Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[pepe1991]

Exactly what I'm saying this season, winning is much more valuable than tanking.
People have difficulties to accept that those last years but everything will be easier in a winning environment: rookies development, draft, free agents.
I mean look at the Spurs, everything that goes there get instantly better.

Tanking isn't even as valuable as it was year ago.
You can have worst record and draft 5th. Matter of fact you have most chance to draft 5th.

6th worst record by odds will most likley draft 8th.

Also Hawks and Suns are already kind a tanking. Don't know how else explain Lin not starting over Young.

This is the point though right? Hawks are actually playing players that are their future rather than specifically to win games in the now. They are doing it right in my opinion because they are giving Young minutes over players that would probably will them to wins, giving him in game experience, and will still get a high draft pick. The Magic are focused so much on wins it will probably come at the expense of giving minutes to Bamba and Isaac over Vuc and AG at some point, delaying the inevitable. This current roster is exceeding expectations, but I still couldn’t see them getting past the first round in a series.

Kind a?
Young does not play 4th quaters in favor of Lin.
He does not end their games. In last 6 games i think only in last one he played some min in clutch. And he only played last 3 min last night and did this:

Trae Young misses three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses two point shot
Trae Young misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses driving layup



I mean, it's pretty damn hard to convince coach to tank , you can order him to start rookie but you can't order him to lose games that will lead to him losing job.

Also i'm all in for playing rookie if he is good. It's not hard to play Dončić because guy is amazing. But how justify playing Young who shoots 38%FG and 24% for 3 over Lin who is playing well? Or Bamba over Vuc? You can't. You will,as coach ,lose your lockerroom quick.

Also it's not like Bamba is getting DNPs, he gets his 17-18 mpg. But he is absolutely terrible. 91,8 off rating,111
def rating, net rating of -19,3.
Among 442 players that entered single min of nba this season he has 395# off rating and 367# def rating.

Among rookies only Omari Spellman (30# pick, Okobo (31#pick)) and Harris Giles ( last year's pick who missed whole year) have worst off rating among players who logged more than 9 games and played more than 10mpg.

Also , for somebody drafted as defender, he has 55th of 68 players def rating among rookies.

Overall he has second worst net rating among all rookies who played more than 5 games. Harry Giles 3rd is only worst.

So when you sum it up,he simply isn't capable of doing more this year. He can consider himself lucky playing behind Vučević because from what we saw, it's better to being outplayed by allstar level player than if he is getting benched on regular bases for nba nobody like Birch. This is not nba rookie level bad, this is "Biyombo as clear upgrade" level bad.

Before my "haters" take what i say and start "ban him" parade, it's perfectly normal to suck in rookie year and i'm not saying team should trade ,DNP or cut him. Just keep using him like he is being used. Getting PT until he learns more about the game and until game slows down for him.

[VFX]

Tanking isn't even as valuable as it was year ago.
You can have worst record and draft 5th. Matter of fact you have most chance to draft 5th.

6th worst record by odds will most likley draft 8th.

Also Hawks and Suns are already kind a tanking. Don't know how else explain Lin not starting over Young.

This is the point though right? Hawks are actually playing players that are their future rather than specifically to win games in the now. They are doing it right in my opinion because they are giving Young minutes over players that would probably will them to wins, giving him in game experience, and will still get a high draft pick. The Magic are focused so much on wins it will probably come at the expense of giving minutes to Bamba and Isaac over Vuc and AG at some point, delaying the inevitable. This current roster is exceeding expectations, but I still couldn’t see them getting past the first round in a series.

Kind a?
Young does not play 4th quaters in favor of Lin.
He does not end their games. In last 6 games i think only in last one he played some min in clutch. And he only played last 3 min last night and did this:

Trae Young misses three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses two point shot
Trae Young misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses driving layup



I mean, it's pretty damn hard to convince coach to tank , you can order him to start rookie but you can't order him to lose games that will lead to him losing job.

Also i'm all in for playing rookie if he is good. It's not hard to play Dončić because guy is amazing. But how justify playing Young who shoots 38%FG and 24% for 3 over Lin who is playing well? Or Bamba over Vuc? You can't. You will,as coach ,lose your lockerroom quick.

Also it's not like Bamba is getting DNPs, he gets his 17-18 mpg. But he is absolutely terrible. 91,8 off rating,111
def rating, net rating of -19,3.
Among 442 players that entered single min of nba this season he has 395# off rating and 367# def rating.

Among rookies only Omari Spellman (30# pick, Okobo (31#pick)) and Harris Giles ( last year's pick who missed whole year) have worst off rating among players who logged more than 9 games and played more than 10mpg.

Also , for somebody drafted as defender, he has 55th of 68 players def rating among rookies.

Overall he has second worst net rating among all rookies who played more than 5 games. Harry Giles 3rd is only worst.

So when you sum it up,he simply isn't capable of doing more this year. He can consider himself lucky playing behind Vučević because from what we saw, it's better to being outplayed by allstar level player than if he is getting benched on regular bases for nba nobody like Birch. This is not nba rookie level bad, this is "Biyombo as clear upgrade" level bad.

Before my "haters" take what i say and start "ban him" parade, it's perfectly normal to suck in rookie year and i'm not saying team should trade ,DNP or cut him. Just keep using him like he is being used. Getting PT until he learns more about the game and until game slows down for him.

I’m not saying that the rookies are better players than the vets that play over them, but that it makes more sense in the long term to play them over players that you aren’t building a franchise around two or even one year down the road.

I simply don’t buy the idea that young players aren’t capable of playing extended minutes. They should have the most energy at this point in their careers. Will they always look great out there? No, but when you are in asset collection as a team it doesn’t matter anyway.

[pepe1991]

This is the point though right? Hawks are actually playing players that are their future rather than specifically to win games in the now. They are doing it right in my opinion because they are giving Young minutes over players that would probably will them to wins, giving him in game experience, and will still get a high draft pick. The Magic are focused so much on wins it will probably come at the expense of giving minutes to Bamba and Isaac over Vuc and AG at some point, delaying the inevitable. This current roster is exceeding expectations, but I still couldn’t see them getting past the first round in a series.

Kind a?
Young does not play 4th quaters in favor of Lin.
He does not end their games. In last 6 games i think only in last one he played some min in clutch. And he only played last 3 min last night and did this:

Trae Young misses three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses two point shot
Trae Young misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses driving layup



I mean, it's pretty damn hard to convince coach to tank , you can order him to start rookie but you can't order him to lose games that will lead to him losing job.

Also i'm all in for playing rookie if he is good. It's not hard to play Dončić because guy is amazing. But how justify playing Young who shoots 38%FG and 24% for 3 over Lin who is playing well? Or Bamba over Vuc? You can't. You will,as coach ,lose your lockerroom quick.

Also it's not like Bamba is getting DNPs, he gets his 17-18 mpg. But he is absolutely terrible. 91,8 off rating,111
def rating, net rating of -19,3.
Among 442 players that entered single min of nba this season he has 395# off rating and 367# def rating.

Among rookies only Omari Spellman (30# pick, Okobo (31#pick)) and Harris Giles ( last year's pick who missed whole year) have worst off rating among players who logged more than 9 games and played more than 10mpg.

Also , for somebody drafted as defender, he has 55th of 68 players def rating among rookies.

Overall he has second worst net rating among all rookies who played more than 5 games. Harry Giles 3rd is only worst.

So when you sum it up,he simply isn't capable of doing more this year. He can consider himself lucky playing behind Vučević because from what we saw, it's better to being outplayed by allstar level player than if he is getting benched on regular bases for nba nobody like Birch. This is not nba rookie level bad, this is "Biyombo as clear upgrade" level bad.

Before my "haters" take what i say and start "ban him" parade, it's perfectly normal to suck in rookie year and i'm not saying team should trade ,DNP or cut him. Just keep using him like he is being used. Getting PT until he learns more about the game and until game slows down for him.

I’m not saying that the rookies are better players than the vets that play over them, but that it makes more sense in the long term to play them over players that you aren’t building a franchise around two or even one year down the road.

I simply don’t buy the idea that young players aren’t capable of playing extended minutes. They should have the most energy at this point in their careers. Will they always look great out there? No, but when you are in asset collection as a team it doesn’t matter anyway.

Well yea if it's coin flip between them in quality sure. That's why i want to see Isaac over Iwundu or Simmons.
But in Bamba's case it's not a case .

Also it's unclear what direction of Magic is, there is solid chance they will just resign Vučević, it's not like he is 35.

[VFX]

Kind a?
Young does not play 4th quaters in favor of Lin.
He does not end their games. In last 6 games i think only in last one he played some min in clutch. And he only played last 3 min last night and did this:

Trae Young misses three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses two point shot
Trae Young misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot
Trae Young misses driving layup



I mean, it's pretty damn hard to convince coach to tank , you can order him to start rookie but you can't order him to lose games that will lead to him losing job.

Also i'm all in for playing rookie if he is good. It's not hard to play Dončić because guy is amazing. But how justify playing Young who shoots 38%FG and 24% for 3 over Lin who is playing well? Or Bamba over Vuc? You can't. You will,as coach ,lose your lockerroom quick.

Also it's not like Bamba is getting DNPs, he gets his 17-18 mpg. But he is absolutely terrible. 91,8 off rating,111
def rating, net rating of -19,3.
Among 442 players that entered single min of nba this season he has 395# off rating and 367# def rating.

Among rookies only Omari Spellman (30# pick, Okobo (31#pick)) and Harris Giles ( last year's pick who missed whole year) have worst off rating among players who logged more than 9 games and played more than 10mpg.

Also , for somebody drafted as defender, he has 55th of 68 players def rating among rookies.

Overall he has second worst net rating among all rookies who played more than 5 games. Harry Giles 3rd is only worst.

So when you sum it up,he simply isn't capable of doing more this year. He can consider himself lucky playing behind Vučević because from what we saw, it's better to being outplayed by allstar level player than if he is getting benched on regular bases for nba nobody like Birch. This is not nba rookie level bad, this is "Biyombo as clear upgrade" level bad.

Before my "haters" take what i say and start "ban him" parade, it's perfectly normal to suck in rookie year and i'm not saying team should trade ,DNP or cut him. Just keep using him like he is being used. Getting PT until he learns more about the game and until game slows down for him.

I’m not saying that the rookies are better players than the vets that play over them, but that it makes more sense in the long term to play them over players that you aren’t building a franchise around two or even one year down the road.

I simply don’t buy the idea that young players aren’t capable of playing extended minutes. They should have the most energy at this point in their careers. Will they always look great out there? No, but when you are in asset collection as a team it doesn’t matter anyway.

Well yea if it's coin flip between them in quality sure. That's why i want to see Isaac over Iwundu or Simmons.
But in Bamba's case it's not a case .

Also it's unclear what direction of Magic is, there is solid chance they will just resign Vučević, it's not like he is 35.

It’s 100% unforgivable to spend a #6 lottery pick on a player to be a backup for the next 2-3 years on a team that has no shot at even winning their conference. WeHam won’t have the balls to do it and if they do they’ll look extremely incompetent (which they are) imo.

[pepe1991]

I’m not saying that the rookies are better players than the vets that play over them, but that it makes more sense in the long term to play them over players that you aren’t building a franchise around two or even one year down the road.

I simply don’t buy the idea that young players aren’t capable of playing extended minutes. They should have the most energy at this point in their careers. Will they always look great out there? No, but when you are in asset collection as a team it doesn’t matter anyway.

Well yea if it's coin flip between them in quality sure. That's why i want to see Isaac over Iwundu or Simmons.
But in Bamba's case it's not a case .

Also it's unclear what direction of Magic is, there is solid chance they will just resign Vučević, it's not like he is 35.

It’s 100% unforgivable to spend a #6 lottery pick on a player to be a backup for the next 2-3 years on a team that has no shot at even winning their conference. WeHam won’t have the balls to do it and if they do they’ll look extremely incompetent (which they are) imo.

That's execlly what Hennigan did with Hezonja. Signed Harris, kept Oladipo and Evan.
Suns did it this year with Mikal.
Philly did it 3 times in a row for Cs.
Celtics picking Tatum, in vacuum ,was stupid ,as they signed Hayward and drafted Brown year before.

It's nothing new in nba, teams go what in their mind is BPA.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

[NavalAviator94]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

Agreed. Play him and Evan at the 2/3.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

[OrlandO]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

We saw that last season... he managed to force up 11 fga per game as a starter last season and he looked like a black hole doing it. This year would be worse since he can't shoot at all anymore.

[OrlandO]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

Agreed. Play him and Evan at the 2/3.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

Fournier and Simmons starting together would be a nightmare.... both are score-firsts guards with tunnel vision and they're both struggling really badly with their shooting.

[basketballRob]

delete

[basketballRob]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

Agreed. Play him and Evan at the 2/3.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

Fournier and Simmons starting together would be a nightmare.... both are score-firsts guards with tunnel vision and they're both struggling really badly with their shooting.

Iwundu hasn't been any better. Maybe Simmons can fit in with the starters better than in a reserve role. One thing he gives that we lack is drawing fouls, if the other starters and the Clifford can somehow get him to play team ball.

I think Simmons is also more likely to screen than Iwundu and it might open up Fournier.

I'm guessing Simmons will start tonight and Iwundu will not play.

[basketballRob]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

We saw that last season... he managed to force up 11 fga per game as a starter last season and he looked like a black hole doing it. This year would be worse since he can't shoot at all anymore.

I think half the squad was injured in some of those games.

[NavalAviator94]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

Agreed. Play him and Evan at the 2/3.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

Fournier and Simmons starting together would be a nightmare.... both are score-firsts guards with tunnel vision and they're both struggling really badly with their shooting.

It certainly helped us with the Lakers. It's not ideal but it is better than Iwundu until Isaac is ready to play starter minutes. Simmons has been frustrating this year but he's better than he's shown and Iwundu.

One thing I have to get off my chest from yesterday's game. Did anyone watch Kuzma "rock the baby" like Russ Westbrook does playing Iwundu? He's a second year player doing that to Iwundu. That pissed me off and it should have pissed off Iwundu too but he continued to get owned and finally benched in the second half. Pathetic.

[bargnanimvp]

Why being critial to players means you are "turning heel " on them?
I mean, every fanbase does it, it doesn't mean you want to get rid of them. Just pointing out obvious.

Bamba is rookie, it's ok to be meh. It's just objective to say that among top 8 picks ,he is least nba ready. Nobody can argue that it would not be nice that it would be refreshing to have finally one nba ready rookie in years, but not gonna happen this year.

Isaac isn't perimeter player/wing. Some of us though he isn't year ago, now we all know that and we can move on.
He reminds me so much on Pascal Siacam, and i hope next year he can take leap like Siacam did this year ( MIP candidate easly ).

I was about to type same thing. How is it that other teams draft players that can produce in their first couple of years, instead
of being a farm team?

They pick higher than us or they pick guys who aren't projects. Everyone knew isaac and bamba were project picks, when we drafted bamba some people moaned about another project. With Hezonja it was just an unlucky bust pick but with those two we knew what we were getting into

[Nyce_1]

checking in....
- we're making playoffs
- props to Iwundu's improvement
- Fournier gotta go. Give me Beal please.
- We need a starting PG because DJ with 2nd unit would have them humming. With the available PGs in the summer, i'm not worried.
- Vuc...all-star. wow; can't believe i wrote that
- Mo is a rookie and on par with what expected. I think he balls out in March
- Cliff is doing a great job. pulling right strings and he isn't afraid to adjust rotations as needed
- Ross...lifesaver. Give him lifetime contract.
- Fultz....hmmmm don't know. His mentality scares me but if the package is only Simmons, Grant, OKC pick....welcome to the family. Not Ross though .

I miss posting but zero time with these kids. I try to watch all games though, and still rooting hard for the good guys.

[OrlandO]

Agreed. Play him and Evan at the 2/3.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

Fournier and Simmons starting together would be a nightmare.... both are score-firsts guards with tunnel vision and they're both struggling really badly with their shooting.

Iwundu hasn't been any better. Maybe Simmons can fit in with the starters better than in a reserve role. One thing he gives that we lack is drawing fouls, if the other starters and the Clifford can somehow get him to play team ball.

I think Simmons is also more likely to screen than Iwundu and it might open up Fournier.

I'm guessing Simmons will start tonight and Iwundu will not play.

The starting unit is moving the ball pretty well this season. I just don't want to see that disrupted. Simmons will put shots up whether he's making them or not... it's just who he is. He's like a poor man's fournier. If he wasn't struggling so much after his wrist surgery and recovery it would make a lot more sense.

Iwundu takes 3.6 shots per game as a starter... he knows his role. He might not give you much production, but he's also not creating a shortage of touches for the main scorers and he won't shoot you out of games. What I'm worried about with Iwundu is if opponents start targeting him by daring him to shoot every game... that would defeat the whole purpose of him in that lineup.

I'd rather put Isaac back in the SL.

[yoyojw17]

10-10.... NOT TOO BAD... especially when you consider the fact that 6 of those losses were against teams ranked in the top 9 of this weeks Power Ranking. For having a schedule where we are adding a new coach and finding our way.... i'm pretty proud of these guys. As they continue to grow... let's see how they continue to perform!

hit # 16 in the latest Power Ranking
https://www.nba.com/powerrankings/2018-19-week-7

[yoyojw17]

checking in....
- we're making playoffs
- props to Iwundu's improvement
- Fournier gotta go. Give me Beal please.
- We need a starting PG because DJ with 2nd unit would have them humming. With the available PGs in the summer, i'm not worried.
- Vuc...all-star. wow; can't believe i wrote that
- Mo is a rookie and on par with what expected. I think he balls out in March
- Cliff is doing a great job. pulling right strings and he isn't afraid to adjust rotations as needed
- Ross...lifesaver. Give him lifetime contract.
- Fultz....hmmmm don't know. His mentality scares me but if the package is only Simmons, Grant, OKC pick....welcome to the family. Not Ross though .

I miss posting but zero time with these kids. I try to watch all games though, and still rooting hard for the good guys.

haha... Kids are cooler than us grumpy people.

Agree with everything you say.... maybe a bit more lenient on Fournier and hope he bounces back... but I would happily take beal as well.

And that DJ comment hits the nail on the head.

Yup.... Simmons, Grant and OKC pick for Fultz... well worth rolling the dice!

Iwundu doesn't have the numbers... but i think his contributions to the makeup of the starting lineup goes well beyond the stat sheet. He guards the tougher wing assignment and allows everyone else to get theirs... and places more talent in the second unit.

As confidence in JI's health comes further along i'm sure he will make the starting lineup soon.

[tiderulz]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

[MagicFan101]

Simmons should be a starter from now on, he can't be as much of a ball hog playing with the main guys

Yeah, I don’t fully hate Simmons like others here do but he will not do well alongside Vuc and Evan. Simmons has one gear and that isn’t changing.