The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[zaymon]

He made a huge improvement every offseason I am not worried about him. Even if his role is more of a Danny Green, KCP those are still extremely important players for nba champions.

[cedric76]

He has Heart, I love the guy

[Rainwater]

He made a huge improvement every offseason I am not worried about him. Even if his role is more of a Danny Green, KCP those are still extremely important players for nba champions.

I was thinking AG in Denver, but I agree.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

I'm so proud of this kid. He needs to keep improving but it was a pleasure. For him to play through the injury and was the heart and soul of this team, so happy to see his growth and I can't wait to see how much he improves this off season.

[Rainwater]

Congrats on making All-Defensive Second team!

[BadMofoPimp]

Hope Suggs plays his entire career in Orlando. Love defensive beasts.

[drsd]

Jalen Suggs (2024-2024) vs. Immanuel Quickley (2024-2024): Stats Comparison

stathead link: Jalen Suggs vs. Immanuel Quickley

With Quickley getting 35M a year, hard to see Suggs on less than 25M per, maybe 30M per.

If Suggs gets 25-30M per, this seems to guarantee a max deal for F-Wagner. Right?

[ibraheim718]

He had as much preparation time as Mobley, Barnes, Wagner or anybody else in that class.

Today almost nobody has "couple of years" to figure out.
Hampton is closer to not having 4th year picked than being awarded starting job to figure out.
Dennis Smith lasted 3 years before he started to bounce around.
Bender- 3 years and out
Culver- already out of nba
Cam Reddish - two teams, marginal role.

Now it's possible that Orlando sucks for next 3 years and continue to invest time into dead horse ( Mo Bamba syndrome, blame everybody but player for everything) but serious nba teams won't waste years to figure somebody isn't good.

This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba. And on top of that ,he isn't even very good playmaker. That's objective reality.

As i said above, for what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year.

For sake of argument, i wanted him over Barnes & thought he is excellent pickup. Half of year later i just don't have need to defend my previous opinions because he simply is playing bad basketball. Just like i'm fine with being wrong about Franz, who is exeeding expetations by long margin. And i'm happy to be wrong about it. just like i will be happy if Suggs "proves me wrong". But much like it was case with Fultz & his shooting and Payton and everything about him, i struggle to see that scenario as objective one.
You don't go mediocre highschool shooter, mediocre college shooter, dreadful nba rookie shooter into Dame Lillard. it doesn't work like that.

none of those players spent formative years playing 2 sports at an extremely high level (enough that he also had football scholarship offers). Wagner played professional club basketball in Germany before going to Michigan. So his development is different. And you can have a year or 2 to figure out it, because not all players spend 3-4 years in college working on their game. practically every player is draft nowadays on potential. Of the top-10 in last years draft, only 1 Junior. everyone else drafted on their potential. You have to give players a year or to with coaching to enable that potential. Except for future HOF's, many times it is about situation. As you have pointed out before. Kuminga or Barnes on the Magic would have been a train wreck. But with them on veteran teams, they can learn to play winning ball.

whatever, i fell back into this cycle of your statistical criticism of a rookie, while not allowing that a player can improve. Does Suggs improve? Well, he knows that he needs to work on his shot, so i will reserve judgement on him until i see him next year and if he spent the offseason working on his shot. By all accounts, he is a gym rat so i think he will put in the time. But just putting in the time doesnt guarantee success, so i will just have to wait and see

Westbrook is definition of gym rat but guess who's jumpshot actually regressed over time?
Shooting for guard isn't something that can easly be fixed. If you are off ball wing who gets 60% of shots up from catch&shoot and you have guys setting you up for corener 3s than being gym rat potentially can solve some of your shooting issues because your shooting is basically repeating same motion over and over again under same circumstances. (PJ Tucker who shoots almost nothing but corner 3s)
But being playmaker means you will be all over the floor and nobody will be there to create shots for you.
Luka, Harden, Trae are assisted on sub 25% of threes they make and below 20% twos. Opposte of some Huerter on 80% or center Capela on 76%.

Guard has to be good shooter, this isn't rocket science. Also teaching guard how to shoot, since most of his shots are not created by others is way harder than teaching one Jonathan Kuminga how not to be worthless if he gets ball in corner and nobody is 15 feet from him.

Just to have some tengable visuals of what i'm trying to say, this is Chris Paul shot chart



Very little 3s he get are corner 3s, most shots he makes are fairly identical in terms of efficiency. You can make healthy conclusion Chris Paul is average outside shooter and above average mid range shooter.
For career, 11% of all his twos were assited and 42,6% threes.

This is Huerter's shot chart, he is catch& shoot player and heavily assited on most of his attemps .He is career above average outside shooter and mid range isn't often part of his shooting, mostly because nba teams rarley run set plays for mid range shots.



For career Huerter is assisted on 45,5% twos and 84% threes


Jalen Suggs shot chart is all around red. He does not have single spot on the floor where he is even average nba shooter. Desciption below picture i will post is: floor is lava from Ringer, making fun of his shooting


34% of all his twos are assisted, and 64,8% for 3


One of logical solutions going forward is to do what teams did to Lonzo ( Bulls , Pelicans) . They made him set peace 3 point shooter only. Lonzo Ball entered nba being 3-16 from mid range at college. He never had that in him. Today, 5 years later, Lonzo Ball shoots no mid range shots whatsoever and most 3s he gets up are set peaces for him to be catch&shoot. Now, difference here is fact that Lonzo is much taller than average PG ( 6'7) and fact he spent whole career with at least 1 star player ( Lebron, Ingram, Derozan, Lavine, Vuc, Zion....) so he had more opportunities for those shots than he normally would if he played on worst teams.
Lonzo's shot chart is hilarius, it's like a glitch. He either goes for layups or shoot 3s.

This is his rookie chart



And this is his shot chart nowdays



One of reasons why this works for him comes from fact that teams gave up on idea of building teams around him years ago. He is complimentary peace, very good one for what he does, but nobody views him as guy who can be best or second best player on a team, including probably him, that's why he adjusted his game so he can be elite role player.

I'm not going to harp on Suggs for rest of a year and much like everybody else i will sit down and wait what he can do in offseason. I don't really care that he played other sport and "didn't have time" for basketball. That's his time menagment and his problem. I don't remember Spurs fans needing excuse for rookie Duncan becaue he wanted to become Olympic swimmer. Oh hell, Kris Humpries at one point held USA youth swimming record...
My issue at February 22, 2022 with Suggs is same issue i have with Fultz and i had with Payton. It's 2022 and your point guard can't shoot. Simple yet huge problem. Solvable? I don't know. Am i optimist about him being able to solve it, knowing most players can't ? Not really. But like i said to Skybox , i'm not "giving up on him", i'm not his parent. For all i know & care, he might get traded to Kings first day in offseason. I was never fan of players but team. So to me , they come, they go.

Dude was pulling out shot charts and everything. This post is absolutely pathetic and undeniably WRONG! Admit it already.. are you ready to eat crow and admit you were wrong and are terrible at projecting what young players can become????

[pepe1991]

knicks fan going full mental psycho again? aww

Last time around he claimed he can't be Knicks fan until Randle is gone ?

[msmoore66]

To be fair here, Pepe flat out said he can't predict what exactly Suggs would become:

"This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba."

[fendilim]

To be fair here, Pepe flat out said he can't predict what exactly Suggs would become:

"This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba."

Well, tbh, at that point in time, Suggs was a bad shooter. But majority really failed to see that he did improve from year 1 to year 2. I know if you look at the numbers as a whole it really is still bad, but there was a point in his year 2 that I pointed out his shooting number was improving. In fact he was hitting close to 50% of his mid-range jumpers at that time period.

Some guy apparently said Fultz was shooting better than Suggs which I debunked with facts. But all I get is I was cherrypicking. Some people just fail to look at things objectively. Lol

See viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2255440&p=103477594&hilit=Fultz+shoot+suggs+better#p103477594

This was January 2023, midseason of Suggs 2nd year

[fendilim]

none of those players spent formative years playing 2 sports at an extremely high level (enough that he also had football scholarship offers). Wagner played professional club basketball in Germany before going to Michigan. So his development is different. And you can have a year or 2 to figure out it, because not all players spend 3-4 years in college working on their game. practically every player is draft nowadays on potential. Of the top-10 in last years draft, only 1 Junior. everyone else drafted on their potential. You have to give players a year or to with coaching to enable that potential. Except for future HOF's, many times it is about situation. As you have pointed out before. Kuminga or Barnes on the Magic would have been a train wreck. But with them on veteran teams, they can learn to play winning ball.

whatever, i fell back into this cycle of your statistical criticism of a rookie, while not allowing that a player can improve. Does Suggs improve? Well, he knows that he needs to work on his shot, so i will reserve judgement on him until i see him next year and if he spent the offseason working on his shot. By all accounts, he is a gym rat so i think he will put in the time. But just putting in the time doesnt guarantee success, so i will just have to wait and see

Westbrook is definition of gym rat but guess who's jumpshot actually regressed over time?
Shooting for guard isn't something that can easly be fixed. If you are off ball wing who gets 60% of shots up from catch&shoot and you have guys setting you up for corener 3s than being gym rat potentially can solve some of your shooting issues because your shooting is basically repeating same motion over and over again under same circumstances. (PJ Tucker who shoots almost nothing but corner 3s)
But being playmaker means you will be all over the floor and nobody will be there to create shots for you.
Luka, Harden, Trae are assisted on sub 25% of threes they make and below 20% twos. Opposte of some Huerter on 80% or center Capela on 76%.

Guard has to be good shooter, this isn't rocket science. Also teaching guard how to shoot, since most of his shots are not created by others is way harder than teaching one Jonathan Kuminga how not to be worthless if he gets ball in corner and nobody is 15 feet from him.

Just to have some tengable visuals of what i'm trying to say, this is Chris Paul shot chart



Very little 3s he get are corner 3s, most shots he makes are fairly identical in terms of efficiency. You can make healthy conclusion Chris Paul is average outside shooter and above average mid range shooter.
For career, 11% of all his twos were assited and 42,6% threes.

This is Huerter's shot chart, he is catch& shoot player and heavily assited on most of his attemps .He is career above average outside shooter and mid range isn't often part of his shooting, mostly because nba teams rarley run set plays for mid range shots.



For career Huerter is assisted on 45,5% twos and 84% threes


Jalen Suggs shot chart is all around red. He does not have single spot on the floor where he is even average nba shooter. Desciption below picture i will post is: floor is lava from Ringer, making fun of his shooting


34% of all his twos are assisted, and 64,8% for 3


One of logical solutions going forward is to do what teams did to Lonzo ( Bulls , Pelicans) . They made him set peace 3 point shooter only. Lonzo Ball entered nba being 3-16 from mid range at college. He never had that in him. Today, 5 years later, Lonzo Ball shoots no mid range shots whatsoever and most 3s he gets up are set peaces for him to be catch&shoot. Now, difference here is fact that Lonzo is much taller than average PG ( 6'7) and fact he spent whole career with at least 1 star player ( Lebron, Ingram, Derozan, Lavine, Vuc, Zion....) so he had more opportunities for those shots than he normally would if he played on worst teams.
Lonzo's shot chart is hilarius, it's like a glitch. He either goes for layups or shoot 3s.

This is his rookie chart



And this is his shot chart nowdays



One of reasons why this works for him comes from fact that teams gave up on idea of building teams around him years ago. He is complimentary peace, very good one for what he does, but nobody views him as guy who can be best or second best player on a team, including probably him, that's why he adjusted his game so he can be elite role player.

I'm not going to harp on Suggs for rest of a year and much like everybody else i will sit down and wait what he can do in offseason. I don't really care that he played other sport and "didn't have time" for basketball. That's his time menagment and his problem. I don't remember Spurs fans needing excuse for rookie Duncan becaue he wanted to become Olympic swimmer. Oh hell, Kris Humpries at one point held USA youth swimming record...
My issue at February 22, 2022 with Suggs is same issue i have with Fultz and i had with Payton. It's 2022 and your point guard can't shoot. Simple yet huge problem. Solvable? I don't know. Am i optimist about him being able to solve it, knowing most players can't ? Not really. But like i said to Skybox , i'm not "giving up on him", i'm not his parent. For all i know & care, he might get traded to Kings first day in offseason. I was never fan of players but team. So to me , they come, they go.

Dude was pulling out shot charts and everything. This post is absolutely pathetic and undeniably WRONG! Admit it already.. are you ready to eat crow and admit you were wrong and are terrible at projecting what young players can become????

To be fair to pepe, you go all the way back to search this quoted post of his, but you didnt see just 2 pages back, he did admit he was wrong? Go open your eyes and read. Sheesh.