The German elephant in the room.

[fateis007]

this baby is aging well

[thelead]

this baby is aging well

I’m very hopeful but it’s way too early to be celebrating a turnaround of what has been a year long slump.

[eyriq]

this baby is aging well

I’m very hopeful but it’s way too early to be celebrating a turnaround of what has been a year long slump.

There is nothing to celebrate because he's never slumped. He was a stud last season and is getting better.

[thelead]

this baby is aging well

I’m very hopeful but it’s way too early to be celebrating a turnaround of what has been a year long slump.

There is nothing to celebrate because he's never slumped. He was a stud last season and is getting better.

I should have specified about the 3pt slump because you’re right. He was damned good even with the horrid 28% 3pt shooting last year.

[ibraheim718]

The key for Franz is attacking the basket early then taking the 3's because he'll have more space.

[SOUL]

German Elephant confirmed new nickname

[J-Mezzy]

The elephant in the room is us for doubting him lol

[Skybox]

The key for Franz is attacking the basket early then taking the 3's because he'll have more space.

Agreed..I’d add that I don’t recall seeing a player using their length so effectively at the rim…he’s always full-extension (just in case). Really well-coached from a young age. Doesn’t hurt that he’s so long at the same time. If he can get that arc in his shot and keep firing away…he’s a very complete player.

[RichCollab]

Franz had his best season last year. He had a down year shooting.

[Residual-Heat]

Thats cool. Franz and Paolo are better than they were at their age though, and will IMO be better soon .

Ofcourse in the end they won a chip and proved everyone wrong, but there were a lot of people saying that they should be broken up, even some Celtics fans. Talking about how the fit isnt ideal, and frankly there is some truth to that. They have a stacked team, have had stacked teams and elite coaches most of their careers, but Tatum and Brown never really played that well off each other.
For context here are some stats from last season:
Tatum assists to Brown + Brown assists to Tatum= 43+ 31= 74
Paolo assists to Franz+ Franz assists to Paolo= 81+ 50= 131

Thats almost twice as many assists. Its a massive difference. Paolo and Franz were in their second year together. Tatum and Brown were in their 7th season together.

Whats the argument for breaking up Paolo and Franz? They had a very successful season last year winning 47 games in their 2nd season together and they did it as the clear best players on their team. They are still on their rookie contracts. Some people need to chill and enjoy their growth, they're on the right track. Paolo's 3 is improving and Franz has shown he can be a good enough shooter.

Last paragraph and especially the bolded part. Spot on.

Also, sometimes I think we just have to take a step back, not everything is about stats/numbers/data and lord forbid, even winning (GASP!!!!). Watching the Olympics and managed to get the fam to watch some of the bball and specifically the German NT and I was freaking proud to point out Franz and explain his game etc. Even the family members who don't watch much bball could appreciate how he plays.

I guess where I am going with that is there is more then just the stats and even results, the FO probably loves the way Franz competes, hones his craft and approaches the game. Sometimes those things are more important (or just as important). Just enjoy.

But who are people who are arguing about splitting Paolo and Franz? Not me. Hardly anybody on real.gm sub. Hardly anybody on general board. Some delusional reddit fans ?

Ofcourse in the end they won a chip and proved everyone wrong

Again, by "everyone" you mean clueless morons who know jack s*** about basketball as they watch 43 sec of basketball on twitter and argue based on that, because that's length of their attention span?

Rookie Tatum and 21 years old Brown won 55 games. And went to CF game 7.
Tatum at 20, Brown at 22, won 49 games. And went to second round.
21 y.o. Tatum and 23. y.o. Brown won 48 games ( 48-24, shorter season, again pace for +55 wins) and played 6 games in CF.

Boston as a team went through turmoil of 2021 season ( Walker got hurt, Brown didn't played in playoffs etc) , but guess what? 2021-22- 51 wins and trip to finals.
2022-23- 57 wins - trip to CF.
2023-24- 64 damn wins (20th most wins in regular season in nba history) - damn championship.

This is insanity. Only teams with more success in past 10 damn years are either: Steph Curry led- or Lebron led teams. Just two of top 15-ish best players of all time.

Tatum and Brown are still most underrated stars in past 15 years because people undervalue their ability to adjust. Celtics are AMAZING franchise top to bottom, but amount of changes that Celtics did ( Smart, Kyrie, Jrue, Horford , Rozier, White, Brogdon, Josh Richardson, Robert Williams, Kanter, Wannamaker, Theis, Grant Williams etc) only were possible because Tatum and Brown are SO good that you can stick most random crap around them and they elevate all of them, to the point were fans think those role players are actually way better than they are ( Marcus not so Smart at PG).

You can look what happened to most of their role players once they left Celtics to understand how good T&B are.
Wannamaker- from Celtics rotation to out of nba
Kanter- from go to option off bench- out of nba
Grant Williams- from serious Celtics playoff rotation to Hornets bench
Smart- from DPOY to irrelevant bum on Memphis
Thies- from starting on team that went to finals (in playoffs) to irrelevant bum


Celtics do tend to spin a wheel and do have stacked team(s). But it goes under a radar why every team they assemble is stacked. Tatum and Brown. Adjustable, switchable, can play on ball, off ball etc.

Tatum assists to Brown + Brown assists to Tatum= 43+ 31= 74
Paolo assists to Franz+ Franz assists to Paolo= 81+ 50= 131

Because Celtics, unlike Magic, have multiple people capable of setting play and passing? There is very reasonable explanation for this, and not one you think, nor would like. Franz and Paolo aren't as creative playmakers nor they play off each other that much. That's why our offense last year was 8th worst in nba. But team is depending on them to create.

Celtics have amazing offense because they have lot of players capable of creating for self and others, and Brown and Tatum don't need to "play off each other" that much ,because they can play off rest of a team, just like rest of a team can play off them.

Fultz+ Suggs = 325 assists. Jrue Holiday alone 281 assist. Derrick White alone 377 assists, Jaylen Brown alone 249 assists, Prichard alone 281 assists.
If Horford ( a center ) ended up playing 75 games ( like Suggs) he would end up having more assist than both Magic starting guards

Yeah that 2017-2018 Celtics team had two allstars and they werent Tatum or Brown. I wonder how many games Paolo and Franz would win playing with two all-stars instead of starting Harris/19 year old Black/and terrible Fultz

Again they had elite coaches, and stacked teams. Stevens is a basketball genius. Look at what Udoka was able to do for a miserable Rockets team in his first season. Downplaying Marcus Smart's defense because he went to Memphis and got injured? Nah, Smart was and is a good role player and an underrated playmaker who was most of the time a top 2 playmaker for them even when they had star PGs.

The "multiple ballhandlers" excuse does not justify such a low assist total. Go back throughout their careers and not just last season, they never really came close to Paolo and Franz's total. Look at the massive difference, and Paolo and Franz's numbers arent exactly the gold standard either. They were in their 2nd year together and haven't had as much time to develop their shooting yet. Another example: LBJ and AD. LBJ alone had 169 assists to AD. You will tell me AD is a great finisher and LBJ is an elite passer. True, but 169 just for LBJ vs 74 for Brown and Tatum combined is a massive difference. Hell AD, a center, got 66 assists to LBJ. My point is, 73 combined for Tatum and Brown is simply too low of a number.

[pepe1991]

Last paragraph and especially the bolded part. Spot on.

Also, sometimes I think we just have to take a step back, not everything is about stats/numbers/data and lord forbid, even winning (GASP!!!!). Watching the Olympics and managed to get the fam to watch some of the bball and specifically the German NT and I was freaking proud to point out Franz and explain his game etc. Even the family members who don't watch much bball could appreciate how he plays.

I guess where I am going with that is there is more then just the stats and even results, the FO probably loves the way Franz competes, hones his craft and approaches the game. Sometimes those things are more important (or just as important). Just enjoy.

But who are people who are arguing about splitting Paolo and Franz? Not me. Hardly anybody on real.gm sub. Hardly anybody on general board. Some delusional reddit fans ?

Ofcourse in the end they won a chip and proved everyone wrong

Again, by "everyone" you mean clueless morons who know jack s*** about basketball as they watch 43 sec of basketball on twitter and argue based on that, because that's length of their attention span?

Rookie Tatum and 21 years old Brown won 55 games. And went to CF game 7.
Tatum at 20, Brown at 22, won 49 games. And went to second round.
21 y.o. Tatum and 23. y.o. Brown won 48 games ( 48-24, shorter season, again pace for +55 wins) and played 6 games in CF.

Boston as a team went through turmoil of 2021 season ( Walker got hurt, Brown didn't played in playoffs etc) , but guess what? 2021-22- 51 wins and trip to finals.
2022-23- 57 wins - trip to CF.
2023-24- 64 damn wins (20th most wins in regular season in nba history) - damn championship.

This is insanity. Only teams with more success in past 10 damn years are either: Steph Curry led- or Lebron led teams. Just two of top 15-ish best players of all time.

Tatum and Brown are still most underrated stars in past 15 years because people undervalue their ability to adjust. Celtics are AMAZING franchise top to bottom, but amount of changes that Celtics did ( Smart, Kyrie, Jrue, Horford , Rozier, White, Brogdon, Josh Richardson, Robert Williams, Kanter, Wannamaker, Theis, Grant Williams etc) only were possible because Tatum and Brown are SO good that you can stick most random crap around them and they elevate all of them, to the point were fans think those role players are actually way better than they are ( Marcus not so Smart at PG).

You can look what happened to most of their role players once they left Celtics to understand how good T&B are.
Wannamaker- from Celtics rotation to out of nba
Kanter- from go to option off bench- out of nba
Grant Williams- from serious Celtics playoff rotation to Hornets bench
Smart- from DPOY to irrelevant bum on Memphis
Thies- from starting on team that went to finals (in playoffs) to irrelevant bum


Celtics do tend to spin a wheel and do have stacked team(s). But it goes under a radar why every team they assemble is stacked. Tatum and Brown. Adjustable, switchable, can play on ball, off ball etc.

Tatum assists to Brown + Brown assists to Tatum= 43+ 31= 74
Paolo assists to Franz+ Franz assists to Paolo= 81+ 50= 131

Because Celtics, unlike Magic, have multiple people capable of setting play and passing? There is very reasonable explanation for this, and not one you think, nor would like. Franz and Paolo aren't as creative playmakers nor they play off each other that much. That's why our offense last year was 8th worst in nba. But team is depending on them to create.

Celtics have amazing offense because they have lot of players capable of creating for self and others, and Brown and Tatum don't need to "play off each other" that much ,because they can play off rest of a team, just like rest of a team can play off them.

Fultz+ Suggs = 325 assists. Jrue Holiday alone 281 assist. Derrick White alone 377 assists, Jaylen Brown alone 249 assists, Prichard alone 281 assists.
If Horford ( a center ) ended up playing 75 games ( like Suggs) he would end up having more assist than both Magic starting guards

Yeah that 2017-2018 Celtics team had two allstars and they werent Tatum or Brown. I wonder how many games Paolo and Franz would win playing with two all-stars instead of starting Harris/19 year old Black/and terrible Fultz

Again they had elite coaches, and stacked teams. Stevens is a basketball genius. Look at what Udoka was able to do for a miserable Rockets team in his first season. Downplaying Marcus Smart's defense because he went to Memphis and got injured? Nah, Smart was and is a good role player and an underrated playmaker who was most of the time a top 2 playmaker for them even when they had star PGs.

The "multiple ballhandlers" excuse does not justify such a low assist total. Go back throughout their careers and not just last season, they never really came close to Paolo and Franz's total. Look at the massive difference, and Paolo and Franz's numbers arent exactly the gold standard either. They were in their 2nd year together and haven't had as much time to develop their shooting yet. Another example: LBJ and AD. LBJ alone had 169 assists to AD. You will tell me AD is a great finisher and LBJ is an elite passer. True, but 169 just for LBJ vs 74 for Brown and Tatum combined is a massive difference. Hell AD, a center, got 66 assists to LBJ. My point is, 73 combined for Tatum and Brown is simply too low of a number.

Whole "not passing to each other= not working well" is laughable .

2024-25 ( 2 game sample ) - 1# offense
2023-24 - 1st offense
2022-23 - 2# offense
2021-22- 7th offense
2020-21 - 10th offense
2019-20 - 4th offense

For duo that "doesn't work well" for damn sure they tend to be one of best offenses for now over half of decade. Imagine how good Celtics would be if they work?

You could probably find some Kobe - to Shaq, and Shaq to Kobe passes, and i have no doubt numbers would be terrible, but they are last team to 3peat.


You don't need your duo to be Stockon and Malone , you just need them to make your offense funcional and great.

[Residual-Heat]

But who are people who are arguing about splitting Paolo and Franz? Not me. Hardly anybody on real.gm sub. Hardly anybody on general board. Some delusional reddit fans ?


Again, by "everyone" you mean clueless morons who know jack s*** about basketball as they watch 43 sec of basketball on twitter and argue based on that, because that's length of their attention span?

Rookie Tatum and 21 years old Brown won 55 games. And went to CF game 7.
Tatum at 20, Brown at 22, won 49 games. And went to second round.
21 y.o. Tatum and 23. y.o. Brown won 48 games ( 48-24, shorter season, again pace for +55 wins) and played 6 games in CF.

Boston as a team went through turmoil of 2021 season ( Walker got hurt, Brown didn't played in playoffs etc) , but guess what? 2021-22- 51 wins and trip to finals.
2022-23- 57 wins - trip to CF.
2023-24- 64 damn wins (20th most wins in regular season in nba history) - damn championship.

This is insanity. Only teams with more success in past 10 damn years are either: Steph Curry led- or Lebron led teams. Just two of top 15-ish best players of all time.

Tatum and Brown are still most underrated stars in past 15 years because people undervalue their ability to adjust. Celtics are AMAZING franchise top to bottom, but amount of changes that Celtics did ( Smart, Kyrie, Jrue, Horford , Rozier, White, Brogdon, Josh Richardson, Robert Williams, Kanter, Wannamaker, Theis, Grant Williams etc) only were possible because Tatum and Brown are SO good that you can stick most random crap around them and they elevate all of them, to the point were fans think those role players are actually way better than they are ( Marcus not so Smart at PG).

You can look what happened to most of their role players once they left Celtics to understand how good T&B are.
Wannamaker- from Celtics rotation to out of nba
Kanter- from go to option off bench- out of nba
Grant Williams- from serious Celtics playoff rotation to Hornets bench
Smart- from DPOY to irrelevant bum on Memphis
Thies- from starting on team that went to finals (in playoffs) to irrelevant bum


Celtics do tend to spin a wheel and do have stacked team(s). But it goes under a radar why every team they assemble is stacked. Tatum and Brown. Adjustable, switchable, can play on ball, off ball etc.



Because Celtics, unlike Magic, have multiple people capable of setting play and passing? There is very reasonable explanation for this, and not one you think, nor would like. Franz and Paolo aren't as creative playmakers nor they play off each other that much. That's why our offense last year was 8th worst in nba. But team is depending on them to create.

Celtics have amazing offense because they have lot of players capable of creating for self and others, and Brown and Tatum don't need to "play off each other" that much ,because they can play off rest of a team, just like rest of a team can play off them.

Fultz+ Suggs = 325 assists. Jrue Holiday alone 281 assist. Derrick White alone 377 assists, Jaylen Brown alone 249 assists, Prichard alone 281 assists.
If Horford ( a center ) ended up playing 75 games ( like Suggs) he would end up having more assist than both Magic starting guards

Yeah that 2017-2018 Celtics team had two allstars and they werent Tatum or Brown. I wonder how many games Paolo and Franz would win playing with two all-stars instead of starting Harris/19 year old Black/and terrible Fultz

Again they had elite coaches, and stacked teams. Stevens is a basketball genius. Look at what Udoka was able to do for a miserable Rockets team in his first season. Downplaying Marcus Smart's defense because he went to Memphis and got injured? Nah, Smart was and is a good role player and an underrated playmaker who was most of the time a top 2 playmaker for them even when they had star PGs.

The "multiple ballhandlers" excuse does not justify such a low assist total. Go back throughout their careers and not just last season, they never really came close to Paolo and Franz's total. Look at the massive difference, and Paolo and Franz's numbers arent exactly the gold standard either. They were in their 2nd year together and haven't had as much time to develop their shooting yet. Another example: LBJ and AD. LBJ alone had 169 assists to AD. You will tell me AD is a great finisher and LBJ is an elite passer. True, but 169 just for LBJ vs 74 for Brown and Tatum combined is a massive difference. Hell AD, a center, got 66 assists to LBJ. My point is, 73 combined for Tatum and Brown is simply too low of a number.

Whole "not passing to each other= not working well" is laughable .

2024-25 ( 2 game sample ) - 1# offense
2023-24 - 1st offense
2022-23 - 2# offense
2021-22- 7th offense
2020-21 - 10th offense
2019-20 - 4th offense

For duo that "doesn't work well" for damn sure they tend to be one of best offenses for now over half of decade. Imagine how good Celtics would be if they work?

Stacked teams, elite coaches, and individually they're both really good. They just arent great at playing off each other. For me, the eye test indicates that, the assist numbers back it up. Paolo and Franz are and will be better in that regard.

[pepe1991]

Yeah that 2017-2018 Celtics team had two allstars and they werent Tatum or Brown. I wonder how many games Paolo and Franz would win playing with two all-stars instead of starting Harris/19 year old Black/and terrible Fultz

Again they had elite coaches, and stacked teams. Stevens is a basketball genius. Look at what Udoka was able to do for a miserable Rockets team in his first season. Downplaying Marcus Smart's defense because he went to Memphis and got injured? Nah, Smart was and is a good role player and an underrated playmaker who was most of the time a top 2 playmaker for them even when they had star PGs.

The "multiple ballhandlers" excuse does not justify such a low assist total. Go back throughout their careers and not just last season, they never really came close to Paolo and Franz's total. Look at the massive difference, and Paolo and Franz's numbers arent exactly the gold standard either. They were in their 2nd year together and haven't had as much time to develop their shooting yet. Another example: LBJ and AD. LBJ alone had 169 assists to AD. You will tell me AD is a great finisher and LBJ is an elite passer. True, but 169 just for LBJ vs 74 for Brown and Tatum combined is a massive difference. Hell AD, a center, got 66 assists to LBJ. My point is, 73 combined for Tatum and Brown is simply too low of a number.

Whole "not passing to each other= not working well" is laughable .

2024-25 ( 2 game sample ) - 1# offense
2023-24 - 1st offense
2022-23 - 2# offense
2021-22- 7th offense
2020-21 - 10th offense
2019-20 - 4th offense

For duo that "doesn't work well" for damn sure they tend to be one of best offenses for now over half of decade. Imagine how good Celtics would be if they work?

Stacked teams, elite coaches. They just arent great at playing off each other. For me, the eye test indicates that, the assist numbers back it up. Paolo and Franz are and will be better in that regard.

Great players make great systems and elevate role players and make coaches look better than they are.


Who Stevens coached before Celtics? College team.
Who Udoka coached before Celtics? Nobody.
Who Mazzula coached before Celtics? Some D level college team.


Kobe and Shaq didn't even hide fact they didn't like each other, never passed to each other all that much, yet are last team who won 3 championships in a row.

It really takes some mental gymnastics to rather overvalue role players like Derrick White & Horford ( 7th oldest active player) , Sam Huser , Payton Prichard and Luke Kornett you know - only players that actually went to finals in 2022 and 2024 with Brown and Tatum, than acknowledge that two of their best players actually are heart of that team.

Again; Celtics are phenomenal franchise, but nba teams only go as far as best player(s) can carry them. Tatum and Brown are current nba champions and favorites to be first duo to do it since Dwayne Wade and Lebron. Not bad for average duo?

[Residual-Heat]

Whole "not passing to each other= not working well" is laughable .

2024-25 ( 2 game sample ) - 1# offense
2023-24 - 1st offense
2022-23 - 2# offense
2021-22- 7th offense
2020-21 - 10th offense
2019-20 - 4th offense

For duo that "doesn't work well" for damn sure they tend to be one of best offenses for now over half of decade. Imagine how good Celtics would be if they work?

Stacked teams, elite coaches. They just arent great at playing off each other. For me, the eye test indicates that, the assist numbers back it up. Paolo and Franz are and will be better in that regard.

Great players make great systems and elevate role players and make coaches look better than they are.


Who Stevens coached before Celtics? College team.
Who Udoka coached before Celtics? Nobody.
Who Mazzula coached before Celtics? Some D level college team.


Kobe and Shaq didn't even hide fact they didn't like each other, never passed to each other all that much, yet are last team who won 3 championships in a row.

It really takes some mental gymnastics to rather overvalue role players like Derrick White & Horford ( 7th oldest active player) , Sam Huser , Payton Prichard and Luke Kornett you know - only players that actually went to finals in 2022 and 2024 with Brown and Tatum, than acknowledge that two of their best players actually are heart of that team.

Again; Celtics are phenomenal franchise, but nba teams only go as far as best player(s) can carry them. Tatum and Brown are current nba champions and favorites to be first duo to do it since Dwayne Wade and Lebron. Not bad for average duo?

It takes mental gymnastics to undermine the clear talent that they played with and the coaches they played for. Calling Smart a bum because he got injured after he went to Memphis? Smart was big for them, especially in the play offs the last 3 years he was there. I don't care about experience. Stevens and Udoka are both great coaches who didnt need much experience. Steve Kerr, great coach from day 1 with no experience, took over from Mark Jackson and won them a chip in his first year.

Kobe and Shaq are GOATs. They didnt need great chemistry. Neither Tatum or Brown are GOAT level, lets be clear here. They are very good players, but Franz and Paolo are capable of reaching that level.

[Max Power]

I’m going to call Franz “The German Elephant” from now on. Thanks for that thread starter….maybe Mo can be “ The German Ryno”

[JF5]

I’m going to call Franz “The German Elephant” from now on. Thanks for that thread starter….maybe Mo can be “ The German Ryno”

I'm on the German Elephant train too. Sick nickname

[Bakomagic]

Wasn’t there an overreacting negative thread about Paolo to start last season too. Something about replacing him with Kyle Anderson haha.

Maybe this is the boards super power, we will need to decide who we want to guarantee positive development for next year.

[basketballRob]

Elephant fun facts.

Read on Twitter

?t=MQIHNwDHhKlfPtzIP681IA&s=19

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

What are we even arguing about here? That Brown and Tatum are the better duo than Franz and Paolo?

That depends entirely on the weight you put on their supporting cast of players or their overall ceiling. Orlando's roster is crazy young compared to those early Boston rosters. Tatum's rookie year they had one of the best players in the league at the time in Kyrie and 5x allstar/ all defense Horford. It's simply not the same situation.

Not sure if this needs to be said, but Orlando is not done building this roster. Frankly, you are either a fool or homer if you think this roster is capable of competing this year for a championship. So in being realistic you have to concede this roster is not in its final iteration for competing. It's two max players are 4-5 years from their prime.

Tatum and Brown are VERY GOOD upper tier players. They are not transcendent generational talents. What makes the Celtics great is their overall team construction. The Celtics roster last year AND this year is absolutely stacked with talent top to bottom. Their role players are even great at knowing their role exactly. That is the real takeaway from the comparison to Orlando.

My biggest gripe with drafting Paolo was his outside shot, defense, and rebounding. At Duke he showed little effort underneath on defense or on the boards. TBH he still doesn't really compared to others. I wasn't concerned about his ability to score the basketball anywhere else. That means you have to construct your roster around outside shooting, defense, and secondary playmaking. Your 2A option (Franz) covers those areas on most nights and can pick up the slack when Paolo is off.

I found it interesting that instead of relying on Franz to develop into a better shooter they instead acquired MORE guys that can, instead of playmaking. Sure, that means Paolo's assist numbers will go up. However, that doesn't always equate to a "good" offense. It's still predictable, and I'd STILL contend Paolo should not be your primary playmaker. There's absolutely a reason why Boston focused on a Jrue/White, and previously Smart, back court. It made sense with what Brown and Tatum lack entirely. Adding a unicorn allstar in KP just put them over the edge with talent. Without being the primary, secondary, or hell even third option to cover on offense is just a ridiculous advantage people are overlooking.

The last missing parts of this roster are a defensive-minded volume-rebounding Center and a legitimate point guard that can orchestrate a half court offense SHOULD AB not be that guy. And yeah, Jett and AB absolutely need to pan out. You cannot lose that lotto pick value as either players OR as trade assets, otherwise you are taking a step back.

[pepe1991]

Stacked teams, elite coaches. They just arent great at playing off each other. For me, the eye test indicates that, the assist numbers back it up. Paolo and Franz are and will be better in that regard.

Great players make great systems and elevate role players and make coaches look better than they are.


Who Stevens coached before Celtics? College team.
Who Udoka coached before Celtics? Nobody.
Who Mazzula coached before Celtics? Some D level college team.


Kobe and Shaq didn't even hide fact they didn't like each other, never passed to each other all that much, yet are last team who won 3 championships in a row.

It really takes some mental gymnastics to rather overvalue role players like Derrick White & Horford ( 7th oldest active player) , Sam Huser , Payton Prichard and Luke Kornett you know - only players that actually went to finals in 2022 and 2024 with Brown and Tatum, than acknowledge that two of their best players actually are heart of that team.

Again; Celtics are phenomenal franchise, but nba teams only go as far as best player(s) can carry them. Tatum and Brown are current nba champions and favorites to be first duo to do it since Dwayne Wade and Lebron. Not bad for average duo?

It takes mental gymnastics to undermine the clear talent that they played with and the coaches they played for. Calling Smart a bum because he got injured after he went to Memphis? Smart was big for them, especially in the play offs the last 3 years he was there. I don't care about experience. Stevens and Udoka are both great coaches who didnt need much experience. Steve Kerr, great coach from day 1 with no experience, took over from Mark Jackson and won them a chip in his first year.

Kobe and Shaq are GOATs. They didnt need great chemistry. Neither Tatum or Brown are GOAT level, lets be clear here. They are very good players, but Franz and Paolo are capable of reaching that level.

10,7 ppg
4,6 apg
3,5 rpg
38,8% FG
32% for 3
51,6% TS
-0,3 BMP

Does any of that sounds like a good player? No. Because Smart was never good player. He is typical case of role player that gets overvalued because:
1) he is on big market team
2) he plays hard espicially during playoffs and nationally televized games
3) cult of personality of "leader" because he said so

Smart was hardly starter by his talent. But that never stopped him from taking idiotic shots and playing hero ball in playoffs. Guy was ultimate wildcard and his effort on defense created massive cult of personality among Celtics fans where they got deeply devided in between two groups, one that could see through effort and understand how painfully average as player he is, vs portion of fans who were delusional over a top Smartboys.
Reality: championship won in second he was replaced by actual starting level , high quality PG. Jrue.



How do you know somebody is good coach if he never coahed anybody before or after? There was myth that Glenn was great coach (again, Celtics) until he ,year after year proved he is definition of mediocrity that just had right players to win his only title.