Bianchi: John Weisbrod Deserves Some Credit

[mhectorgato]

Im sure I could persuade them into experimenting once there. The problem would be convincing them to go there in the first place. Its been a long time (like years) since ive done anything that would be available in Amsterdam, so I dont really associate with anyone who would understand the point of even going. But man, if I were to go there, I dont know if I would want to come back.

And partying isnt the only reason, id love just to see the architecture and some of the museums. I think it would be a great place to visit, but unfortunately theres that stigma involved, so the only way I would go would be to go alone

They have a museum there that has paintings by little known dude, but I like a lot regardless - his name is something like Van Gogh or something like that.

When I was young my folks took me (had an aunt in the NL), and I have fond memories of the canal boat tour we went on.

[maginno]

It's how would we have faired had we signed Wallace + Kapono/Noc vs Rashard.

PLEASE try to stay on topic.

Well first things first. Calm down Gato. You are getting waay too flustered for just an Internet conversation/disagreement. Second thats exactly my point. You have no idea how Wallace or Nociono would fair. You can't even come close. Using stats at another position can't get you anywhere. Neither side.

end of story.

Would there ever be a realistic situation where Shard would start at Center for an entire season? NO

Previous to this season Shard was SF so all such bets are off . Dwight and one of our scrub bigs gets injured I wouldn't be surprised to see Stan go small ball across the board. In case you didn' t know in Miami he did play a PF at center position and shard is now playing PF.

At any rate the whole point is off because the illustration which you cannot touch for its logic is that stats at one position isn't going to tell you how a player is going to play at another. Obvious and that was the only point of using those analogies.

anyway I can tell you are getting heated so I tell you what. claim victory and I'll let you move on.

[mhectorgato]

Well first things first. Calm down Gato. You are getting waay too flustered for just an Internet conversation/disagreement.

Making a diagnosis over the internet?

[mhectorgato]

You have no idea how Wallace or Nociono would fair. You can't even come close.

So then why have an internet discussion board?

end of story.

Well as long as you say so

At any rate the whole point is off because the illustration which you cannot touch for its logic is that stats at one position isn't going to tell you how a player is going to play at another. Obvious and that was the only point of using those analogies.

Which is why I posted Wallace's stats at PF. I didn't say "here's his SF stats and lets project how it would be at the 4."

82games lists stats for teams and players. If you drill down to a player, there are links to show stats for a player at the specific positions on the court. Include are the player's net production at that spot - points scored - points allowed.

So I was using Wallace's actual stats at the 4. His numbers at the 4 are negative - more points allowed than scored.

While it's not 100% Granny Smith vs Granny Smith - it's more like Golden Delicious vs Granny Smith - it shows that Rashard has been more effective out of position than Wallace has been - which is the basis of our discussion.

And the issue that predates your posting history, is that richboy has a known tendency to post stats, at times ad nauseum, but when they contradict his point he has said:

This isn't about stats but how he is playing

That stats don't matter. His overall play matters

[maginno]

Feel better now? Nothing new so nothing to add. I'm formulating a diagnosis. I'll let you know when i figured out why you are getting so flustered.

[mhectorgato]

Feel better now? Nothing new so nothing to add. I'm formulating a diagnosis. I'll let you know when i figured out why you are getting so flustered.

Got to give you credit for a laugh the way can just ignore items that refute what you say.

I at times wish I could be so self-centered when discussing items on this board.

[mfishy]

I would have bet my house that even this topic would wind up being cassie and maggino talking about the Lewis signing.

Magicfan123: Great win last night, you see that dunk howard had?!

Cassie: The win doesn't mean anything because the Wizards are not an elite team and BTW Rashard is overpaid.

Maggino: Let's see us win in the playoffs. Lewis is overpaid.

richboy: Rashard is overpaid and he is one dimensional. The Magic played tonight? I am a fan of the NBA so I do not have much time for this team.

[maginno]

Nah. I think you have destroyed my arguments against your logic. I'll just nurse my wounds and wimper away.

Hey Gato. Seriously. no pun, green or joke intended - have a great weekend man. Haven't even looked at the game schedule . Hope there is a good game on.

[mhectorgato]

mfishy - thanks for the laugh.

maginno - thanks for the laughs.

[maginno]

I would have bet my house that even this topic would wind up being cassie and maggino talking about the Lewis signing.

wouldn't have won much money. Didn't take alot to think of how a discussion about a Gm would wind up touching on a GM. This thread was about Magic management. How you miss that bro?

[mfishy]

If the thread was about the Magic dancers the conversation would have been similar in the end.

[maginno]

If the thread was about the Magic dancers the conversation would have been similar in the end.

does Otis pick those too? No wonder he's distracted.

[mfishy]

lol maggino, that actually made me chuckle...I do believe he said he is "happy with the dancers we have now"

mhec, this is like that Kevin Bacon game right? I say any word and you connect it to Otis signing Lewis for the max? haha

[mhectorgato]

If the thread was about the Magic dancers the conversation would have been similar in the end.

A) Logically they do nothing to improve the performance of the team.

B) So they are overpaid.

C) Lewis is also overpaid.

D) Otis signed him to the Max for no reason at all.

E) We could have had player W and K for what we are paying Lewis.

mfishy - not even a challenge to make those connections.

[craig01]

lol, that actually made me chuckle...I do believe he said he is "happy with the dancers we have now"

If Otis trades any of my favorite dancers....,then it's time to can him.

[maginno]

lol maggino, that actually made me chuckle...I do believe he said he is "happy with the dancers we have now"

Well good that we can chuckle . Much needed recently

[richboy]

Then why do you claim is team based?

I don't claim they are.

Wait so ... the stats don't count?

A good majority of your arguments are based on stats, and now they are not to be trusted?

Oh that's right:

What. Your argument falls apart then you start this garbage. This is a joke. You know why we always end up in arguments. Your constantly trying to spin something so Otis looks like Gold at the end. You say Otis picked Rashard because he not injured as much but ignored Rashard's injury past. The only reason you used Gerald's past seasons with the Kings when he was barely playing to make it seem he was even more injured. You then came in with your stats suggesting that Otis picked Rashard because he was better to play PF. Yes whatever that was the reason. You consistently try to find reasons to defend Otis and even when whatever your saying is wrong you just wont admit.

Again, the discussion is if we signed Wallace + who ever and Battie went down, would Wallace play PF? Would he be as effective as Rashard?

Again Mr Stats, Rashard scores more than he gives up at the 4, verses how Wallace gives up more points than scores.

If Noc was used as you suggested - then we're 4 points in the hole a game on average vs how Rashard plays the 4.

And Wallace would be on the bench in a suit with his 4th concussion in 4 years. But no, you're right, he's not injury prone.

I'm done with this ... as you like to go both ways: stats count when they help your case, and when they don't you want to ignore them.

Again get your numbers right. Those numbers reflect team play. Go look at the per 48 minutes numbers. On the same page. Gerald Wallace scores 24 points per 48 minutes at pf. PF scores 20. That what Rashard does right now on a much better team.

Nocioni is even better. He averages 28 points per 48 minutes at PF. 8 points more than his opponent. Perhaps you can explain how he is -49 when he outscores by 8 per 48. Since -49 in your world is not a team stat.

Please don't start crying about stats. You are the one that keeps coming with these this is how so and so performs on another team. Your the one constantly putting up stats in threads that I'm not even discussing stats. Whats funny is the stats your trying to show are showing that Nocioni and Wallace are equal to better than Lewis at PF you just not reading them. Whats your next move once you are forced to agree to that. You know my opinion on you is you must defend the organization and Otis regardless. You have no real opinion. We been going at this for months and I still am unsure your feelings about Otis and the Rashard signing. Only a bunch of possible scenarios on why Otis could have made his choice.

Why do you consistently bring up Gerald injury past but not Rashard's. Again where in a discussion about a decision made on July 1. You keep trying to spin events to make it look like the injury situation between Gerald and Rashard is so much different that he had to go Rashard. If your going to say that then base it on something. 4 concussions did not happen by July 1. Rashard Lewis had more missed games on July 1. How about forming a opinion and sticking with it. My reasons why Rashard was a bad fit have always remained the same. No one has yet to prove it wrong. You jump from one possible reason to the next and hope something sticks. The only reason that you would ever pay 1 player twice as much as another player is because that player is much better. If not then your probably making a bad decision. You can make case that Rashard is a 10 million a year player.

[mhectorgato]

What. Your argument falls apart then you start this garbage.

Sorry .. I'm just using your words which is now garbage

The reason I keep using them is your attempt to be duplicitous - using stats when they help and when they don't, they don't matter.

You then came in with your stats suggesting that Otis picked Rashard because he was better to play PF.

Never did. I was saying had Otis signed Wallace + Noc/Kapono who would be playing the 4? If it would be Wallace the stats show that he gives up more points than he scores at the 4.

Again get your numbers right. Those numbers reflect team play.

It's how many points are scored by said player at that spot on the floor versus how many he gives up.

Go look at the per 48 minutes numbers. On the same page. Gerald Wallace scores 24 points per 48 minutes at pf. PF scores 20. That what Rashard does right now on a much better team.

Nocioni is even better. He averages 28 points per 48 minutes at PF. 8 points more than his opponent. Perhaps you can explain how he is -49 when he outscores by 8 per 48. Since -49 in your world is not a team stat.[/quote]

Net 48-Minute Production by Position - PF
Wallace +0.7
Lewis +3.4
Noconi +3.1 (of course he's playing about 10 mintues less a game than the other 2 regular starters)

Didn't take the time if we had signed the best shooter in the history of the NBA.

Please don't start crying about stats. You are the one that keeps coming with these this is how so and so performs on another team. Your the one constantly putting up stats in threads that I'm not even discussing stats. Whats funny is the stats your trying to show are showing that Nocioni and Wallace are equal to better than Lewis at PF you just not reading them. Whats your next move once you are forced to agree to that. You know my opinion on you is you must defend the organization and Otis regardless. You have no real opinion. We been going at this for months and I still am unsure your feelings about Otis and the Rashard signing. Only a bunch of possible scenarios on why Otis could have made his choice.

I'll say the same thing that I've been saying for months - we overpaid for the player we needed.

Why do you consistently bring up Gerald injury past but not Rashard's.

Because there's a distinct difference between a history of repeated knee/leg injuries and 4 concussions in as many years and Rashards - finger caught in the rim and other non-repetative issues.

Again where in a discussion about a decision made on July 1.

Go back to page 10. You responded to prorl's post re Wallace + Kapono

Interestingly enough you brought up stats from the players this season as well.

Tell me: how do those stats not factor in the team they are on?

You keep trying to spin events to make it look like the injury situation between Gerald and Rashard is so much different that he had to go Rashard.

History of repeated injuries is different that "freak" injuries.

If your going to say that then base it on something. 4 concussions did not happen by July 1.

Ok, I'll yield - 3 concussions in 3 years at that point.

Much better

***

My stance back then is the same as it is now. I'm glad our primary target was Rashard over Wallace - both looking forward from that time, and now especially looking back.

I also said that we had the expirings to use, which would offset the signing amount.

Unfortunately Otis squandered that opportunity to use those assets.

***

Yet another discussion where you're dancing around the facts.

A good part of it is differing viewpoints, part of it is your nature.

[maginno]

What. Your argument falls apart then you start this garbage. This is a joke. You know why we always end up in arguments. Your constantly trying to spin something so Otis looks like Gold at the end.

Yep. You Nailed that.

Yes whatever that was the reason. You consistently try to find reasons to defend Otis and even when whatever your saying is wrong you just wont admit.

too true but there does come a point when you just have to leave them to it. All the denials and dodges and talks of 50+ games proving this or that doesn't put any championship banners from any sport hanging anywhere in Orlando. They willl learn soon enough that No one remembers or cares about regular season results without deep playoff success and not having tradeable assets doesn't help toward that end. It s a razor's edge job getting a team to championship level and you just can't waste so many opportunities as Otis has..

Its kind of provincial this attitude Central Florida fans have. In Miami. LA New York and lots of cities Fans question, castigate and examine personnel moves with a passion. I think its bordeline hilarious the defensive mechanisms that start flying around for management on a site that confirms what I am saying - RealGM - because this site owes its existenc to that enjoyment of the game that lays in weighing in and holding firm stands on management issues.

We been going at this for months and I still am unsure your feelings about Otis and the Rashard signing. Only a bunch of possible scenarios on why Otis could have made his choice.

well its kind of a half baked backhanded admission on it really. Some finally realized that it was bogus (but boy for some it took a long time) to claim it was market price for Rashard while others still claim it was the going price for him (needing no proof whatsoever) but Gato has admitted that it was too much so the next step utilized is to say it was too much but it doesn't really matter.

SO when you look at how tightly we are tied up its kind of like admitting that you smoke and you got cancer but the smoking didn't really matter because you were going to get it anyway. or the other answer is to point out how well you ran coming in 4th place and failing to recognize that with the cigarette still in your lips your chance of coming in first decrease not increase with every puff.

[mhectorgato]

Peanut gallery comment duly noted.