Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[T-Cat]

We will definitely be a terrible team unless we somehow draft a rookie who becomes a difference maker on offence from Day 1, which is extremely unlikely with our picks. The roster is just really bad for winning now, the few remaining vets aren't that good, Isaac and Fultz will need time to get in top game shape, and we will be playing a lot of rookies and sophomores big minutes, which in the NBA usually means a lot of losses. Plus the management would probably want to tank again.

I guess no one has any faith in this guy making a huge leap next season:

[jezzerinho]

Sadly, with Mo, the off-court work doesn't show up often enough on-court.

[GelbeWand09]

Are you a Raps fan?

If that happens, we should be very halpy in getting Suggs plus #8. Suggs also has superstar potential but with a different skillset than Green. We lack that so no need to be picky on.what kind of superstar we will get.

I do not have Suggs on my top-4 to begin with. AND I feel like Green could transform this roster. I would hope the Magic can obtain Green's rights. If Suggs is drafted, then this rebuild will be slow, slow, slow (and painful). Orlando will suck until at least 2023/24, for example.

I am not arguing against Suggs per se, as it might be good to be patient and wait to 2023/24, but if he is drafted, the roster will need much more redevelopment.


..

Just curious why you think that. Isnt it more important for a young team to have a PG leader to be succesfull? I mean Green probably wont do anything but score on low efficiency his first 1-2 years. Just look at Edwards. Despite his points, he was a clear negative on the court. Suggs got hopefully the ability to make his teammates better, while being a scoring threat too, which probably leads to more wins early into the rebuild than a pure scorer learning to score in the NBA.
I think Green got a higher ceiling, but just wonder why you think Suggs gonna have less positive impact early on than Green.

[tiderulz]

We will definitely be a terrible team unless we somehow draft a rookie who becomes a difference maker on offence from Day 1, which is extremely unlikely with our picks. The roster is just really bad for winning now, the few remaining vets aren't that good, Isaac and Fultz will need time to get in top game shape, and we will be playing a lot of rookies and sophomores big minutes, which in the NBA usually means a lot of losses. Plus the management would probably want to tank again.

why exactly?

Mitchell was a 13th pick
Devin Booker was 13th pick
PG was a 13th pick
Kawhi was a 15th pick
Jamal Murray was 7th pick, Jokic was 41st pick
SGA was 11th pick
Giannis was 15th pick
Curry was a 7th pick, Klay was 11th pick
Jimmy Butler was the 30th pick


all difference makers that were 7th pick or worse. So you can get someone with our picks, you dont have to have the #1 pick. Yes, it makes the odds better if you are choosing #1 but you its not a requirement.

[drsd]

Just curious why you think that. Isnt it more important for a young team to have a PG leader to be succesfull? I mean Green probably wont do anything but score on low efficiency his first 1-2 years. Just look at Edwards. Despite his points, he was a clear negative on the court. Suggs got hopefully the ability to make his teammates better, while being a scoring threat too, which probably leads to more wins early into the rebuild than a pure scorer learning to score in the NBA.
I think Green got a higher ceiling, but just wonder why you think Suggs gonna have less positive impact early on than Green.

I project Fultz to be the PG starter from the ASW and onward. So to answer your question, yes Orlando wants Fultz to be successful, and the team can only progress as he progresses.

Now if you envisage Suggs as the future at PG, fine. But that means trading Fultz now. In that scenario, Orlando will not be a playoff team until at least 2023/24.


..

[j-ragg]

I don’t really see any teams trading for Fultz at his salary until he comes back and plays better than he did before he got hurt.

[bigdogdylan5]

I just want good team players, and a legitimate franchise leader to emerge from that.

I’m tired of waiting on Isaac and Fultz because they feel like a Hail Mary play to gain inches from a QB who’s been driven back to their own goal line. They’re just too far behind the curve and their bodies are unreliable.

If you take them out then the youth core we currently have is Bamba, WCJ, Okeke, RJ and Cole. None are ‘bad’ players, but none have shown much reason to invest a lot of hope in yet, and two are due to get paid.

We really need this draft to lay the groundwork of an identity. Either a scorer, or someone who can bring the others together. Ideally both. And we have the chance to do both with the 5 and 8 picks, so the hope for the future, near and far, can still burn brightly.

In regard to Isaac and Fultz I don’t think they are Hail Marys if and it’s a huge if, they can stay healthy I really think they can make a jump considering they are both still under the age of 25. I know we want that guy who is a superstar by 20-21 like luka or trae but that doesn’t have to be thr path. But again all our eggs aren’t in that basket. You have 5 other players currently on the roster as possible lottery tickets to make the super star jump. That is not including the two chances from this draft and the top pick we will have next year. We are going to be bad next year I am not saying we are going to be good but just exciting

[Bergmaniac]

We will definitely be a terrible team unless we somehow draft a rookie who becomes a difference maker on offence from Day 1, which is extremely unlikely with our picks. The roster is just really bad for winning now, the few remaining vets aren't that good, Isaac and Fultz will need time to get in top game shape, and we will be playing a lot of rookies and sophomores big minutes, which in the NBA usually means a lot of losses. Plus the management would probably want to tank again.

why exactly?

Mitchell was a 13th pick
Devin Booker was 13th pick
PG was a 13th pick
Kawhi was a 15th pick
Jamal Murray was 7th pick, Jokic was 41st pick
SGA was 11th pick
Giannis was 15th pick
Curry was a 7th pick, Klay was 11th pick
Jimmy Butler was the 30th pick


all difference makers that were 7th pick or worse. So you can get someone with our picks, you dont have to have the #1 pick. Yes, it makes the odds better if you are choosing #1 but you its not a requirement.

I said it's extremely unlikely, not that it's impossible. You have listed 10 examples from the last 12 years, out of hundreds of picks in that range, and even some of these weren't difference makers in their first season.

[orlando_joe]

Just curious why you think that. Isnt it more important for a young team to have a PG leader to be succesfull? I mean Green probably wont do anything but score on low efficiency his first 1-2 years. Just look at Edwards. Despite his points, he was a clear negative on the court. Suggs got hopefully the ability to make his teammates better, while being a scoring threat too, which probably leads to more wins early into the rebuild than a pure scorer learning to score in the NBA.
I think Green got a higher ceiling, but just wonder why you think Suggs gonna have less positive impact early on than Green.

I project Fultz to be the PG starter from the ASW and onward. So to answer your question, yes Orlando wants Fultz to be successful, and the team can only progress as he progresses.

Now if you envisage Suggs as the future at PG, fine. But that means trading Fultz now. In that scenario, Orlando will not be a playoff team until at least 2023/24.


..

yea summer before could end up with 2 more lottery picks magic and bulls again 23-24 season could look great

[tiderulz]

We will definitely be a terrible team unless we somehow draft a rookie who becomes a difference maker on offence from Day 1, which is extremely unlikely with our picks. The roster is just really bad for winning now, the few remaining vets aren't that good, Isaac and Fultz will need time to get in top game shape, and we will be playing a lot of rookies and sophomores big minutes, which in the NBA usually means a lot of losses. Plus the management would probably want to tank again.

why exactly?

Mitchell was a 13th pick
Devin Booker was 13th pick
PG was a 13th pick
Kawhi was a 15th pick
Jamal Murray was 7th pick, Jokic was 41st pick
SGA was 11th pick
Giannis was 15th pick
Curry was a 7th pick, Klay was 11th pick
Jimmy Butler was the 30th pick


all difference makers that were 7th pick or worse. So you can get someone with our picks, you dont have to have the #1 pick. Yes, it makes the odds better if you are choosing #1 but you its not a requirement.

I said it's extremely unlikely, not that it's impossible. You have listed 10 examples from the last 12 years, out of hundreds of picks in that range, and even some of these weren't difference makers in their first season.

you can put it that way. you can also say, 9 different teams (almost 1/3 the league) drafted a difference maker with a pick 7th or worse. and i personally wouldnt expect whoever we draft to be a difference maker in their first season

[Xatticus]

Sadly, with Mo, the off-court work doesn't show up often enough on-court.

Yeah... because Steve Clifford loved him some Khem Birch and it's really difficult to make plays from the bench.

[VFX]

Sadly, with Mo, the off-court work doesn't show up often enough on-court.

Yeah... because Steve Clifford loved him some Khem Birch and it's really difficult to make plays from the bench.

I’m actually pretty interested to see what becomes of Mo under a new coach.

[RookieStar]

Sadly, with Mo, the off-court work doesn't show up often enough on-court.

Yeah... because Steve Clifford loved him some Khem Birch and it's really difficult to make plays from the bench.

I’m actually pretty interested to see what becomes of Mo under a new coach.

Same.. if we still see the same thing like no effort, low motor and whatnot..we really have to admit coach Cliff was right all along.

[SOUL]

To be fair, Bamba did easily outplay WCJ the last month, and they both have been in the NBA the same amount of time. It's because he's new here that WCJ is getting more leeway but this is also the first time Bamba has gotten consistent big minutes.

I'm sure it's a mix of that freedom + teams winding down/not playing as hard, but Bamba did show some things out there even if he does still make a lot of mistakes.

[Xatticus]

To be fair, Bamba did easily outplay WCJ the last month, and they both have been in the NBA the same amount of time. It's because he's new here that WCJ is getting more leeway but this is also the first time Bamba has gotten consistent big minutes.

I'm sure it's a mix of that freedom + teams winding down/not playing as hard, but Bamba did show some things out there even if he does still make a lot of mistakes.

The crap about him being lazy just irritates me. Some of the best defensive centers in the history of the NBA have been rather immobile. You have to make allowances for legit 7-footers when you are evaluating their athleticism and effort.

I see a guy that is slow on his reads at times and that doesn’t always have good habits or an appreciation for imminent threats. He also gets moved about rather easily by physical bigs. Nevertheless, he posts exceptional rebound and block rates. He averaged 18, 13, and 3 per 36 minutes. That’s not necessarily indicative of impact, but it is certainly indicative of effort. For a guy that is “lazy”, he sure does fill up a box score.

His development has stagnated because he has been parked in Clifford’s doghouse. I was as critical as anyone about his struggles in his rookie year, but we are talking about dumping a potentially high-value asset because we had a curmudgeon at the helm that doesn’t abide mistakes of inexperience. I will never indict a player for not getting floor time. Coaches do stupid things for stupid reasons sometimes.

I watched a game with my brother late this past season when he was finally getting some run and he was absolutely beasting. I don’t recall which game it was. I saw obvious signs of improvement on some pretty basic stuff down the stretch. I have no doubts that he would be substantially further along in his development if we didn’t have such a myopic mind coaching the team. I don’t know if Bamba will ever pay off on the draft capital we invested when we picked him, but I’d be damn certain that he isn’t going to work out before moving on from him given this franchise’s current predicament.

[Bensational]

In regard to Isaac and Fultz I don’t think they are Hail Marys if and it’s a huge if, they can stay healthy I really think they can make a jump considering they are both still under the age of 25. I know we want that guy who is a superstar by 20-21 like luka or trae but that doesn’t have to be thr path. But again all our eggs aren’t in that basket. You have 5 other players currently on the roster as possible lottery tickets to make the super star jump. That is not including the two chances from this draft and the top pick we will have next year. We are going to be bad next year I am not saying we are going to be good but just exciting

For me the risk is more about durability than their potential ceilings. The both of them need to show they can stay healthy for a prolonged period of time, and I think that will be a bigger mental hurdle for them than people realise. It’s going to change their games and approach on the court, and they’re going to have a lot of mental reluctance to push things.

I’ve completely ruled out star potential for either until they can demonstrate healthy, durable bodies which they’re prepared to push. Once they pass that test, then they need to demonstrate all the skill they need to catch up on the become average-above average offensive players.

The sum of all those pieces just makes me prefer to take a gamble on someone who doesn’t bring all those question marks with them. Doesn’t need to be a shiny new draft prospect, just somebody who can stay on the court. Maybe someone like Bamba who fell into another coach’s doghouse (NAW?).

[The Real Dalic]

Yeah... because Steve Clifford loved him some Khem Birch and it's really difficult to make plays from the bench.

I’m actually pretty interested to see what becomes of Mo under a new coach.

Same.. if we still see the same thing like no effort, low motor and whatnot..we really have to admit coach Cliff was right all along.

Nope. The people here will keep giving him excuses and scapegoat the next coach.

[VFX]

To be fair, Bamba did easily outplay WCJ the last month, and they both have been in the NBA the same amount of time. It's because he's new here that WCJ is getting more leeway but this is also the first time Bamba has gotten consistent big minutes.

I'm sure it's a mix of that freedom + teams winding down/not playing as hard, but Bamba did show some things out there even if he does still make a lot of mistakes.

The crap about him being lazy just irritates me. Some of the best defensive centers in the history of the NBA have been rather immobile. You have to make allowances for legit 7-footers when you are evaluating their athleticism and effort.

I see a guy that is slow on his reads at times and that doesn’t always have good habits or an appreciation for imminent threats. He also gets moved about rather easily by physical bigs. Nevertheless, he posts exceptional rebound and block rates. He averaged 18, 13, and 3 per 36 minutes. That’s not necessarily indicative of impact, but it is certainly indicative of effort. For a guy that is “lazy”, he sure does fill up a box score.

His development has stagnated because he has been parked in Clifford’s doghouse. I was as critical as anyone about his struggles in his rookie year, but we are talking about dumping a potentially high-value asset because we had a curmudgeon at the helm that doesn’t abide mistakes of inexperience. I will never indict a player for not getting floor time. Coaches do stupid things for stupid reasons sometimes.

I watched a game with my brother late this past season when he was finally getting some run and he was absolutely beasting. I don’t recall which game it was. I saw obvious signs of improvement on some pretty basic stuff down the stretch. I have no doubts that he would be substantially further along in his development if we didn’t have such a myopic mind coaching the team. I don’t know if Bamba will ever pay off on the draft capital we invested when we picked him, but I’d be damn certain that he isn’t going to work out before moving on from him given this franchise’s current predicament.

That’s what I think with Bamba.

He’s not ideal if you are trying to win games immediately and expect players to make zero mistakes. He needs to get more playing time and experience to stay out of foul trouble.

Getting a coach like Atkinson would be huge for him. Hearing someone like Jarrett Allen outright say that Kenny helped him develop through mistakes could do wonders for Bamba. Between WCJr and Bamba I think we’re set at the C position. They potentially do exactly what you expect a Center to do.

[BadMofoPimp]

GOOOOO LIGHTNING!!!!!!!!!!

[pepe1991]

It will be hilarious watch Bamba struggle once again and no excuse in sight this time around.
I remember posters blaming Vogle for Hezonja failures. And Gordon "stunned development" due "too many coaching changes".

Mo Bamba struggles because he isn't good at basketball.
Mo Bamba being "lazy" goes far beyond Orlando back to college.

He never was in good basketball shape and that's on him and people around him.
He never developed any basketball skills beyond being long and being able to dunk . That's on him.
He views himself as "streach 5" but isn't even good shooter. That's on him.

During interview in 2018 he said during playoffs that most bigs can't play exstended min because they can't shoot. That's his mindset. He thinks he offers most on the floor when he is pick&pop big. Witch is factually false since he is career 6,4 ppg , 32,5% for 3, 54% TS player. Low usage,low quality offense is what he is providing and all advanced stats show he hurts offense when he plays.

If you think Mo Bamba is failing because of Clifford, how do you explain Isaac thriving under same coach with basically identical skillset? Maybe what's between ears of those two that sets them apart ?

Mo Bamba will have 1 year to prove he belongs in nba and probably 1 additional year to prove he can play in nba for another team. But low effort with no basketball skills won't get him far.