It's draft DAY! Who should we take at 16? (Poll)

Ducklett · Post #161 » by **Ducklett** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:00 am

Herro looks like a less athletic Mario. I would pass very, very easy.

BlueBalls · Post #162 » by **BlueBalls** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:50 am

You go for the guy who has the most potential in a draft like this at #16. To me, that's likely going to be KPJ assuming a guy like Semou doesn't slide.

basketballRob · Post #163 » by **basketballRob** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:07 pm

BlueBalls wrote:You go for the guy who has the most potential in a draft like this at #16. To me, that's likely going to be KPJ assuming a guy like Semou doesn't slide.

Doesn't he seem a lot like Josh Jackson? He brings his shot from below his waist to shoot. Plus like Jackson he has off the court issues.

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Tarheel · Post #164 » by **Tarheel** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:13 pm

The more tape I watch and research I do, the more I want NAW at 16 (barring any unforeseen player falling).

He fits in with our mould, is very skillful and reads the game well. The fact that he is skinny doesn't bother me that much, nor does his average leaping ability. The fact that he could conceivably play either guard position is a bonus. I think he'll be a real pickup if we can get him where we are drafting.

MasterGMer · Post #165 » by **MasterGMer** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:04 pm

Has anybody watched Herro's high school highlight. The dude was a beast scoring 40+ per game. Very skilled and more than a shooter.

I think he has a very high ceiling plus we need shooters. (I want Ross too, so both)

KillMonger · Post #166 » by **KillMonger** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:21 pm

zaymon wrote:
Solid Snake wrote:
Skin wrote:It matters at every position. All the more advantage.

Herro's 3pt% is not good in college but people are talking about him like he's a 45% 3pt NBA shooter because in workouts, against no one, he's lights out.

I think the reason why it didn't translate at Kentucky is because he doesn't create separation and doesn't have the length to shoot over defenders.

I like him as a guy off the bench but not as a starter. Come playoff time when basketball starts being based on matchups, Herro will be a liability on defense and struggle to get clean looks on offense. There seem to be better options out there. I think a good comparison for Herro at his best is Fournier.

Maybe fournier+ because at least with herro you'll get consistent effort defensively and he'll actually pass the ball....i'll take a better fournier at #16 as an off the bench guy....i don't think anyone expects a starter at 16 do they?

I never saw Fournier defensive effort questioned. He doesnt have elite tools but he always hustles and still his tools.are way better than Herro's. I think expecting Herro to be Fournier+ is approach to be disappointed.

I disagree but that's fine with me, all the guys around #16 is at a similar level give or take.

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fendilim · Post #167 » by **fendilim** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:37 pm

zaymon wrote:
Solid Snake wrote:
Skin wrote:It matters at every position. All the more advantage.

Herro's 3pt% is not good in college but people are talking about him like he's a 45% 3pt NBA shooter because in workouts, against no one, he's lights out.

I think the reason why it didn't translate at Kentucky is because he doesn't create separation and doesn't have the length to shoot over defenders.

I like him as a guy off the bench but not as a starter. Come playoff time when basketball starts being based on matchups, Herro will be a liability on defense and struggle to get clean looks on offense. There seem to be better options out there. I think a good comparison for Herro at his best is Fournier.

Maybe fournier+ because at least with herro you'll get consistent effort defensively and he'll actually pass the ball....i'll take a better fournier at #16 as an off the bench guy....i don't think anyone expects a starter at 16 do they?

I never saw Fournier defensive effort questioned. He doesnt have elite tools but he always hustles and still his tools.are way better than Herro's. I think expecting Herro to be Fournier+ is approach to be disappointed.

I agree.

Honestly don't really like how we're even expecting Herro to be better than Fournier when Fournier is already a proven NBA player, while Herro isn't even a top talent to begin with.

MartinsIzAfraud · Post #168 » by **MartinsIzAfraud** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:43 pm

Wouldn't be shocked to see this FO trade away the 2nd round pick for future 2nd round pick... it's like clockwork

drsd · Post #169 » by **drsd** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:38 pm

I think we are all settled for Alexander-Walker. I think that is a value selection at #16.

Tarheel · Post #170 » by **Tarheel** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:16 pm

drsd wrote:I think we are all settled for Alexander-Walker. I think that is a value selection at #16.

Same. I think if he's not there when we pick we'll trade back to shed Moz or Fournier's contract (w/ Cavs for 27 & JR).

drsd · Post #171 » by **drsd** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:44 pm

Tarheel wrote:Same. I think if he's not there when we pick we'll trade back to shed Moz or Fournier's contract (w/ Cavs for 27 & JR).

Outright there might be value in Orlando trading Fournier and #16 for Smith and #27. I will tab KZ Okpala in that slot for the below conversation, but Kevin Porter is equally slot-able.

Retaining Smith over the season with a resign of Vučević and Ross, the roster becomes something like:
Augustin/Fultz/Carter-Williams
Ross/Smith/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/vet-FA
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

This places the Magic to swing large in the 2020 off-season for as Mozgov and Smith coming off the books

Tarheel · Post #172 » by **Tarheel** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:50 pm

drsd wrote:
Tarheel wrote:Same. I think if he's not there when we pick we'll trade back to shed Moz or Fournier's contract (w/ Cavs for 27 & JR).

Outright there might be value in Orlando trading Fournier and #16 for Smith and #27. I will tab KZ Okpala in that slot for the below conversation, but Kevin Porter is equally slot-able.

Retaining Smith over the season with a resign of Vučević and Ross, the roster becomes something like:
Augustin/Fultz/Carter-Williams
Ross/Smith/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/vet-FA
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

This places the Magic to swing large in the 2020 off-season for as Mozgov and Smith coming off the books

I think we'd cut JR - his salary is one of the old partially guaranteed ones. I think there's only like 3 or 4 million guaranteed.

swarlesbarkley · Post #173 » by **swarlesbarkley** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:53 pm

drsd wrote:
Tarheel wrote:Same. I think if he's not there when we pick we'll trade back to shed Moz or Fournier's contract (w/ Cavs for 27 & JR).

Outright there might be value in Orlando trading Fournier and #16 for Smith and #27. I will tab KZ Okpala in that slot for the below conversation, but Kevin Porter is equally slot-able.

Retaining Smith over the season with a resign of Vučević and Ross, the roster becomes something like:
Augustin/Fultz/Carter-Williams
Ross/Smith/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/vet-FA
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

This places the Magic to swing large in the 2020 off-season for as Mozgov and Smith coming off the books

I'd be on board with that. #27 has been pretty huge the last 6 years:

2018: Robert Williams
2017: Kyle Kuzma
2016: Pascal Siakam
2015: Larry Nance Jr.
2014: Bogdan Bogdanovic
2013: Rudy Gobert

drsd · Post #174 » by **drsd** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:57 pm

Tarheel wrote:
drsd wrote:
Tarheel wrote:Same. I think if he's not there when we pick we'll trade back to shed Moz or Fournier's contract (w/ Cavs for 27 & JR).

Outright there might be value in Orlando trading Fournier and #16 for Smith and #27. I will tab KZ Okpala in that slot for the below conversation, but Kevin Porter is equally slot-able.

Retaining Smith over the season with a resign of Vučević and Ross, the roster becomes something like:
Augustin/Fultz/Carter-Williams
Ross/Smith/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/vet-FA
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

This places the Magic to swing large in the 2020 off-season for as Mozgov and Smith coming off the books

I think we'd cut JR - his salary is one of the old partially guaranteed ones. I think there's only like 3 or 4 million guaranteed.

This makes sense only if Orlando thinks a reserve SG AND a reserve PF can be found in the ~11M left over, where BOTH players would need to be signing one-year deals. You might be right. This is 3-dimensional chess and beyond my capacity to comment on.

..

Tarheel · Post #175 » by **Tarheel** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:09 pm

drsd wrote:
Tarheel wrote:
drsd wrote:

Outright there might be value in Orlando trading Fournier and #16 for Smith and #27. I will tab KZ Okpala in that slot for the below conversation, but Kevin Porter is equally slot-able.

Retaining Smith over the season with a resign of Vučević and Ross, the roster becomes something like:
Augustin/Fultz/Carter-Williams
Ross/Smith/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/vet-FA
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

This places the Magic to swing large in the 2020 off-season for as Mozgov and Smith coming off the books

I think we'd cut JR - his salary is one of the old partially guaranteed ones. I think there's only like 3 or 4 million guaranteed.

This makes sense only if Orlando thinks a reserve SG AND a reserve PF can be found in the ~11M left over, where BOTH players would need to be signing one-year deals. You might be right. This is 3-dimensional chess and beyond my capacity to comment on.

..

I'm more of the mind that we let Vuc walk this summer (other than in the unlikely event a S&T can be found) in favour of upgrading the backcourt in free agency. With that in mind I'd be aiming at Moz + 16 for JR + 27. Cut JR and shoot for a D'Lo/Brogdon/Middleton (I appreciate that this is risky and requires other dominos to fall).

D'Lo/Fultz/DJ/Briscoe
Fournier/Ross/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu
AG/Isaac
Birch/Bamba

Still has a hole at the backup 4, but I'm sure Burns & Smithers should be able to get a cheap stopgap (I don't hate Jarrell - thought we should have used him more last year).

The problem with punting our capspace to next summer is that there is sweet FA available on the market.

BlueBalls · Post #176 » by **BlueBalls** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:08 pm

basketballRob wrote:
BlueBalls wrote:You go for the guy who has the most potential in a draft like this at #16. To me, that's likely going to be KPJ assuming a guy like Semou doesn't slide.
Doesn't he seem a lot like Josh Jackson? He brings his shot from below his waist to shoot. Plus like Jackson he has off the court issues.

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He's definitely got the off-court issues, but at #16, I can handle that.

His jumper looks a lot more like Harden's than Jackson's.

MartinsIzAfraud · Post #177 » by **MartinsIzAfraud** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:18 pm

Tarheel wrote:
drsd wrote:
Tarheel wrote:
I think we'd cut JR - his salary is one of the old partially guaranteed ones. I think there's only like 3 or 4 million guaranteed.

This makes sense only if Orlando thinks a reserve SG AND a reserve PF can be found in the ~11M left over, where BOTH players would need to be signing one-year deals. You might be right. This is 3-dimensional chess and beyond my capacity to comment on.

..

I'm more of the mind that we let Vuc walk this summer (other than in the unlikely event a S&T can be found) in favour of upgrading the backcourt in free agency. With that in mind I'd be aiming at Moz + 16 for JR + 27. Cut JR and shoot for a D'Lo/Brogdon/Middleton (I appreciate that this is risky and requires other dominos to fall).

D'Lo/Fultz/DJ/Briscoe
Fournier/Ross/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu
AG/Isaac
Birch/Bamba

Still has a hole at the backup 4, but I'm sure Burns & Smithers should be able to get a cheap stopgap (I don't hate Jarrell - thought we should have used him more last year).

The problem with punting our capspace to next summer is that there is sweet FA available on the market.

Trading Moz & 16 for JR and 27 while renouncing everyone but Birch + TRoss only gives us 14M in Cap Space. For any chance at DLo it will need to be EF + 2020 pick for JR then stretch/waive Mozgov. Would open up 26.8M in space and we could then offer DLo a deal and go over for TRoss + Birch.

DLo/ DJ /Fultz
TRoss/16th pick
AG/Iwundu
Isaac/Iwundu/46?
Birch/Bamba

Patrick1978 · Post #178 » by **Patrick1978** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:27 pm

drsd wrote:I think we are all settled for Alexander-Walker. I think that is a value selection at #16.

Alexander-Walker could very well be gone at 16.

Patrick1978 · Post #179 » by **Patrick1978** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:33 pm

drsd wrote:
Tarheel wrote:Same. I think if he's not there when we pick we'll trade back to shed Moz or Fournier's contract (w/ Cavs for 27 & JR).

Outright there might be value in Orlando trading Fournier and #16 for Smith and #27. I will tab KZ Okpala in that slot for the below conversation, but Kevin Porter is equally slot-able.

Retaining Smith over the season with a resign of Vučević and Ross, the roster becomes something like:
Augustin/Fultz/Carter-Williams
Ross/Smith/Okpala
Isaac/Iwundu/Frazier
Gordon/vet-FA
Vučević/Bamba/Mozgov

This places the Magic to swing large in the 2020 off-season for as Mozgov and Smith coming off the books

Imo okpala and porter will be gone before 27.

Message Boar · Post #180 » by **Message Boar** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:34 pm

Patrick1978 wrote:
drsd wrote:I think we are all settled for Alexander-Walker. I think that is a value selection at #16.

Alexander-Walker could very well be gone at 16.

^Yep. For example Detroit still picks just ahead and they have more or less the same needs as us. Everybody here needs to be mentally prepared that they will grab someone we/you want. Or we could trade back.

That being said, usually when I just get into the draft I'll end up liking someone in our range at that time and then as time passes that prospect will rise out of our range. I expected that to happen with NAW but it doesn't seem to have transpired here. Most mocks still have him in our range (if not exactly to us). I'm not truly in love with Alexander-Walker anyway, but I like him. He seems like a safe pick that fits a bunch of things we need.

Who should we select?