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magicman112 wrote:basketballRob wrote:Not sure Clifford was the right coach at this time. They should've went harder at Billups or Stackhouse.
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Coaching is not the problem. This is just a plain badly constructed team and the players leading it are not leaders.
Blue_and_Whte wrote:magicman112 wrote:basketballRob wrote:Not sure Clifford was the right coach at this time. They should've went harder at Billups or Stackhouse.
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Coaching is not the problem. This is just a plain badly constructed team and the players leading it are not leaders.
Agreed. We don’t have elite talent! It has nothing to do with to do with the coach. WTF is wrong with people?
PrimeThyme wrote:Its pretty sad when you consider that an organization like the Nets, who didn't even have their own 1st round draft pick for like 4 years is in a better place than we are today. We are just so fundamentally flawed as an organization from top to bottom. Another January collapse, where we will still end up winning just enough to pick outside the top 5. && best of all even if we were somehow to win the lottery it is a predominately forward heavy draft and one of Isaac or AG would have to be out the door for likely pennies on the dollar.
I don't really see an end in sight either. I have been a pretty vocal Alex Martin detractor since joining this board and I still think our problems start with him.
It is pretty sad when a team like the Nets who started with little to no assets, did not have have their draft picks for about half a decade, are already better than this team who had a head start and had their draft picks. Not only are they better now but they have a better future. They've been proactive, they've scouted well and done a good job with late picks and trades.MagicMatic wrote:PrimeThyme wrote:Its pretty sad when you consider that an organization like the Nets, who didn't even have their own 1st round draft pick for like 4 years is in a better place than we are today. We are just so fundamentally flawed as an organization from top to bottom. Another January collapse, where we will still end up winning just enough to pick outside the top 5. && best of all even if we were somehow to win the lottery it is a predominately forward heavy draft and one of Isaac or AG would have to be out the door for likely pennies on the dollar.
I don't really see an end in sight either. I have been a pretty vocal Alex Martin detractor since joining this board and I still think our problems start with him.
Ownership doesn’t want to lose, but I think it’s a gross mismanagement of talent evaluation. At some level, most of the people experienced enough around the league should know this roster was never capable of making the playoffs. Not only that, but that the team didn’t show enough growth to give the idea that the same roster was sufficient at all.
If management doesn’t blow this team up, teams like the Hawks, Nets, and Kings will (or already have) surpassed Orlando’s rebuild.
This team could desperately use a playmaker.
When exactly did he not try to beat his man back on defense?Blue_and_Whte wrote:basketballRob wrote:Bamba runs down the court every time.Blue_and_Whte wrote:he was contributing way before this season though. Despite being “unathletic” vooch gets up and down the court and involved in plays. Bamba slowly jogs up the court despite having a “faster sprint than Westbrook”. When was the last time you saw Mo sprinting down court?
Vooch isn’t a guy who flys all over the court by any stretch but he’s involved in the game and contributing to say the least
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No he doesn’t. You’re either a blatant liar or watching a different team. He jogs up court against everyone and takes multiple plays off. You just refuse to acknowledge that I’m 100% right.
dsg2021 wrote:The same as 15-20 games in.. the Magic are still pretty screwed if they try to tank. The odds are raised so it's still kind of enticing to be 6th-8th worst, if they get lucky. But again, I'd rather shoot for wins and give the youngsters some positive development. I'm genuinely not a fan of this draft tho either. I fully expect the top 5 of that draft to be like 1-2 lottery players, and the rest steals, in retrospect.
For as much crap we give our team for not fitting together too, they sure awfully rack up the assists as a team.. better than most. And Clifford is working to improve the team. Who doesn't want players who are learning to play better together and pushing for any wins they can get.
As to the 2nd year FO, the cap situation they inherited made it extremely hard for them to do much of anything last year and this year. Their biggest moves have been the only things they could do, two draft picks (J.I. and Bamba), and adopting Gordon as a WeHam player on an awesome extension deal. And if you are getting the trade offers that some of you are writing, then I am very happy they are standing pat and letting them expire. You don't negotiate from a bad position, period. It is better to be in a position with bird rights and loyalty for FA negotiations. I am also happy to see if either or both of Vooch or Ross could get re-signed, but it would have to be at a good rate where no competitor outbids ORL like crazy.
I think WeHam's plan is to look for good cap deals and hit on draft pick home-runs, so that they can grow cap space and youth. Simmons and Gordon's cap deals were good deals to make in a cap space perspective. Bamba and Isaac are the exact kind of draft picks who will have natural advantages as they continue to grow and strive to become impact or star players.
I have yet to read any magical solution to all of this, except for maybe deep-tanking. Something WeHam is obviously not shooting for. So for 90% of you guys, maybe you should consider making a petition to 1) fire WeHam and Martins, and 2) do a deep-tank strategy (you won't have my signature, not for 2-3 years yet at least. And I think it's massive stupidity to turn on a FO who didn't even get a 4-5 year window yet. You're literally setting up for a SAC-type situation of revolving doors and strategies and internal turmoil for years and decades.). But I guess that's about as productive as you can get if some of you start to get tired of complaining too much or looking back in the past too much. What I will say, instead, is I hope Clifford can keep looking for more improvements always, I think the schedule gets easier for ORL after January to set up those improvements, and I think what Clifford and ORL can really do is try to feature Isaac, Gordon, and Bamba a little more into the offense. Gordon is showing more maturity, passing ability, and patience with the ball than ever before. And with Isaac, there were a lot of signals that he was like a "secret jet-fighter" project for them this summer, so if they can push Isaac past his rookie wall and get him to show some stuff offensively, then this starts to get a lot more positive around here. In a stretch of games about a week ago or so, Isaac had some drives and attacks in these games that were eye-popping and very intriguing to see. Looked highly unguardable and smooth. And I would love for him to develop his passing as much as his scoring, too. I also think there's a new meta or trend in the NBA that hasn't been talked about enough/at all. It's that the league has started shifting to more late bloomers and late-round hits than ever before. It was unbelievable how some of these young now-stars were written off 1-2 years ago, and Oladipo is our own prime example of it around here. So maybe it is time for a little more patience towards our youngsters with the way the league is today.
While he can do a little bit of everything, Isaac lacks a degree of skill to play on the wing full-time, like some may project him. He stays in his lane, but doesn't have the most natural feel for the game, and isn't very advanced out of ball-screens at this stage of his career. He also still has to prove himself as a shooter from NBA range. He is a lifetime 31.7% from three and shot only 16.7% from three in March and 21.4% from three in December.
There is some fool's gold in his offensive production, however. Isaac is very risk averse offensively (396 used possessions compared to Jackson's 695 and Tatum's 576), far too happy to fade into the background, defend, rebound, and take an occasional open shot. Isaac has often lacked a degree of confidence you'd like to see from a potential top-five pick. He's a worker who will undoubtedly compete, but his sometimes-passive nature on the offensive end makes it hard to project him as more than a third or fourth option on a winning team.
tiderulz wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:I am amazed that fans here think they know more than the professionals running these teams.
could we do any worse for a franchise that has been horrible since Dwight left? done traded away the best players for peanuts, done a pretty bad job developing players. Not like anyone in the past 6-7 years has a sterling resume of correct choices made.
BadMofoPimp wrote:tiderulz wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:I am amazed that fans here think they know more than the professionals running these teams.
could we do any worse for a franchise that has been horrible since Dwight left? done traded away the best players for peanuts, done a pretty bad job developing players. Not like anyone in the past 6-7 years has a sterling resume of correct choices made.
Yes. Because, we are not in the gym working with players or managing them individually. We are not in board room meetings with scouts or the ones talking to other GM's about possible trades. We have zero knowledge of the intricacies of what is going on within the organization on a day to day basis. Nobody here has worked within a NBA organization for years like the people who do have. This is not NBA2k where you just push a button and the computer lets you make a trade or draft a player based off of OVR or Shooting Percentages etc.
basketballRob wrote:We have 4 games against Atlanta left, so if we started tanking hard we might be able to catch them at 5th worst. Morant is projected to go 2 in latest mock.
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tiderulz wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:tiderulz wrote:
could we do any worse for a franchise that has been horrible since Dwight left? done traded away the best players for peanuts, done a pretty bad job developing players. Not like anyone in the past 6-7 years has a sterling resume of correct choices made.
Yes. Because, we are not in the gym working with players or managing them individually. We are not in board room meetings with scouts or the ones talking to other GM's about possible trades. We have zero knowledge of the intricacies of what is going on within the organization on a day to day basis. Nobody here has worked within a NBA organization for years like the people who do have. This is not NBA2k where you just push a button and the computer lets you make a trade or draft a player based off of OVR or Shooting Percentages etc.
were they in the gym working out Hezonja when they didnt exercise his option year, then tried hard to recruit him to stay? lets not act like they are hitting on all cylinders, they are messing up on things many people called out prior to occurring. And many of us called out their draft picks as they happened, or just not making a pick at all and selling it instead of taking players that at worst would have improved our bench. (Kuzma, White, Hart, Bell) or projects in area of need, or packaging picks to move up a few for a need.
BadMofoPimp wrote:tiderulz wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:
Yes. Because, we are not in the gym working with players or managing them individually. We are not in board room meetings with scouts or the ones talking to other GM's about possible trades. We have zero knowledge of the intricacies of what is going on within the organization on a day to day basis. Nobody here has worked within a NBA organization for years like the people who do have. This is not NBA2k where you just push a button and the computer lets you make a trade or draft a player based off of OVR or Shooting Percentages etc.
were they in the gym working out Hezonja when they didnt exercise his option year, then tried hard to recruit him to stay? lets not act like they are hitting on all cylinders, they are messing up on things many people called out prior to occurring. And many of us called out their draft picks as they happened, or just not making a pick at all and selling it instead of taking players that at worst would have improved our bench. (Kuzma, White, Hart, Bell) or projects in area of need, or packaging picks to move up a few for a need.
LOL. 31 other teams in the NBA are probably kicking themselves for not taking (Kuzma, White, Hart, Bell). Asking why any GM didn't take this or that player in the draft is ridiculous. Everyone is looking for Diamonds in the Rough, but it rarely happens so you can't blame one GM because they failed because some other team succeeded that one time. I am sure all GM's fail most of the time.
BadMofoPimp wrote:tiderulz wrote:BadMofoPimp wrote:
Yes. Because, we are not in the gym working with players or managing them individually. We are not in board room meetings with scouts or the ones talking to other GM's about possible trades. We have zero knowledge of the intricacies of what is going on within the organization on a day to day basis. Nobody here has worked within a NBA organization for years like the people who do have. This is not NBA2k where you just push a button and the computer lets you make a trade or draft a player based off of OVR or Shooting Percentages etc.
were they in the gym working out Hezonja when they didnt exercise his option year, then tried hard to recruit him to stay? lets not act like they are hitting on all cylinders, they are messing up on things many people called out prior to occurring. And many of us called out their draft picks as they happened, or just not making a pick at all and selling it instead of taking players that at worst would have improved our bench. (Kuzma, White, Hart, Bell) or projects in area of need, or packaging picks to move up a few for a need.
LOL. 31 other teams in the NBA are probably kicking themselves for not taking (Kuzma, White, Hart, Bell). Asking why any GM didn't take this or that player in the draft is ridiculous. Everyone is looking for Diamonds in the Rough, but it rarely happens so you can't blame one GM because they failed because some other team succeeded that one time. I am sure all GM's fail most of the time.
NSB_Magic wrote:Let’s not forget about our magical summer where we traded Dipo (and sabonis) and signed Biz for 17 mil.
That set back our rebuild YEARS
When exactly did he not try to beat his man back on defense?basketballRob wrote:Blue_and_Whte wrote:basketballRob wrote:Bamba runs down the court every time.
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No he doesn’t. You’re either a blatant liar or watching a different team. He jogs up court against everyone and takes multiple plays off. You just refuse to acknowledge that I’m 100% right.
rcklsscognition wrote:I honestly don't think there is anything the front office can do to make us NOT have roughly a ~8% chance to get this guy:
