2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Preseason Strikes Back

[MagicFan101]

We can debate all year (and we have) if the Harris trade was good or not, but picking apart a single move is what TV analysts do. Why not step back for a minute and think like a GM? How about we analyze the entire process rather than one move?

The big moves we made involved Dipo, Skiles and Harris.

Moving them brought us Ibaka, Vogel, playing time for AG and Mario and justification for spending big on BB.

Our team today is a result of all of these moves. Do any of you actually believe we are worse today than in any of the last 4 years?

[EAS Law]

We can debate all year (and we have) if the Harris trade was good or not, but picking apart a single move is what TV analysts do. Why not step back for a minute and think like a GM? How about we analyze the entire process rather than one move?

The big moves we made involved Dipo, Skiles and Harris.

Moving them brought us Ibaka, Vogel, playing time for AG and Mario and justification for spending big on BB.

Our team today is a result of all of these moves. Do any of you actually believe we are worse today than in any of the last 4 years?

Unfortunately, it appears that about 75% of the board does.

[j_n]

We could have kept Tobias, if we're just signing him to a Jeff Green, and held up until we get an asset in return. It's not like no team is interested with him, like what you said previously.

Doing so would have left you with less cap space for this offseason, granted we havent been able to get a star player with that cap space but that hindsight, at the time it made perfect sense to have as much flexibility as you can to go after guys like Biz/Barnes/Conely/Batum/Horford/Parsons etc...

But even if Rob knew he would have just enough cap space without dealing Harris, what do you do with him this year? do you bench him and make him a 20 mpg guy making starter money? do you start him over Gordon at the 4? over Fournier/ at the 3?

With Vuc on the team you need a PF that can either make threes to give him space to operate in the post or one whose a great shotblocker that will cover for him, ideally one that can do both, Harris(and Gordon) was good at neither, as a 3 he was too slow on defense and not a good enough shooter to compensate for our poor shooting team

he was a bad fit and the longer you hold on to him the lower his trade value gets.

[MagicFan101]

We can debate all year (and we have) if the Harris trade was good or not, but picking apart a single move is what TV analysts do. Why not step back for a minute and think like a GM? How about we analyze the entire process rather than one move?

The big moves we made involved Dipo, Skiles and Harris.

Moving them brought us Ibaka, Vogel, playing time for AG and Mario and justification for spending big on BB.

Our team today is a result of all of these moves. Do any of you actually believe we are worse today than in any of the last 4 years?

Unfortunately, it appears that about 75% of the board does.

Don't get me wrong. Saying we are better than recent Magic teams isn't saying much. How much better we are is to be determined. Ultimately we need someone to emerge as a super star or we need to add one but we are moving in the right direction.

[j_n]

We can debate all year (and we have) if the Harris trade was good or not, but picking apart a single move is what TV analysts do. Why not step back for a minute and think like a GM? How about we analyze the entire process rather than one move?

The big moves we made involved Dipo, Skiles and Harris.

Moving them brought us Ibaka, Vogel, playing time for AG and Mario and justification for spending big on BB.

Our team today is a result of all of these moves. Do any of you actually believe we are worse today than in any of the last 4 years?

Unfortunately, it appears that about 75% of the board does.

I think it has more to do with people putting a timetable for returning to the playoffs after rebuilding from scratch, which is understandable but also not the best way of looking at things.
First of all, many teams needed over 4 years in the lottery after rebuilding, the Pistons needed 6, the Pacers needed 5, the Wizards needed 5, the Nets are going need a lot of time, the sixers will be lucky to get there in 5/6, the Raptors were sucking for a while, the Cavs missed it for 4 years straight before getting lucky with Lebron, the Knicks mortaged their future to try and get there in 4 etc...

Secondly, its not just about getting to the playoffs, its about building a sustainable upcoming team that will be competitive every year and with the young core we have I think were about to become a playoff team for many years to come, hopefully a contender eventually, to me thats more important than making the playoffs after 4 years instead of 5 or 6.

[tiderulz]

Harris was not a great player by any means and had limitations, but **** he's better than what we have now lol.

This makes absolutely no sense and is not even true.

He's better than Gordon? lol, no.

Better than Ibaka? Cmon man.

offensively, yes.

[PennytoShaq]

Harris was not a great player by any means and had limitations, but **** he's better than what we have now lol.

This makes absolutely no sense and is not even true.

He's better than Gordon? lol, no.

Better than Ibaka? Cmon man.

offensively, yes.

The game is a lot more than PPG. I hope you would understand that. Just because Harris can put in 16 PPG does not make him better. Most people project Gordon doing that at least and Ibaka gives you 15 while being a far superior defender. Both of these guys are far better two way players than Harris and that is what teams need in todays switch heavy NBA.

[EAS Law]

We can debate all year (and we have) if the Harris trade was good or not, but picking apart a single move is what TV analysts do. Why not step back for a minute and think like a GM? How about we analyze the entire process rather than one move?

The big moves we made involved Dipo, Skiles and Harris.

Moving them brought us Ibaka, Vogel, playing time for AG and Mario and justification for spending big on BB.

Our team today is a result of all of these moves. Do any of you actually believe we are worse today than in any of the last 4 years?

Unfortunately, it appears that about 75% of the board does.

[tiderulz]

You really don't get this eh? Tobias Harris has a long term contract that the Magic would rather give to a starter at some point. Yes, Jeff Green makes that but he expires in one year, and we needed a really good bench player on this team.

It's about future flexibility. The Magic can extend Gordon next season if they choose to because they will have that money and can STILL go after more free agents or just resign Ibaka. Orlando believes that Gordon is the starter. They probably believe Ibaka and Biz or Vuc are as well. They can retain this lineup now because Harris is not here and Green will not make that kind of money next season (at least from us).

You can only keep so many of your young players. Rob evaluated and chose. Many of us believe he chose wisely. That's the point.

We could have kept Tobias, if we're just signing him to a Jeff Green, and held up until we get an asset in return. It's not like no team is interested with him, like what you said previously.

Ok, so you really think Rob got all these killer offers for Tobias and turned them all down? Be real about it. Rob got offers for guys on bad contracts that would have impacted our future flexibility. One reason he went for Jennings and Illy is because he could let them walk or trade them in the summer. And what happened this summer? Exactly.

He got barely any interest over his free agency summer compared to what people expected. There was no reports of him meeting with any teams, no recruitment at all. That's a fact. You won't find anything past a Kyler rumor that a few teams reached out. If you think that equates to him being traded for a star player or asset on a good contract you are kidding yourself.

SVG himself said he was surprised that Orlando didnt ask for a pick back in the trade as well. as for meeting with teams, his people were talking to the Lakers, Boston and Detroit. you can easily find stringers reporting that.

[EAS Law]

We can debate all year (and we have) if the Harris trade was good or not, but picking apart a single move is what TV analysts do. Why not step back for a minute and think like a GM? How about we analyze the entire process rather than one move?

The big moves we made involved Dipo, Skiles and Harris.

Moving them brought us Ibaka, Vogel, playing time for AG and Mario and justification for spending big on BB.

Our team today is a result of all of these moves. Do any of you actually believe we are worse today than in any of the last 4 years?

Unfortunately, it appears that about 75% of the board does.

Don't get me wrong. Saying we are better than recent Magic teams isn't saying much. How much better we are is to be determined. Ultimately we need someone to emerge as a super star or we need to add one but we are moving in the right direction.

I personally believe we are far better. We addressed our pressing needs and weaknesses this offseason, and everyone on the team still has room to grow. I think we are in a good position for this season and beyond.

[EAS Law]

Btw, when is the first preseason broadcast and which channel?

[MagicFan101]

I still don't get why people come on here and fight for Harris as a great offensive player.

He was consistent and that is great to have off the bench but where was that second or third gear that make the greats great? Guys like Durant, Curry and TMac do it nightly. Harris didn't have to be that but he never did it. He never looked unguardable. He just took advantage of the opportunity and made simple plays. That doesn't cut it when we move beyond bottom feeder territory and want to compete in the playoffs.

I don't know what we have in AG or Mario yet but both have had jaw dropping moments that have you thinking this kid could become something great.

I NEVER for one single second saw that in Harris.

I applaud him for not crying in the media, but this move screamed of a sit down conversation with Henny where he just wasn't excited about a 6th man role and Henny not excited about starting him over AG or Mario. This was a mutual agreement to part ways. We walked away clean of a big contract and he gets his chance to start with a solid club. He will speak highly of Henny in locker rooms and that will help us in free agency.

The story here is bigger than just not getting a 2nd pick tossed in.

[ChosenSavior]

Btw, when is the first preseason broadcast and which channel?

There is a game tonight against Memphis. It is not being televised so the best hope will be a jumbotron feed that can be streamed.

[fendilim]

I still don't get why people come on here and fight for Harris as a great offensive player.

He was consistent and that is great to have off the bench but where was that second or third gear that make the greats great? Guys like Durant, Curry and TMac do it nightly. Harris didn't have to be that but he never did it. He never looked unguardable. He just took advantage of the opportunity and made simple plays. That doesn't cut it when we move beyond bottom feeder territory and want to compete in the playoffs.

I don't know what we have in AG or Mario yet but both have had jaw dropping moments that have you thinking this kid could become something great.

I NEVER for one single second saw that in Harris.

I applaud him for not crying in the media, but this move screamed of a sit down conversation with Henny where he just wasn't excited about a 6th man role and Henny not excited about starting him over AG or Mario. This was a mutual agreement to part ways. We walked away clean of a big contract and he gets his chance to start with a solid club. He will speak highly of Henny in locker rooms and that will help us in free agency.

The story here is bigger than just not getting a 2nd pick tossed in.

none of our players are gonna be scorers like tmac, durantir curry. Nobody said that. But harris was one of our better offensive players lasr year. And thats clear.

No ones questioning that Harris had to be moved. But why we only got That in return is the question.
When you have the president of the basketball operations of the team he has been traded to even saying that they were surprised that they didnt even have to trade a 1st rounder for Harris. Go figure.

[MagicFan101]

I still don't get why people come on here and fight for Harris as a great offensive player.

He was consistent and that is great to have off the bench but where was that second or third gear that make the greats great? Guys like Durant, Curry and TMac do it nightly. Harris didn't have to be that but he never did it. He never looked unguardable. He just took advantage of the opportunity and made simple plays. That doesn't cut it when we move beyond bottom feeder territory and want to compete in the playoffs.

I don't know what we have in AG or Mario yet but both have had jaw dropping moments that have you thinking this kid could become something great.

I NEVER for one single second saw that in Harris.

I applaud him for not crying in the media, but this move screamed of a sit down conversation with Henny where he just wasn't excited about a 6th man role and Henny not excited about starting him over AG or Mario. This was a mutual agreement to part ways. We walked away clean of a big contract and he gets his chance to start with a solid club. He will speak highly of Henny in locker rooms and that will help us in free agency.

The story here is bigger than just not getting a 2nd pick tossed in.

none of our players are gonna be scorers like tmac, durantir curry. Nobody said that. But harris was one of our better offensive players lasr year. And thats clear.

No ones questioning that Harris had to be moved. But why we only got That in return is the question.
When you have the president of the basketball operations of the team he has been traded to even saying that they were surprised that they didnt even have to trade a 1st rounder for Harris. Go figure.

So few people here understand the concept of "the big picture".

[Orlwillbeback]

Harris was not a great player by any means and had limitations, but **** he's better than what we have now lol.

This makes absolutely no sense and is not even true.

He's better than Gordon? lol, no.

Better than Ibaka? Cmon man.

He is most certainly much better than Green and Hezonja and with Gordon it's debateable at this stage. They have a similar PER but Gordon is probably better at defense and passing but Harris is much better offensively, which would probably be more important in this starting lineup.

[JF5]

I still don't get why people come on here and fight for Harris as a great offensive player.

He was consistent and that is great to have off the bench but where was that second or third gear that make the greats great? Guys like Durant, Curry and TMac do it nightly. Harris didn't have to be that but he never did it. He never looked unguardable. He just took advantage of the opportunity and made simple plays. That doesn't cut it when we move beyond bottom feeder territory and want to compete in the playoffs.

I don't know what we have in AG or Mario yet but both have had jaw dropping moments that have you thinking this kid could become something great.

I NEVER for one single second saw that in Harris.

I applaud him for not crying in the media, but this move screamed of a sit down conversation with Henny where he just wasn't excited about a 6th man role and Henny not excited about starting him over AG or Mario. This was a mutual agreement to part ways. We walked away clean of a big contract and he gets his chance to start with a solid club. He will speak highly of Henny in locker rooms and that will help us in free agency.

The story here is bigger than just not getting a 2nd pick tossed in.

none of our players are gonna be scorers like tmac, durantir curry. Nobody said that. But harris was one of our better offensive players lasr year. And thats clear.

No ones questioning that Harris had to be moved. But why we only got That in return is the question.
When you have the president of the basketball operations of the team he has been traded to even saying that they were surprised that they didnt even have to trade a 1st rounder for Harris. Go figure.

So few people here understand the concept of "the big picture".

People understand the big picture...

A lot of people didn't mind if Harris was moved... Its just they wanted some sort of return... And that return netted not even a mid-to-late first round pick.

Resigning him was essentially pointless in retrospect.

[tiderulz]

This makes absolutely no sense and is not even true.

He's better than Gordon? lol, no.

Better than Ibaka? Cmon man.

offensively, yes.

The game is a lot more than PPG. I hope you would understand that. Just because Harris can put in 16 PPG does not make him better. Most people project Gordon doing that at least and Ibaka gives you 15 while being a far superior defender. Both of these guys are far better two way players than Harris and that is what teams need in todays switch heavy NBA.

yes i understand, and understanding that, Harris is still a better offensively player than Gordon is right now. And Ibaka is a great rim protector, but by all accounts, not a great defender, so i wouldnt call him a "far superior defender" And Harris was one of the teams best defenders last year until he got traded. gave up points on the offensive end working his tail off on defense. And Gordon isnt a 2-way player, he is still pretty horrid on offense.

[Orlwillbeback]

Harris was not a great player by any means and had limitations, but **** he's better than what we have now lol.

False.

Explain. I understand you hate Harris but I still respect your opinion enough to hear it.

[tiderulz]

I still don't get why people come on here and fight for Harris as a great offensive player.

He was consistent and that is great to have off the bench but where was that second or third gear that make the greats great? Guys like Durant, Curry and TMac do it nightly. Harris didn't have to be that but he never did it. He never looked unguardable. He just took advantage of the opportunity and made simple plays. That doesn't cut it when we move beyond bottom feeder territory and want to compete in the playoffs.

I don't know what we have in AG or Mario yet but both have had jaw dropping moments that have you thinking this kid could become something great.

I NEVER for one single second saw that in Harris.

I applaud him for not crying in the media, but this move screamed of a sit down conversation with Henny where he just wasn't excited about a 6th man role and Henny not excited about starting him over AG or Mario. This was a mutual agreement to part ways. We walked away clean of a big contract and he gets his chance to start with a solid club. He will speak highly of Henny in locker rooms and that will help us in free agency.

The story here is bigger than just not getting a 2nd pick tossed in.

who here has said he was a "great offensive player"?

just heard some people say he is better than some current players already anointed as great players already with nothing to back that up. i havent see anything from Mario or AG that has shown they could become "something great". a single play here or there, but practically every player in the NBA has had that.

I agree that Harris is ideally suited for a 6th man, 14-20 ppg off the bench player. Nothing wrong with that. he is not a player that would be the 1st or 2nd best player or scorer.

and people can understand the bigger story, while also pointing out a miss-step.