Around the League: 2024-25 Season

[thelead]

also... another small ball team that can't hang with real bigs. Adams is just dominating the paint.

[Idiosyncratic]

also... another small ball team that can't hang with real bigs. Adams is just dominating the paint.

Yeah, some very effective two big lineups on a lot of these good teams. I will say most of them also have the personnel to go small as well, just depends on the matchups. Lakers and Warriors just really don't have centers at all at this point which really is never ideal so that skews things a bit.

But it does seem like with how physical these playoffs have been there is some real value of having a lineup with two capable bigs in your back pocket at least.

[RookieStar]

What could have been. Moe with Paolo and Franz during the 3rd quarters and early 4th... we would nolt have scoring droughts and with 3 6'10/6'11/7fters.. we dominate against small ballers

[SOUL]

What could have been. Moe with Paolo and Franz during the 3rd quarters and early 4th... we would nolt have scoring droughts and with 3 6'10/6'11/7fters.. we dominate against small ballers

Moe def would've helped but he's a pretty bad rebounder and defender in comparison to Adams

[GelbeWand09]

Fred (worse than Fultz) van Fleet would have been a great signing or trade target 2 years ago. Btw another example why waiting til the last minute or your young guys are ''ready'' to win is bad management. You add players when they are available because the NBA doesnt wait for your prefered timeline. If you think so, there is a big chance you try to add the missing parts but your missing player types are just not available anymore or you are left with much inferior version like Sexton & Simons. Cleveland doesnt thought Garland and Mobley are too young, we cant add Mitchell or Allen and we have to wait another 2 years. Houston doesnt thought that. San Antonio doesnt thought that...

[RookieStar]

What could have been. Moe with Paolo and Franz during the 3rd quarters and early 4th... we would nolt have scoring droughts and with 3 6'10/6'11/7fters.. we dominate against small ballers

Moe def would've helped but he's a pretty bad rebounder and defender in comparison to Adams

Dont think the defense was the problem. Besides, the Cs chucks 3s.. of they decide to drive it in... al the better.

What i meant was that Moes size would mean more offense for us cuz e isnhard to stop on that end

[Bergmaniac]

Absolute masterpiece of a game from VanVleet yesterday. Not just the hot shooting, but his playmaking was elite throughout, he played great D and he grabbed some huge boards too. And even in his bad shooting games his playmaking is so much better than what we have at his position. He is overpaid, but we sure could have used him in the playoffs.

I really thought Steph and Butler would have taken over the 4th quarter. Oh well…

They are old and it showed in this quarter, both looked like they had no legs while the Rockets were flying around the court.

[Skybox]

FVV was/is exactly what we need...does what needs to be done, manages the game without dominating. Can fade into the background and make others look good, but will emerge to hit a big 3 or even put up 25 when matchups, etc demand it. FLOOR GENERAL.

HOU paid him like a star for a short-term project and he's absolutely the perfect fit for them (or us).

Put FVV on ORL and I think we compare favorably with HOU...and HOU is goooood. ORL has more higher-end talent, but HOU is more well-assembled. They have complementary "specialists" that are young and old like Steven Adams and Tari Eason, who are elite at specific things and humbly accept their roles. They also are sitting on a ton of picks...they're really not that different from OKC or us, except that OKC started with a young MVP candidate.

removing FFV from the math and ordering the players...

Paolo
Franz
Sengun
Thompson
Suggs
Green
A handful of Rockets
(gap)
A handful of Magic players

[Bergmaniac]

The funniest thing for me was there were people here who were against signing FVV because "he is not a good defender". Sure, he is short, but he is very strong, very smart, moves his feet well on D, has quick hands and always compete on the defensive end. He has been a part of several elite defenses, the most defensive-minded coach in the league Ime Udoka loves his defence so much he usually keeps him on the court even when he can't make a shot to save his life and trusts him to guard Steph Curry for big stretches in the playoffs. Nick Nurse, another elite coach, also used him successfully against Curry in the finals.

[basketballRob]

The funniest thing for me was there were people here who were against signing FVV because "he is not a good defender". Sure, he is short, but he is very strong, very smart, moves his feet well on D, has quick hands and always compete on the defensive end. He has been a part of several elite defenses, the most defensive-minded coach in the league Ime Udoka loves his defence so much he usually keeps him on the court even when he can't make a shot to save his life and trusts him to guard Steph Curry for big stretches in the playoffs. Nick Nurse, another elite coach, also used him successfully against Curry in the finals.

A lot of people liked FVV because his analytics were always so good. Knightro was posting about him every day. Houston just had way more to give him.

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[Fortune Teller]

Fred (worse than Fultz) van Fleet would have been a great signing or trade target 2 years ago. Btw another example why waiting til the last minute or your young guys are ''ready'' to win is bad management. You add players when they are available because the NBA doesnt wait for your prefered timeline. If you think so, there is a big chance you try to add the missing parts but your missing player types are just not available anymore or you are left with much inferior version like Sexton & Simons. Cleveland doesnt thought Garland and Mobley are too young, we cant add Mitchell or Allen and we have to wait another 2 years. Houston doesnt thought that. San Antonio doesnt thought that...

100. The argument I hate the most on this board is "we're not ready to win yet". It's used to justify: 1) Jeff doing nothing, 2) Jeff re-signing below-average players like JI, WCJ and Cole, 3) Jeff signing KCP instead of a more ball-dominant player because that might stunt AB's development; 4) Jeff drafting two more projects in the 2023 lottery instead of trading the picks for a complementary piece that fills an actual need. Now the two biggest windows for improvement -- Summer '23 and Summer '24 -- have closed, and Jeff announces he's ready to win now with no cap space and mid-round draft picks.

The FVV signing for Houston reminds me of the Magic signing of Rashard Lewis. Everyone said we overpaid, but he was the missing piece that led the team to the Finals, just a perfect fit. So who is to say he was overpaid, or FVV is overpaid? You can only bargain-shop for so long.

[GelbeWand09]

The funniest thing for me was there were people here who were against signing FVV because "he is not a good defender". Sure, he is short, but he is very strong, very smart, moves his feet well on D, has quick hands and always compete on the defensive end. He has been a part of several elite defenses, the most defensive-minded coach in the league Ime Udoka loves his defence so much he usually keeps him on the court even when he can't make a shot to save his life and trusts him to guard Steph Curry for big stretches in the playoffs. Nick Nurse, another elite coach, also used him successfully against Curry in the finals.

A lot of people liked FVV because his analytics were always so good. Knightro was posting about him every day. Houston just had way more to give him.

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Naw, the discussion was already before his last deadline in Toronto. I've argued for him as example and someone told me several times Van Fleet is a bad defender (despite all the metrics and eye test saying the opposite) and Fultz is much better than him. We could have had him at that time probably for cheap, at 28 years old. Sure that was no guarantee he resigns but we had so much capspace for the next seasons, it would have been no problem to sign him anyway.

[Skybox]

Fred (worse than Fultz) van Fleet would have been a great signing or trade target 2 years ago. Btw another example why waiting til the last minute or your young guys are ''ready'' to win is bad management. You add players when they are available because the NBA doesnt wait for your prefered timeline. If you think so, there is a big chance you try to add the missing parts but your missing player types are just not available anymore or you are left with much inferior version like Sexton & Simons. Cleveland doesnt thought Garland and Mobley are too young, we cant add Mitchell or Allen and we have to wait another 2 years. Houston doesnt thought that. San Antonio doesnt thought that...

100. The argument I hate the most on this board is "we're not ready to win yet". It's used to justify: 1) Jeff doing nothing, 2) Jeff re-signing below-average players like JI, WCJ and Cole, 3) Jeff signing KCP instead of a more ball-dominant player because that might stunt AB's development; 4) Jeff drafting two more projects in the 2023 lottery instead of trading the picks for a complementary piece that fills an actual need. Now the two biggest windows for improvement -- Summer '23 and Summer '24 -- have closed, and Jeff announces he's ready to win now with no cap space and mid-round draft picks.

The FVV signing for Houston reminds me of the Magic signing of Rashard Lewis. Everyone said we overpaid, but he was the missing piece that led the team to the Finals, just a perfect fit. So who is to say he was overpaid, or FVV is overpaid? You can only bargain-shop for so long.

Plus, HOU (like we did) had the ability to briefly overpay in the window before all of their big rookie extensions hit. That window slammed shut for us now...OKC did the same with Hartenstein - they identified an important need and overpaid a guy on a short-term deal, before their young core matures and either takes IHart's job or relegates him to a lesser role and a lesser next deal...win-win. Weltman probably feels like he did something like that with Isaac (overpay him up front and then enjoy the benefits of a "cheap" $15m for a DPOY for years - not looking like it, but that may have been the idea, more so than Isaac's deal being tradable).

Regardless, even if Weltman knocks it out of the park this summer, that does not justify the last two years of inactivity and misplaced salaries...Of course, I'll be happy but I don't want to hear any BS validation or "I told you he had a plan all along".

[eyriq]

100. The argument I hate the most on this board is "we're not ready to win yet". It's used to justify: 1) Jeff doing nothing, 2) Jeff re-signing below-average players like JI, WCJ and Cole, 3) Jeff signing KCP instead of a more ball-dominant player because that might stunt AB's development; 4) Jeff drafting two more projects in the 2023 lottery instead of trading the picks for a complementary piece that fills an actual need. Now the two biggest windows for improvement -- Summer '23 and Summer '24 -- have closed, and Jeff announces he's ready to win now with no cap space and mid-round draft picks.

Go all-in too early and you’re locked into “pretty good, never great,” while cheap young contracts are lottery tickets that can pay off big later. Role guys like KCP boost Paolo, Franz, and AB without hogging shots or wrecking future cap space.

[basketballRob]

The funniest thing for me was there were people here who were against signing FVV because "he is not a good defender". Sure, he is short, but he is very strong, very smart, moves his feet well on D, has quick hands and always compete on the defensive end. He has been a part of several elite defenses, the most defensive-minded coach in the league Ime Udoka loves his defence so much he usually keeps him on the court even when he can't make a shot to save his life and trusts him to guard Steph Curry for big stretches in the playoffs. Nick Nurse, another elite coach, also used him successfully against Curry in the finals.

A lot of people liked FVV because his analytics were always so good. Knightro was posting about him every day. Houston just had way more to give him.

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Naw, the discussion was already before his last deadline in Toronto. I've argued for him as example and someone told me several times Van Fleet is a bad defender (despite all the metrics and eye test saying the opposite) and Fultz is much better than him. We could have had him at that time probably for cheap, at 28 years old. Sure that was no guarantee he resigns but we had so much capspace for the next seasons, it would have been no problem to sign him anyway.

I remember pushing hard for him when Toronto gave him around the mle. It was us and Phoenix who really needed a PG. That was before Toronto won the championship. That was around the time Phoenix traded Culver the 6th pick for the 11th pick Cam Johnson and Dario Saric.

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[cedric76]

100. The argument I hate the most on this board is "we're not ready to win yet". It's used to justify: 1) Jeff doing nothing, 2) Jeff re-signing below-average players like JI, WCJ and Cole, 3) Jeff signing KCP instead of a more ball-dominant player because that might stunt AB's development; 4) Jeff drafting two more projects in the 2023 lottery instead of trading the picks for a complementary piece that fills an actual need. Now the two biggest windows for improvement -- Summer '23 and Summer '24 -- have closed, and Jeff announces he's ready to win now with no cap space and mid-round draft picks.

Go all-in too early and you’re locked into “pretty good, never great,” while cheap young contracts are lottery tickets that can pay off big later. Role guys like KCP boost Paolo, Franz, and AB without hogging shots or wrecking future cap space.

Exactly, going all in when you 2 best players were under 23 is not smart.
People are not patient anymore

[Skybox]

100. The argument I hate the most on this board is "we're not ready to win yet". It's used to justify: 1) Jeff doing nothing, 2) Jeff re-signing below-average players like JI, WCJ and Cole, 3) Jeff signing KCP instead of a more ball-dominant player because that might stunt AB's development; 4) Jeff drafting two more projects in the 2023 lottery instead of trading the picks for a complementary piece that fills an actual need. Now the two biggest windows for improvement -- Summer '23 and Summer '24 -- have closed, and Jeff announces he's ready to win now with no cap space and mid-round draft picks.

Go all-in too early and you’re locked into “pretty good, never great,” while cheap young contracts are lottery tickets that can pay off big later. Role guys like KCP boost Paolo, Franz, and AB without hogging shots or wrecking future cap space.

Exactly, going all in when you 2 best players were under 23 is not smart.
People are not patient anymore

There are pitfalls either way...if you don't have faith in your GM to invest in keepers - then you're right to take it slow and cowardly.

In our case, we could have been "locked in" to a Big 4 coming into this season, before the extensions hit...but now, we're "locked out" of making any significant moves because so much of our cap is going to 3 guys and the secondary guys are largely overpaid negative values...not impossible to overcome, but last year was the right time...IF you don't feel that Weltman had enough evidence that Paolo, Franz, and Suggs were worthy of building around after last season - then he's worthless. We didn't get any new info this season about any of them - other than Suggs' knee has a long-term concern. There was NO need to continue the patient analysis into this season...we already knew who they were and could reasonably project their continued growth and the obvious needs to surround them with more complementary players.

A GM that has to see growth before he makes a decision is not a serious professional...the good ones have the ability to confidently project development and adjust course decisively to what WILL happen, not try to do it after it happens.

*Also, the idea that making any kind of deal for supporting role players is "going all in" is just

[pepe1991]

In moment max exstensions active you are "all in" weather you can grasp reality of it or not.

[Skybox]

In moment max exstensions active you are "all in" weather you can grasp reality of it or not.

Yep...those three were a stone-cold lock and as soon as the decisions on those extensions were made, aggressive action to build around them without delay is the sensible move.

Again, we didn't get ANY new information on who Paolo, Franz, and Suggs will be this year. Beyond injuries, Paolo & Franz just continued their ascendance and also continued their tendencies to work alone, because they lacked any playmaking help.

Good rally at the end of the year, respectable showing vs BOS, decent development from some of the players, heroic effort to overcome terrible injury situation...but a total fail for the GM to sit and watch a year go by. Same exact weaknesses as this time last year...except now we have a less potent $22m Suggs understudy with two more guaranteed years and an ill-advised premature extension given to WCJ that turned him from "underpaid underestimated secret gem" into "about to be overpaid undersized unreliable negative value". Those aren't reflections on the players, but on the deals that make them less desirable.

Patience is a BS copout...you have only a few years with good players on rookie deals - waste them at your own peril. Things get a lot tougher.

[CZ Eddie]

Jabari Smith's pro career so far, considering he was the overwhelming favorite to be the #1 overall pick by the Orlando Magic.
When does he break out as a superstar?
Or even a star?