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2023 NBA Draft Thread 4

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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1621 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:21 am

Def Swami wrote:
SOUL wrote:I wish I could remember how the past threads were in terms of people saying "I would HATE to end up with (Franz), (Sengun), (insert really good players from past drafts)". All I remember was there was 90% hype in getting Suggs and a lukewarm response to Franz, made even worse by his summer league.

I try not to make grand statements on 19-20 year olds. I have my preferences but my hit/miss rate is just like anybody's.

Had this exact thought after reading the last couple of pages. :lol: There's nothing more humbling than the draft.


Lol.. i was a Bouknight truther but i don't think i was really upset with Franz.

But yeah... if my hated #6 pick Cam would become a star, i would gladly eat humble pie because it means the Magic got another good one.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1622 » by Skybox » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:26 am

MagicMatic wrote:After thinking about it....

I think the best draft outcome would be Cam Whitmore at #6 and Kobe Bufkin at #11.

Why? Both guys are at the top of the draft at getting to the rim and being able to shoot the basketball. Both are also multi positional and decent on-ball defenders.

Is Whitmore really a shooter?

IF he's not, all I see are his season #'s and I understand he was injured early in the season...

I think he's got a thin window to success (if he's not an exceptional shooter). Classic tweener size - bullies littler NCAA guys but maybe not big enough (yet-he's young) to replicate that ala AG hip-checking the MIA defenders into the third row, on the way to the hoop. Supposedly NEVER passes-has had the "hero" blinders on his whole life. Too big for the SG position we need(I think), too small to go to the 4, so stuck behind Franz in ORL...Is he Jimmy Butler or Isaac Okoro or just a body?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1623 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:31 am

Skybox wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:After thinking about it....

I think the best draft outcome would be Cam Whitmore at #6 and Kobe Bufkin at #11.

Why? Both guys are at the top of the draft at getting to the rim and being able to shoot the basketball. Both are also multi positional and decent on-ball defenders.

Is Whitmore really a shooter?

IF he's not, all I see are his season #'s and I understand he was injured early in the season...

I think he's got a thin window to success (if he's not an exceptional shooter). Classic tweener size - bullies littler NCAA guys but maybe not big enough (yet-he's young) to replicate that ala AG hip-checking the MIA defenders into the third row, on the way to the hoop. Supposedly NEVER passes-has had the "hero" blinders on his whole life. Too big for the SG position we need(I think), too small to go to the 4, so stuck behind Franz in ORL...Is he Jimmy Butler or Isaac Okoro or just a body?


Someone mentioned he reminded him of a certain Magic player. To the old timers here, how do you compare him to Corey Magette?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1624 » by VFX » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:41 am

Skybox wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:After thinking about it....

I think the best draft outcome would be Cam Whitmore at #6 and Kobe Bufkin at #11.

Why? Both guys are at the top of the draft at getting to the rim and being able to shoot the basketball. Both are also multi positional and decent on-ball defenders.

Is Whitmore really a shooter?

IF he's not, all I see are his season #'s and I understand he was injured early in the season...

I think he's got a thin window to success (if he's not an exceptional shooter). Classic tweener size - bullies littler NCAA guys but maybe not big enough (yet-he's young) to replicate that ala AG hip-checking the MIA defenders into the third row, on the way to the hoop. Supposedly NEVER passes-has had the "hero" blinders on his whole life. Too big for the SG position we need(I think), too small to go to the 4, so stuck behind Franz in ORL...Is he Jimmy Butler or Isaac Okoro or just a body?


I think he’s a 3/2 in most situations. He has positional versatility to guard 2-3 positions in the long run.

He can probably get away with worse assist numbers with Franz and Paolo on the roster. I think he has more value than picking Hendricks or Walker in the top 6-8 range. He’s too skilled already to be Okoro.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1625 » by fendilim » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:43 am

thelead wrote:
eyriq wrote:Based on everything we know I think my favorite options are:

No 6. Ausar
No 11. Gradey

We have enough evidence to think this would be a very solid draft.

If Ausar or Amen don't drop to No 6, trade up for Scoot.

Have you seen Ausar attempt jumpers off the dribble? The Thompson twins have been training ‘professionally’ for years now and it scares me how broken their jumpers are.

You havent seen them cause they missed it.

But actually they do but not
Like crossover then pullup.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1626 » by Knightro » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:48 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1627 » by RookieStar » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:55 am

Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


What's better than 1 MCW??? Why 2 MCW!!!
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1628 » by Orl_Magic » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:58 am

would be nice to have a back up pg incase we get an injury but we need guards who can shoot
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1629 » by Skybox » Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:58 am

Watching Scoot highlights ....go get him!

Fierce like the Westbeast. Handles like Kyrie...winner!
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1630 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:09 am

I know you all have been waiting patiently on my useless take on this draft so you can place your wagers in Vegas. I've put in a grand total of about 45 minutes of research for this so I have been completely unaffected by the lamestream media and their biased picks.

BPA:
Wembanyama
Miller

Sleepers:
Coulibaly
Brice Sensabaugh
Tristan Vukcevic
Trayce Jackson-Davis

Busts:
Scoot
Thompson twins
Gradey Dick
Everyone else not listed here

Magic draft:

Coulibaly
Sensabaugh
Tristan Vukcevic/Trayce Jackson-Davis

in whatever order necessary to acquire both/all.

Think of me when you are buying that lambo with your winnings.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1631 » by DiplomaticMagic » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:15 am

Woj is saying Brandon Miller is solidifying his #2 spot with Charlotte.

Why do I feel like this is akin to him saying Jabari Smith is going #1 is firm??

Maybe Im giving Charlotte's front office too much credit but I dont see how you pass on Scoot for Miller
Play Jase or Trade for Alvarado
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1632 » by RichCollab » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:19 am

DiplomaticMagic wrote:Woj is saying Brandon Miller is solidifying his #2 spot with Charlotte.

Why do I feel like this is akin to him saying Jabari Smith is going #1 is firm??

Maybe Im giving Charlotte's front office too much credit but I dont see how you pass on Scoot for Miller


Scoot is going 2nd. No doubt!
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1633 » by fendilim » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:20 am

Anthony Black screams so much Franz Wagner without the shooting
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1634 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:39 am

eyriq wrote:Based on everything we know I think my favorite options are:

No 6. Ausar
No 11. Gradey

We have enough evidence to think this would be a very solid draft.

If Ausar or Amen don't drop to No 6, trade up for Scoot.



If Amen is really that good.... And Ausar is his twin. #soldat6

lol
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1635 » by jonbob17 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:40 am

eyriq wrote:
bigdogdylan5 wrote:
eyriq wrote:
Yeah, I do. It is light and day better than 3.5 too!

Are they continuing to train it? I thought it’s training material was cut off in like 2021?

Edit: I just read it again and it says you fed it the data from ESPN. That makes sense lol


Yeah, still stuck on 2021


I wonder what kind of proprietary AI tools teams have access to.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1636 » by jonbob17 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:47 am

MagicMatic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:After thinking about it....

I think the best draft outcome would be Cam Whitmore at #6 and Kobe Bufkin at #11.

Why? Both guys are at the top of the draft at getting to the rim and being able to shoot the basketball. Both are also multi positional and decent on-ball defenders.

Is Whitmore really a shooter?

IF he's not, all I see are his season #'s and I understand he was injured early in the season...

I think he's got a thin window to success (if he's not an exceptional shooter). Classic tweener size - bullies littler NCAA guys but maybe not big enough (yet-he's young) to replicate that ala AG hip-checking the MIA defenders into the third row, on the way to the hoop. Supposedly NEVER passes-has had the "hero" blinders on his whole life. Too big for the SG position we need(I think), too small to go to the 4, so stuck behind Franz in ORL...Is he Jimmy Butler or Isaac Okoro or just a body?


I think he’s a 3/2 in most situations. He has positional versatility to guard 2-3 positions in the long run.

He can probably get away with worse assist numbers with Franz and Paolo on the roster. I think he has more value than picking Hendricks or Walker in the top 6-8 range. He’s too skilled already to be Okoro.


I don't think the lack of assists is the problem it is the ball stopping. The ball makes it to him he doesn't move it along, he stops, reads the defense, and attacks(by himself). It sounds like the exact opposite of what the Magic are trying to build here on offense. I mean Whitmore is young, he has time on his side to figure it out, but it's a glaring weakness. He could be good, or he could just end up being a volume(empty) scorer on a bad team. He is an upside swing, which isn't a terrible thing.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1637 » by davey_wavy » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:48 am

#6 : Keith Bogans
#11 : Jeryl Sasser
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1638 » by thelead » Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:54 am

RookieStar wrote:
Skybox wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:After thinking about it....

I think the best draft outcome would be Cam Whitmore at #6 and Kobe Bufkin at #11.

Why? Both guys are at the top of the draft at getting to the rim and being able to shoot the basketball. Both are also multi positional and decent on-ball defenders.

Is Whitmore really a shooter?

IF he's not, all I see are his season #'s and I understand he was injured early in the season...

I think he's got a thin window to success (if he's not an exceptional shooter). Classic tweener size - bullies littler NCAA guys but maybe not big enough (yet-he's young) to replicate that ala AG hip-checking the MIA defenders into the third row, on the way to the hoop. Supposedly NEVER passes-has had the "hero" blinders on his whole life. Too big for the SG position we need(I think), too small to go to the 4, so stuck behind Franz in ORL...Is he Jimmy Butler or Isaac Okoro or just a body?


Someone mentioned he reminded him of a certain Magic player. To the old timers here, how do you compare him to Corey Magette?


I liked Magette much more as a prospect… Corey’s athleticism just popped more. Cam’s handle is better (I think but I’m just going off memory).
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1639 » by jonbob17 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:01 am

Black and Blue wrote:
Great post. I think the point about the coach at Nova is very important.

This is what makes this particular draft class so hard for many people (and the reason for the calling out of pepe to say who he actually would like the Magic to draft): Everyone besides Wemby has big questions regarding their level of competition, role in college, lack of shooting prowess, or more. You can take any player and say, "I wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole because of ____" and have it make complete sense.

The tricky thing is next year's draft thus far profiles as worse, and there are several players this year who have shown glimmers of greatness. We are forced to squint and project the future more than normal so the posts on here people make about who they LIKE are so much more useful than who they don't.

Is the athleticism the Thompson twins showed in their inferior league translatable in the NBA? How much did Cam's program work against him in college? Has Scoot showed enough to be worth mortgaging a ton to go up and grab him? Has Anthony Black shown enough to be drafted 6? Is it worth taking a person with good role player upside like Hendricks or Dick at 6?

I'd argue when in doubt you shoot for the stars. This year that unfortunately means the biggest boom or bust prospects. Role players can be had in free agency if that's all you are missing. I'm not of the opinion the Magic are 1-2 role players away from being a top team. They need something far greater, and this is their best chance to take that shot. Sometimes it fails spectacularly, like with Bamba and Isaac, but the past two years have shown how good it can work when done right.

For that reason, if you ask me who we SHOULD target, I'd say a lot of names people would probably get annoyed at because they are so high risk with lots of potential: Both Thompson twins, Scoot (with an expensive trade up), Cam Whitmore, Kobe Bufkin, Bilal Coulibaly, Keyonte George, and the like. You'll also see me pushing names further down the list where the scouting report says how they are close to a solid finished product but will never be a superstar.


Regarding drafting for upside...wouldn't you say that the Franz pick was all about his floor? He was about as solid as it got coming into the league. He already played winning basketball as a connector, super high feel for the game...kind of what people are saying about Black this year.
Paolo I suppose was a swing on upside. I think he was the best player in the draft, certainly the best college basketball player, but everyone assumed Jabari's elite shooting made him the safest pick, and plenty including myself probably considered Chet as the highest upside, even thougb Paolo's high end outcomes were very high as well (guess time will tell on this one)
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Thread 4 

Post#1640 » by Bensational » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:09 am

Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


Fits with what Weltman is saying here:

Read on Twitter


Black is a heady, smart player.

I know we can't put too much stock into anything Weltman is saying, but this tracks with how they've traditionally operated.

It's why I don't think Cam Whitmore is on our radar. Great physical prospect, but I don't think he has the kind of basketball brain WeHam want to add to the team. I'm gonna guess the Thompson twins are also in that category.

He sounded quite intrigued about Taylor Hendricks and his unique game. He might be on our board at 11, but not 6 I don't think.

The 'preserving flexibility' talk sounds like an upfront warning that we're not gonna blow our money this offseason on FA signings and big trades.

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