Markelle Fultz

[pepe1991]

The Magic are not stuck between a rock and a hard place with their cap sheet at all, but they will be in 1-3 seasons if they start trying to retain everyone on the current roster left and right.

Granted, if they get a contract value they love, they might not be able to pass it up, like Cole at 10 mil per, 4 years total when he blows up a bit 2 years into it. Because that’s just good asset value for trading.

But the FO is definitely on the hot seat. For me, if they retain everyone now, 3 seasons from now.. OR if they do no big trade or big signing before Franz and Banchero’s big/max contracts are both on the sheets.. then I’m decided to want out of this FO and keep watching or visiting my Round 1 Magic less and less. Until the next FO.

(They maybe could hold two maxes with cap and picks flexibility but not sure I’ve seen anyone do it. Banchero and Franz might be on a bare team a couple seasons in the hopes of a big roster acquisition via in any way.)

Execlly this. Cole and Fultz will be expensive to retain.
Franz will sign his designed max next summer, but it won't kick in until 2025-26. Banchero's max will kickstart in 2026-27.

Suggs will be free agent in mean time, and by 2026-27 both current rookies will be playing last year of their rookie contracts.

Most people say "cap will grow". But designed rookie exstensions are tied with cap. So let's say cap for 2024-25 is $142M ( current projection) , Franz first year salary will be $35,5M.
And under same rules ( 25% of salary) Banchero signs one year after, and salary goes to some $152M , his starting salary is $38M. If he does something that would put him into Derrick Rose rule, his starting salary would raise to $46M.


So there you go, in several years, if Cole gets his $18-22M and Fultz his $25-27M , and Franz and Banchero sign their expected contracts, Magic would have $130M tied into 4 players. Add fact both current rookies, Wendell, Suggs and just about any other new rookie isn't counted in. Just 4 players making $130M.


In all that, you also need to seek for roster improvments. This year is yet another "wait and see" year. That's part of front office's MO. Most of years we do nothing.

DLo just signed for $18m per season. I'm not sure why Fultz would get $25m, and Cole would get $18m.

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D Lo took one year contract and is betting on himself to have great year and break a bank.

His second year is player's option.

[pepe1991]

People forget that Fultz got massive current contract based on one season where he couldn't outplay DJ Augustin.
In same year, we resigned on 4 years, guarnateed contract ( and to this date is highest payed player) Jonathan Isaac, despite fact he had 0% chance at playing in contract year ,because his knew blew up couple of months prior.

Only player on "team friendly " contract is Carter. Mostly because he, to this date, only plays 50-55 games a year.

[JoshuaPotter]

People forget that Fultz got massive current contract based on one season where he couldn't outplay DJ Augustin.
In same year, we resigned on 4 years, guarnateed contract ( and to this date is highest payed player) Jonathan Isaac, despite fact he had 0% chance at playing in contract year ,because his knew blew up couple of months prior.

Only player on "team friendly " contract is Carter. Mostly because he, to this date, only plays 50-55 games a year.

Well yes they probably do forget. And also that is part of the reason I am thinking this franchise is going to make a huge mistake going into a contract year with Fultz and extend him for a salary that doesn't fit his output. Ya'know like the one he is already on.

[JoshuaPotter]

They will overpay Fultz and Cole on team friendly short term deals. They did it with Moe and Ingles already. Obviously will be more money and probably an extra year.

Or just don't overpay them at all. Give them a realistic offer. If it insults them and they go play somewhere for less or equal. That is on them.

[VFX]

People forget that Fultz got massive current contract based on one season where he couldn't outplay DJ Augustin.
In same year, we resigned on 4 years, guarnateed contract ( and to this date is highest payed player) Jonathan Isaac, despite fact he had 0% chance at playing in contract year ,because his knew blew up couple of months prior.

Only player on "team friendly " contract is Carter. Mostly because he, to this date, only plays 50-55 games a year.

Well yes they probably do forget. And also that is part of the reason I am thinking this franchise is going to make a huge mistake going into a contract year with Fultz and extend him for a salary that doesn't fit his output. Ya'know like the one he is already on.

None of this would be an issue if this FO had a great track record that wasn’t 90% “let’s wait and see” rather than making decisions.

The next argument will be “they can move players to balance the roster now” after everyone is paid. Yeah, sure.

[basketballRob]

I still can't see the Magic overpaying. We have options to obtain other players if they leave. It would be different if Franz and Paolo were already getting the max and we had no cap space or picks.

I think players like Simons, Brogdon, Heild, Gary Trent, and many more are easily attainable.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Audi]

People forget that Fultz got massive current contract based on one season where he couldn't outplay DJ Augustin.
In same year, we resigned on 4 years, guarnateed contract ( and to this date is highest payed player) Jonathan Isaac, despite fact he had 0% chance at playing in contract year ,because his knew blew up couple of months prior.

Only player on "team friendly " contract is Carter. Mostly because he, to this date, only plays 50-55 games a year.

Well yes they probably do forget. And also that is part of the reason I am thinking this franchise is going to make a huge mistake going into a contract year with Fultz and extend him for a salary that doesn't fit his output. Ya'know like the one he is already on.

None of this would be an issue if this FO had a great track record that wasn’t 90% “let’s wait and see” rather than making decisions.

The next argument will be “they can move players to balance the roster now” after everyone is paid. Yeah, sure.

The knock on the FO's "wait and see" approach has always been that they could be getting better value out of players by trading them earlier in their contracts (ex: Bamba). It's a valid gripe against them, but I don't see what their approach has to do with your concerns for future cap. In this case, considering Fultz still hasn't been extended, shouldn't you be happy with their "let's wait and see" approach?

[Audi]

I still can't see the Magic overpaying. We have options to obtain other players if they leave. It would be different if Franz and Paolo were already getting the max and we had no cap space or picks.

I think players like Simons, Brogdon, Heild, Gary Trent, and many more are easily attainable.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Of course they are. It's just feels like this team has been building organically for so long that nobody thinks other options exist.

[bigdogdylan5]

People forget that Fultz got massive current contract based on one season where he couldn't outplay DJ Augustin.
In same year, we resigned on 4 years, guarnateed contract ( and to this date is highest payed player) Jonathan Isaac, despite fact he had 0% chance at playing in contract year ,because his knew blew up couple of months prior.

Only player on "team friendly " contract is Carter. Mostly because he, to this date, only plays 50-55 games a year.

Well yes they probably do forget. And also that is part of the reason I am thinking this franchise is going to make a huge mistake going into a contract year with Fultz and extend him for a salary that doesn't fit his output. Ya'know like the one he is already on.

None of this would be an issue if this FO had a great track record that wasn’t 90% “let’s wait and see” rather than making decisions.

The next argument will be “they can move players to balance the roster now” after everyone is paid. Yeah, sure.

Do you wish we wait and saw a little more with Oladipo and Tobias Harris? There is no doubt decisions will need to be made after this year. You never want to answer the question of what would you do this off season with specifics you either deflect or move the goal posts. I think it’s totally reasonable to get 1 more year of data with players that are actively ascending every year so the best educated decision can be made. My preference is Cole, Fultz, and Suggs will be more clear after this year and my preference is we make the right choice instead of bringing in some older vet who may only be 2-3 wins better. But I know you’re gonna be like “oh no… the asset” about players you don’t even like. My sole objective is to make sure we make the best educated guess and keep the right ones and with young players the best tactic most of the time is to be patient especially when they are ascending

[Residual-Heat]

Cole= Naz Reid type of contract.
Fultz= Schroder type of contract, anything more than 15 mill/yr for 3 years is too much

Then we can lock up 30+ mill/yr for 2 below average starting PGs. Yay!

[pepe1991]

Cole= Naz Reid type of contract.
Fultz= Schroder type of contract, anything more than 15 mill/yr for 3 years is too much

Then we can lock up 30+ mill/yr for 2 below average starting PGs. Yay!

Schroder orginally turned down 4 years $84M contract.

[VFX]

Well yes they probably do forget. And also that is part of the reason I am thinking this franchise is going to make a huge mistake going into a contract year with Fultz and extend him for a salary that doesn't fit his output. Ya'know like the one he is already on.

None of this would be an issue if this FO had a great track record that wasn’t 90% “let’s wait and see” rather than making decisions.

The next argument will be “they can move players to balance the roster now” after everyone is paid. Yeah, sure.

But I know you’re gonna be like “oh no… the asset” about players you don’t even like. My sole objective is to make sure we make the best educated guess and keep the right ones and with young players the best tactic most of the time is to be patient especially when they are ascending

What does me “liking” a player have to do with how front office’s operate?

The Orlando Magic are not going to NOT resign their starting point guard for 2023-24 season. This idea that we can’t have the discussion because “iT hAsN’t hApPeNeD yEt” is disingenuous.

You need another full season of data to know what Fultz does and doesn’t do in a year 7 contract year, of being in the league, after playing out his 3-yr $50m extension? Your “preference” is to wait until after Cole and Fultz are paid for them to make decisions? Yeah, that’s settling too late on a supporting cast if you know for an absolute fact Paolo and Franz are getting maxed out. Y’know, when money actually matters and your two highest paid players aren’t injury riddled bench warmers or redemption projects…

Go look at the stats best 2-man combinations of players last season in lineups. (Hint: Paolo and Fultz played the most minutes together 1608:33 total and it wasn’t pretty). Why would you potentially advocate for paying your third highest paid player and option, your point guard, good money to not work exceptionally well with your cornerstone max salary #1 option?

Like… people do understand that not every organization gives Elfrid Payton levels of chances, contracts, and opportunities before they can make assessments… this is obviously a small market Orlando problem I guess that fans have just accepted as reality with guys that are absolutely not on rookie deals.

[bigdogdylan5]

None of this would be an issue if this FO had a great track record that wasn’t 90% “let’s wait and see” rather than making decisions.

The next argument will be “they can move players to balance the roster now” after everyone is paid. Yeah, sure.

But I know you’re gonna be like “oh no… the asset” about players you don’t even like. My sole objective is to make sure we make the best educated guess and keep the right ones and with young players the best tactic most of the time is to be patient especially when they are ascending

What does me “liking” a player have to do with how front office’s operate?

The Orlando Magic are not going to NOT resign their starting point guard for 2023-24 season. This idea that we can’t have the discussion because “iT hAsN’t hApPeNeD yEt” is disingenuous.

You need another full season of data to know what Fultz does and doesn’t do in year 7, of being in the league, after playing out his 3-yr $50m extension? Your “preference” is to wait until after Cole and Fultz are paid for them to make decisions? Yeah, that’s settling too late on a supporting cast if you know for an absolute fact Paolo and Franz are getting maxed out.

Go look at the stats best 2-man combinations of players last season in lineups. (Hint: Paolo and Fultz played the most minutes together 1608:33 total and it wasn’t pretty). Why would you potentially advocate for paying potentially your third highest paid player and option, your point guard, good money to not work exceptionally well with your cornerstone max salary #1 option?

Like… people do understand that not every organization gives Elfrid Payton levels of chances, contracts, and opportunities before they can make assessments… this is obviously a small market Orlando problem I guess that fans have just accepted.

By liking I meant you don’t think they’re good so then they shouldn’t have value? Also I didn’t say I wanted to sign them first.

I will ask again what would you have done different? Who would you have traded for?

I think we should pay one of them whoever wants the most team friendly deal. You will need it to trade for that star guard to match salaries. Another problem in your logic is assuming you don’t want to trade Franz or Paolo who will be your salary matching for a star guard when he comes available?

Also: I really can’t help you if you think Elfrid and Fultz are the same player. Elfrid couldn’t run the offense like Fultz, he isn’t even as good as a defender as Fultz as he got worse every year. Maybe the shooting is comparable but at least at one point Fultz showed he could shoot before injury. Payton never could.

[VFX]

But I know you’re gonna be like “oh no… the asset” about players you don’t even like. My sole objective is to make sure we make the best educated guess and keep the right ones and with young players the best tactic most of the time is to be patient especially when they are ascending

What does me “liking” a player have to do with how front office’s operate?

The Orlando Magic are not going to NOT resign their starting point guard for 2023-24 season. This idea that we can’t have the discussion because “iT hAsN’t hApPeNeD yEt” is disingenuous.

You need another full season of data to know what Fultz does and doesn’t do in year 7, of being in the league, after playing out his 3-yr $50m extension? Your “preference” is to wait until after Cole and Fultz are paid for them to make decisions? Yeah, that’s settling too late on a supporting cast if you know for an absolute fact Paolo and Franz are getting maxed out.

Go look at the stats best 2-man combinations of players last season in lineups. (Hint: Paolo and Fultz played the most minutes together 1608:33 total and it wasn’t pretty). Why would you potentially advocate for paying potentially your third highest paid player and option, your point guard, good money to not work exceptionally well with your cornerstone max salary #1 option?

Like… people do understand that not every organization gives Elfrid Payton levels of chances, contracts, and opportunities before they can make assessments… this is obviously a small market Orlando problem I guess that fans have just accepted.

By liking I meant you don’t think they’re good so then they shouldn’t have value? Also I didn’t say I wanted to sign them first.

I will ask again what would you have done different? Who would you have traded for?

I think we should pay one of them whoever wants the most team friendly deal. You will need it to trade for that star guard to match salaries. Another problem in your logic is assuming you don’t want to trade Franz or Paolo who will be your salary matching for a star guard when he comes available?

Also: I really can’t help you if you think Elfrid and Fultz are the same player. Elfrid couldn’t run the offense like Fultz, he isn’t even as good as a defender as Fultz as he got worse every year. Maybe the shooting is comparable but at least at one point Fultz showed he could shoot before injury. Payton never could.

I never said they were the same.

I’m saying that Fultz needs 2 non-rookie contract extensions for people to be in or out on him much like everyone was with Elfrid except for the fact he was making far less money at far less of a critical role in his timeframe.

If you like Fultz, then that’s fine. I’m not going to convince anyone otherwise or even try. My argument has always been about the money, skillset, and fit relative to Orlando’s timeframe. I wouldn’t be having this conversation if I’m using your examples of Oladipo or Elfrid on rookie deals. We aren’t talking about that with “wait and see”.

[bigdogdylan5]

What does me “liking” a player have to do with how front office’s operate?

The Orlando Magic are not going to NOT resign their starting point guard for 2023-24 season. This idea that we can’t have the discussion because “iT hAsN’t hApPeNeD yEt” is disingenuous.

You need another full season of data to know what Fultz does and doesn’t do in year 7, of being in the league, after playing out his 3-yr $50m extension? Your “preference” is to wait until after Cole and Fultz are paid for them to make decisions? Yeah, that’s settling too late on a supporting cast if you know for an absolute fact Paolo and Franz are getting maxed out.

Go look at the stats best 2-man combinations of players last season in lineups. (Hint: Paolo and Fultz played the most minutes together 1608:33 total and it wasn’t pretty). Why would you potentially advocate for paying potentially your third highest paid player and option, your point guard, good money to not work exceptionally well with your cornerstone max salary #1 option?

Like… people do understand that not every organization gives Elfrid Payton levels of chances, contracts, and opportunities before they can make assessments… this is obviously a small market Orlando problem I guess that fans have just accepted.

By liking I meant you don’t think they’re good so then they shouldn’t have value? Also I didn’t say I wanted to sign them first.

I will ask again what would you have done different? Who would you have traded for?

I think we should pay one of them whoever wants the most team friendly deal. You will need it to trade for that star guard to match salaries. Another problem in your logic is assuming you don’t want to trade Franz or Paolo who will be your salary matching for a star guard when he comes available?

Also: I really can’t help you if you think Elfrid and Fultz are the same player. Elfrid couldn’t run the offense like Fultz, he isn’t even as good as a defender as Fultz as he got worse every year. Maybe the shooting is comparable but at least at one point Fultz showed he could shoot before injury. Payton never could.

I never said they were the same.

I’m saying that Fultz needs 2 non-rookie contract extensions for people to be in or out on him much like everyone was with Elfrid except for the fact he was making far less money at far less of a critical role in his timeframe.

If you like Fultz, then that’s fine. I’m not going to convince anyone otherwise or even try. My argument has always been about the money, skillset, and fit relative to Orlando’s timeframe. I wouldn’t be having this conversation if I’m using your examples of Oladipo or Elfrid on rookie deals. We aren’t talking about that with “wait and see”.

Did I miss a contract extension announcement? Lol it all comes full circle with you and you never answered my question. What would you do?

It’s not that I am in love with Fultz I just would rather him than current options. I would agree that right now he os not a seemless fit with Paolo. But if Paolo and Franz are the “stars” I think they should have some responsibility to get better and make the fit easier. I think if we sign Cole or Fultz to a 20-25 million dollar deal I think they can hold that value pretty well especially if we decrease it every year. So when a Luka, Halliburton, another star, or just a better fitting point guard comes around it’s a matching salary that is not a bad contract. This is the point Ben was trying to make… Paying them appropriately doesn’t mean we are locked into them the new NBA is about trades more then cap space.

[Audi]

Go look at the stats best 2-man combinations of players last season in lineups. (Hint: Paolo and Fultz played the most minutes together 1608:33 total and it wasn’t pretty). Why would you potentially advocate for paying potentially your third highest paid player and option, your point guard, good money to not work exceptionally well with your cornerstone max salary #1 option?

I don't expect any player to work exceptionally well with a rookie.

In fact, every two man lineup of significance involving Paolo had a negative net rating with the exception of with Franz (0.0) and I can guarantee it wasn't Paolo bouying that. Hell, the Cole/Paolo two man lineup was worse than Fultz/Paolo, and you've been advocating that we start Cole! Interesting.

[JoshuaPotter]

Go look at the stats best 2-man combinations of players last season in lineups. (Hint: Paolo and Fultz played the most minutes together 1608:33 total and it wasn’t pretty). Why would you potentially advocate for paying potentially your third highest paid player and option, your point guard, good money to not work exceptionally well with your cornerstone max salary #1 option?

I don't expect any player to work exceptionally well with a rookie.

In fact, every two man lineup of significance involving Paolo had a negative net rating with the exception of with Franz (0.0) and I can guarantee it wasn't Paolo bouying that. Hell, the Cole/Paolo two man lineup was worse than Fultz/Paolo, and you've been advocating that we start Cole! Interesting.

To be fair. On paper I like Cole more then Fultz in terms of fit if I had to make a point guard of the future choice today.

Neither though is an overall net improvement though. Although a lineup with Cole / Suggs / WCJ / Paulo / Franz is interesting.

Both Cole and Fultz are in the contract year and not a single actual game has played yet. I am not saying wait and see. I am saying that at this point.

Suggs is our best guard. It isn't even close.

[Knightro]

You are legit lying to yourself if you think the Magic aren't going to let this year's team success dictate their personnel decisions this upcoming summer.

If the Magic go .500 or better, Markelle Fultz will get a long-term contract from the Magic this summer no matter how much or how little improvement he shows as an individual this season.

The Magic are simply not going to let their starting point guard walk away for nothing and replace him with somebody cheaper. It will not happen.

[Residual-Heat]

Cole= Naz Reid type of contract.
Fultz= Schroder type of contract, anything more than 15 mill/yr for 3 years is too much

Then we can lock up 30+ mill/yr for 2 below average starting PGs. Yay!

Schroder orginally turned down 4 years $84M contract.

he was dumb to turn that down. Market conditions changed, and he ended up signing a 2 year 26 mill contract. Thats with him playing really well in the WC too. In this market Fultz is not worth more than 15 mill/yr.

[bigdogdylan5]

You are legit lying to yourself if you think the Magic aren't going to let this year's team success dictate their personnel decisions this upcoming summer.

If the Magic go .500 or better, Markelle Fultz will get a long-term contract from the Magic this summer no matter how much or how little improvement he shows as an individual this season.

The Magic are simply not going to let their starting point guard walk away for nothing and replace him with somebody cheaper. It will not happen.

Ok but what if he is a big part of the reason we go better than 500. Do you honestly believe we can get to 41 wins without a huge jump from one of the guards? Fultz being the top of the list but maybe Anthony blows up and sub plants him.