We know he was a step slow and looked overwhelmed a good amount just by watching him, but we did see him show flashes of great play and he was starting to put it together on the defensive end and knowing his role for the team before he got injured. Those are pluses. People just like to lump the stats together and say he was underwhelming right away because it's easy and simple to do that just by looking at stats and watching the games, but we did legitimately see what a force he could be at times too. It's ultimately up to him, his body and effort/attitude towards the game to stay on court as it is for every player, but he should and will get the opportunities he deserves next year IMO.

And while the stats are also true, nobody can say with a straight face that when your guards are Jerian Grant and Jonathon Simmons you are being given a fair chance when the ball isn't coming your way after doing "the right thing" to get open.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Now that Al Horford is a free agent do you think, thats one less suitor for vooch? Especially since he is linked to the Mavericks.

It opens up Boston as a place for Vuc now. Don’t really think Mavs we’re interested to begin with.

[NotACat]

Now that Al Horford is a free agent do you think, thats one less suitor for vooch? Especially since he is linked to the Mavericks.

It opens up Boston as a place for Vuc now. Don’t really think Mavs we’re interested to begin with.

I don't think Boston is interested. Their time table to compete is totally different now without Kyrie and Horford. I think they ride it out with Baynes and Theis, maybe grab a young big this year or next in the draft.

[Message Boar]

Also it looks like the Mavs are a likely destination for Horford, and they may also have been interested in Vuc. If anything our position got better, not worse. I could also see them taking a C (Bol/Hayes/Bitazde) in the first round tomorrow.

[ezzzp]

Magic are trying to sell their 2nd round pick

Read on Twitter

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

[pepe1991]

This is pro basketball league ,not charity event to give playing time for somebody. Earn your min. There are guys like Whiteside who were out of nba to earn $27M a year. There are guys like Thabeet who were lottery picks and out of nba in few years.
For we all know, there is no much difference today between Bamba and Maker. Can he be better ? Sure. But prove it by being at least servicable for start.

I'd argue that many rookies are not serviceable from the start but teams invest in them because they don't want to get into a Hezonja situation where they're required to make a decision if they're even worth extending. (Hell, Wiggins got a max contract from not even being serviceable and just putting up stats.) Our franchise's job is to make sure we KNOW what we have in guys and that we get an answer on a wasted year (aka tanking). It makes sense that if we wanted to be good this year, which took a while tbh, but ended up in playoffs, so playing Bamba the minutes we did was fine. That's not the issue necessarily. It's just that he shouldn't have to be held to some imaginary talent level bar or he can't play type of judgment.

We know he was a step slow and looked overwhelmed a good amount just by watching him, but we did see him show flashes of great play and he was starting to put it together on the defensive end and knowing his role for the team before he got injured. Those are pluses. People just like to lump the stats together and say he was underwhelming right away because it's easy and simple to do that just by looking at stats and watching the games, but we did legitimately see what a force he could be at times too. It's ultimately up to him, his body and effort/attitude towards the game to stay on court as it is for every player, but he should and will get the opportunities he deserves next year IMO.

And while the stats are also true, nobody can say with a straight face that when your guards are Jerian Grant and Jonathon Simmons you are being given a fair chance when the ball isn't coming your way after doing "the right thing" to get open.

But Magic really didn't miss out on Hezonja, he proved that he deserved all DNPs.
As for Wiggins, just example of overvaluing prospects based on blind faith.


Last paragraph about sharing floor with JS and Grant has some value, but over years Vučević menaged to have solid career despite this epic list:

Eflrid Payton, DJ Augustin, Ish Smith, MCW, Grant, Shabaz Napier, Beno Udrih, CJ Watson, Brandon Jennings, over a hill Nelson.

Same could be said for Gordon .

Problem with Bamba is what he wanted to do when he did play. And you can't blame Clifford for it because we see with Birch and Vučević what they do when they play.

Just look at this:
26 post ups
64 pick&roll , rollups
70 three point attemps

He seems to be more interested into doing nothing, waiting ball on side to shoot 3s than actually play like center. In general he seems to be more interested in shooting than doing anything else. Problem? He is pretty much horrific shooter all across the board ,from 3 ball, FT line and anywhere in game in between. ( around 30% on mid range shots).

[NavalAviator94]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Horford to Dallas is smoke. I'm not buying it. Dallas needs to spend their money elsewhere.

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

[pepe1991]

Horford went from most underrated to easly one of most overrated nba players

[ezzzp]

People who want Bamba to start care more about being right on internet than his health, or team.
Guy played 18 mpg and had to be DNPed from half of a season due fracture in leg, non conctact injury due overuse.

It's really not likely to be his 15 minutes of basketball per night that caused his injury. Stress fractures are from overuse of fatigued muscles. The muscles tire and the bones absorb more of the stress. I got a stress fracture in my leg from running 30 miles per week. I would expect that the training staff had to reevaluate his fitness program. It could also be due in part to poor mechanics.

The Q&A on Fultz with a medical professional that specializes in Neurology and Trauma in speaking about how Fultz TOS started, referred to Bamba's stress fractures and said they were due to stress load on the body, said he just wasn't ready for so much so soon.

[VFX]

People who want Bamba to start care more about being right on internet than his health, or team.
Guy played 18 mpg and had to be DNPed from half of a season due fracture in leg, non conctact injury due overuse.

What exactly do you think I want to be “right” about? Bamba doesn’t have to be starting right away this season, but you’d fully expect the #6 draft pick to be able to play starters minutes eventually. Birch can play and so can Portis. It still doesn’t absolutely mean Vuc has to be resigned because he wasn’t entirely capable last season to take ALL the minutes.

Because whole summer you are doing your best Skin impression, driven by one agenda you wiggle around angles, theories and half truths because you want Vučević gone.

The fact stands- 6th overall pick, Mohamed Bamba suffered from non contact injury after being held on 18 mpg. During his time with team he was one of the worst basketball players in whole league. His playing time was limited by his: skill, conditioning and inability to stay on court more.

Do you want your 6th pick to play more ? Sure, in theory. Would you like your 4th overall pick to play more if his name is Dragan Bender? Not every player that is picked high is star and will get unlimited amount of PT just because he was drafted high. Some players flat out suck. Bamba gave zero reasons to belive that he will ever be anything more than average player with limited offensive skill and pretty low motor.

For crying out loud guy had net rating of -17, among 530 players he made it to top 30 worst, that includes guy who played 1 min and guys like Jamal Crawford, Frye, Haslem who are 37+.

This is pro basketball league ,not charity event to give playing time for somebody. Earn your min. There are guys like Whiteside who were out of nba to earn $27M a year. There are guys like Thabeet who were lottery picks and out of nba in few years.
For we all know, there is no much difference today between Bamba and Maker. Can he be better ? Sure. But prove it by being at least servicable for start.

What’s your point? That’s not me “wanting to be right”, that’s called a preference... like I’d prefer not running an offense through Vucevic simply because the Center position is easily replaceable if the rest of the roster makes sense.

Nobody is saying Bamba deserves to start. Birch or Portis, at a fraction of his salary, could be serviceable until he can earn minutes. Rookies usually don’t perform well, and when they do it’s because they are in situations of opportunity. You wouldn’t make a decision to spend $20m+ to retain a C to a team that isn’t truly contending, and clearly seeking to look for other options, after also spending a high lottery pick to replace him.