Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[Knightro]

I remember the day Dwight got traded and I mentioned that people better be ready for a 10 year rebuild then being trashed resoundly that Henny was gonna flip the team in 3-4 years into contenders.

What’s funny/sad is that if Hennigan hadn’t lost his friggin mind in 2015 going into 2016, he’d have pulled off a decent little rebuild and that’s with no lotto luck whatsoever.

The Magic right now could have a team that looks like this...

G: Payton
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Sabonis
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Plus whoever they would have drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2018. They probably wouldn’t have been bad enough to be in position to get Isaac and Bamba, but perhaps Bam Adebayo and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander?

This really isn’t even that big of a what if either. All these guys, minus Sabonis who was that year’s lotto pick, were all on the team at the same time!

If Skiles never gets hired and starts feuding with all those young guys, maybe Hennigan never loses his friggin mind and breaks up that promising young core.

Every move Hennigan made after the start of the 2015 season was just an absolute disaster.

[Maikson]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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[tiderulz]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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people say that because Victor himself said it.

“Going there and seeing him do that, just seeing his year overall last year definitely helped me realize that I gotta put in a lot of work to get on that level,” Oladipo said. “So, he definitely helped influence my growth both on and off the court. He was an amazing resource, especially last year, to learn from him. And I apply it to everyday life today.”

[darthcheech2000]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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Are you serious?

Oladipo played, practiced, LIVED with Westbrook during his most focused and determined season. You're telling me that playing him twice a season, and watching his game highlights are enough?

C'mon man.

[OrlChamps2030]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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people say that because Victor himself said it.

“Going there and seeing him do that, just seeing his year overall last year definitely helped me realize that I gotta put in a lot of work to get on that level,” Oladipo said. “So, he definitely helped influence my growth both on and off the court. He was an amazing resource, especially last year, to learn from him. And I apply it to everyday life today.”

Yeah Oladipo said it himself, he HELPED influence him. You don’t become a MVP candidate solely because of influence. That’s just people trying to feel better about being a fan of this pathetic organization.

[rcklsscognition]

In the end the player that shoots more is typically going to score more. Oladipo, Tobias, AG....all struggled to get shot attempts here. They all projected to be 24ppg players from day 1 yet we failed to get them the shots. I can't keep seeing this happen to player after player and blame them. It doesn't make sense. Why did Oladipo shoot twice as many threes last season compared to his sophmore year here? The percentages weren't significantly different. I ran the numbers, roughly equates to 20 points in total for an entire season if he shot worse percentages but similar shot attempts.

If he shot as many 3s in his time here that he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 20ppg his sophmore year. At the same time, if he had shot as many 2s in his sophmore year as he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 23ppg. The difference between then and now? A few percentage points in his shooting percentage. So why wasn't he shooting more? Was it that he was told not to? Was it because our development staff didn't know what to do with him? Did he not want to? Did the other players complain? I have no idea. But history repeated itself with Tobias. It is unfolding before our eyes with AG and Bamba just got on the Orlando Magic development conveyor belt that we all know leads to mediocrity.

[drsd]

Every move Hennigan made after the start of the 2015 season was just an absolute disaster.

Perhaps this is why WeHamm is so cautious with this last off-season. That said, when Vučević moves on, I would suspect that that is only the first of several movements leading to a subnational revamp.

..

[YosemiteSam]

Guess which team was "drafted" dead last? This was a silly exercise by shallow fans mostly but it does continue to demonstrate how irrelevant and uninteresting the Magic are to the casual fan. It isn't that they are bad (which they are) it is also that they are boring to watch (lack of shooting and ball movement) and show no real promise for the future (wingspan is not interesting to watch). We suck, we're frustrating and boring and we are irrelevant. Orlando Magic basketball - it's PURE MAGIC!!!

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[pepe1991]

Oladipo -Westbrook thing and how hard workers influence others


During Celtics years Rey Allen, well known for his hard work inspired Pierce and Bass to work with him before games and after shootarounds. Both had massive improvments in shooting.
Rey later moved to Miami and Lebron followed his work. Lebron in 2013 ,with working out with Ray Allen shot career high 40,6% for 3 and 76% FTs (career average 72%).



Durant story -
Some of the roots of what made Durant such an efficient scoring machine can be traced back to the summer of 2008 when he was trying to make the roster for Beijing and the team was given a day off in Las Vegas.

We’ll let Durant pick up the story from there.

“We had the day off, but they said we could get some shots up if we wanted, so I decided to head over with [Oklahoma City teammate and Team USA hopeful] Jeff Green.

“Kobe [Bryant] was the only guy on the bus, and that spoke volumes to me — he’s the best player in the game, yet he’s always willing to come work on his game, so that kind of motivated me and Jeff,” Durant said. “He went by himself, he got a lot of shots up, and by the time he was done you could see he had gotten better over that hour. Like I said, it was a big inspiration to me and Jeff.”

When players arive in nba they need role model to see what it takes to make extra leap.

[Def Swami]

In the end the player that shoots more is typically going to score more. Oladipo, Tobias, AG....all struggled to get shot attempts here. They all projected to be 24ppg players from day 1 yet we failed to get them the shots. I can't keep seeing this happen to player after player and blame them. It doesn't make sense. Why did Oladipo shoot twice as many threes last season compared to his sophmore year here? The percentages weren't significantly different. I ran the numbers, roughly equates to 20 points in total for an entire season if he shot worse percentages but similar shot attempts.

If he shot as many 3s in his time here that he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 20ppg his sophmore year. At the same time, if he had shot as many 2s in his sophmore year as he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 23ppg. The difference between then and now? A few percentage points in his shooting percentage. So why wasn't he shooting more? Was it that he was told not to? Was it because our development staff didn't know what to do with him? Did he not want to? Did the other players complain? I have no idea. But history repeated itself with Tobias. It is unfolding before our eyes with AG and Bamba just got on the Orlando Magic development conveyor belt that we all know leads to mediocrity.

Scary but true.

[Nemesis21]

In the end the player that shoots more is typically going to score more. Oladipo, Tobias, AG....all struggled to get shot attempts here. They all projected to be 24ppg players from day 1 yet we failed to get them the shots. I can't keep seeing this happen to player after player and blame them. It doesn't make sense. Why did Oladipo shoot twice as many threes last season compared to his sophmore year here? The percentages weren't significantly different. I ran the numbers, roughly equates to 20 points in total for an entire season if he shot worse percentages but similar shot attempts.

If he shot as many 3s in his time here that he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 20ppg his sophmore year. At the same time, if he had shot as many 2s in his sophmore year as he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 23ppg. The difference between then and now? A few percentage points in his shooting percentage. So why wasn't he shooting more? Was it that he was told not to? Was it because our development staff didn't know what to do with him? Did he not want to? Did the other players complain? I have no idea. But history repeated itself with Tobias. It is unfolding before our eyes with AG and Bamba just got on the Orlando Magic development conveyor belt that we all know leads to mediocrity.

Scary but true.

1000% true

[fendilim]

In the end the player that shoots more is typically going to score more. Oladipo, Tobias, AG....all struggled to get shot attempts here. They all projected to be 24ppg players from day 1 yet we failed to get them the shots. I can't keep seeing this happen to player after player and blame them. It doesn't make sense. Why did Oladipo shoot twice as many threes last season compared to his sophmore year here? The percentages weren't significantly different. I ran the numbers, roughly equates to 20 points in total for an entire season if he shot worse percentages but similar shot attempts.

If he shot as many 3s in his time here that he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 20ppg his sophmore year. At the same time, if he had shot as many 2s in his sophmore year as he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 23ppg. The difference between then and now? A few percentage points in his shooting percentage. So why wasn't he shooting more? Was it that he was told not to? Was it because our development staff didn't know what to do with him? Did he not want to? Did the other players complain? I have no idea. But history repeated itself with Tobias. It is unfolding before our eyes with AG and Bamba just got on the Orlando Magic development conveyor belt that we all know leads to mediocrity.

If you mean ppg, sure they'd get those number with more shots, but if we're talking about efficiency of those shots, I beg to disagree. During Oladipo and Harris' last year here, their shot making percentages were already a lot better than Gordon's now.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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people say that because Victor himself said it.

“Going there and seeing him do that, just seeing his year overall last year definitely helped me realize that I gotta put in a lot of work to get on that level,” Oladipo said. “So, he definitely helped influence my growth both on and off the court. He was an amazing resource, especially last year, to learn from him. And I apply it to everyday life today.”

Well yeah of course Westbrook influenced him, he was traded there.

That doesnt mean wouldn't have reached his potential here nor does he say that. It just means that something else wouldve motivated him...say confidence from the team that drafted him by giving him a nice contract perhaps? He wouldve turned into the Oladipo we know now with or without playing with Westbrook imo. That was already his trajectory

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[Catledge]

“We had the day off, but they said we could get some shots up if we wanted, so I decided to head over with [Oklahoma City teammate and Team USA hopeful] Jeff Green.

“Kobe [Bryant] was the only guy on the bus, and that spoke volumes to me — he’s the best player in the game, yet he’s always willing to come work on his game, so that kind of motivated me and Jeff,” Durant said. “He went by himself, he got a lot of shots up, and by the time he was done you could see he had gotten better over that hour. Like I said, it was a big inspiration to me and Jeff.”

So both Green and Durant watched Kobe work. Durant blows up. Green does not. And you conclude that the difference maker was watching Kobe rather than Durant and Green's individual work ethic and talent? I'm not sure you understand how variables and control groups work.

Every hard-working superstar has 11+ teammates. Almost all of those teammates don't blow up into hard-working superstars themselves. The ones who do blow up do so because of their talent and work ethic, not because of somebody else's talent and work ethic.

The Magic have been incompetent in any number of ways over the last decade, but the most consequential way has been drafting and trading for players who just weren't that talented while trading away the few who were. Stuff like development programs, coaching, teammates, and systems are mostly just noise by comparison to talent and work ethic.

[PennytoShaq]

Can we not acknowledge that Oladipoi was not in the same shape here that he was after he was traded and saw how guys like Westbrook take care of themselves? I think he he lost like 15 pounds. That makes a huge difference.

I’d see that dude downtown at 3am partying and scarfing pizza constantly. Is that somehow on the coaches to micromanage him and run his entire life? Reality with Oladipo, he had the talent but it took a few catalysts to wake him up and make him realize he was blowing it.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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Are you serious?

Oladipo played, practiced, LIVED with Westbrook during his most focused and determined season. You're telling me that playing him twice a season, and watching his game highlights are enough?

C'mon man.

Well first of all watching highlights? Stop it.
These guys work out with each other in the offseason and stay in contact all the time. He didnt have to live under the same roof like some monk to get to where he is now. Please.

I'm not denying Westbrook had an impact, just that had he stayed here his motivation wouldve come from some other source. I beleive Russ was the influence available to him once Hennigan traded him there. Natural talent and work ethic played a bigfer role.

Can we not acknowledge that Oladipoi was not in the same shape here that he was after he was traded and saw how guys like Westbrook take care of themselves? I think he he lost like 15 pounds. That makes a huge difference.

I’d see that dude downtown at 3am partying and scarfing pizza constantly. Is that somehow on the coaches to micromanage him and run his entire life? Reality with Oladipo, he had the talent but it took a few catalysts to wake him up and make him realize he was blowing it.

People only knew that he was slightly overweight when he brought it up but yes, Agreed. As long as we also acknowledge that players realize this and get in better shape all the time without having to live or play with an elite player.

They cant pick up a damn phone and talk to them about their routine or work out with eachother in the off-season? He didn't have to live or play with RW to realize he had to lose 15 lbs or get in better shape imo. He wouldve figured it out here.


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[Catledge]

In the end the player that shoots more is typically going to score more. Oladipo, Tobias, AG....all struggled to get shot attempts here. They all projected to be 24ppg players from day 1 yet we failed to get them the shots. I can't keep seeing this happen to player after player and blame them. It doesn't make sense. Why did Oladipo shoot twice as many threes last season compared to his sophmore year here? The percentages weren't significantly different. I ran the numbers, roughly equates to 20 points in total for an entire season if he shot worse percentages but similar shot attempts.

If he shot as many 3s in his time here that he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 20ppg his sophmore year. At the same time, if he had shot as many 2s in his sophmore year as he did in Indiana, he would have averaged 23ppg. The difference between then and now? A few percentage points in his shooting percentage. So why wasn't he shooting more? Was it that he was told not to? Was it because our development staff didn't know what to do with him? Did he not want to? Did the other players complain? I have no idea. But history repeated itself with Tobias. It is unfolding before our eyes with AG and Bamba just got on the Orlando Magic development conveyor belt that we all know leads to mediocrity.

So you're making the case that AG and Bamba's long-term development hinges on a difference of 3 FGA per game? That seems extremely far fetched to me.

[Catledge]

Can we not acknowledge that Oladipoi was not in the same shape here that he was after he was traded and saw how guys like Westbrook take care of themselves? I think he he lost like 15 pounds. That makes a huge difference.

I’d see that dude downtown at 3am partying and scarfing pizza constantly. Is that somehow on the coaches to micromanage him and run his entire life? Reality with Oladipo, he had the talent but it took a few catalysts to wake him up and make him realize he was blowing it.

When I was 22, I stayed out until the bars closed and then overpaid for greasy pizza by the slice. Then I grew up and became a better professional. I didn't need to watch my industry's equivalent of Westbrook to go through that maturation process.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Why does reading this thread make me feel so depressed about the season and the Magic