Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[Furinkazan]

Our team build seems similar to the Pelicans.

Edit: Who would you rather have, Zion and Ingram it Franz and Paolo?

minus McCollum type of a shooter?

[eyriq]

Our team build seems similar to the Pelicans.

Edit: Who would you rather have, Zion and Ingram it Franz and Paolo?

minus McCollum type of a shooter?

Yeah, you could use this as a baseline for missing archetypes if you think they've surrounded their core correctly.

[drsd]

i do not understand talk about mo magic have team option all they have to do is want him back..and they will there is no problem?

In 2025/26, M-Wagner will be unaffordable. So assuming the Magic retain him for next year (very probable), then he is probably playing out his contract to join another team the year after.

[Knightro]

So, who is with me on the Claxton train?

I'm with you. I think most peoples ideas of who to acquire are dumb.

We just put two picks into guards. Time to invest into C.

YOLO to 1st defense!

EXACTLY! People willfully wanting to allocate resources in such an inefficient manner hurts my soul.

The difference is guards can play together in the vast majority of cases and bigs cannot.

So if you get Claxton, he’s a one position player and Carter would have to go.

If you got… just for hypothetical sake… Jrue Holiday, he could play at the same time as any other guard on the roster.

[drsd]

Our team build seems similar to the Pelicans.

Edit: Who would you rather have, Zion and Ingram or Franz and Paolo?

This is where I expect Stephen Smith to state, "Is that a question?"

I am sure 90% of Magic fans have their answer. But I think if you asked Pelicans fans, Orlando's duo might win there also.

[Knightro]

The way I see it…

Bringing in Claxton basically means Carter is either off the team or is shuffled down into a role that is too small to justify his contract.

The Magic could acquire a point guard and still play Suggs 30 MPG and Black 25 MPG next season.

[RichCollab]

The way I see it…

Bringing in Claxton basically means Carter is either off the team or is shuffled down into a role that is too small to justify his contract.

The Magic could acquire a point guard and still play Suggs 30 MPG and Black 25 MPG next season.

I don’t think Claxton moves this team much replacing WCJ.

Starting Guard and Vet Shooter move us though.

I’m not opposed to trading WCJ if it brings back that starting guard but they have to be a pretty big upgrade.

[byeganyo]

Our team build seems similar to the Pelicans.

Edit: Who would you rather have, Zion and Ingram it Franz and Paolo?

minus McCollum type of a shooter?

Yeah, you could use this as a baseline for missing archetypes if you think they've surrounded their core correctly.

Yep and they made a very good deal for him - a 31y old, 20 ppg player with playoff experience for one protected 1st round pick and couple of 2nd round picks...

[eyriq]

I'm with you. I think most peoples ideas of who to acquire are dumb.

We just put two picks into guards. Time to invest into C.

YOLO to 1st defense!

EXACTLY! People willfully wanting to allocate resources in such an inefficient manner hurts my soul.

The difference is guards can play together in the vast majority of cases and bigs cannot.

So if you get Claxton, he’s a one position player and Carter would have to go.

If you got… just for hypothetical sake… Jrue Holiday, he could play at the same time as any other guard on the roster.

It comes down to efficient use of assets. We have three lottery picks invested in the backcourt. Suggs is a lock to start, AB and Jett both need a path to minutes to develop. Cole is signed through two more seasons.

Bringing in a guard for significant money will block Jett and crowd the backcourt. I mean I don't hate it but you are consciously blocking your lottery picks from getting developed.

Bringing in Claxton is going to cost a lot but he doesn't block anyone's development and we have evidence that we perform better with paint protection. I'm also particularly high on Claxton.

I think AB is ready to start. I think the starting lineup with Goga and AB was one of our better lineups. I think Claxton is an upgrade over Goga. A starting lineup of AB, Suggs, Franz, Paolo, Claxton is a thing of beauty. We have all four of our main lotto picks starting and Claxton who's a stud in and of himself. French kiss right there.

[Skybox]

EXACTLY! People willfully wanting to allocate resources in such an inefficient manner hurts my soul.

The difference is guards can play together in the vast majority of cases and bigs cannot.

So if you get Claxton, he’s a one position player and Carter would have to go.

If you got… just for hypothetical sake… Jrue Holiday, he could play at the same time as any other guard on the roster.

It comes down to efficient use of assets. We have three lottery picks invested in the backcourt. Suggs is a lock to start, AB and Jett both need a path to minutes to develop. Cole is signed through two more seasons.

Bringing in a guard for significant money will block Jett and crowd the backcourt. I mean I don't hate it but you are consciously blocking your lottery picks from getting developed.

Bringing in Claxton is going to cost a lot but he doesn't block anyone's development and we have evidence that we perform better with paint protection. I'm also particularly high on Claxton.

I think AB is ready to start. I think the starting lineup with Goga and AB was one of our better lineups. I think Claxton is an upgrade over Goga. A starting lineup of AB, Suggs, Franz, Paolo, Claxton is a thing of beauty. We have all four of our main lotto picks starting and Claxton who's a stud in and of himself. French kiss right there.

I'm all for bringing in Claxton as a FA and trading (WCJ + picks?) for a guard...a starting guard who can score. Bringing in Claxton without backcourt scoring would demolish our stagnant offense even further. Scoring from the backcourt and improved rim protection would be a much more well-balanced, functional team - on both ends.

Just moving WCJ out for Claxton makes us worse.

Dream A-level: Claxton and Simons or Murray
Dream B-level: Claxton and Brogdon or Monk
Dream C-level: Claxton and GTJ, Grayson Allen, and/or Tyus Jones
...I love a backcourt reserve of AB, Cole, Jett, Houstan...maybe even bring back Harris if cap allows and FO has little faith in Jett
Nightmare for opponents and fans of offense: Claxton in/AB starting...expect to lose 65-59 most nights

[thelead]

Fix the guard issue first. Getting a guy like Claxton isn't that difficult.

[RichCollab]

EXACTLY! People willfully wanting to allocate resources in such an inefficient manner hurts my soul.

The difference is guards can play together in the vast majority of cases and bigs cannot.

So if you get Claxton, he’s a one position player and Carter would have to go.

If you got… just for hypothetical sake… Jrue Holiday, he could play at the same time as any other guard on the roster.

It comes down to efficient use of assets. We have three lottery picks invested in the backcourt. Suggs is a lock to start, AB and Jett both need a path to minutes to develop. Cole is signed through two more seasons.

Bringing in a guard for significant money will block Jett and crowd the backcourt. I mean I don't hate it but you are consciously blocking your lottery picks from getting developed.

Bringing in Claxton is going to cost a lot but he doesn't block anyone's development and we have evidence that we perform better with paint protection. I'm also particularly high on Claxton.

I think AB is ready to start. I think the starting lineup with Goga and AB was one of our better lineups. I think Claxton is an upgrade over Goga. A starting lineup of AB, Suggs, Franz, Paolo, Claxton is a thing of beauty. We have all four of our main lotto picks starting and Claxton who's a stud in and of himself. French kiss right there.

Our offense is bad enough. No thank you. WCJ is a better fit with AB than Claxton.

We are removing 2 barriers to Jett and Black letting Fultz and Harris walk. Also, I feel Jett will get minutes at SF and SG.

We desperately need to upgrade our guard play and it needs to be a shooter in the starting lineup.

[Knightro]

It comes down to efficient use of assets. We have three lottery picks invested in the backcourt. Suggs is a lock to start, AB and Jett both need a path to minutes to develop. Cole is signed through two more seasons.

It's not though.

It's about building the best team and putting the best lineups on the floor to win as much as possible.

Where Black and Howard were drafted is irrelevant at this point.

[eyriq]

It comes down to efficient use of assets. We have three lottery picks invested in the backcourt. Suggs is a lock to start, AB and Jett both need a path to minutes to develop. Cole is signed through two more seasons.

It's not though.

It's about building the best team and putting the best lineups on the floor to win as much as possible.

Where Black and Howard were drafted is irrelevant at this point.

Efficient use of assets implies that by doing so you are building the best team. Blocking the development of lotto talent is not an efficient use of assets and therefore is not a step towards building the best team.

It's actually an indication of conflicted vision and weak leadership. You see lotto talent get blocked in circumstances where executive leadership is weak and there are dueling factions, with the tides of power shifting away from one plan to another.

Weltman is neither weak nor politically vulnerable. He's got a plan and is going to be patient in executing that plan. I would wager he feels very good about his draft picks and sees them filling a role on the team sooner rather than later. So where AB and Jett were drafted is extremely relevant at this point.

[cedric76]

I was looking for monk s wingspan, (which is 6'7 by the way) and came across this predraft article from draft express:

"Monk is best next to a big point guard who can run the show, and has the size to defend twos, as the Bentonville, Arkansas native lacks the ideal physical tools to check most shooting guards. Elfrid Payton fits that description, and the Orlando Magic are in dire need of shooting, which could make this a decent marriage for newly appointed executives Jeff Weltman and John Hammond. A lineup of Payton, Monk, Ross/Hezonja, Gordon, and Biyombo/Vucevic, while still not ideal, is certainly intriguing, and Monk would give the Magic the potential 20 point per game scorer it currently lacks. Whether the Magic are high enough on Monk to take him at six is definitely in question, however, as it appears that Jonathan Isaac has established himself as a top-six player in this draft. Monk could fit next to a bigger, defensive-minded guard, like Kris Dunn (who has some similarities to Payton), - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Malik-Monk-7243/ ©DraftExpress"

Monk would be such a nice fit next to suggs

Offer a 85M/4 front loaded to Monk (more Money+ starting gig than sac can offer him )

Pick team option on Moe+ Joe (I think he ll end up a player coach for us ala Haslem)

Sign a min vet frontcourt player (I d like to keep giga but I think someone will offer him too much money)

Draft a Big with high potential


Suggs, AB, Cole
Monk, Jett , Cole
Franz, Houstan , Joe
PB, JI , vet
Wcj , Moe , draft

[JoshuaPotter]

It comes down to efficient use of assets. We have three lottery picks invested in the backcourt. Suggs is a lock to start, AB and Jett both need a path to minutes to develop. Cole is signed through two more seasons.

It's not though.

It's about building the best team and putting the best lineups on the floor to win as much as possible.

Where Black and Howard were drafted is irrelevant at this point.

Efficient use of assets implies that by doing so you are building the best team. Blocking the development of lotto talent is not an efficient use of assets and therefore is not a step towards building the best team.

It's actually an indication of conflicted vision and weak leadership. You see lotto talent get blocked in circumstances where executive leadership is weak and there are dueling factions, with the tides of power shifting away from one plan to another.

Weltman is neither weak nor politically vulnerable. He's got a plan and is going to be patient in executing that plan. I would wager he feels very good about his draft picks and sees them filling a role on the team sooner rather than later. So where AB and Jett were drafted is extremely relevant at this point.

Dude, ill say it so nobody else does.

Our organization is telegraphing that if it does anything its likely with a big or mediocre overpaid for vets.

Nobody here is that unreasonable that we can't agree that we need scoring from somewhere and a better bruiser then WCJ.

Ah but here is where we go back to Mario Hezonia and Elfrid Payton. Where draft picks in guard investment that was the "wrong person" crippled our growth.

With the new crop of management, do we believe in our organizations ability to select picks? So far, they got, Cole / Houstan / Suggs / Franz / Paolo / Black / Jett. Up until this point, we wouldn't have questioned developing picks and having faith in the org. Now, the baby is tossed out with the bath water and we MUST get better upgrades today?

The way I have seen it is coach Mose extension indicates the double down on the core has begun. What is the core? Right now for sure it is P+F+S. I will be watching REALLY REALLY closely now that Mose has a millionaire contract what and who he plays, his reasoning, and so on and so forth to identify who the core is going forward.

[Knightro]

Efficient use of assets implies that by doing so you are building the best team. Blocking the development of lotto talent is not an efficient use of assets and therefore is not a step towards building the best team.

It's actually an indication of conflicted vision and weak leadership. You see lotto talent get blocked in circumstances where executive leadership is weak and there are dueling factions, with the tides of power shifting away from one plan to another.

Weltman is neither weak nor politically vulnerable. He's got a plan and is going to be patient in executing that plan. I would wager he feels very good about his draft picks and sees them filling a role on the team sooner rather than later. So where AB and Jett were drafted is extremely relevant at this point.

I completely disagree with this.

And I want to preface this next thing by saying I am *not* suggesting Black or Howard are sunk costs, but you're really describing the sunk cost fallacy here.

Where Black and Howard were drafted is now completely irrelevant to their future roles on the team.

We already went through this once with this front office when it came to Mo Bamba. It was abundantly clear very early into Mo's career that he sucked and the Magic kept playing him anyway only because they invested a high draft pick in him. And I say all that as someone who defended both Mo and the front office repeatedly in the moment and ended up being quite wrong.

Times have changed though. This isn't a "nothing matters because we're trying to lose anyway" situation anymore.

If Jett Howard stinks (I'm not saying he does, but *if* he does), then he doesn't deserve to play over a veteran who is better than him just because he was a lottery pick.

The Magic have established that they're taking winning seriously now, so the days of giving minutes and roles to guys just based on draft slot is not a thing (or at least it shouldn't be) moving forward.

[JoshuaPotter]

Efficient use of assets implies that by doing so you are building the best team. Blocking the development of lotto talent is not an efficient use of assets and therefore is not a step towards building the best team.

It's actually an indication of conflicted vision and weak leadership. You see lotto talent get blocked in circumstances where executive leadership is weak and there are dueling factions, with the tides of power shifting away from one plan to another.

Weltman is neither weak nor politically vulnerable. He's got a plan and is going to be patient in executing that plan. I would wager he feels very good about his draft picks and sees them filling a role on the team sooner rather than later. So where AB and Jett were drafted is extremely relevant at this point.

I completely disagree with this.

And I want to preface this next thing by saying I am *not* suggesting Black or Howard are sunk costs, but you're really describing the sunk cost fallacy here.

Where Black and Howard were drafted is now completely irrelevant to their future roles on the team.

We already went through this once with this front office when it came to Mo Bamba. It was abundantly clear very early into Mo's career that he sucked and the Magic kept playing him anyway only because they invested a high draft pick in him. And I say all that as someone who defended both Mo and the front office repeatedly in the moment and ended up being quite wrong.

Times have changed though. This isn't a "nothing matters because we're trying to lose anyway" situation anymore.

If Jett Howard stinks (I'm not saying he does, but *if* he does), then he doesn't deserve to play over a veteran who is better than him just because he was a lottery pick.

The Magic have established that they're taking winning seriously now, so the days of giving minutes and roles to guys just based on draft slot is not a thing (or at least it shouldn't be) moving forward.

There is taking winning seriously and there is taking it serious.

I think winning is important with the current squad above all else right now. I do not know how that will change this upcoming offseason. I am just prepared for my usual disappointment.

I am sold that this group of ownership will still acquire twilight career veterans in a hope to open a pathway for Jett / Black to get some burn.

I'm not worried about the Jett Howard pick. I see him a lot like JJ Reddick who took years before his defense was good enough to work.

Black is interesting. Projections don't look good, yet projections might also be broken depending on how far down the looking glass you want to go.

I do not see us upgrading our backcourt as much as taking the money from Fultz / Harris and possibly getting a solid 14-15 ppg vet who can play defense and bring the kids along. This is not what it is going to happen, but think someone like Klay who should be able to do that.

[eyriq]

Efficient use of assets implies that by doing so you are building the best team. Blocking the development of lotto talent is not an efficient use of assets and therefore is not a step towards building the best team.

It's actually an indication of conflicted vision and weak leadership. You see lotto talent get blocked in circumstances where executive leadership is weak and there are dueling factions, with the tides of power shifting away from one plan to another.

Weltman is neither weak nor politically vulnerable. He's got a plan and is going to be patient in executing that plan. I would wager he feels very good about his draft picks and sees them filling a role on the team sooner rather than later. So where AB and Jett were drafted is extremely relevant at this point.

I completely disagree with this.

And I want to preface this next thing by saying I am *not* suggesting Black or Howard are sunk costs, but you're really describing the sunk cost fallacy here.

Where Black and Howard were drafted is now completely irrelevant to their future roles on the team.

We already went through this once with this front office when it came to Mo Bamba. It was abundantly clear very early into Mo's career that he sucked and the Magic kept playing him anyway only because they invested a high draft pick in him. And I say all that as someone who defended both Mo and the front office repeatedly in the moment and ended up being quite wrong.

Times have changed though. This isn't a "nothing matters because we're trying to lose anyway" situation anymore.

If Jett Howard stinks (I'm not saying he does, but *if* he does), then he doesn't deserve to play over a veteran who is better than him just because he was a lottery pick.

The Magic have established that they're taking winning seriously now, so the days of giving minutes and roles to guys just based on draft slot is not a thing (or at least it shouldn't be) moving forward.

Ignoring the potential and development needs of lottery talents is a bad strategy, and expecting the team to do so is wishful thinking. Draft position, especially for lottery talent, is indicative of the player's potential ceiling AND the resources the team is willing to invest in reaching that ceiling. With Jett and Black it isn't about sunk costs, that's actually ridiculous to even introduce at this stage, it's about strategically developing assets that could significantly impact the team's future success. Disregarding their development could be a significant misstep and it's just not something I think the team's going to do.

Also, it's not necessarily a trade-off between winning now and developing AB and Jett. We're winning now and AB's played a critical role. Also, I think integrating AB and Jett into a winning culture and a winning environment will have a bigger return on their development.

[VFX]

It’s not really about where the two guards were drafted. There needs to be some kind of experience in the back court. Nobody is reliable enough to finish out games at the point guard spot.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t move Carter and acquire a guy like Claxton, but Orlando’s 3pt shooting and overall ball movement is very bad. He doesn’t really solve that or move the needle.

Like JoshuaPotter said… Orlando is going to throw some ridiculous money at a veteran guy that’s washed up and everyone will be shocked. It’s what this organization does. Yes, the Magic are in the basement in terms of 3pt shooting but it’s more about the ball movement than having the guys out there to actually shoot. The ball movement and spacing was better earlier in the season and has completely fallen off a cliff.

I’ve been screaming this all season… it’s not about plugging some random volume shooting guard into a lineup and believing everything is solved. The teams glaring deficiencies aren’t solved by one guy running off screens and jacking up shots. It’s solved by the offense running more efficiently at the point of attack AND being able to hit shots when the opportunity arises. There isn’t a point guard that does both of those things efficiently on the roster and it’s kinda important.