2016 Official Speculation Thread: Episode V - The Preseason Strikes Back

[tiderulz]

The game is a lot more than PPG. I hope you would understand that. Just because Harris can put in 16 PPG does not make him better. Most people project Gordon doing that at least and Ibaka gives you 15 while being a far superior defender. Both of these guys are far better two way players than Harris and that is what teams need in todays switch heavy NBA.

yes i understand, and understanding that, Harris is still a better offensively player than Gordon is right now. And Ibaka is a great rim protector, but by all accounts, not a great defender, so i wouldnt call him a "far superior defender" And Harris was one of the teams best defenders last year until he got traded. gave up points on the offensive end working his tail off on defense. And Gordon isnt a 2-way player, he is still pretty horrid on offense.

Again, Harris is not a better PLAYER than Gordon. He is just better offensively, but that could change by this season. Harris not a two way player. Gordon projects to be one. If you do not believe in Gordon's potential on offense, you will probably not want to follow this team.

Ibaka is indeed a far superior defender than Harris. I'm not even sure how that is a debate. Harris can not defend the 3 or the 4 better than Ibaka. Ibaka is a better player in general than Harris and I doubt you will find many people who would argue that.

not seeing where i said that Harris was a better overall player, I have said numerous times, "offensively." So you can keep saying Gordon is a better "PLAYER" and it just means that he is better defensively. And ive been following this team since i lived in Orlando in the early 90's, i'll follow them if i want to. Gordon is never going to be an offensive dynamo in my opinion. He needs to model his game after Shawn Marion.

And yes, Harris can defend the 3 much better than Ibaka.

[Orlwillbeback]

And for the record, I know Ibaka is a better pf than Harris, I was more specifically comparing Harris to our other small forwards.

[zelenooq]

I am a bit disillusioned when it comes to Hezonja's potential. The guy was almost 3 full years older than the other wings we could have taken in that draft like Winslow and Stanley Johnson and still statistically wasn't any better. He was billed as being more NBA ready than the other wings due to his professional playing experience and being older but the guy got his pocket picked more than I've ever seen for a rookie wing.

In general I thought he looked soft compared to the other guys.

Hezonja is 1y and 1month older than winslow and 1y and 3months than johnson
That's enough to not read the rest of your post -.-

[tiderulz]

Today is the first preseason game and we're still talking about Harris? Why?

The tank process has been hard on many here. They have lost their ability this think rationally about basketball and instead are emotionally tied to even to most average of talents.

It will take time, but as we move into more successful years people will recover from this disease and learn to appreciate true talent while not accepting any less.

love how if people dont agree with someone, they arent "thinking rationally"

[tiderulz]

Still disagree with trading Tobias Harris at the deadline, but it's lunacy to assert that Harris is a better player than Serge Ibaka. It's even more short-sighted to not acknowledge that it's more advantageous to give those minutes to Gordon, who has a much higher upside.

havent heard anyone say that Harris is a better player than Ibaka. Interesting how people pull these statements out when nobody says them

[tiderulz]

Again, Harris is not a better PLAYER than Gordon. He is just better offensively, but that could change by this season. Harris not a two way player. Gordon projects to be one. If you do not believe in Gordon's potential on offense, you will probably not want to follow this team.

Ibaka is indeed a far superior defender than Harris. I'm not even sure how that is a debate. Harris can not defend the 3 or the 4 better than Ibaka. Ibaka is a better player in general than Harris and I doubt you will find many people who would argue that.

I still say it is foolish to claim Harris is better offensively than AG or Mario. Harris is more refined and more consistent than them right now but each show a gear he will never possess. If either of them put it together consistently we will all laugh at ever making such rediculous comparisons.

I agree. I am just trying to humor people without being rude. It's insane to asses that Harris is better than Gordon, but that is where we are, because people want to complain about things they do not understand (future cap space being one).

its also insane that you keep trying to attribute to me the statement that "HArris is a better player than Gordon" when every time i say it, i say that Harris is better offensively than Gordon. Right now, that is undeniably true. Is it true by the end of the year? we will see.

[PennytoShaq]

Still disagree with trading Tobias Harris at the deadline, but it's lunacy to assert that Harris is a better player than Serge Ibaka. It's even more short-sighted to not acknowledge that it's more advantageous to give those minutes to Gordon, who has a much higher upside.

Exactly. That is all I am saying.

You are a delusional **** who has no idea how the NBA works. A team should avoid a rebuild at any cost because it hurts the team's image and makes less revenue. The team also risks the possibility of becoming a free rider to the revenue sharing for the other teams in the league if it cannot support itself, which concerns Silver and the governing members.

I have been to a number of games the last few years and have heard the same messianic message from Hennigan filled with fluff and buzzwords like a "Slow, Organic process of growth within", only to ship off the young players he acquired for veterans with expiring contracts.

We have all been duped and the fact that we are in year 5 of the rebuild and still talking about "potential" is proof of that.

Oh you have been reduced to personal insults now? That was easy. The funny thing is you tell me in your first sentence that I don't know how the NBA works and then proceed to showing in your next sentences that you are actually the one guilty of that transgression. Thanks for that entertainment.

[MagicFan101]

Today is the first preseason game and we're still talking about Harris? Why?

The tank process has been hard on many here. They have lost their ability this think rationally about basketball and instead are emotionally tied to even to most average of talents.

It will take time, but as we move into more successful years people will recover from this disease and learn to appreciate true talent while not accepting any less.

love how if people dont agree with someone, they arent "thinking rationally"

It isn't if they don't agree with someone in general. It is if they don't appreciate the facts I bestow upon them through my grace.

[PennytoShaq]

I still say it is foolish to claim Harris is better offensively than AG or Mario. Harris is more refined and more consistent than them right now but each show a gear he will never possess. If either of them put it together consistently we will all laugh at ever making such rediculous comparisons.

I agree. I am just trying to humor people without being rude. It's insane to asses that Harris is better than Gordon, but that is where we are, because people want to complain about things they do not understand (future cap space being one).

its also insane that you keep trying to attribute to me the statement that "HArris is a better player than Gordon" when every time i say it, i say that Harris is better offensively than Gordon. Right now, that is undeniably true. Is it true by the end of the year? we will see.

I don't what you are debating me for if you share that viewpoint. It is exactly in line with what I just said. The Magic believe that Gordon projects to be a two way player who will be better overall than Harris at both defense and offense. That is what I am saying.

[tiderulz]

The tank process has been hard on many here. They have lost their ability this think rationally about basketball and instead are emotionally tied to even to most average of talents.

It will take time, but as we move into more successful years people will recover from this disease and learn to appreciate true talent while not accepting any less.

love how if people dont agree with someone, they arent "thinking rationally"

It isn't if they don't agree with someone in general. It is if they don't appreciate the facts I bestow upon them through my grace.

more often than not in this thread in general, people project their opinions and treat them as fact.

[OrlandO]

Oladipo about to play on nbatv. Sabonis is starting.

[tiderulz]

I agree. I am just trying to humor people without being rude. It's insane to asses that Harris is better than Gordon, but that is where we are, because people want to complain about things they do not understand (future cap space being one).

its also insane that you keep trying to attribute to me the statement that "HArris is a better player than Gordon" when every time i say it, i say that Harris is better offensively than Gordon. Right now, that is undeniably true. Is it true by the end of the year? we will see.

I don't what you are debating me for if you share that viewpoint. It is exactly in line with what I just said. The Magic believe that Gordon projects to be a two way player who will be better overall than Harris at both defense and offense. That is what I am saying.

you were the one that quoted me back when i said that right now Harris was better offensively.

Harris was not a great player by any means and had limitations, but **** he's better than what we have now lol.

This makes absolutely no sense and is not even true.

He's better than Gordon? lol, no.

Better than Ibaka? Cmon man.

offensively, yes.

and you kept arguing that Gordon is the better overall player, which was different than what i said. As a starter, Gordon put up 11/8, Harris has put up consistent 16/7 with a higher TS.

[PennytoShaq]

love how if people dont agree with someone, they arent "thinking rationally"

It isn't if they don't agree with someone in general. It is if they don't appreciate the facts I bestow upon them through my grace.

more often than not in this thread in general, people project their opinions and treat them as fact.

I think it is safe to say that a fact is that Orlando went after young players and picked the best ones to build around. They gave them time to analyze who they thought could become a star or key starter and traded the rest. They knew from using things like basic mathematics that they could only commit to a core of young guys since young talent costs money after their rookie deal expires.

So when people (not you per say) complain that we traded young talent in Harris or Victor, it amuses me and shows they don;t really understand what they are talking about. Simply because if you take the time to crunch the numbers it's pretty easy to see that we can't keep all these guys and that was never the plan to begin with anyway. A young core is usually 3-4 players at the most.

[PennytoShaq]

its also insane that you keep trying to attribute to me the statement that "HArris is a better player than Gordon" when every time i say it, i say that Harris is better offensively than Gordon. Right now, that is undeniably true. Is it true by the end of the year? we will see.

I don't what you are debating me for if you share that viewpoint. It is exactly in line with what I just said. The Magic believe that Gordon projects to be a two way player who will be better overall than Harris at both defense and offense. That is what I am saying.

you were the one that quoted me back when i said that right now Harris was better offensively.

This makes absolutely no sense and is not even true.

He's better than Gordon? lol, no.

Better than Ibaka? Cmon man.

offensively, yes.

and you kept arguing that Gordon is the better overall player, which was different than what i said. As a starter, Gordon put up 11/8, Harris has put up consistent 16/7 with a higher TS.

And yet Gordon is still the player on this roster and was not traded while Harris was. They both play the same position. What does that tell you?

[Orlwillbeback]

I feel Gordon's advanced stats were good last year because hecwas playing power forwards. If he's really going to be playing sf the whole time, I just don't think he has the perimeter skills to be an effective 3 man right now.

That's why i wanted us to play Gordon-Ibaka-Mario at center and forward spots but I think once we acquired Ibaka and sat down with him, he likely said he doesn't want to play much center this year to avoid getting injured in a contract year and miss the big pay day. Thus, that necessitated getting Biyombo as a hedge if he left.

[PennytoShaq]

That would make some sense but Biz even just stated in an interview that Orlando tried to trade for him last season.

[Orlwillbeback]

It isn't if they don't agree with someone in general. It is if they don't appreciate the facts I bestow upon them through my grace.

[PrimeThyme]

Oladipo about to play on nbatv. Sabonis is starting.

He's looked pretty good so far. Still playing some hero ball but has taken some good shots overall. Him and Westbrook should be exciting to watch this season

[Orlwillbeback]

I've yet to hear PennytoShaq make a real argument on here rather than just Insult everyone else who makes theirs and call them idiots.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Looks like he's been given some freedom to be a bit of a PG in practice too.

Where did you get that from?

The video i just posted would certainly seem to back that up. Some nice play on the break from Mario

Not really. Mario certainly didn't look like a pg in the half court set and the other play was just a result of guys running hard and the other team not getting back fast enough. Did you read something about Mario being used as pg in some lineups or were you just going by the practice video?